Tesla Continues to collapse.

[pronstar]

The whole “what’s an American carmaker” argument is complex.

Plus carmakers these days are really “assemblers” of sub-assemblies that come from all over.

What’s better for America:
A Buick designed and built in China/South Korea with overseas suppliers?

Or a Tundra designed and built in American with American suppliers?


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[Uncle Dave]

The whole “what’s an American carmaker” argument is complex.

Plus carmakers these days are really “assemblers” of sub-assemblies that come from all over.
What’s better for America:
A Buick designed and built in China/South Korea with overseas suppliers?
Or a Tundra designed and built in American with American suppliers?
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Some have become that, others not so much.

It is a bit more complex as you suggest.

Insinuating Tesla some how "sold out" is a ludicrous position only haters try to lead.
Guys that whined loudest about losing money now flip to China as a reason not to like tesla - while ignoring again how everyone else succeeds (or fails)
Being global in multiple ways is the only way anyone succeeds.

You got guys here loving on "American" companies that specifically opened manufacturing in Mexico to not pay Americans a fair wage
( there is no actual market in Mexico - only cheap labor) GM took my money then opened up in Mexico after.

Tesla hires Americans in the most expensive market in the world - Californian - and hasn't run to Mexico like so many others.

- and in the end they get admiration from me for that.



UD

 

[spectras only]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/t...-loan-from-chinese-banks-for-shanghai-factory
Tesla secures $1.29 billion loan from Chinese banks for Shanghai factory

 

[Uncle Dave]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...l-collapse-says-hedge-fund-manager-2018-03-27
not looking good. Months from a complete collapse. All time lows today.

Looks like Elon pulled that rabbit out of his hat........

UD

 

[530RL]

Ugly year for Tesla doubters.......

https://markets.businessinsider.com...lers-pain-losses-mount-2019-2020-1-1028793774

 

[Uncle Dave]

Ugly year for Tesla doubters.......

https://markets.businessinsider.com...lers-pain-losses-mount-2019-2020-1-1028793774

I understand doubting - they still have a tough ride ahead.

What I didn't understand is why certain people took such radical positions on the matter with such certainty rather than take any kind of middle road that would leave them room to discuss if it didn't go the way they wanted it to go.



UD

 

[pronstar]

I understand doubting - they still have a tough ride ahead.

What I didn't understand is why certain people took such radical positions on the matter with such certainty rather than take any kind of middle road that would leave them room to discuss if it didn't go the way they wanted it to go.



UD

The company fundamentals have been atrocious.

But fundamentals alone don’t dictate stock valuations, especially for a visionary like Musk [emoji106]


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[SBMech]

I understand doubting - they still have a tough ride ahead.

What I didn't understand is why certain people took such radical positions on the matter with such certainty rather than take any kind of middle road that would leave them room to discuss if it didn't go the way they wanted it to go.



UD

The company fundamentals have been atrocious.

But fundamentals alone don’t dictate stock valuations, especially for a visionary like Musk [emoji106]


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They have been loosing money on average for every vehicle sold for most of the last 3 years according to various investment sites.

https://www.investopedia.com/articl...-losing-money-each-time-it-sells-car-tsla.asp These guys think he is.

Guy is a fucking magician, no idea how he keeps juggling it, but loosing money on most of the vehicles sold is going to catch up eventually...

Credit where it is due, he is keeping labor here for assembly anyhow, gets a gold star for that...

 

[530RL]

Tesla has an advantage for the short term with a nationwide proprietary charging network.

How long it lasts will matter.

 

[Raffit78]

Looks like Elon pulled that rabbit out of his hat........

UD

Just wait till all the others he pulls out of his hat....

Thankfully it won’t be my money.


https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...kwa3hzcWV4dGo5d3REdWtUUi1iTlVWYjhqMzZ1WjdBbGw.





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[hallett21]

Tesla has an advantage for the short term with a nationwide proprietary charging network.

How long it lasts will matter.

I’ve only wired electric chargers for Tesla’s. Are all of the connections universal or does each manufacturer use their own design?

Reason I ask is can a non Tesla charge at their branded super charging stations?


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[pronstar]

I’ve only wired electric chargers for Tesla’s. Are all of the connections universal or does each manufacturer use their own design?

