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MAUI and the Fires

boatpi

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It was much more than power lines, Fire needs fuel, the issue with evasive species or wild grass etc. was addressed in prior studies, and nothing was done to mitigate it.
 

4Waters

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Stay safe and do your due diligence brother. Fire combined with wind, like our summer monsoons can become dangerous fast.

Having said that, I do not own on Lake Havasu’s island with one road in and out. But if I did, I would be reviewing my boat and home fire insurance coverage along with my evacuation plan off the island should it become engulfed. But that’s just me.
I do have lots of directions to run which is a good thing but I'm the guy that gets to a hotel, drop everything off in the room and then go find the stairway in both directions. If the stairway is in the middle of the hallway I count how many doors I have to pass before I'm at the stairway as I might be crawling on my knees under the smoke.
 

Taboma

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Well to power lines, you have to look at California that has a program since the 1970’s to burry lines. Hawaii could have appplied for grants based on the studies, and would have likely received them. All government stuff, I was involved in some of it, it is a fair system for areas that have unique issues. Like I noted, years of studies detailing the fire risk issues.
And yet the vast majority in fire prone, rural areas are not yet buried, else PG&E, Edison and SDG&E wouldn't be implementing so many Public Safety Power Shutdowns every time there's a Red Flag wind event.
In our rural San Diego area they're not burying any existing lines, they're removing aging wooden poles as they age-out and replacing them with new steel poles.

The actual CPUC Undergrounding Programs isn't as simple as asking the American Taxpayers to pay for burying some other states electrical utilities.

 

2Driver

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When you think of this town of 13,000 pleading for help and the average football stadium holds 60,000+ it comes in perspective that it shouldn’t be that hard to make things right.

LOL but thank Biden for the $700 check. 🤡
 
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Joker

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Ok so from what I get from this is the government we are supposed to trust and not accuse of wrongdoing will not be held liable for the deaths of possibly 1k human lives.
It was much more than power lines, Fire needs fuel, the issue with evasive species or wild grass etc. was addressed in prior studies, and nothing was done to mitigate it.
Are you speaking of them building over the wetlands?
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Ok so from what I get from this is the government we are supposed to trust and not accuse of wrongdoing will not be held liable for the deaths of possibly 1k human lives.

Are you speaking of them building over the wetlands?

No he’s not. They aren’t allowed to clean up fuel and brush because of the greens, so when it catches fire it burns up the town.
 

just_floatin

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When you think of this town of 13,000 pleading for help and the average football stadium holds 60,000+ it comes in perspective that it shouldn’t be that hard to make things right.

LOL but thank Biden for the $700 check. 🤡
Time to pay your property taxes. One of hundreds of bureaucratic red tape hurdles facing property owners who lost everything wishing to rebuild their lives. SMH
7ED47508-D845-4551-A585-E94AF0480746.jpeg
 

Taboma

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Time to pay your property taxes. One of hundreds of bureaucratic red tape hurdles facing property owners who lost everything wishing to rebuild their lives. SMH
View attachment 1265462
At least after the 07' fire we only paid property tax on the land value only. Two years later and about 50% complete with construction, it was raised back up proportional to the rebuild %. After the rebuild, taxes resumed on the original value + any additional square footage.

What never stopped or changed were the monthly loan payments, the bank wanted theirs regardless. Also our loan company got to control that portion of the insurance recovery $$ equal to the loan balance. According to neighbors, other loan companies controlled all the structural insurance proceeds, disbursing it on monthly draws depending on agreed upon re-construction progress.

Obviously my only experience with this was in San Diego county, I have no idea how Maui County is going to handle this mess.

I am however most confident that any amount of reality will not deter or still the proud and many RDP Torch and Pitchfork Club.
 

2Driver

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At least after the 07' fire we only paid property tax on the land value only. Two years later and about 50% complete with construction, it was raised back up proportional to the rebuild %. After the rebuild, taxes resumed on the original value + any additional square footage.

What never stopped or changed were the monthly loan payments, the bank wanted theirs regardless. Also our loan company got to control that portion of the insurance recovery $$ equal to the loan balance. According to neighbors, other loan companies controlled all the structural insurance proceeds, disbursing it on monthly draws depending on agreed upon re-construction progress.

