Titanic Tour Submarine Missing.

[retaocleg]

OceanGate CEO admitted sub was made with carbon fibre from plane past shelf life

OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush reportedly said that the carbon fibre used for the vessel's hull came at a "big discount" from Boeing as it was past its aeroplane shelf life

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[4Waters]

The fuckery used to Mickey Mouse this thing together just keeps getting better:

MSN

Hey man, Mickey's subs never imploded

 

[hallett21]

OceanGate CEO admitted sub was made with carbon fibre from plane past shelf life

OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush reportedly said that the carbon fibre used for the vessel's hull came at a "big discount" from Boeing as it was past its aeroplane shelf life

www.mirror.co.uk

Well there ya go lol.

You really can’t help but laugh. This guy was just the typical “I don’t wanna hear it” client.

I’m surprised he found an engineer willing to work with him.

 

[OLDRAAT]

Killed himself, others and devastated multiple families due to an overinflated ego.

IMO every employee of the company are going to be unemployed soon. Shame he didn't hire a few of the older, knowledgeable individuals having documented experience with submersibles. He would most likely would have succeeded.

 

[outboard_256]

I can’t remember what video it was but the CEO says that the submarine community said carbon fiber and titanium couldn’t be done.

Anyone know why? My guess is because carbon fiber holds, until it doesn’t. Vs metals bending/flexing

Saw this video and he talks about the carbon fiber vs steel/ti

 

[Mr. C]

Ironically, Bill Paxton was on James Cameron's short list to find refuge in his sub- terranian bomb shelter, hundreds of feet below L.A.

Hmm. Watching something earlier. And. It seems from that the whole curse of the hope diamond thing. Well it was never even on the ship.

 

[4Waters]

'Presumed human remains' found with evidence recovered from Titan wreckage site, Coast Gua

"Presumed human remains" were found after the Titan submersible imploded during its underwater descent to explore the site of the Titanic shipwreck.

news4sanantonio.com

 

[Mr. C]

 

[4Waters]

 

[alohajeff]

OceanGate CEO admitted sub was made with carbon fibre from plane past shelf life

OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush reportedly said that the carbon fibre used for the vessel's hull came at a "big discount" from Boeing as it was past its aeroplane shelf life

www.mirror.co.uk

We used to buy the timed out stuff from local (Torrance) Aerospace companies. It was still much better quality at the nearly free-fifty-free pricing than what we could purchase from a supplier. The age of the material in this case is only a very small part of the failure but it shows a pattern of the Here's How I'll Save a Buck and cut corners attitude toward the build.

Bringing the pieces back up...

OceanGate CEO’s chilling words revealed as Titan sub company shuts down

Debris from the imploded Titan submersible was recovered from the ocean floor last week

www.independent.co.uk

Aloha

 

[rrrr]

This is the titanium ring that was bonded by epoxy to the forward end of the carbon fiber tube. You can see the mounting boss for the door hinge on the upper right quadrant. There is no visible evidence of any carbon fiber, and the door has separated.

As I noted in a post above, the different coefficients of contraction between the carbon fiber and titanium was a likely point of failure.

This view shows the hinge boss on the door, the ring has the same mounting pad for the other side of the hinge.

 

[Bajastu]

I noticed that the portal window is missing. Maybe that was the failure point or it was blown out when it imploded.

 

[rrrr]

I noticed that the portal window is missing. Maybe that was the failure point or it was blown out when it imploded. View attachment 1247127

It's interesting that the machined and bolted porthole retention ring is missing, and that the door was apparently blown off of the titanium mating ring I posted above. The bolt holes on the door appear to be intact, meaning the bolts probably failed in tension and the threaded portion remains in the ring.

You can also see the failed hinge in the lower left quadrant. The bracket that engaged the over center linkage which provided the initial seal on the door (before it was bolted in place) is 180° opposite the hinge in the upper right quadrant.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Human Remains - assume as expected. Their bodies would have extremely compressed with the apparent implosion. But, not vaporize. DNA will likely be ran on their remains. Perhaps providing further closure to the family’s. R.I.P.

 

[rivrrts429]

Human Remains - assume as expected. Their bodies would have extremely compressed with the apparent implosion. But, not vaporize. DNA will likely be ran on their remains. Perhaps providing further closure to the family’s. R.I.P.

I imagine the “remains” are consistent with ground beef. That pressure had to be immense.

