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MAUI and the Fires

rmarion

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I read somewhere the Sheriff in charge over there is the same Sheriff that was in charge of Vegas during the Route 66 shooting. So either total incompetence or maybe all part of the grand plan. I don't trust anything the government says.
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Taboma

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I've been seeing videos of a DEW starting the fire. The video is also out there of where the fire was in a perfect circle. Curious if our government or another government is behind this.
Would that be Mountain Dew, or morning dew ?? But a prefect circle is always indicative of a Alien ship having landed. :rolleyes:

If that isn't something to call home about, having a fire burn in a perfect circle when being driven by gale force winds, now there's something for the " Ripley's Believe it or Not Files" o_O
 

Joker

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Would that be Mountain Dew, or morning dew ?? But a prefect circle is always indicative of a Alien ship having landed. :rolleyes:

If that isn't something to call home about, having a fire burn in a perfect circle when being driven by gale force winds, now there's something for the " Ripley's Believe it or Not Files" o_O

It's a Directed Energy Weapon.
 

Ace in the Hole

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It's a Directed Energy Weapon.
Please don’t. It wasn’t and this doesn’t help anyone. See the link I posted above to Maui FD…that does. People we know lost it all. 17 MFD lost their homes. Kapuna were seemingly abandoned in elder housing, people burned alive trying to flee.

I know for most there is a few degrees of separation but for at least a handful of us this impacts our families, our friends etc. I get the anger…hell my anger is visible in this thread to the cause of this..and the state turning a blind eye. Focus on helping those or simply don’t. But please don’t spread this crap.
 

Ducksquasher

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Someone, or hate to say government, needs to organize the rebuild on that town or it’s going to sit haphazard for decades. People will take their insurance checks and leave. If they want a Lahaina again they will need some building codes, a master plan and huge incentives for people to get moving or sell the dirt to someone that will rebuild.

I remember after Iniki in 1992 hotels in Poipu sat for over a decade rotting. We were there last October and the Coco palms is still rotting on side of the highway
I saw that in June...trees growing up through the buildings...or what is left of them?
 

Joker

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Please don’t. It wasn’t and this doesn’t help anyone. See the link I posted above to Maui FD…that does. People we know lost it all. 17 MFD lost their homes. Kapuna were seemingly abandoned in elder housing, people burned alive trying to flee.

I know for most there is a few degrees of separation but for at least a handful of us this impacts our families, our friends etc. I get the anger…hell my anger is visible in this thread to the cause of this..and the state turning a blind eye. Focus on helping those or simply don’t. But please don’t spread this crap.
How in the hell could this have happened to so many innocent people? No warning, no nothing.
 

Ace in the Hole

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How in the hell could this have happened to so many innocent people? No warning, no nothing.
Aged infrastructure, rotten powerpoles (common in rural HI), a dry season, and 80mph winds that’s how. It wasn’t some “weapon.” The state knew it was a big risk and the power lines fell ending any warning system and this sealing the fate of too many…greed has been the case soo often back home. Class action lawsuits have already been filed vs heco…
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Aged infrastructure, rotten powerpoles (common in rural HI), a dry season, and 80mph winds that’s how. It wasn’t some “weapon.” The state knew it was a big risk and the power lines fell ending any warning system and this sealing the fate of too many…greed has been the case soo often back home. Class action lawsuits have already been filed vs heco…

Well you know exactly how those will turn out. Look at CA.

And the people of HI will wonder why their power bills are triple.
 

Joker

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Aged infrastructure, rotten powerpoles (common in rural HI), a dry season, and 80mph winds that’s how. It wasn’t some “weapon.” The state knew it was a big risk and the power lines fell ending any warning system and this sealing the fate of too many…greed has been the case soo often back home. Class action lawsuits have already been filed vs heco…
I’ve only been once, but was there only one way for people to get out of town? I have no idea what happened but this sure is weird and seeing all the cars on the road one can only assume these cars were trying to leave but got jammed up
 

LargeOrangeFont

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I’ve only been once, but was there only one way for people to get out of town? I have no idea what happened but this sure is weird and seeing all the cars on the road one can only assume these cars were trying to leave but got jammed up

When a fire is aggressively burning down a mountain towards the ocean and is fed by winds blowing 40-80 MPH. Pushing the fire down the mountain, and there is one main road, where would you expect people to go?