Reason I ask is can a non Tesla charge at their branded super charging stations?


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The level 2 chargers are universal, but slow to charge.

The super fast charging stations tend to be specific, but the industry needs to figure out some standards.


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[highvoltagehands]

Just wait till all the others he pulls out of his hat....

Thankfully it won’t be my money.


https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...kwa3hzcWV4dGo5d3REdWtUUi1iTlVWYjhqMzZ1WjdBbGw.
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Tesla must not be being paying for Full Page Premium Advertisement with Hot Boat,oops I mean C&D.

 

[Raffit78]

Tesla must not be being paying for Full Page Premium Advertisement with Hot Boat,oops I mean C&D.

How can they pay for advertisement, when they can’t make money.


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[highvoltagehands]

If you say so. They’re still technically a startup auto company considering every new model requires a new line and reinvestment. It’s not like other established manufacturers that can just drop & pick models by retooling existing production lines. Tesla has done something no one else has, not Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Mercedes,BMW, etc... Those companies have been around 120 years and still don’t have anything comparable on the market, much less charging network. 120 years later and they’re still playing catchup to someone self taught less than 20 years old.

 

[Raffit78]

I’m not disagreeing in the technology. It’s always nice to have a shake up in any industry.




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[Uncle Dave]

Just wait till all the others he pulls out of his hat....

Thankfully it won’t be my money.


https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...kwa3hzcWV4dGo5d3REdWtUUi1iTlVWYjhqMzZ1WjdBbGw.

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Any thoughts on how well the model Y will do?

Mine either, but I enjoyed my ride up.

There was a conclusion to that post -

"In less than a week that included two holidays, our car is back up and running."

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30383959/tesla-model-3-repaired-after-breakdown/

 

[Uncle Dave]

If you say so. They’re still technically a startup auto company considering every new model requires a new line and reinvestment. It’s not like other established manufacturers that can just drop & pick models by retooling existing production lines. Tesla has done something no one else has, not Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Mercedes,BMW, etc... Those companies have been around 120 years and still don’t have anything comparable on the market, much less charging network. 120 years later and they’re still playing catchup to someone self taught less than 20 years old.

Yup his guy has built the most valuable American car company. Amazing.

IF one sole judges on financial performance all American car companies have all been bankrupt, and and or rescued by the government with bail out money.

Some euro snob just posted a comparison between the 835I tech (150K) and the model 3 and the author likened the two comparisons between a blackberry and an iPhone he remarked the other guys dont know how far behind they actually are.

Tesla doesn't pay for advertisement at anywhere near the level of others do, and goes to few trade shows.

UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

They have been loosing money on average for every vehicle sold for most of the last 3 years according to various investment sites.

https://www.investopedia.com/articl...-losing-money-each-time-it-sells-car-tsla.asp These guys think he is.
Guy is a fucking magician, no idea how he keeps juggling it, but loosing money on most of the vehicles sold is going to catch up eventually...Credit where it is due, he is keeping labor here for assembly anyhow, gets a gold star for that...

Framing articles in a way that that insinuates there isnt profit margin in the car is standard fare, instead of saying the company lost x a share, this or that quarter - it sounds worse if say "they lost X per car" which is a totally valid- but myopic view of whats happening - that alone totally ignores investments in capacity, cash on hand and the ability to get cash which elon excels at and even guys like Cramer have finally come around to admit - he can get near endless cash for this endeavor.

It's hard to make profit while building infrastructure.
They have only done it a few times and will likely putter a while longer.

They are making smart long term investments and getting better at timing the latest factory by and large started on time and budget

Wall street is rewarding them

UD

 

[pronstar]

Tesla must not be being paying for Full Page Premium Advertisement with Hot Boat,oops I mean C&D.

Surprisingly, Tesla’s ad budget is precisely zero.
They make no ads.

Contrast this with, say, Lexus, who spends ~$400 million annually in advertising.

Across the industry, about $1k per vehicle goes to advertising.


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[530RL]

I’ve only wired electric chargers for Tesla’s. Are all of the connections universal or does each manufacturer use their own design?

Reason I ask is can a non Tesla charge at their branded super charging stations?


