Power Grid

[El Rojo]

I'm curious of where all these blackouts and brown outs are taking place?

 

[Racey]

For anyone building a new house I could definitely see moving key recepticles and lights onto a sub panel from day one. Refrigerators, kitchen lights, bathroom lights etc.

Would make future generator installation infinitely easier

 

[mesquito_creek]

For anyone building a new house I could definitely see moving key recepticles and lights onto a sub panel from day one. Refrigerators, kitchen lights, bathroom lights etc.

Would make future generator installation infinitely easier

Even better would be to wire up a panel with direct Dc circuit. No inverter needed. PV to mppt to batteries. 12v devices just like a million dollar prevost Rv.

 

[SW_GLASS]

I’ll try and do a more thorough video showing start to finish. That video was tonight and nothing was over 80 degrees.

House is 1,111 sq ft on record. HVAC is on a 30amp service. House is 100% LED lighting.

I’m fully confident that the Honda can run most households. HVAC being the question mark.

Nice setup. I was curious what ton AC you were powering with the honda 7KW generator. I am interested in doing something similar for my house but from everything I am reading, I would need a pretty large generator to power a 5 ton AC and 1 fridge and a few lights. Thanks for any info you can give I appreciate it.

 

[monkeyswrench]

For anyone building a new house I could definitely see moving key recepticles and lights onto a sub panel from day one. Refrigerators, kitchen lights, bathroom lights etc.

Would make future generator installation infinitely easier

My neighbors house is like this...some key lights, plugs and the fridges.

Oddly, the previous owner had the house built that way...and he was a retire SRP engineer from Phoenix

 

[Xring01]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/06/02/blackout-states-summer-heat/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/06/02/blackout-states-summer-heat/

There is alot of great info in the above article..
Here is one item for California that should be of concern.

“California has already put its residents on notice that a similar scenario could play out again this summer. State forecasts show that during peak summer periods, California will be short about the amount of electricity it takes to power 1.3 million homes.
How extreme heat is straining California’s electrical grid
Western and Southwestern states are also confronting fresh challenges with their power supply as they head into summer. Among the biggest is a drought already disrupting the hydroelectricity systems that are key to delivering reliable power to large areas of North America. In the event that extreme heat pushes up demand in the West again this summer, a hydroelectricity shortage threatens energy emergencies across the Western Interconnection grid, which serves 80 million people across 14 states and parts of Canada and Mexico. Parched rivers and reservoirs”

Is the horse dead yet?

 

[TCHB]

I'm curious of where all these blackouts and brown outs are taking place?

mostly in the high fire areas.

 

[TCHB]

Grid cruising along this week Again lots of plants shutting down after peak and restarting in the AM

 

[Joe mama]

I’m sure someone will start a fire and blame the outages on that..so the blame game can start.

 

[DaveC]

I just did this because why not.

I’m more than happy to show a step by step video from start up to disconnect and everything in between.

The point of the video was to show what a Honda 7,000 can handle.

Thanks for this video. We have been talking about this very topic. Was wonder what generator needed to power the AC fridge and a few lights during power safety shutdowns.

Now we know

 

[Xring01]

Grid cruising along this week Again lots of plants shutting down after peak and restarting in the AM View attachment 1123763

Do you work for CAISO..
Because I am picking up a pattern here?

If so, how many times have there forecasts been wrong?

Your posts reference what happens on a good day… say average 85 degrees across CA, with no AC’s and best case scenarios. If thats your point yes you are correct the CA grid can handle that..

Thats not what my posts are about. My posts are about the worst case scenario.. 105 degrees or higher, with some un planned outages, and throw in a natural disaster or two. Which is what Florida plans for and many other states.

BTW.. I just left a dinner meeting with one of the executives from Bonneville Power Authority, discussing the Wildfire Mitagation Efforts and how to avoid another 2021 event.

 

[wash11]

I just did this because why not.