They have 3 options.. burn, jump in the ocean, or maybe get lucky in a structure that was spared.
 

Joker

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When a fire is aggressively burning down a mountain towards the ocean and is fed by winds blowing 40-80 MPH. Pushing the fire down the mountain, and there is one main road, where would you expect people to go?

They have 3 options.. burn, jump in the ocean, or maybe get lucky in a structure that was spared.
I don’t know the area hence the questions. How is one to know there’s one road? I’m trying to understand this.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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I don’t know the area hence the questions. How is one to know there’s one road? I’m trying to understand this.

Your curiosity is warranted, but just dismissing the whole thing as a weaponized attack from a government or terrorist is callous.

See below. That is the general area where the fire was. That area goes down hill to the water. Think 60 mph winds blowing flames across roads. Lots of brush around the town and old wood buildings.

A wind driven fire will move fast and people are going to get stuck and perish.




4BFA03DE-38D4-4E79-B0AE-FB4E16D6D572.png
 

Joker

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Your curiosity is warranted, but just dismissing the whole thing as a weaponized attack from a government or terrorist is callous.

See below. That is the general area where the fire was. That area goes down hill to the water. Think 60 mph winds blowing flames across roads. Lots of brush around the town and old wood buildings.

A wind driven fire will move fast and people are going to get stuck and perish.




View attachment 1264900
I can see the road now, so that’s enough for me to see in a sense what happened. I still don’t understand how it got so bad so fast. Either the utility company or the government fucked up. Possibly both
 

LargeOrangeFont

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I can see the road now, so that’s enough for me to see in a sense what happened. I still don’t understand how it got so bad so fast. Either the utility company or the government fucked up. Possibly both

The same thing happens in CA. Can we name more than 2 or 3 fires of the couple dozen in recent years that were not caused by vagrants, stupid people or electrical equipment?

If you don’t maintain brush around civilization, and don’t maintain the electrical infrastructure properly, and there is a problem in a windstorm. It goes sideways very fast..
 

Gelcoater

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I can see the road now, so that’s enough for me to see in a sense what happened. I still don’t understand how it got so bad so fast. Either the utility company or the government fucked up. Possibly both
The thing that gets me is unlike Paradise.
Hawaii has an audible alarm system to warn of Hurricane or sunami events.

Was listening to NPR on the way to work today, at least 3 locals interviewed said there was no warning at all.
Why didn’t they crank up the sirens?
 

Bobby V

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The thing that gets me is unlike Paradise.
Hawaii has an audible alarm system to warn of Hurricane or sunami events.

Was listening to NPR on the way to work today, at least 3 locals interviewed said there was no warning at all.
Why didn’t they crank up the sirens?
See post #260
 

Taboma

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Joe steps up

View attachment 1265090

And $200,000,000 for Zelinsky.
That similar amount was made available to us in '07 IMMEDIATELY following the loss of our home and EVERYTHING ---- the rational being, it provides "Walking money" as in many cases you may have not gotten out with any money or even a purse or wallet.

So please knock off the unnecessary political bullshit RDP has become polluted with, at least in this thread.
 

4Waters

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That similar amount was made available to us in '07 IMMEDIATELY following the loss of our home and EVERYTHING ---- the rational being, it provides "Walking money" as in many cases you may have not gotten out with any money or even a purse or wallet.