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Early on Tesla attempted to get other manufacturers to contribute to building out a charging network as well as agree on a charging port and software monitoring standard and naturally the other manufacturers said pound sand.

So there are sites on the internet that show people how to attempt to rig up an adapter with some software to attempt to make a supercharger work, but it is far beyond the skill set of the average car owner and technically illegal as for now, Tesla super chargers are a proprietary company owned and controlled facility where Tesla has no legal or contractual obligation to help their competitors as their competitors took a pass early on.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Surprisingly, Tesla’s ad budget is precisely zero.
They make no ads.

Contrast this with, say, Lexus, who spends ~$400 million annually in advertising.

Across the industry, about $1k per vehicle goes to advertising.

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"Ads" - no, "advertising" - depends on definition.

In our industry we consider trade shows, press demo units, advertising and they do do a few but clearly the standard models aren't being followed.

Ad to savings on advertising there is no dealer margin taken out of the vehicles this amounts to from 10-30% depending saved per car.

There are other costs, but their model is indeed hugely different.

UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

So there are sites on the internet that show people how to attempt to rig up an adapter with some software to attempt to make a supercharger work, but it is far beyond the skill set of the average car owner and technically illegal as for now

With up to 250KW at the end of that cable - this seems like an exceptionally bad idea.

UD

 

[highvoltagehands]

Early on Tesla attempted to get other manufacturers to contribute to building out a charging network as well as agree on a charging port and software monitoring standard and naturally the other manufacturers said pound sand.

So there are sites on the internet that show people how to attempt to rig up an adapter with some software to attempt to make a supercharger work, but it is far beyond the skill set of the average car owner and technically illegal as for now, Tesla super chargers are a proprietary company owned and controlled facility where Tesla has no legal or contractual obligation to help their competitors as their competitors took a pass early on.

When I was at Cupertino Electric we did majority of Tesla/PG&E EV Stations. These aren’t something to Afro engineer with.

 

[530RL]

With up to 250KW at the end of that cable - this seems like an exceptionally bad idea.

UD

When I was at Cupertino Electric we did majority of Tesla/PG&E EV Stations. These aren’t something to Afro engineer with.

It’s like in some countries where people drill holes in fuel distribution lines to get some free gas. It works until it doesn’t......

 

[regor]

3 People Critical In Salt Lake City After Tesla Runs Red Light, Smashes Into Car At "High Rate Of Speed"

Can you dopes please stop driving these subsidized pieces of shit.

 

[SBMech]

3 People Critical In Salt Lake City After Tesla Runs Red Light, Smashes Into Car At "High Rate Of Speed"

Can you dopes please stop driving these subsidized pieces of shit.

A bad one too, the battery went "boom".

 

[highvoltagehands]

3 People Critical In Salt Lake City After Tesla Runs Red Light, Smashes Into Car At "High Rate Of Speed"

Can you dopes please stop driving these subsidized pieces of shit.

C’mon Rog! Quit posting National Inquirer shit. You’re better than that. The article should read 2 idiots drove a car at high rate of speed thru red light and smashed into a car. This is hardly Tesla’s fault. Guess things are kinda slow down in dungeon?

 

[SBMech]

C’mon Rog! Quit posting National Inquirer shit. You’re better than that. The article should read 2 idiots drove a car at high rate of speed thru red light and smashed into a car. This is hardly Tesla’s fault. Guess things are kinda slow down in dungeon?

So said driver was capable of disabling all the level 3 nannies to prevent a crash? You know, it literally will prevent you from running into something or someone.....it takes control.

How versed are you with modern vehicle electronics HV?

 

[WhatExit?]

No collapse on the horizon...

Tesla becomes more valuable than GM and Ford combined

Tesla this week became more valuable than the two largest American automakers combined — leaving some Wall Street analysts skeptical.The electric car company’s shares climbed nearly 5 percent to close at a record high of $492.14 Wednesday, giving it a market capitalization of more than $88.7 billion.

That’s more than the combined market cap of General Motors and Ford, which were worth about $49.5 billion and $36.6 billion, respectively, as of Thursday morning. Some analysts expressed reservations about Elon Musk’s auto company, which churns out a tiny number of cars compared to its more established rivals.

