Speed UTV take 3

[BHC Vic]

What are they liable for? I would imagine it isn’t much different than any of the other manufacturers running similar speeds, if not faster, or the dozens of sand rail manufacturers.

Is it speed or horsepower that makes boat insurance go up or harder to get?

 

[rivrrts429]

Is it speed or horsepower that makes boat insurance go up or harder to get?

A combination. The difference between my 500 hp v hull and 1100 hp tunnel was extreme, like thousands $$.

 

[SeanRitchie]

I believe the factory settings limit the cars to the mid 80's if I recollect.

 

[rivermobster]

You just described todays “journalists”, politicians and mainstream media lol

It's funny...

When you watch the original Spiderman movie, you see Exactly how this works, but it doesn't bother you cause it's just a movie!

Yet, so true...

 

[SKIDMARC]

Here is the biggest difference to me. Yes any UTV is a glorified golf cart and you can break ANY of them if you try and drive them like a TT. However you need to look at the number of units being sold vs the number of units having issues. Do some Pro R have issues? Sure they do, how many tens of thousands of them are there out there? Whats the real percent having issues?

Same with the Can-Am how many out there and how many with the same issue?

Now goto the Speed car, there are literally a couple hundred of them out there and what percent of those are having issues? I do not know a SINGLE person who has been delivered a Speed yet and had 0 issues at all. Every single person I know with one has had multiple issues and most of them have gone back to Speed at least once.

Thats the alarming part to me. I simply think they released these too soon and without enough real world testing. China testing on a home built track going in circles is not going to be the same as real world use at Glamis/Ocotillo/Baja/Utah.......

100%. Also the owners of Polaris and BRP are not out there bashing the competition.

This has been said god knows how many times. But you still get the “ I don’t understand how so many people without financial interest in the company even care and post about it”.

It because this is social media. Isn't this what it’s all about. It’s what drives revenue for the site like or not, believe it or not.

 

[hallett21]

100%. Also the owners of Polaris and BRP are not out there bashing the competition.

This has been said god knows how many times. But you still get the “ I don’t understand how so many people without financial interest in the company even care and post about it”.

It because this is social media. Isn't this what it’s all about. It’s what drives revenue for the site like or not, believe it or not.

For some reason people are tying the purchased product to the CEO’s personality. I don’t know anyone who owns a Ford who cares what Farley says.

Maybe I’m just really disconnected from the world lol. As long as the boat, truck, sxs, blender, screw gun etc operate per the manufacturer specs I am happy. They can do whatever they want on social media as far as I’m concerned lol.

If Speed’s product is superior or inferior to the competition so be it. But let the finished product dictate what you purchase not the attitude of the CEO.

 

[RiverDave]

I believe the factory settings limit the cars to the mid 80's if I recollect.

I can assure you it doesn’t.. lol

 

[BHC Vic]

Ok real question. Let’s say robby does the right thing and warranties engines. At what point is all the profit gone? Especially since these early cars didn’t have much profit to begin with. I’m not bashing just curious how much money can be thrown at this without being upside down. Maybe that’s why he wants to see what failed? Maybe it won’t all be on speeds dime?

 

[hallett21]

Ok real question. Let’s say robby does the right thing and warranties engines. At what point is all the profit gone? Especially since these early cars didn’t have much profit to begin with. I’m not bashing just curious how much money can be thrown at this without being upside down. Maybe that’s why he wants to see what failed? Maybe it won’t all be on speeds dime?

From what’s been thrown around on here it sounds like it was “subbed” out so technically “Speed” isn’t financially on the hook?

 

[BHC Vic]

From what’s been thrown around on here it sounds like it was “subbed” out so technically “Speed” isn’t financially on the hook?

So just labor to swap em maybe? I’m just curious

 

[jesco]

I believe the factory settings limit the cars to the mid 80's if I recollect.

