Tesla Continues to collapse.

[LargeOrangeFont]

sure- agreed if you brick the car you are fucked.

This isnt windows 10 though - and it doesn't have to know what 10 year old printer or how to drive an 8 year old open GL board.

As it stands to today Im down half a day at minimum every time I need an update with Nissan or honda.

Ill take my chances on an occasional brick vs a 100% trip to the dealer.

My iPhone does not have to deal with old crap either, yet it still fails to work properly sometimes.

I agree, it is not going to be a constant problem, and by and large it is an improvement. But in software small bugs can cause huge problems.

3 of the 4 cars at my house as are 2015 and newer. I’ve never had them to the dealer for updates.

I actually don’t want to take my commuter car in ever if I can avoid it because I heard they deleted the hidden menu that let’s all the touchscreen features work while driving.

 

[Uncle Dave]

My iPhone does not have to deal with old crap either, yet it still fails to work properly sometimes.

I agree, it is not going to be a constant problem, and by and large it is an improvement. But in software small bugs can cause huge problems.

3 of the 4 cars at my house as are 2015 and newer. I’ve never had them to the dealer for updates.

I actually don’t want to take my commuter car in ever if I can avoid it because I heard they deleted the hidden menu that let’s all the touchscreen features work while driving.

Its all a bitch.

lucky you, My 04 titan is having ABS issues.
- and my ridglines declined the thumb drive update Ive tried to make the maps work, but thats hardly critical -
the ABS brake thing has been a real problem.

I get the " fuck anti lock brakes" sentiment as all Im getting from Nissan are weasel words like - "this is the next step after the reflash."

Given I tow my own and other high dollar toy worth far more than the vehicle itself that part of the rig has to be right.

UD

 

[SBMech]

Tesla on Autopilot hits parked emergency vehicle; no, this is not a repeat from last month

A Tesla Model S allegedly being driven on Autopilot crashed into a parked police vehicle in the city of Laguna Beach, California, earlier this week. The driver of the Tesla suffered minor injuries, and fortunately no one was in the police car at the time. Both vehicles suffered extensive damage, and photos of the crash scene posted on social media by the Laguna Beach Police Department showed that most, if not all, airbags inside the Model S had deployed. The driver told the responding officers on the scene that the Model S was in Autopilot mode at the time.

Photos from the scene indicate that the Model S delivered a glancing impact to the rear left quarter and side of the police car with its front right fender, causing damage to the sides of both vehicles.

The apparent Autopilot-involved crash adds to a string of incidents in which Teslas operated on Autopilot have crashed into the backs of emergency vehicles parked on the shoulder or stopped in a traffic lane.


Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/autonom...nother-parked-emergency-vehicle#ixzz5H5s2Ps3G

Man they are having some real problems with the Autopilot hitting emergency vehicles.....scary.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Its all a bitch.

lucky you, My 04 titan is having ABS issues.
- and my ridglines declined the thumb drive update Ive tried to make the maps work, but thats hardly critical -
the ABS brake thing has been a real problem.

I get the " fuck anti lock brakes" sentiment as all Im getting from Nissan are weasel words like - "this is the next step after the reflash."

Given I tow my own and other high dollar toy worth far more than the vehicle itself that part of the rig has to be right.

UD

What is wrong with the ABS? non functional? Over functional?

I'm a believer in modern 4 channel ABS. The stuff from the early 90s, was marginal at best. If my race car had it I'd be a second or faster or more per lap.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Tesla on Autopilot hits parked emergency vehicle; no, this is not a repeat from last month

A Tesla Model S allegedly being driven on Autopilot crashed into a parked police vehicle in the city of Laguna Beach, California, earlier this week. The driver of the Tesla suffered minor injuries, and fortunately no one was in the police car at the time. Both vehicles suffered extensive damage, and photos of the crash scene posted on social media by the Laguna Beach Police Department showed that most, if not all, airbags inside the Model S had deployed. The driver told the responding officers on the scene that the Model S was in Autopilot mode at the time.