So please knock off the unnecessary political bullshit RDP has become polluted with, at least in this thread.
That's not enough money, I get what you are saying but 700 got you a lot further in 2007. In 2007 you could have gone down to hotel circle and stayed for almost a month, today it would be 4-5 days
 

Taboma

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That's not enough money, I get what you are saying but 700 got you a lot further in 2007. In 2007 you could have gone down to hotel circle and stayed for almost a month, today it would be 4-5 days
I have no idea what other hotel, housing or other provisions or vouchers have been instituted on various levels. Do you ?

I don't recall the exact amount we were provided as immediate walking money in 07', I'm just stating the purpose and FEMA made it available as soon as they were able to establish an immediate area base of operations.
Other financial aid was made available but it wasn't as immediate nor did we require it. We, unlike apparently so many, didn't expect any hand-outs at all, we felt this was OUR burden, our responsibility to endure and recover, not yours and the other peoples of this nation.

So yes, we were most thankful and surprised when the gov't did step up and how rapidly they did so. We were also not expecting all the grateful help in the way of clothing and other items provided by our friends and complete strangers, but we were very thankful.
Hell, even my X-wife showed up with a bag of clothes for my wife, but didn't miss the opportunity to leave a note that she was hoping they weren't to SMALL for her --- oh yeah, that went over LARGE :oops:😬
 

stephenkatsea

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I've seen mention of the warning system was not activated due to the concern of potential panic by the large amount of tourists currently in the area. WTF?! This is the same state, not long ago, which saw it fit to sound the warning sirens announcing an incoming intercontinental ballistic missile attack . . . .

Yesterday Tulsi Gabbard gave an excellent report from a devastated region away from Lahaina. This was where the locals once lived. Their needs are unimaginable. Starting with something as simple as current, accurate information. As we've been hearing, the support and aide they are receiving is coming from within their community. They are helping each other, while the politicians tap dance and duck.
 

Taboma

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I've seen mention of the warning system was not activated due to the concern of potential panic by the large amount of tourists currently in the area. WTF?! This is the same state, not long ago, which saw it fit to sound the warning sirens announcing an incoming intercontinental ballistic missile attack . . . .

Yesterday Tulsi Gabbard gave an excellent report from a devastated region away from Lahaina. This was where the locals once lived. Their needs are unimaginable. Starting with something as simple as current, accurate information. As we've been hearing, the support and aide they are receiving is coming from within their community. They are helping each other, while the politicians tap dance and duck.
Maybe they had power available during the missile attack, or when they're warning of a tsunami (Which is why they were installed I believe)? According to our RDP member on the scene, power loss due to poles being downed was prior to any fire threats.

It's unfortunate the political grand standing that results following these horrific events. Like watching the televised evening press briefing during any of CA's fires, all it is all these officials patting each other on the ass. Then later accusing each other of dereliction of duty , when the blame game starts.

I thought it cool as hell when the President of our home owner's insurance company personally flew to San Diego to meet with my wife and I at our burned down home. I was frigging impressed, and of course didn't miss a photo op of handing us a "Get Started" check to get us on the road to recovery. Later I saw the pictures on their website, showing their compassion for their company's " Fire Victims" --- but you know, there was no mention of us later when they f*cking canceled our policy following our rebuild. But damn, they sure looked good and that's all that counts.

You know who got on the evening news and yelled and screamed for the world to hear about the mean ole insurance companies weren't compensating them enough ??? ---- ironically, the same couples who before the fire had boasted at a neighborhood gathering how LITTLE they were paying for their home insurance by intentionally convincing the Ins. company that they'd valued the house's structural value way to high.
But the public sucked it up, because reality be damned, it's all about who gets the media attention and wins the "Blame Game".
 

ahavasu

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Let's put this back into reality. 99 dead, 100s unaccounted for, thousands of jobs lost, 1000s lost everything........Stop with all of this political conspiracy theory bullshit and peer out from your tin foil hats for a second to see the true catastrophe that is taking place. It's easy to lose perspective since to most of us Maui is a vacation destination, but these are real people, this is a state in our union, and these are Americans who are really suffering. Take a deep breath and think before you write stupid shit.
 

stephenkatsea

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Maybe they had power available during the missile attack, or when they're warning of a tsunami (Which is why they were installed I believe)? According to our RDP member on the scene, power loss due to poles being downed was prior to any fire threats.