 

[92562]

Not sure if anyone else mentioned this yet but isn't it odd that there doesn't appear to be many forward facing lights? Every other deep water sub or ROV I remember seeing has a huge array of lights giving almost 180 degree visibility. What could they have even seen out of that porthole?

 

[Rajobigguy]

Human Remains - assume as expected. Their bodies would have extremely compressed with the apparent implosion. But, not vaporize. DNA will likely be ran on their remains. Perhaps providing further closure to the family’s. R.I.P.

I would not expect that there will be much in the way of human remains. The sudden application of over 5000 psi would be like putting a bug inside a diesel cylinder and cranking the engine over (only much more intense).
The sudden pressure would literally ignite the fatty tissue in the body . There wouldn’t be enough O2 for sustained combustion but their body’s would explode.

 

[stephenkatsea]

I would not expect that there will be much in the way of human remains. The sudden application of over 5000 psi would be like putting a bug inside a diesel cylinder and cranking the engine over (only much more intense).
The sudden pressure would literally ignite the fatty tissue in the body . There wouldn’t be enough O2 for sustained combustion but their body’s would explode.

USCG reported on Wednesday, ‘presumed human remains’ had been recovered. I guess time will tell. Not sure if anything else down there would resemble human remains. Believe there’s been no mention, as yet, of any carbon fiber remnants.

 

[SeanRitchie]

I would imagine there would be plenty of bone leftover. Maybe some hair. It would depend on how well contained the "contents" of the capsule were during the event. I thought I saw a picture of a somewhat in tact section of what looked like the main capsule.

I don't know that this thing completely vaporized as many believe it would have.

I am no expert, but I pretend to be one on the internet. My uneducated thoughts are that there would be some sort of implosion that would crumple the most forgiving parts, but once water was allowed to enter the capsule and equalize the pressure, the majority of the hardware would be somewhat in tact (which is what I have seen in a few of the photos. What ever soft contents are inside would then be crushed by the pressure of the water.

I do understand the idea that the inner chamber could become a compression chamber and explode, but that would also depend on how fast the water fills the chamber once a hole opens up. It may not have been the explosion that some of the submarine experts have explained it.

Think about a cardboard toilet paper tube with hard end caps. The end caps will not crush under pressure, but eventually there will be a tear in the cardboard tube during the compression (implosion) that would then allow the pressure to equalize.

The only scenario that I envision a rapid implosion, followed by explosion would be if the entire vessel if made of materials that would compress inwards without tearing a hole anywhere. This is where the inner chamber would then compress the air to the point of ignition and explosion outwards.

 

[MPHSystems]

 

[JDKRXW]

View attachment 1247607

And to think people were laughing at the owner for using one.

 

[Nordie]

View attachment 1247607

I heard that's a photoshop, but I think it would be crazy if the controller really did survive. There's really no photos of any remains, so I doubt there would be a picture of a controller on the sea floor.

Honestly thinking about it, I think it would actually survive relatively intact.

 

[MPHSystems]

I heard that's a photoshop, but I think it would be crazy if the controller really did survive. There's really no photos of any remains, so I doubt there would be a picture of a controller on the sea floor.

Honestly thinking about it, I think it would actually survive relatively intact.

Oh, I’m pretty sure it’s photoshopped or some random pic of a controller on the ocean floor. Still funny though

 

[Nordie]

I've followed this guy for years, kind of an interesting video. I bet he got it pretty close to what happened

 

[OCMerrill]

The Carbon fiber cylinder was 5" thick however the titanium end caps were basically bonded (glued) on.
No titanium through rods bolting both ends together like a typical hyd cylinder. The cylinder was not deeply imbedded into the end caps either.

Human remains seem to be of various opinions. I stand by my original opinion that there is noting discernable and the crew was gone instantly.
We'll all have to wait and see what's proven on that one.

The Media just says what it wants and is as reliable as our actual government.

 

[WYRD]

I've followed this guy for years, kind of an interesting video. I bet he got it pretty close to what happened

That guy sounds like a real life gru

 

[RiverDave]

I would imagine there would be plenty of bone leftover. Maybe some hair. It would depend on how well contained the "contents" of the capsule were during the event. I thought I saw a picture of a somewhat in tact section of what looked like the main capsule.

I don't know that this thing completely vaporized as many believe it would have.

I am no expert, but I pretend to be one on the internet. My uneducated thoughts are that there would be some sort of implosion that would crumple the most forgiving parts, but once water was allowed to enter the capsule and equalize the pressure, the majority of the hardware would be somewhat in tact (which is what I have seen in a few of the photos. What ever soft contents are inside would then be crushed by the pressure of the water.