Photos from the scene indicate that the Model S delivered a glancing impact to the rear left quarter and side of the police car with its front right fender, causing damage to the sides of both vehicles.

The apparent Autopilot-involved crash adds to a string of incidents in which Teslas operated on Autopilot have crashed into the backs of emergency vehicles parked on the shoulder or stopped in a traffic lane.


Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/autonom...nother-parked-emergency-vehicle#ixzz5H5s2Ps3G

Man they are having some real problems with the Autopilot hitting emergency vehicles.....scary.

Perhaps the car has a seizure from the flashing lights

I bet something with the reflective stickers and flashing lights on emergency vehicles is fooling the sensors on the car.

 

[pronstar]

I'm a believer in modern 4 channel ABS. The stuff from the early 90s, was marginal at best. If my race car had it I'd be a second or faster or more per lap.

Yup.
The only places ABS isn't better, are off-pavement and deep snow.
Unless you're in one of these situations, no human is going to out-brake a modern ABS equipped car.

 

[Uncle Dave]

I was not implying that Tesla used electronic brakes, I was stating that they are already using them in certain racing/R&D applications, it's coming eventually. Just like drive by wire.

What is wrong with the ABS? non functional? Over functional?

I'm a believer in modern 4 channel ABS. The stuff from the early 90s, was marginal at best. If my race car had it I'd be a second or faster or more per lap.

At rare unpredictable times the pedal goes to the floor and the system just buzzes accompanied by a dash light.

Then upon restart it goes away. Totally random - no predictability.

Im a fan as well - ABS has helped us WAAY more than its hurt - but damm its expensive.

system threw a code for a booster and software - we did the Sw upgrade and it still happened 2 weeks later (while loaded with 1500LB of tile) so I just did the booster - I want a dealer involved fin case of a serious problem - so Im paying their rate and getting raped vs doing it myself.

UD

 

[pronstar]

At rare unpredictable times the pedal goes to the floor and the system just buzzes accompanied by a dash light.

Then upon restart it goes away. Totally random - no predictability.

ABS has helped us WAAY more than its hurt - but damm its expensive.

The braking system is still hydraulic.

IMHO if you have a pedal that goes to the floor, it’s a hydraulic braking system issue, not an ABS issue...?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

At rare unpredictable times the pedal goes to the floor and the system just buzzes accompanied by a dash light.

Then upon restart it goes away. Totally random - no predictability.

ABS has helped us WAAY more than its hurt - but damm its expensive.

That is a bummer. Is it a separate control unit that controls the brakes?

Edit - Just saw your pics. It looks as if that electronic piece behind the ABS manifold and motor is the brake controller. Perhaps trying one of those off of another vehicle and either installing new sensors/ and or cleaning everything and checking the gaps on the reluctor wheels at each corner of the vehicle.

Did the brake booster help or solve the problem? I would not think so based on your symptoms.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The braking system is still hydraulic.

IMHO if you have a pedal that goes to the floor, it’s a hydraulic braking system issue, not an ABS issue...?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

No because the ABS motor is activating braking at that moment, which is further downstream in the hydraulic system. If he pulled the ABS fuse deactivating the system, he would probably never have that problem again, but would also not have ABS.

If the ABS motor is activating the brakes, the pedal wont really do anything, it would go to the floor.

 

[Uncle Dave]

That is a bummer. Is it a separate control unit that controls the brakes?

Yes and the booster isnt just an old school vac booster it is a multi channel affair (pic above)

I should clarify that when " on the floor and buzzing" - you have no brakes AT ALL is like docking with soyuz.

Its as though the ABS channel is preventing any slowdown in rotation.

 

[SBMech]

UD the system could possibly be running a self diagnostic check at the wrong time, early GM products did this for a while before they worked out the bugs.