It's unfortunate the political grand standing that results following these horrific events. Like watching the televised evening press briefing during any of CA's fires, all it is all these officials patting each other on the ass. Then later accusing each other of dereliction of duty , when the blame game starts.

I thought it cool as hell when the President of our home owner's insurance company personally flew to San Diego to meet with my wife and I at our burned down home. I was frigging impressed, and of course didn't miss a photo op of handing us a "Get Started" check to get us on the road to recovery. Later I saw the pictures on their website, showing their compassion for their company's " Fire Victims" --- but you know, there was no mention of us later when they f*cking canceled our policy following our rebuild. But damn, they sure looked good and that's all that counts.

You know who got on the evening news and yelled and screamed for the world to hear about the mean ole insurance companies weren't compensating them enough ??? ---- ironically, the same couples who before the fire had boasted at a neighborhood gathering how LITTLE they were paying for their home insurance by intentionally convincing the Ins. company that they'd valued the house's structural value way to high.
But the public sucked it up, because reality be damned, it's all about who gets the media attention and wins the "Blame Game".
Predicted local winds, capable of blowing down area utility poles, seem worthy of warning, prior to their arrival and the likely disruption of power. Curious if area weather forecasts had made any mention of these winds.
 

Taboma

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Predicted local winds, capable of blowing down area utility poles, seem worthy of warning, prior to their arrival and the likely disruption of power. Curious if area weather forecasts had made any mention of these winds.
Don't know, not sure it would have ultimately made any difference. People wouldn't have fled Lahaina regardless. They still were out an about clogging up the roads even after being fully aware of high winds.

The fire caught everybody by surprise because in that grass it moved so swiftly and I imagine it was like the fire that got us. It wasn't one continuous burn, the embers allowed it to hop-scotch in giant leaps and bounds and traveled 35 miles in one night, and was at our door step by 5AM catching an entire vast area with our jammys on ---- despite us knowing the night before that there were high winds blowing and predicted for the following day.

The highest wind gusts I could find for Lahaina recorded for that day were 40-45 mph, although like around here, you can have 40 in one place and 70 a few miles away. Obviously the wind gusts that took the poles down was at that time substantial. We hear weather reports of possible 70+ MPH winds, but those gusts are up on a few mountain peaks, but the weather folks sure do love reporting them as if we're all going to feel that same wrath.
 

4Waters

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Predicted local winds, capable of blowing down area utility poles, seem worthy of warning, prior to their arrival and the likely disruption of power. Curious if area weather forecasts had made any mention of these winds.
What's funny is Maria Qubon on Fox Los Angeles (Hawaii native) talked the day before about the coming winds and possible gusts to 80mph and how dangerous they could be because the hurricane is to far away to produce rain for the area. The difference is she recognizes the dangerous conditions due to living in SoCal, us mainlanders see that destruction every couple years, Hawaiians don't.
 

77charger

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What's funny is Maria Qubon on Fox Los Angeles (Hawaii native) talked the day before about the coming winds and possible gusts to 80mph and how dangerous they could be because the hurricane is to far away to produce rain for the area. The difference is she recognizes the dangerous conditions due to living in SoCal, us mainlanders see that destruction every couple years, Hawaiians don't.
She’s really smart with weather and also was raised in Hawaii too.
 