I do understand the idea that the inner chamber could become a compression chamber and explode, but that would also depend on how fast the water fills the chamber once a hole opens up. It may not have been the explosion that some of the submarine experts have explained it.

Think about a cardboard toilet paper tube with hard end caps. The end caps will not crush under pressure, but eventually there will be a tear in the cardboard tube during the compression (implosion) that would then allow the pressure to equalize.

The only scenario that I envision a rapid implosion, followed by explosion would be if the entire vessel if made of materials that would compress inwards without tearing a hole anywhere. This is where the inner chamber would then compress the air to the point of ignition and explosion outwards.

My thoughts exactly.. if it had a failure point and flooded quickly it wasn’t an implosion. If the port window gave in it would shred the boat but there would be evidence still..

 

[Boatles]

My thoughts exactly.. if it had a failure point and flooded quickly it wasn’t an implosion. If the port window gave in it would shred the boat but there would be evidence still..

Nah, at that depth failure of the porthole or the hull would’ve meant catastrophic and instantaneous failure

 

[stephenkatsea]

Is the recovery completed? Seems unlikely? As of 3 minutes ago, the Horizon Arctic was in the port of Bay Bulls, a Newfoundland port south of St John’s. The ROV deployed from the Horizon Arctic recovered the pieces seen recently, as they were off loaded in St John’s.

 

[RiverDave]

Nah, at that depth failure of the porthole or the hull would’ve meant catastrophic and instantaneous failure

Then how is there human remains?

 

[stephenkatsea]

USCG spoke of ‘presumed human remains’. Don’t recall status of those remains at the time of sighting and/or recovery was mentioned. And that’s understandable. Again, it’s a wait and see. News media facts are often questionable. Particularly when they’re presumptive.

 

[RVR SWPR]

That tube did not disintegrate in a millisecond and turn to dust. Those guys had a few seconds of the worst terror a human could experience. Will never understand Rush literally glued composite to titanium with a squeegee expecting and planning years of dives to 12k.

 

[stephenkatsea]

View attachment 1248130
That tube did not disintegrate in a millisecond and turn to dust. Those guys had a few seconds of the worst terror a human could experience. Will never understand Rush literally glued composite to titanium with a squeegee expecting and planning years of dives to 12k.

Remnants of the tube will explain a lot, when they are found. As yet, believe there’s been no mention of sighting or recovery of any portions of the tube. Associated equipment, yes. But, I believe not the carbon fiber tube, which contained the people.

 

[Taboma]

I heard that's a photoshop, but I think it would be crazy if the controller really did survive. There's really no photos of any remains, so I doubt there would be a picture of a controller on the sea floor.

Honestly thinking about it, I think it would actually survive relatively intact.

Nile Crocodile is said to have a bite force of 5,000 psi, but I'd guess that's way more PSI than the weight of an elephants foot, which I'd imagine could crush a game controller if it stood on it ??

 

[Boatles]

Then how is there human remains?

Hamburger-like meat on the debris brought up is all that’s likely left. Bones could remain but how would they be brought up in the large pieces recovered?

 

[traquer]

Hamburger-like meat on the debris brought up is all that’s likely left. Bones could remain but how would they be brought up in the large pieces recovered?

Any specs of meat would get torn up in minutes/hours. Lots of hungry critters down there.

 

[rrrr]

View attachment 1248130
That tube did not disintegrate in a millisecond and turn to dust. Those guys had a few seconds of the worst terror a human could experience. Will never understand Rush literally glued composite to titanium with a squeegee expecting and planning years of dives to 12k.

That's a photo of the steel lower and rear cage structure of the sub, not the carbon fiber pressure hull. It supported oxygen tanks, batteries, electrical distribution, and other mechanical/electrical systems. Those remains were mostly incompressible items.

The tube was almost certainly reduced to fragments by the implosion. This would have been an inconceiveably violent event. I saw OceanGate's chief engineer state on video the cumulative load on the tube and titanium ends comprising the pressure hull was in excess of 150 million pounds. That's roughly the weight of 750 fully loaded railroad boxcars.