Obviously my only experience with this was in San Diego county, I have no idea how Maui County is going to handle this mess.

I am however most confident that any amount of reality will not deter or still the proud and many RDP Torch and Pitchfork Club.

Did you have the option to cash out and not rebuild or rebuild at your pace vs insurance paying as you rebuild?
I can never get an answer to that question when I ask an insurance company.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Did you have the option to cash out and not rebuild or rebuild at your pace vs insurance paying as you rebuild?
I can never get an answer to that question when I ask an insurance company.
You never will.

That was my SHTF plan if there was an ever an Earthquake in CA that red tagged or leveled my house.
 

stephenkatsea

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Back in 1982. How things were approached by the Reagan administration. Kahului, Maui has a depth of 35-40 feet. That’s the same as Nawiliwilli, Kauai, 1982.

 
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Bobby V

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Back in 1982. How things were approached by the Reagan administration. Kahului, Maui has a depth of 35-40 feet. That’s the same as Nawiliwilli, Kauai, 1982.

Ha I was in Maui during Hurricane Iwa In 1982. Got stuck in an elevator when the power went out. Went to the bar and had to drink warm beer. 😆 Bought a shirt that said “I Survived Hurricane Iwa” before we left.
 

Taboma

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Did you have the option to cash out and not rebuild or rebuild at your pace vs insurance paying as you rebuild?
I can never get an answer to that question when I ask an insurance company.
That's a great question.
YES, however as you're probably aware (But I know I wasn't previously), in addition to the policy's stated values for Structural, which can include a meager amount for landscaping, there's also percentage amounts available for various building code, energy code and or fire code upgrades.
These amounts can total up to a considerable sum depending on the age of the home.
We were instructed that should we opt to not rebuild, but to purchase another home, we would be limited to the stated amount only, in other words, replacement value, not rebuild value.
I hope I'm making that clear with my explanation.

In our case, we used the funds allotted by our policy for temporary residency, to purchase a new 5th wheel trailer and set it up in our driveway.
We built an adjacent outbuilding in our grove, which served as my contracting office and my wife's laundry room.
Built a cool deck and bbq area, and this was our life for the next three years.

Two of those were spent looking at our options, because not long after the fire (Oct '07) the economy got wonkers and some pretty nice foreclosures were popping up.

In the interim I designed a new house and submitted it to my builder for pricing. This price estimate reflected all those various required upgrades as separate line items.

Because he was also the builder who'd built the previous home in '74, we had to submit that price, not the cost of our new design, as a basis for receiving either the full or percentage of the Policy's Stated Structural amount, then add the appropriate amount for all the required upgrades to the rebuild of the previous house, NOT the new house.
In short, the insurance company isn't interest in what you are building, it's what it would cost to rebuild what you had and what they'd insured, + any required upgrades to use to calculate those "Extra" funds.

Armed with all that information, and our personal attachment to the area, we finally made the decision to rebuild and not purchase elsewhere. This also allowed us to retain the same property tax amount with the only addition being the extra sq footage we'd added.
This also allowed me to grandfather (Based on a 20 year old variance) my garage and shop sq footage that they initially tried to limit in plan check.

In our case, waiting for others in the neighborhood to dive right back into rebuilding also gave us the opportunity to observe what THEY were doing and how it might possibly impact us.
As an example, the owners of the home behind us decided to go with a two story instead of the previous small single story. This caused me to stop our structural engineer and essentially redesign our entire home.
I wasn't happy about this at the time, but in retrospect, the redesign ended up being far better --- I just needed the motivation to think outside the box. 😁
It also motivated me to build an additional kinda "F*ck you neighbor" loft office & covered deck (So now officially 2 stories + walkout basement) (Very cool indeed) that kinda accidentally wiped out his view of the city lights and 4th of July fireworks displays. Oopsie 🤭

I'm going to add this although I have no doubt you're fully on top of it ----- Maintain a precise inventory of ALL your Personal Property and maintain it up to date. I do it by taking pictures of EVERTHING --- drawers open, cabinets open, tool box drawers open etc etc etc.

Because if you want that substantial monies for these items, you need to list everything right down to your toothbrushes. Because you're be replacing all if it later and it's amazing how all those little things add up. What the extensive photo record I'd kept did for us is, remind us of items we'd more than likely overlooked.
 