The ABS pump has complete control over how the system uses the fluid, it can release the pressure at the wrong time causing you to loose the pedal, IE the infamous GM problems in the 90's. If it thinks the wheels are locking it will modulate the pressure and yep, the pedal hits the floor.

I hope you get it sorted out, that shit is scary.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Yes and the booster isnt just an old school vac booster it is a multi channel affair (pic above)

I should clarify that when " on the floor and buzzing" - you have no brakes AT ALL is like docking with soyuz.

Its as though the ABS channel is preventing any slowdown in rotation.

That to me sounds like a sensor or abs controller issue. It thinks a wheel(s) are locked.

I'd pull the ABS fuse until you know it is fixed.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Tesla on Autopilot hits parked emergency vehicle; no, this is not a repeat from last month

A Tesla Model S allegedly being driven on Autopilot crashed into a parked police vehicle in the city of Laguna Beach, California, earlier this week. The driver of the Tesla suffered minor injuries, and fortunately no one was in the police car at the time. Both vehicles suffered extensive damage, and photos of the crash scene posted on social media by the Laguna Beach Police Department showed that most, if not all, airbags inside the Model S had deployed. The driver told the responding officers on the scene that the Model S was in Autopilot mode at the time.

Photos from the scene indicate that the Model S delivered a glancing impact to the rear left quarter and side of the police car with its front right fender, causing damage to the sides of both vehicles.

The apparent Autopilot-involved crash adds to a string of incidents in which Teslas operated on Autopilot have crashed into the backs of emergency vehicles parked on the shoulder or stopped in a traffic lane.


Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/autonom...nother-parked-emergency-vehicle#ixzz5H5s2Ps3G

Man they are having some real problems with the Autopilot hitting emergency vehicles.....scary.

Maybe - lets see where his hands were at the time of the accident.

You are instructed to drive with your hands on the wheel at all times - almost all the accidents happen when the driver has his hands off the wheel.

It will be interesting to see what the car says - and Im guessing the flashes would likely have a negative effect.

Thing like cameras that watch lanes have limited dynamic range - my honda wont lane track driving nearly as well when driving into the sun

UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

That to me sounds like a sensor or abs controller issue. It thinks a wheel(s) are locked.

I'd pull the ABS fuse until you know it is fixed.

After 1253 bones on an 04 truck under 100K miles the thing better be fixed, but yeah - thats the next step is to just disable it completely.

 

[SBMech]

Maybe - lets see where his hands were at the time of the accident.

You are instructed to drive with your hands on the wheel at all times - almost all the accidents happen when the driver has his hands off the wheel.

It will be interesting to see what the car says - and Im guessing the flashes would likely have a negative effect.

Thing like cameras that watch lanes have limited dynamic range - my honda wont lane track driving nearly as well when driving into the sun

UD

I would be willing to bet that in ALL of the Autopilot crashes, no one had their hands on the wheel.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Maybe - lets see where his hands were at the time of the accident.

You are instructed to drive with your hands on the wheel at all times - almost all the accidents happen when the driver has his hands off the wheel.

It will be interesting to see what the car says - and Im guessing the flashes would likely have a negative effect.

Thing like cameras that watch lanes have limited dynamic range - my honda wont lane track driving nearly as well when driving into the sun

UD

I am certain the guy's hands were off the wheel.

My thought is that a certain amount of reflection and glare is "ignored" in the software for autopilot. It would have to be or the car would be darting all over the place driving reacting to changes in light.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

After 1253 bones on an 04 truck under 100K miles the thing better be fixed, but yeah - thats the next step is to just disable it completely.

I'd do some sanity checking at each corner, of the truck and also maybe some parts shopping on EBAY for a new(used) ABS controller before I shelled out more dealer money. That said, there are not THAT many parts to an ABS system.

 

[Uncle Dave]

I would be willing to bet that in ALL of the Autopilot crashes, no one had their hands on the wheel.

So far thats been this case in all but one.

In one case the guy stuck an orange in the wheel spokes to fool it into thinking it was being held.