Regarding the human remains of the sub's occupants, recall that computations indicate the collapse of the 56" interior diameter of the sub's pressure hull occurred in about two milliseconds. An IndyCar going 220 MPH travels about four inches in that amount of time. The human body is about 70% water, and bones aren't solid structures. They're a calcium honeycomb, and about 30% water. So imagine a 150,000,000 lb force acting on that composition of liquids, soft tissue, and some bones. That any recognizable human feature survived the implosion is realistically impossible.

The failure mode I'm envisioning, and have not seen postulated, involved a compression failure of the tube from either or both ends. The tube was laid up axially on a rotating mandrel with longitudinally stranded carbon fiber. The placement head moved back and forth along the length of the mandrel like a fishing reel winds line, depositing layers of the strands. The individual CF strands were of almost continuous length with staggered ends as they were wound, overlapping as the layers built up.

The pressure hull relied on the tensile strength of the fibers to resist the uniform compressive forces of the seawater on its circumferential surface. But the compressive forces applied to the tube by the titanium ends was an entirely different matter.

The titanium semispherical ends of the tube were about 62" in diameter and 40% of a full sphere. Using the formula A=4πr² to calculate the area of a sphere and multiplying by .40, each end had about 4,800 square inches of area. That times two is 9,600, multiply that by the 4,125 lbs/sq in of force at the depth of failure (about 9,400'), and that equals 39,600,000 lbs of axial pressure on the tube.

The axially laid carbon fiber strands were being compressed at a 90° angle to their longitudinal orientation. If one looked at this on a macro level, there was nothing between those strands along the entire length of the tube except resin.

Was this the mechanism of failure? Did those compressive forces collapse the CF strands suspended in resin? I don't know. But it certainly seems plausible. The evidence might show up in the carbon fiber debris. If it's found the fragments significantly contain intact lengths of carbon fiber strands, that's a clue. If the fragments are small and contain mostly short fractured strands, that might indicate the tube collapsed from circumferential loads.

 

[stephenkatsea]

It appears no other DSV has attempted to carry people in carbon fiber structures.

 

[SoCalDave]

Nile Crocodile is said to have a bite force of 5,000 psi, but I'd guess that's far less PSI than the weight of an elephants foot, which I'd imagine could crush a game controller if it stood on it ??

And at 380 degree...

 

[calkid]

That's a photo of the steel lower and rear cage structure of the sub, not the carbon fiber pressure hull. It supported oxygen tanks, batteries, electrical distribution, and other mechanical/electrical systems. Those remains were mostly incompressible items.

The tube was almost certainly reduced to fragments by the implosion. This would have been an inconceiveably violent event. I saw OceanGate's chief engineer state on video the cumulative load on the tube and titanium ends comprising the pressure hull was in excess of 150 million pounds. That's roughly the weight of 750 fully loaded railroad boxcars.

Regarding the human remains of the sub's occupants, recall that computations indicate the collapse of the 56" interior diameter of the sub's pressure hull occurred in about two milliseconds. An IndyCar going 220 MPH travels about four inches in that amount of time. The human body is about 70% water, and bones aren't solid structures. They're a calcium honeycomb, and about 30% water. So imagine a 150,000,000 lb force acting on that composition of liquids, soft tissue, and some bones. That any recognizable human feature survived the implosion is realistically impossible.

The failure mode I'm envisioning, and have not seen postulated, involved a compression failure of the tube from either or both ends. The tube was laid up axially on a rotating mandrel with longitudinally stranded carbon fiber. The placement head moved back and forth along the length of the mandrel like a fishing reel winds line, depositing layers of the strands. The individual CF strands were of almost continuous length with staggered ends as they were wound, overlapping as the layers built up.

The pressure hull relied on the tensile strength of the fibers to resist the uniform compressive forces of the seawater on its circumferential surface. But the compressive forces applied to the tube by the titanium ends was an entirely different matter.

The titanium semispherical ends of the tube were about 62" in diameter and 40% of a full sphere. Using the formula A=4πr² to calculate the area of a sphere and multiplying by .40, each end had about 4,800 square inches of area. That times two is 9,600, multiply that by the 4,125 lbs/sq in of force at the depth of failure (about 9,400'), and that equals 39,600,000 lbs of axial pressure on the tube.

The axially laid carbon fiber strands were being compressed at a 90° angle to their longitudinal orientation. If one looked at this on a macro level, there was nothing between those strands along the entire length of the tube except resin.

Was this the mechanism of failure? Did those compressive forces collapse the CF strands suspended in resin? I don't know. But it certainly seems plausible. The evidence might show up in the carbon fiber debris. If it's found the fragments significantly contain intact lengths of carbon fiber strands, that's a clue. If the fragments are small and contain mostly short fractured strands, that might indicate the tube collapsed from circumferential loads.