I’m more than happy to show a step by step video from start up to disconnect and everything in between.

The point of the video was to show what a Honda 7,000 can handle.

That's a bitchin, real world video.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Do you work for CAISO..
Because I am picking up a pattern here?

If so, how many times have there forecasts been wrong?

Your posts reference what happens on a good day… say average 85 degrees across CA, with no AC’s and best case scenarios. If thats your point yes you are correct the CA grid can handle that..

Thats not what my posts are about. My posts are about the worst case scenario.. 105 degrees or higher, with some un planned outages, and throw in a natural disaster or two. Which is what Florida plans for and many other states.

BTW.. I just left a dinner meeting with one of the executives from Bonneville Power Authority, discussing the Wildfire Mitagation Efforts and how to avoid another 2021 event.

I can’t wait to see the bar graphs in August.

 

[TCHB]

Do you work for CAISO..
Because I am picking up a pattern here?

If so, how many times have there forecasts been wrong?

Your posts reference what happens on a good day… say average 85 degrees across CA, with no AC’s and best case scenarios. If thats your point yes you are correct the CA grid can handle that..

Thats not what my posts are about. My posts are about the worst case scenario.. 105 degrees or higher, with some un planned outages, and throw in a natural disaster or two. Which is what Florida plans for and many other states.

BTW.. I just left a dinner meeting with one of the executives from Bonneville Power Authority, discussing the Wildfire Mitagation Efforts and how to avoid another 2021 event.

Do you work for CAISO..
Because I am picking up a pattern here?

If so, how many times have there forecasts been wrong?

Your posts reference what happens on a good day… say average 85 degrees across CA, with no AC’s and best case scenarios. If thats your point yes you are correct the CA grid can handle that..

Thats not what my posts are about. My posts are about the worst case scenario.. 105 degrees or higher, with some un planned outages, and throw in a natural disaster or two. Which is what Florida plans for and many other states.

BTW.. I just left a dinner meeting with one of the executives from Bonneville Power Authority, discussing the Wildfire Mitagation Efforts and how to avoid another 2021 event.

I was responsible for over 4,000MWs of gas fired power plants. The grid can handle just about everything you throw at it. When was the las time a major city was shut down to lack of energy. When we get 1 in 100 year events the grid will respond and shed load in a organized manner if needed. This week we have record breaking temps in certain areas and my bet the grid will not even flinch.

 

[mesquito_creek]

Doesn’t everyone either directly or indirectly somewhat “work for” CAISO if they participate? Which is every major player with more pending…

Active​

Bonneville Power Administration – entered 2022​

Tucson Electric Power – entered 2022​

Avista – entered 2022​

Tacoma Power – entered 2022​

NorthWestern Energy – entered 2021​

Los Angeles Department of Water & Power – entered 2021​

Public Service Company of New Mexico – entered 2021​

Turlock Irrigation District – entered 2021​

Salt River Project – entered 2020​

Seattle City Light – entered 2020​

Balancing Authority of Northern California – entered 2019​

Idaho Power Company – entered 2018​

Powerex – entered 2018​

Portland General Electric – entered 2017​

Puget Sound – entered 2016​

Arizona Public Service – entered 2016​

NV Energy – entered 2015​

PacifiCorp – entered 2014​

California ISO – entered 2014​

Pending​

Avangrid – entry 2023​

El Paso Electric – entry 2023​

WAPA Desert Southwest Region – entry 2023​

 

[TCHB]

No they do not work for ISO. ISO is the group that pulls this complex place together.

 

[mesquito_creek]

No they do not work for ISO. ISO is the group that pulls this complex place together. View attachment 1123951

I was being factious… electric utilities exist to make a profit. Participation in CAISO and the energy imbalance market is voluntary and therefore profitable! Every employee at a utility participates in keeping their livelihoods alive by the full vertical integration of their business making money.

PS the power trading floor always thinks they are special but if they are just one piece of the puzzle.