“There are still some problematic issues out there, chief among them is what will its sustained profitability look like, and when will it start to be valued like a car company and not a tech company,” David Kudla, chief investment strategist at MainStay Capital Management, told Reuters.

Tesla’s stock price has more than doubled over the past three months thanks to a third-quarter profit, stronger-than-expected deliveries in the fourth quarter and the opening of a new factory in China. The company delivered about 367,500 vehicles worldwide last year, while GM and Ford each surpassed 2 million deliveries in the US.

But Tesla’s recent rally followed a period of volatility coinciding with CEO Musk’s outlandish behavior. He tweeted in August 2018 that he was considering taking Tesla private at $420 a share, which led to a $20 million penalty from the Securities and Exchange Commission. A video of the billionaire entrepreneur smoking pot on a podcast caused Tesla shares to tank the following month.

CFRA Research analyst Garrett Nelson lowered his opinion of Tesla on Wednesday, saying investors should sell the stock rather than hold onto it. The shares “appear fully valued” and aren’t reflecting short-term risks such as the phase-out of a federal electric vehicle tax credit, he said.

“With TSLA’s market cap now exceeding GM and Ford combined despite having only about 3% of joint vehicle sales volume, we think investors have given TSLA plenty of credit for future growth, raising execution risk,” Nelson wrote in a Wednesday note, using Tesla’s stock ticker symbol.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Come on Reg - you are smarter than that -on both points.

The crash stuff is hilarious - anytime any other vehicle crashes the driver crashes.

Whenever a guy driving a tesla crashes - its the cars fault.

The same guys that argue vehemently that the people kill people - not guns - flip and support the narrative that the car somehow kills the driver in the case of Tesla.



UD

 

[mbrown2]

Come on Reg - you are smarter than that -on both points.

The crash stuff is hilarious - anytime any other vehicle crashes the driver crashes.

Whenever a guy driving a tesla crashes - its the cars fault.

The same guys that argue vehemently that the people kill people - not guns - flip and support the narrative that the car somehow kills the driver in the case of Tesla.



UD

Funny...I have been following this thread...and I have no Telsa stock and still prefer gas engines...but it is laughable at some of the arguments against Telsa....at the end of the day they are a tech company like Amazon was....they will be funded like one until they have no more innovation or are disrupted by someone else. You cannot valuate them against their traditional competition ....ie: Amazon vs Barnes Noble in the early days...and now the the highest valued car company with a only sliver of market share. Welcome to the digital age where 8yrs olds make 20M yr + on youtube for opening gifts.

 

[pronstar]

Wall Street hates auto companies...that’s why their valuations are relatively low given their fundamentals.

Tesla is valued like a tech company.


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[jet496]

Funny...I have been following this thread...and I have no Telsa stock and still prefer gas engines...but it is laughable at some of the arguments against Telsa....at the end of the day they are a tech company like Amazon was....they will be funded like one until they have no more innovation or are disrupted by someone else. You cannot valuate them against their traditional competition ....ie: Amazon vs Barnes Noble in the early days...and now the the highest valued car company with a only sliver of market share. Welcome to the digital age where 8yrs olds make 20M yr + on youtube for opening gifts.

Exactly. The government probably figures it's a thousand times cheaper to simply subsidize someone like Elon Musk for space exploration & developing an alternative to combustion engines.

Imagine what will happen to the middle east if electric cars become the norm. They'll be out of business.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Tesla is far less subsidized than the other players, yet that narrative continues.

 

[mbrown2]

Exactly. The government probably figures it's a thousand times cheaper to simply subsidize someone like Elon Musk for space exploration & developing an alternative to combustion engines.

Imagine what will happen to the middle east if electric cars become the norm. They'll be out of business.

Kind of like the government subsidizes NASA, Boeing and others for aerospace exploration (space and defense contracts) at a much greater extent? I don’t see that in the same vein as automotive manufacture subsidies, I see that more like government spending on military or space exploration.

 

[pronstar]

Exactly. The government probably figures it's a thousand times cheaper to simply subsidize someone like Elon Musk for space exploration & developing an alternative to combustion engines.

Imagine what will happen to the middle east if electric cars become the norm. They'll be out of business.