That's a very interesting perspective. The "cylinder" being rotationally fabricated would give it strength for side load but the end load may not have been calculated correctly. Since the carbon fiber was applied rotationally, the resin seems to be keeping the cylinder from collapse. Adding any moment load to the mix would certainly complete the equation. You are definitely on to something here.

 

[RVR SWPR]

RRRR,believe it i do read your info thru the years,we both along with many others @RDP go back to 12/19/07. Reading your post just now indicates the same info or knowledge is / was available to everyone signing off on THAT submersible,wtf were those people thinking?
FWIW,i did not intend to put out some idea that composite tube in any way survived,right now at my age i’m glad to be reading posts much less writing posts.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Interesting to note, perhaps the most famous oceanographer of our times was Jacque Cousteau. He did invent SCUBA. When it came to ocean exploration, it really wasn’t the deep ocean. Most remember his surface vessel, the Calypso. But, how many recall his submarine, Denise. That sub’s depth limit was only 1,300 feet. He likely successfully sold more of his explorations, thru National Geographic Society etc, than even Cameron or Ballard. Manned DSVs - The Mariana’s Trench/Challenger Deep was first visited by man in 1960. They used a full titanium sphere to house the people, much like the numerous, successful Deep Submergence Vessels of today. What has advanced tremendously is ROV (tethered) and AUV (untethered) capabilities. Each are unmanned and keep people out of harms way. 58 years separate the Wright Brothers first flight from the first manned space flight, 1903-61. Yet, 63 years separate man first visiting the deepest part of the ocean from today’s deep water explorations, 1960-2023. Much of the deep water methods remain the same.

How many realize even most modern day torpedoes are a sort of ROV? They are ‘wire guided’ (tethered). There are MANY thousands of miles of that tiny wire laying about on the ocean bottoms.

How did the victims of the Titan perish? It’s somewhat like coming upon a charred, totally demolished, 5 person, solo vehicle wreck, in the middle of the desert. What was the actual cause of their deaths?

DSV regulation. It is an industry which, prior to OceanGate, had successfully self regulated for many years. They bring in expert ‘classification societies’. A fancy term for expert regulatory organizations. Not typically the USCG. Although the USCG may have some jurisdiction over the surface support ship, I do not believe they deal with submersibles. Perhaps the near surface subs which carry passengers for hire?

May the victims of the Titan, R.I.P. Given time, most, if not all of the current questions and speculations will be answered. The international deep submergence community will demand it.

 

[OCMerrill]

Will never understand Rush literally glued composite to titanium with a squeegee expecting and planning years of dives to 12k.

Like spreading bondo on a car fender.

Back when I had Injection Molding Machines, all those hydraulic cylinders I was constantly rebuilding and the struggle to align the threaded rods to bolt the endcaps on... Shit, I could have just used that glue. It was only a couple thousand PSI. Damn 1980's had no such technology.

I think their 3 previous Titanic dives were good old-fashioned calculated luck and this Dive was that unfortunate but inevitable outcome.

Sad deal all the way around but hopefully allot learned from their tragic demise.

 

[stephenkatsea]

A quick internet search turned up USCG regs for subs carrying passengers for hire. They were dated July, 1993. 30 years old. Are there more current USCG regs? I don’t know.

 

[spectra3279]

It's quite possible that the resin holding the end caps on failed. There was no groove it fit in, there was no inner ring to sandwich the carbon fiber between. It was just an outer titanium ring glued to the outside of a carbon fiber tube.

 

[jet496]

Crazy thing is the sub doesn't matter anymore. I just clicked on ABC News & not one headline. How can that be with the amount of attention it was getting?

Answer: Hunter was vindicated during that news blitz so next. I mean some dumbasses go down in a submarine they ordered from a comic book just wouldn't make news normally. especially since they already knew it exploded, but needed to be big news for a week. Wait, wait! Look up in the sky...LOL. Peeps are all so gullible.

 

[stephenkatsea]

It’s very possible to observe both the Hunter Biden news and the Titan reports. But, how many did that . . . . . ?

 

[Mr. C]

 

[LHC Kirby]

 

[Mandelon]

I read that the mission had some "issues" and were trying to come back up when the tragedy occurred. I imagine the carbon fiber was making some disturbing noises? Is there a transcript of the last communications with the vessel?