 

[TCHB]

I was being factious… electric utilities exist to make a profit. Participation in CAISO and the energy imbalance market is voluntary and therefore profitable! Every employee at a utility participates in keeping their livelihoods alive by the full vertical integration of their business making money.

PS the power trading floor always thinks they are special but if they are just one piece of the puzzle

Everyone thinks they are the special ones. I remember one sales guy telling me the plants will not run without his service. That is last time he set foot on the property.

 

[monkeyswrench]

No they do not work for ISO. ISO is the group that pulls this complex place together. View attachment 1123951

Stupid question, what do the dots represent? Are there power stations or substations there?

 

[TCHB]

Stupid question, what do the dots represent? Are there power stations or substations there

Power Plants as well as other price points on the transmission system.

 

[TCHB]

Today it was hot today and the grid holding up in the west. Weekend load drops off and yes schools out

 

[hallett21]

Today it was hot today and the grid holding up in the west. Weekend load drops off and yes schools out View attachment 1124397

Hotter this weekend. Showing almost the same forecasted demand as your screen shot. How much of a reduction in electricity use is there typically on the weekend? Would 5-10% be close?

 

[TCHB]

The weekend was easy. Temps up across the west but no a once in a hundred year heat storm.

I wish I had seen the website you posted sooner. At a minimum it’s fun to see how the grid cycles throughout the day.

I don’t think it was on purpose but I asked you in post #22 about grid capacity. Is that a hardline number or does that fluctuate?

I’m in agreement that the grid can run for 98% of the time with no issues. But the last 2% can sometimes be a real issue. Not trying to be doom and gloom just trying to be realistic.

Obviously it’s very easy to call the Texas freeze a once in a lifetime scenario. Unless of course you lived through it and had your home ruined.

And to be clear 90% of my clients are in a location that will be shut down due to fire/wind. So I have a business bias.

I think people should educate themselves on subjects instead listening to people with limited knowledge. I am glad you are learning about the power grid. There is no doubt it is a complex system with a lot of very smart people trying to keep our lights on.

 

[TCHB]

I went to one home who had power lines going along the property lined with beautiful trees. The owner would fight us for months before we could trim the trees. Hillside home worth $20 million with powerful attorneys.

 

[TCHB]

When a fire starts in the heavy brush where there is high voltage power lines things happen quickly. The heavy smoke has a lot of carbon particulate matter in it. The power line itself will flash between phases causing a big arch. This is why SCE is spending big $$ to replace existing lines with cables with special coverings to prevent flash overs when brush fires start.

 

[monkeyswrench]

When a fire starts in the heavy brush where there is high voltage power lines things happen quickly. The heavy smoke has a lot of carbon particulate matter in it. The power line itself will flash between phases causing a big arch. This is why SCE is spending big $$ to replace existing lines with cables with special coverings to prevent flash overs when brush fires start.

Never thought about the smoke being conductive...that adds all kinds of scary variables to the situations.

 

[Wicky]

The Green New Plague is fucking everyone now!

 

[TCHB]

Never thought about the smoke being conductive...that adds all kinds of scary variables to the situations.

Most people do not think about conductive materials that can cause flash overs dealing with these high voltage lines.

 

[Xring01]

Big bids like Egrets..
When they shit while flying, it comes out in a long stream, causes all kinds of problems to power lines.

Huge reason for lines tripping.

Wild animals in substations cause all kinds of havoc, hell even kitty kats… lol

Strings on Helium ballons…

Birds, snakes, raccons, possums


I can stay on this subject all night

 

[Wolskis]

When a fire starts in the heavy brush where there is high voltage power lines things happen quickly. The heavy smoke has a lot of carbon particulate matter in it. The power line itself will flash between phases causing a big arch. This is why SCE is spending big $$ to replace existing lines with cables with special coverings to prevent flash overs when brush fires start.