CanAm is at 82mph I believe until you do an EVO flash, that deletes it and a few other things... We were doing 95ish across the lake bed at The Mint... it got SKETCHY!!! Anything over 90mph in a SXS is crazy fast! My 2 seat CanAm starts to pack air and starts drifting side to side or with the cross wind, it isnt a good feeling. This pic is somewhere in the low 90s... 2020 Mint 400

 

[hallett21]

So just labor to swap em maybe? I’m just curious

Idk how that plays out. I gotta imagine Speed eats the labor since these were made overseas.

I don’t think Speed is unaffected financially from this outside of the labor. Bolts, oil etc have to be paid for by someone.

 

[RiverDave]

Ok real question. Let’s say robby does the right thing and warranties engines. At what point is all the profit gone? Especially since these early cars didn’t have much profit to begin with. I’m not bashing just curious how much money can be thrown at this without being upside down. Maybe that’s why he wants to see what failed? Maybe it won’t all be on speeds dime?

I believe the last numbers I heard were 250 million invested so far and counting.. I don’t think 10-15 engines is gonna be the deal breaker..

The initial cars were actually sold at a loss.

 

[sdpm]

What are they liable for? I would imagine it isn’t much different than any of the other manufacturers running similar speeds, if not faster, or the dozens of sand rail manufacturers.

Nothing until something happens. I manufactured boats for about 10 years. Some of the ones we built went pretty fast. I had product liability insurance to try and protect myself and company from any lawsuit that might come up during that time. It was very expensive! That was one of the main reasons I stopped building boats. I will guarantee you if and when someone gets seriously hurt or god forbid killed, they will not be exempt. Also I will bet you that those other company's have something in place just for that reason. Actually I know of 2 family's that have sued BRP and they settled out of court. When I bought my Dual Sport Sand Car, I had to sign a release of liability before I took delivery. Come to find out that it would have never stood up in a court of law if something would have happened.

 

[SeanRitchie]

I can assure you it doesn’t.. lol

As in more, or less? I thought I remember him saying he didn't want these things doing more than high 80's for the general public (which is a good idea in my opinion)

 

[SeanRitchie]

CanAm is at 82mph I believe until you do an EVO flash, that deletes it and a few other things... We were doing 95ish across the lake bed at The Mint... it got SKETCHY!!! Anything over 90mph in a SXS is crazy fast! My 2 seat CanAm starts to pack air and starts drifting side to side or with the cross wind, it isnt a good feeling. This pic is somewhere in the low 90s... 2020 Mint 400

View attachment 1319691

Yup. I've done the high gear swap in a few Can-Am transmissions with customers stating they were 100+ MPH on 35's. A few well known Pro-R racers have told me 110 MPH recently.

 

[sdpm]

Anything that is manufactured, built and sold to someone runs the risk of being sued! The more dangerous it is the higher the risk. That's all.

 

[Fishd00d]

I don’t think 10-15 engines is gonna be the deal breaker..

What did they change on all the other engines out there and on cars being delivered right now that wont have the same fate? There is no stop ride going on is there?

 

[rivermobster]

For some reason people are tying the purchased product to the CEO’s personality. I don’t know anyone who owns a Ford who cares what Farley says.

Maybe I’m just really disconnected from the world lol. As long as the boat, truck, sxs, blender, screw gun etc operate per the manufacturer specs I am happy. They can do whatever they want on social media as far as I’m concerned lol.

If Speed’s product is superior or inferior to the competition so be it. But let the finished product dictate what you purchase not the attitude of the CEO.

The CEO of Bud Light Seriously agrees with You!!!

 

[RiverDave]

As in more, or less? I thought I remember him saying he didn't want these things doing more than high 80's for the general public (which is a good idea in my opinion)

More.. there’s videos out there of them running 100+

 

[RiverDave]

What did they change on all the other engines out there and on cars being delivered right now that wont have the same fate? There is no stop ride going on is there?

Well there in lies the problem.. I think they are all the same with the exception of potential tunes that went in them. I think me and a habdfull
Of others got a “hot tune”. Because my car was abnormally fast.. a couple others were as well..