Space launches have increased overall because SpaceX can do it cheaper than the government...cheaper than even China can do it.

There not some conspiracy beyond saving taxpayers a few bucks.


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[highvoltagehands]

So said driver was capable of disabling all the level 3 nannies to prevent a crash? You know, it literally will prevent you from running into something or someone.....it takes control.

How versed are you with modern vehicle electronics HV?

I’m versed enough to know that if a Tesla blows a red light at well above the posted speed limit and causes an accident it’s the drivers fault, not Teslas or anybody else’s. “Tesla’s don’t kill people, people kill people”

 

[Uncle Dave]

Wow - up 46 bucks today now 524......dont see how thats justified, but it hasnt been all along - so... Wall Street.

I dont think it can sustain this level, but Im not going to short it either.

UD

 

[pronstar]

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[OldSchoolBoats]

Just like the RE market crashing back in 2015, looks like the inmates nailed this one too....[emoji1787][emoji1787]

I literally feel like everyone has a Tesla now. They are everywhere!!! Just wonder what they are all going to do when they deplete the world's lithium supply???..

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[LargeOrangeFont]

Just like the RE market crashing back in 2015, looks like the inmates nailed this one too....[emoji1787][emoji1787]

I literally feel like everyone has a Tesla now. They are everywhere!!! Just wonder what they are all going to do when they deplete the world's lithium supply???..

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Go away from the coasts and they are few and far between.

 

[DRYHEAT]

I have no idea what the future holds for Tesla, but I think they would do a whole hell of a lot better if they designed a truck that actually looks like a truck and not some futuristic space vehicle. What a disappointment and waste in my opinion, it will be interesting to see if it sells, maybe it’s the Prius effect.

 

[napanutt]

Just wonder what they are all going to do when they deplete the world's lithium supply???..

Enjoy the hell out of it until it happens.

If you’ve never driven or been in one you won’t get it. Not the highest quality workmanship but the speed and tech makes up for it. In my opinion of course.

 

[pronstar]

Enjoy the hell out of it until it happens.

If you’ve never driven or been in one you won’t get it. Not the highest quality workmanship but the speed and tech makes up for it. In my opinion of course.

Running out of lithium is about as likely as running out of dead dinosaur juice.

The more we use, the more we seem to find.


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[riverroyal]

Im sticking with the owners drive like shit and i hope thats not the actual truck coming out
Innovation, progress, pushing the others. Hard to dislike the company.
Tesla employs a lot of americans and i dont think their pay checks bounce.

 

[spectras only]

Enjoy the hell out of it until it happens.

If you’ve never driven or been in one you won’t get it. Not the highest quality workmanship but the speed and tech makes up for it. In my opinion of course.

What is this you won't get it? Get on a trolley bus, it will give you the same feeling of straight line acceleration.
I've driven the Fisker Karma that I prefer over a electric only vehicle.

 

[PlumLoco]

Just don't crash them because no one will take it off your hands. And it takes a swimming pool worth of water to put out the battery when it catches fire. Again. And again.

https://www.zerohedge.com/technolog...ctim-cant-find-anyone-recycle-his-wrecked-car

 

[Carlson-jet]

Just don't crash them because no one will take it off your hands. And it takes a swimming pool worth of water to put out the battery when it catches fire. Again. And again.

https://www.zerohedge.com/technolog...ctim-cant-find-anyone-recycle-his-wrecked-car

Didn't read the article but it would seem like insurance should be handling this if bought properly?
If not, I see my rates going up so others can feel smug.

edit: Read it, and will double down. Although that didn't happen in the States, I'm wondering where the liability will fall.

 

[highvoltagehands]

Just don't crash them because no one will take it off your hands. And it takes a swimming pool worth of water to put out the battery when it catches fire. Again. And again.

https://www.zerohedge.com/technolog...ctim-cant-find-anyone-recycle-his-wrecked-car

BS! Just don’t allow dumbasses to drive Teslas in Austria and this shit won’t happen. What’s with you guys always blaming Tesla when some dumbass can’t handle his car and wrecks it.
And then Posting an article highlighting issues in another country and trying to pass it off like it’s happening here? That’s some EL Pollo PlumLoco BS.