Had the same happen at a plant down in south TX. Lots of sugar cane and at harvest time the main conductors in the switch yard would get coated with the airborne debris and arc over.

 

[pronstar]

Another sleepy week. View attachment 1120241 View attachment 1120242

Here’s a similar link for those of us in Texas

Grid and Market Conditions

www.ercot.com

 

[hallett21]

Hoping to have this one up and running Friday.

I’ll try to do a video walk through.

Beach house in Malibu, moving all circuits to the new sub panel. Then we will pull the utility feed from the current main panel. The biggest hurdles with these are organizing the circuits correctly and hiding the generator (long gas line and conduit runs).

 

[hallett21]

This may be a Home Depot issue but I checked from AZ to OK and cannot find a Honda 7000.

Other online retailers are showing 30-45+ days out before they are no longer back ordered.

Not trying to instill fear but if you find one you should grab it.

 

[Wicky]

This may be a Home Depot issue but I checked from AZ to OK and cannot find a Honda 7000.

Other online retailers are showing 30-45+ days out before they are no longer back ordered.

Not trying to instill fear but if you find one you should grab it.

 

[Wicky]

 

[Bobby V]

This may be a Home Depot issue but I checked from AZ to OK and cannot find a Honda 7000.

Other online retailers are showing 30-45+ days out before they are no longer back ordered.

Not trying to instill fear but if you find one you should grab it.

I checked here a few times.

Honda 7000 Watt Generators

Honda 7000 Watt Generator superstore. Huge selection of Honda 7000 Watt Portable Generators. Buy Honda 7000 Watt Inverter Generator Direct and save.

www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com

 

[monkeyswrench]

Here's on option for genny's, https://www.maxtool.com/
They usually have a bunch of generators in stock, different brands and sizes, and ship free. They are in LaVerne I think, so most of you would pay tax?

 

[srttruck]

Here's on option for genny's, https://www.maxtool.com/
They usually have a bunch of generators in stock, different brands and sizes, and ship free. They are in LaVerne I think, so most of you would pay tax?

Maxtool is a great source with excellent customer service. The owner has a few botes and a place on the river above needles.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Maxtool is a great source with excellent customer service. The owner has a few botes and a place on the river above needles.

Didn't know that. First time I heard of them my friend with the early Ford place in San Dimas told me about them. He went to school with the son I believe. That was the guy he talked to about online sales and web stuff. Apparently, they're pretty good with it. Out here, heard of a few people buying gensets from them. The shipping costs and choices being here kind of suck.

 

[TCHB]

This last couple of weeks were easy for the grid. Many-power

plants were setting below 10% capacity factors.

 

[hallett21]

Fair amount of NG today

 

[hallett21]

What I am seeing is the maximum capacity of solar today. Sunny day and I’m guessing no maintenance outages?

Looks like we have enough NG generation capability. Hopefully we don’t take that away lol

Edit.

Power outage at Topanga CYN and Burbank.

 

[TCHB]

June almost and the grid still sleepy. Many big units still below 10% capacity factors.

 

[TCHB]

Into July now. 8 weeks left and then load goes down.

 

[Xring01]

Into July now. 8 weeks left and then load goes down. View attachment 1134019 View attachment 1134020

Hopefully there are no wild fires to deal with this year. We may get lucky,

But if history repeats itself, then we have some serious challenges on our hands.

Did you work with AEP?
What is your take on the average age of the infrastructure powering the US today? Does that concern you at all?
Take that question and apply it to the West Coast Power plants and larger Transmission Substations, does the age of that infrastructure concern you at all.

 

[TCHB]

Hopefully there are no wild fires to deal with this year. We may get lucky,

But if history repeats itself, then we have some serious challenges on our hands.

Did you work with AEP?
What is your take on the average age of the infrastructure powering the US today? Does that concern you at all?
Take that question and apply it to the West Coast Power plants and larger Transmission Substations, does the age of that infrastructure concern you at all.