Taboma

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What's funny is Maria Qubon on Fox Los Angeles (Hawaii native) talked the day before about the coming winds and possible gusts to 80mph and how dangerous they could be because the hurricane is to far away to produce rain for the area. The difference is she recognizes the dangerous conditions due to living in SoCal, us mainlanders see that destruction every couple years, Hawaiians don't.
And when we get those "Red Flag" Santa Ana wind warnings, what do you do different ? I might secure the patio chairs, or tuck a few potted plants into a cubby hole to protect them. I might suddenly remember there's a few items I have updated on our running photographic home inventory --- do you have one ?
We might double check our "Go Bag" for essentials, we might remind ourselves of those critical couple of files to grab.
I might rake up a few leaves, but in general it's not a life altering event.
Now if I'd planned to take our old sportsfisher to Avalon, well I'd probably cancel, just as I would if I were planning on towing a trailer over any or our passes.
For the vast majority of So Cal folks, the announcement of a big wind event is just another fall Tuesday.
 

4Waters

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And when we get those "Red Flag" Santa Ana wind warnings, what do you do different ? I might secure the patio chairs, or tuck a few potted plants into a cubby hole to protect them. I might suddenly remember there's a few items I have updated on our running photographic home inventory --- do you have one ?
We might double check our "Go Bag" for essentials, we might remind ourselves of those critical couple of files to grab.
I might rake up a few leaves, but in general it's not a life altering event.
Now if I'd planned to take our old sportsfisher to Avalon, well I'd probably cancel, just as I would if I were planning on towing a trailer over any or our passes.
For the vast majority of So Cal folks, the announcement of a big wind event is just another fall Tuesday.
I'm in the middle of the valley so I'm not in too much danger but if our hills are on fire then I usually blow out the rain gutters
 

just_floatin

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I'm in the middle of the valley so I'm not in too much danger but if our hills are on fire then I usually blow out the rain gutters
Stay safe and do your due diligence brother. Fire combined with wind, like our summer monsoons can become dangerous fast.

Having said that, I do not own on Lake Havasu’s island with one road in and out. But if I did, I would be reviewing my boat and home fire insurance coverage along with my evacuation plan off the island should it become engulfed. But that’s just me.
 

boatpi

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Having been to Lahaini/Maui well over 50 times, I do agree it would be neary impossible for all to flee in time. My eariler point is the many qualified stidies detailing the fire dangers, and the need for undergroud power lines, etc., we 'largely ignored". All on politicians who failed to take action. If they had truly done their job over the years, the fire would likely have never reached the city.
 

Taboma

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Having been to Lahaini/Maui well over 50 times, I do agree it would be neary impossible for all to flee in time. My eariler point is the many qualified stidies detailing the fire dangers, and the need for undergroud power lines, etc., we 'largely ignored". All on politicians who failed to take action. If they had truly done their job over the years, the fire would likely have never reached the city.
OK, so let's say this "Bury the electrical utilities" were put on a ballot in order to what ---- You proposing to bury them all, or just certain voltages ? Of course what about the phone, DSL and cable TV sharing those poles ?
A. Float a bond to be paid from personal property taxes B. Access every home or business owner, either one time or amortized C. Place the burden on the utility, in which case the costs get passed on to the rate payers. D. Make all Americans pay for Maui's UG electrical --- pick one, now imagine items A thru C getting passed.
Of course what about the phone, DSL and cable TV sharing those poles ?

I'm guess since Lahaina has been there since established in 1795, I seriously doubt there was really any overall concern that fire was their # 1 nemesis, over more popular options like a Hurricane or Tsunami.
 

boatpi

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Well to power lines, you have to look at California that has a program since the 1970’s to burry lines. Hawaii could have appplied for grants based on the studies, and would have likely received them. All government stuff, I was involved in some of it, it is a fair system for areas that have unique issues. Like I noted, years of studies detailing the fire risk issues.
 

Heylam

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What about the power lines all over Havasu? Are they a major threat? If so, how would you deal with them and fund it?
 

2Driver

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It doesn’t have to be proven it was the electric company’s fault, the lawyers just need to persuade a jury that it was.

The company that provides power to the islands will most likely be driven into bankruptcy if found liable reports say. Lawyers will walk away rich and it will just be another hardship on islanders

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