Taboma

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You never will.

That was my SHTF plan if there was an ever an Earthquake in CA that red tagged or leveled my house.
In truth, they can't tell you the exact amounts available because of those additional percentages available for required upgrades.
However, if you read well into your contract, you should find as we did, some of these potential allowances are extremely substantial.

But, only available if you actually rebuild -- otherwise if your policy is like ours, they will pay you for what it would cost to rebuild the house that burned and your personal property loss amounts, less any required upgrades since you're not actually rebuilding, so the max would be essentially the stated policy amount.
 

stephenkatsea

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Ha I was in Maui during Hurricane Iwa In 1982. Got stuck in an elevator when the power went out. Went to the bar and had to drink warm beer. 😆 Bought a shirt that said “I Survived Hurricane Iwa” before we left.
Hurricane Iwa was unusual. It happened in late November. Very late for a hurricane. Lots of destruction throughout the islands, particularly on Kauai. But, there was only 1 death. A navy seaman on a ship departing Pearl broke his neck and died when they were hit by a large wave.
 

rivermobster

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Please don’t. It wasn’t and this doesn’t help anyone. See the link I posted above to Maui FD…that does. People we know lost it all. 17 MFD lost their homes. Kapuna were seemingly abandoned in elder housing, people burned alive trying to flee.

I know for most there is a few degrees of separation but for at least a handful of us this impacts our families, our friends etc. I get the anger…hell my anger is visible in this thread to the cause of this..and the state turning a blind eye. Focus on helping those or simply don’t. But please don’t spread this crap.

Do you know where we can send a few bucks? 🤷‍♂️
 

2Driver

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In truth, they can't tell you the exact amounts available because of those additional percentages available for required upgrades.
However, if you read well into your contract, you should find as we did, some of these potential allowances are extremely substantial.

But, only available if you actually rebuild -- otherwise if your policy is like ours, they will pay you for what it would cost to rebuild the house that burned and your personal property loss amounts, less any required upgrades since you're not actually rebuilding, so the max would be essentially the stated policy amount.

Thanks, that’s the closest I’ve come to an answer about that.

Emotions are high right now but, Id sell out for a reasonable offer and exit to another part of the island.
I figure if you are 30-40 years old and want to rebuild, you’ll still be homeless for quite awhile and then spend the next 2 decades pissing vinegar in community meetings about what’s wrong and how things are not going.

Life too short for that.
 

500bbc

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Did you have the option to cash out and not rebuild or rebuild at your pace vs insurance paying as you rebuild?
I can never get an answer to that question when I ask an insurance company.
Not if there's a note.
People were doing just that after Northridge quake if they were upside down or house was total loss.
Mortage holders demanded the Ins checks go to them as they were principals.
They were sending bank inspecters out before issuing progress payments.
 

2Driver

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Not if there's a note.
People were doing just that after Northridge quake if they were upside down or house was total loss.
Mortage holders demanded the Ins checks go to them as they were principals.
They were sending bank inspecters out before issuing progress payments.

True…its how I do my private money loans. I’m the loss payee on the policy.

That’s the other thing that could delay progress in Lahaina as people may walk on their home and biz loans, so a lot of Lahaina could end up being owned by banks.
 

regor

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Interesting



Oh yea, he's not a woke lil Enviro-nazi with power...................... 😆




The governor said conflicts over water are being reshaped in an age of climate change and wildfires. Now the conflict includes opponents who do not want water to be used to fight fires, the governor said.

“One thing that people need to understand especially those from far away is that there’s been a great deal of water conflict on Maui for many years,” Green said. “It’s important that we’re honest about this. People have been fighting against the release of water to fight fires. I’ll leave that to you to explore.”


“We have a difficult time on Maui and other rural areas getting enough water for houses, for our people, for any response,” Green added. “But it’s important we start being honest. There are currently people still fighting in our state giving us water access to fight and prepare for fires even as more storms arise.”


Green said the state is in the midst of a “comprehensive review” by Attorney General Anne Lopez of decisions made before and during the firefighting efforts.


“There will be multiple reviews at every level,” he said.


In 2022, two Maui senators, Gil Keith-Agaran and Lynne DeCoite, introduced a measure to push DLNR to allow fresh water to be used to fight fires and pointed to West Maui as being particularly vulnerable.
 