 

[hallett21]

The CEO of Bud Light Seriously agrees with You!!!

I’ve hated Budlight my whole life .

Lol. If Coors Light had done what Bud did I’d probably still drink it at the river. At the end of the day it’s a product to me. I either want to buy it or I don’t.

Budlight has fully recovered from the issue and it’s in everyone’s rearview mirror. Except for here lol.

 

[RiverDave]

CanAm is at 82mph I believe until you do an EVO flash, that deletes it and a few other things... We were doing 95ish across the lake bed at The Mint... it got SKETCHY!!! Anything over 90mph in a SXS is crazy fast! My 2 seat CanAm starts to pack air and starts drifting side to side or with the cross wind, it isnt a good feeling. This pic is somewhere in the low 90s... 2020 Mint 400

View attachment 1319691

My 4 seat can am running in the 80’s on the street was spooky as fuck..

I can tell you the speed at 80+ is planted and not spooky at all.

 

[rivermobster]

I’ve hated Budlight my whole life .

Lol. If Coors Light had done what Bud did I’d probably still drink it at the river. At the end of the day it’s a product to me. I either want to buy it or I don’t.

Budlight has fully recovered from the issue and it’s in everyone’s rearview mirror. Except for here lol.

Mmmmmmm, not exactly....

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/29/food/bud-light-year-in-review-future/index.html

 

[hallett21]

Mmmmmmm, not exactly....

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/29/food/bud-light-year-in-review-future/index.html

 

[rivermobster]

View attachment 1319708

That's AB stock overall. The brand itself might never recover.

 

[hallett21]

That's AB stock overall. The brand itself might never recover.

I doubt AB cares lol.

 

[pixrthis]

For some reason people are tying the purchased product to the CEO’s personality. I don’t know anyone who owns a Ford who cares what Farley says.

Maybe I’m just really disconnected from the world lol. As long as the boat, truck, sxs, blender, screw gun etc operate per the manufacturer specs I am happy. They can do whatever they want on social media as far as I’m concerned lol.

If Speed’s product is superior or inferior to the competition so be it. But let the finished product dictate what you purchase not the attitude of the CEO.

Why do you think so many corporate boards remove the presidents for spewing bullshit? Ask the guy that created Papa John’s how expressing his opinion worked out for him. It happens a lot.

 

[hallett21]

Why do you think so many corporate boards remove the presidents for spewing bullshit? Ask the guy that created Papa John’s how expressing his opinion worked out for him. It happens a lot.

Happen to know a friend of friend of Papa John lol.

While he got yanked it sounds like a life I want to live lol. Especially when everyone told him he was an idiot for opening pizza joints.

 

[pixrthis]

Happen to know a friend of friend of Papa John lol.

While he got yanked it sounds like a life I want to live lol. Especially when everyone told him he was an idiot for opening pizza joints.

The point of my reply was that presidents of corporations are occasionally removed for spouting personal opinions, not that Papa John’s life sucks. I wonder if he regrets taking his company public, we had a motorhome manufacturer as a sponsor who almost instantly regretted taking his company public.

 

[hallett21]

The point of my reply was that presidents of corporations are occasionally removed for spouting personal opinions, not that Papa John’s life sucks. I wonder if he regrets taking his company public, we had a motorhome manufacturer as a sponsor who almost instantly regretted taking his company public.

I was just trying to bring a little levity to the convo on a Friday .

But I 100% agree with you from a business standpoint. There is nothing to be gained by being polarizing to your consumers.

But as a consumer I have not cared what a CEO has said. I just want the product to meet my expectations.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Happen to know a friend of friend of Papa John lol.

While he got yanked it sounds like a life I want to live lol. Especially when everyone told him he was an idiot for opening pizza joints.

But then you have the My Pillow guy.......doubling down while everyone was cancelling his brand, and he's still driving the boat!

 

[HALLETT BOY]

In case someone here wants a new car without the wait …

 

[rivermobster]

I doubt AB cares lol.