SCE and AES. The entire grid and power plants are being upgraded every year. In the past 20 years most of the older plants have been phased out with newer ones being built. SCE has spent $billions on upgrading and adding new transmission lines. AES just spent a couple billion on new power plants in Southern California. Could you spend more! Yes bit the rates would go way up. No I am not concerned the age! Some our older plants were more reliable than our new ones with computer electronic controls.

 

[TCHB]

CPUC Issues Decision in SCE’s 2021 Rate Case

www.cpuc.ca.gov

 

[Xring01]

SCE and AES. The entire grid and power plants are being upgraded every year. In the past 20 years most of the older plants have been phased out with newer ones being built. SCE has spent $billions on upgrading and adding new transmission lines. AES just spent a couple billion on new power plants in Southern California. Could you spend more! Yes bit the rates would go way up. No I am not concerned the age! Some our older plants were more reliable than our new ones with computer electronic controls.

Does the name Robert Simms ring a bell to you, I worked with him mostly on the Renewable side of AES. But he also consulted to the Power Plant side. We worked together on the AES Transformer Specs. I will say the AES plants where maintained alot better than the others, like NRG and _____________________.

At SCE, I pretty much know / worked with everyone in the Apparatus Engineering & Maintenance for over 20 years. Hell it was sad day when the pretty much disbanded the “San Dimas Generation Engineering group”.

From what I have seen the GSU’s have not been upgraded or replaced and they have been ran hard very hard. I forget owned the plant in El Segundo, but they ran there GSU’s at full capacity when 3 out of 5 cooling pumps (FOA design) where not working. They abused there assets. Hell they had 50 gallon drums under the “leaks” to catch the oil dripping out of the transformer, and just pump that dripped oil right back into when the drum would get close to full.. .WHAT COULD GO WRONG… lets put contaminated oil back into a GSU running at 100%, and who cares about the moisture content or why even run a DGA, its just gonna tell us it needs maintenance.

Ormand Beach was a great plant when SCE owned it, but the moment it was sold off, DOWN HILL fast.

I could keep going. But what I have seen, most run there assets with a minimal maintenance $$$, and rarely keep maintenance supervisor for 3 years. They typically quit within that time frame. But what do I know, I only worked in the industry for 24 years.

 

[TCHB]

Does the name Robert Simms ring a bell to you, I worked with him mostly on the Renewable side of AES. But he also consulted to the Power Plant side. We worked together on the AES Transformer Specs. I will say the AES plants where maintained alot better than the others, like NRG and _____________________.

At SCE, I pretty much know / worked with everyone in the Apparatus Engineering & Maintenance for over 20 years. Hell it was sad day when the pretty much disbanded the “San Dimas Generation Engineering group”.

From what I have seen the GSU’s have not been upgraded or replaced and they have been ran hard very hard. I forget owned the plant in El Segundo, but they ran there GSU’s at full capacity when 3 out of 5 cooling pumps (FOA design) where not working. They abused there assets. Hell they had 50 gallon drums under the “leaks” to catch the oil dripping out of the transformer, and just pump that dripped oil right back into when the drum would get close to full.. .WHAT COULD GO WRONG… lets put contaminated oil back into a GSU running at 100%, and who cares about the moisture content or why even run a DGA, its just gonna tell us it needs maintenance.

Ormand Beach was a great plant when SCE owned it, but the moment it was sold off, DOWN HILL fast.

I could keep going. But what I have seen, most run there assets with a minimal maintenance $$$, and rarely keep maintenance supervisor for 3 years. They typically quit within that time frame. But what do I know, I only worked in the industry for 24 years.

The reason they went downhill fast because the PPA did not pay much. It was that way after SCE decided it was going to sell the plants. Ormond Beach could not compete in the market where plants had better heat rates and could start up much quicker. I worked in for SCE and AES for 38 years.

 

[TCHB]

Robert Simms does not ring a bell. I know Jeff Gibbons VP of World Services.