PlanB

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I noticed that no military is present, thinking on how so much of the Pacific Fleet is in Honolulu. Why not? Endless food and supplies on these ships.
Army from Schofield Barracks is involved as of this morning according to local news.
 

throttle

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Anyone seen a palm tree burn, add wind... and the embers fly in the sky leaping from rooftop to rooftop. Should be nuff said right there. There is NO getting ahead of that freight train. The Paradise Fire, Oakland Hills, Laguna Beach all come to mind. Dozens more.

Its horrible that lives were lost and tragically many lost everything they had. The population of urban campers is also extremely high and I cant help think that this too added quickly to the death tolls as health and mobility issues are common and they could not escape even just from the smoke. Yes Maui will rebuilt (prolly take 5-10 years to recover), it will lack the history and the locals that survived will have probably moved on (I would guess, it would be too much to return).

Like many of you, my wife and I feel very fortunate to visit Hawaii 2-3 times each year. Donate someplace. You don't have to do much, but do something, something is better than nothing. Mahalo
 

Ace in the Hole

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Do you know where we can send a few bucks? 🤷‍♂️
I posted it in another reply

https://account.venmo.com/u/mauifirestore?fbclid=PAAaaQeT5iXwCubC3y9uCHts9XNKFpAG7swshDU8oN6b9xV0HXCNFRo5l3kaw_aem_AdGIS—xb6Ri_fHMJOqw9CNIPZHrPLQrd5n20mF1kw5lnWqvfJW2eWljbKaxnP_-qc4


Venmo: @mauifirestore

Mark it as a donation for the fires. It’s ran by Maui fire fighters.
 

schweeng

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So.... we were there the week this happened. Fuck!

At my restaurant last night had a guy at the bar eating...... starring at his phone then at me then at his phone... I went to him thinking he needed more sauce... napkins....etc. Something.

His wife just had texted him that their dear friend and his family had all died in the Lahaina fire.... it's getting hard to deal with this... damn!!!
 

Morehart

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This is truly sad. I have some crazy stories about what is happening there. So many opinions, distrust, and rightful anger. I'm just sad. These are all the feelings you have in a time of loss. The land grab thing is disgusting. I don't doubt it as there is vultures everywhere in our lives. The lack of support is forcing local Hawaiian Americans out of their land and culture
I can't even imagine losing my home. It's been very close a couple of times. I pray for everyone effected nightly.
 

boatpi

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The emergency services, Director, the dope, who thought it was a bad idea to sound The sirens used for hurricanes, thinking people would run up to the mountain into a live fire,……..just resigned.
 

rmarion

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my honey just donated $500 to Maui...

I'll find out where she sent these funds to..

she mentioned some local business in Lahina for 25 years .... I hope they use it in good faith....

he has set up a relief account has generated 1mil currently....


its questionable.... I just hope they're HONEST..
 

rmarion

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my honey read good stuff about him...

GoFundMe.com/F/Help-the-people-of-maui. WayneDyerFamilyFoundation.
 

Ace in the Hole

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The emergency services, Director, the dope, who thought it was a bad idea to sound The sirens used for hurricanes, thinking people would run up to the mountain into a live fire,……..just resigned.
He needs to be charged with a crime. He was too busy getting drunk at a cocktail hour at his conference to care while Lahaina burned.. Guy is worse than button boy..he cost countless lives.
 

EmpirE231

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Interesting



Oh yea, he's not a woke lil Enviro-nazi with power...................... 😆




The governor said conflicts over water are being reshaped in an age of climate change and wildfires. Now the conflict includes opponents who do not want water to be used to fight fires, the governor said.

“One thing that people need to understand especially those from far away is that there’s been a great deal of water conflict on Maui for many years,” Green said. “It’s important that we’re honest about this. People have been fighting against the release of water to fight fires. I’ll leave that to you to explore.”


“We have a difficult time on Maui and other rural areas getting enough water for houses, for our people, for any response,” Green added. “But it’s important we start being honest. There are currently people still fighting in our state giving us water access to fight and prepare for fires even as more storms arise.”


Green said the state is in the midst of a “comprehensive review” by Attorney General Anne Lopez of decisions made before and during the firefighting efforts.