The 400 people that have been laid off might care though.

Point being, when you're the voice of a company, you should probably watch what you're saying and doing...

 

[RiverDave]

Maybe we an argue the finer points of bud light elsewhere

 

[RiverDave]

In case someone here wants a new car without the wait …
View attachment 1319723

They are still making money at that price for a le..

Good deal though!

 

[pixrthis]

My cage builder has a customer who has both the new Can Am and a Speed car that he used to pre run the 1,000 that’s for sale for what he paid for it. Anybody interested in it I can pass on his number.

 

[hallett21]

The 400 people that have been laid off might care though.

Point being, when you're the voice of a company, you should probably watch what you're saying and doing...

View attachment 1319724

I feel for them. But AB at one point lost almost 20 billion in value. 1 billion divided by 400 is 2.5 million. Those 400 are literally a drop in the bucket.

As far as RG is concerned if he builds a better car (clearly they have their issues today) are people really not going to buy because of his attitude?

If it’s the best out there people will buy it. If it sucks then we will watch the company crater. But my opinion is that you shouldn’t base your purchase off of the attitude of the CEO. You should make your purchase decision based upon the quality of the product.

 

[rivermobster]

I feel for them. But AB at one point lost almost 20 billion in value. 1 billion divided by 400 is 2.5 million. Those 400 are literally a drop in the bucket.

As far as RG is concerned if he builds a better car (clearly they have their issues today) are people really not going to buy because of his attitude?

If it’s the best out there people will buy it. If it sucks then we will watch the company crater. But my opinion is that you shouldn’t base your purchase off of the attitude of the CEO. You should make your purchase decision based upon the quality of the product.

Your Opinion has been noted.

 

[BHC Vic]

Well there in lies the problem.. I think they are all the same with the exception of potential tunes that went in them. I think me and a habdfull
Of others got a “hot tune”. Because my car was abnormally fast.. a couple others were as well..

Sounds like that David guy was messing with his clutch. I was wondering if that’s what Robby was talking about. But then the blow off valve guy so I dunno. At this point it’s just free entertainment for me.

 

[NIKAL]

Can he drive it with a windshield on and not overheat?

Austin, that’s a lame question. Running a windshield is not optimal in any rear radiator car, and that’s not because of the quality of the car or parts. It’s inherent due to design. I guess until they can the cars a failure in your mind? The old Arctic Cat X had a rear radiator, the YXZ has a rear radiator and you can’t run windshields in those. Guys that move their UTV radiators back because of all the cab heat, can’t run windshields either. There are pluses & minus to each configuration. Run in the front, you have longer lines, cab heat, and the radiator is exposed to more debris. But you can run a windshield , but it’s also going to get even hotter in the cab! Put it in the back, depending on how low it’s mounted and you’re going to be more dependent on your fans, and windshields are not going to work. Pick your configuration and your positives or negatives.

Look at the Mav R, you can’t just run a windshield in it! They kept the radiator up front, but moved all the extra coolers behind the rear seats. If you want to run a windshield your must buy & use their roof & roof scoop that connects to the two big ass inlets between the seats to cool those coolers. Can Am makes it work, but it still needs extra ducting as the windshield blocks it, and without the extra ducting you will overheat the Mav R.

IMO Speed should not have offered a windshield, but the fact is early on they did and they thought they could run in mild temperatures with it. And guys who would never run a windshield anyways just used the windshield as a reason to point out or put down the Speed car, just like you did.

 

[NIKAL]

From what’s been thrown around on here it sounds like it was “subbed” out so technically “Speed” isn’t financially on the hook?

Idk how that plays out. I gotta imagine Speed eats the labor since these were made overseas.

I don’t think Speed is unaffected financially from this outside of the labor. Bolts, oil etc have to be paid for by someone.