“There will be multiple reviews at every level,” he said.


In 2022, two Maui senators, Gil Keith-Agaran and Lynne DeCoite, introduced a measure to push DLNR to allow fresh water to be used to fight fires and pointed to West Maui as being particularly vulnerable.
Wtf!!! As if the the entire island is not surrounded by water 😵‍💫
 

boatpi

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Well, just as I suggested that some of my previous postings, it’s now been announced. There was absolutely no fire plan for Maui. Zero no preparation no emergency operations plan, no standard plans for anything related to fire.

All the warnings on the world from several well published studies, and no one did a thing about it. They just sat on it.

And the voters in Hawaii keep electing he’s incompetence. To add to the sadness. They’re all excited Joe Biden’s gonna show up.
 

HNL2LHC

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Well, just as I suggested that some of my previous postings, it’s now been announced. There was absolutely no fire plan for Maui. Zero no preparation no emergency operations plan, no standard plans for anything related to fire.

All the warnings on the world from several well published studies, and no one did a thing about it. They just sat on it.

And the voters in Hawaii keep electing he’s incompetence. To add to the sadness. They’re all excited Joe Biden’s gonna show up.
Things are going just as the politicians had planned. Funny how a lot of tour guides on our vacation in Europe this summer had noted that early governments just give enough to the populace to keep them from revolting. Hawaii‘s population is an amicable flock for sure.
 

stephenkatsea

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Have to wonder about the functional life span of a wooden power pole in that environment? Who will own properties in Maui when this is over?
 

hallett21

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Have to wonder about the functional life span of a wooden power pole in that environment? Who will own properties in Maui when this is over?
Those with deep pockets. With the Woosley fire here in Malibu there were hundred of people under insured. They can sell their free and clear dirt but can’t afford to build a new home.
 

Taboma

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Those with deep pockets. With the Woosley fire here in Malibu there were hundred of people under insured. They can sell their free and clear dirt but can’t afford to build a new home.
Why were they underinsured while living in an area prone to fires ? I know a couple of my neighbors who were, and had bragged about their lower rates, rolled the dice and lost. Then promptly called the news channel so they could go live on the 6pm news and cry about the mean ole insurance company. In some areas people may have been upside down, but doubt that's the case in Malibu.
A couple of neighbors up here sold their lots and moved on, but it was far more psychologically motivated than financially.

Seems odd folks in Lahaina didn't have those buildings insured, or their homes, but I haven't a clue what the story is there.
My wife and I went to Maui for a couple of days, on two trips, went to Lahaina maybe once. Spent the vast majority of the time in Kona, always preferring the big island more.
 

2Driver

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He needs to be charged with a crime. He was too busy getting drunk at a cocktail hour at his conference to care while Lahaina burned.. Guy is worse than button boy..he cost countless lives.

Something is seriously wrong if there really is only one guy with the ability to push the siren button.
At some point you just sound the sirens. If nothing else it gets people outside to look around and see what’s coming.

IDK the first thing people do is look for someone to hang the disaster on. Maybe sometimes there are just too many moving parts to lay single blame, including Mother Nature, that contribute to an unexpected event that no one prepared, practiced or had a process for. A shame.
 
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Gonefishin5555

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Why were they underinsured while living in an area prone to fires ? I know a couple of my neighbors who were, and had bragged about their lower rates, rolled the dice and lost. Then promptly called the news channel so they could go live on the 6pm news and cry about the mean ole insurance company. In some areas people may have been upside down, but doubt that's the case in Malibu.
A couple of neighbors up here sold their lots and moved on, but it was far more psychologically motivated than financially.

Seems odd folks in Lahaina didn't have those buildings insured, or their homes, but I haven't a clue what the story is there.
My wife and I went to Maui for a couple of days, on two trips, went to Lahaina maybe once. Spent the vast majority of the time in Kona, always preferring the big island more.
I don’t know if I was underinsured by my home when I bought in 2010 had about 400k for structure and when I called back in June it was about 600k which wasn’t nearly enough for a 3500sq ft home in OC but I managed to get it increase to 840k and the agent told me there was an additional 20% for cost increases built into the policy so she said I would be good for anything up to a million. I’m guessing most people are underinsured given recent inflation and the cost of things right now.
 
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