This is not how it works. If the defect is due to design then Speed is responsible for all replacement costs. But like the Transmission side case or the turbo. They are manufactured by supplier that Speed partners with. If the defect is found to be a result of not following the specs or a manufacturing or material error, then the manufacturer supplier in most cases is responsible. So they can be on the hook for replacement parts, and for the labor costs to swap out the defective part. It all depends on the agreements and volumes of failures.

The Turbo & trans side case were most likely covered by the supplier as it’s been said the failed parts were not manufactured to design spec. These compression releases that have failed sound like a design issue and Speed would be on the hook for the changes. Early on in development Speed had an oil / air separator issue. It was a design issue and Speed had to absorb the cost of design, tooling and production, write off the hundreds or thousands of separators that might have been produced.

 

[hallett21]

This is not how it works. If the defect is due to design then Speed is responsible for all replacement costs. But like the Transmission side case or the turbo. They are manufactured by supplier that Speed partners with. If the defect is found to be a result of not following the specs or a manufacturing or material error, then the manufacturer supplier in most cases is responsible. So they can be on the hook for replacement parts, and for the labor costs to swap out the defective part. It all depends on the agreements and volumes of failures.

The Turbo & trans side case were most likely covered by the supplier as it’s been said the failed parts were not manufactured to design spec. These compression releases that have failed sound like a design issue and Speed would be on the hook for the changes. Early on in development Speed had an oil / air separator issue. It was a design issue and Speed had to absorb the cost of design, tooling and production, write off the hundreds or thousands of separators that might have been produced.

So who made the motor? Hisun?

 

[BHC Vic]

How many cars are made and have motors already?

 

[RiverDave]

How many cars are made and have motors already?

In customers hands I'd bet 3-400... already made I'd bet over 1,000.

RD

 

[BHC Vic]

well hopefully he doesn’t have to replace all of them. Doesn’t give a warm fuzzy feeling to anyone I’m sure

 

[PlanB]

CanAm is at 82mph I believe until you do an EVO flash, that deletes it and a few other things... We were doing 95ish across the lake bed at The Mint... it got SKETCHY!!! Anything over 90mph in a SXS is crazy fast! My 2 seat CanAm starts to pack air and starts drifting side to side or with the cross wind, it isnt a good feeling. This pic is somewhere in the low 90s... 2020 Mint 400

View attachment 1319691

My 2020 Can Am XRS RR ran 91mph bone stock. The new R's I think are limited at 98 but I have seen some people hit triple digits momentarily on YouTube before the limiter kicks in.

 

[Bpracing1127]

In customers hands I'd bet 3-400... already made I'd bet over 1,000.

RD

I Think 200 ish in customers hands and 500 ish made

 

[Romans9]

In customers hands I'd bet 3-400... already made I'd bet over 1,000.

RD

I believe the last numbers I heard were 250 million invested so far and counting.. I don’t think 10-15 engines is gonna be the deal breaker..

The initial cars were actually sold at a loss

I Think 200 ish in customers hands and 500 ish made

If this is all fairly accurate there is no way this is sustainable especially when considering how little discretionary money that will be available for the next few years.

My son is an engineer for a company that manufactures marine parts. They and their counterparts have received notification that their orders, which have already dropped 70 percent from last year, will be cut in half for the next 2-3 years. They are looking for other industries to supply

There are big cuts happening in nearly every industry that I am in touch with.

 

[NIKAL]

So who made the motor? Hisun?

Parts of it, plus assembly. From what I have seen and told they do the castings parts like blocks & head, manifolds . Stamped parts, machining, etc.. but things like cranks, rods, cams, hardware, sensors, hoses, coils, wires, plugs, injectors, turbos, starters, alternators, gaskets etc.. are all manufactured by specific suppliers.

This is same with lots of parts. There are clutch manufacturers, shock manufacturers, electronics manufacturers. Gear manufacturers, Wheel & tire manufacturers. Not everything is built by Hisun. This is so much bigger than just one company. Sure they are a huge part of it with all the fabrication of chassis & suspension, and all the plastic injections & molds. Then with the robotics.