My Ridgeline has both lane departure warning and lane keeping assist - I never take my hands off the wheel - just old school that way.

 

[Uncle Dave]

I am certain the guy's hands were off the wheel.

My thought is that a certain amount of reflection and glare is "ignored" in the software for autopilot. It would have to be or the car would be darting all over the place driving reacting to changes in light.

Yeah there is a smoothing algorithm in there for sure, but there there are lots of things that can snafu the system - one being a dirty sensor or camera. Ill dig up a pict of an are where the honda system completely failed and show you.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

So far thats been this case in all but one.

In one case the guy stuck an orange in the wheel spokes to fool it into thinking it was being held.

My Ridgeline has both lane departure warning and lane keeping assist - I never take my hands off the wheel - just old school that way.

I will be the devils advocate here... It is not autopilot until there is no steering wheel, or I am not required to hold it.

 

[Uncle Dave]

The honda wanted to pull to the right lane here and would have done it on its own had I not had my hand on the wheel. Id say the system works well 97% of the time.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The honda wanted to pull to the right lane here and would have done it on its own had I not had my hand on the wheel. Id say the system works well 97% of the time. View attachment 650261

Think it saw that other striping on the road and wanted to center itself?

 

[Uncle Dave]

I will be the devils advocate here... It is not autopilot until there is no steering wheel, or I am not required to hold it.

I agree

Its "assisted steering and distance following" Level 2 automation - not 3 or 4.

Autopilot is a misnomer.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Think it saw that other striping on the road and wanted to center itself?

Yup.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Yup.

This brings up an entire other discussion about how all the streets and freeways in populated areas will need to be full prepped and maintained to support fully autonomous cars.

 

[Uncle Dave]

The bummer here is that the assist features are superb when used as directed and We all risk having them squashed because morons cant follow the directions and then blame the cars.

If you were to measure the steering force input you apply during a 500 mile drive you'd be astonished at the work you have to put it.

These level II systems can reduce that approximately 80-90 % net result is you arrive much fresher.

Or you can fuck around and try push it over and over / sleep / jump in the backseat and take a video and when you play stupid games you end up with stupid outcomes.

 

[Uncle Dave]

UD the system could possibly be running a self diagnostic check at the wrong time, early GM products did this for a while before they worked out the bugs.

The ABS pump has complete control over how the system uses the fluid, it can release the pressure at the wrong time causing you to loose the pedal, IE the infamous GM problems in the 90's. If it thinks the wheels are locking it will modulate the pressure and yep, the pedal hits the floor.

I hope you get it sorted out, that shit is scary.

Yeah I thought that as well - no.

Its a known problem with the early year Titan and Armada and there has been a class action suit brought to Nissan for Armada brake failures that are described the same way - random total failure then everything's OK.

The dealers have a series of steps to " fix" it - first being a SW upgrade then a series of new parts the booster being the big one.

I dont want used parts in the system because I dont know what Im getting but if they cant fix it I may go down that route.

UD

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Yeah I thought that as well - no.

Its a known problem with the early year Titan and Armada and there has been a class action suit brought to Nissan for Armada brake failures that are described the same way - random total failure then everything's OK.

The dealers have a series of steps to " fix" it - first being a SW upgrade then a series of new parts the booster being the big one.

I dont want used parts in the system because I dont know what Im getting but if they cant fix it I may go down that route.

UD

Ahh, I did not realize it was a widespread problem. I thought it was just an issue with your truck.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Got a call from the guy using the truck.....brake lights on again -pedal firm....

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The bummer here is that the assist features are superb when used as directed and We all risk having them squashed because morons cant follow the directions and then blame the cars.

If you were to measure the steering force input you apply during a 500 mile drive you'd be astonished at the work you have to put it.

These level II systems can reduce that approximately 80-90 % net result is you arrive much fresher.

Or you can fuck around and try push it over and over / sleep / jump in the backseat and take a video and when you play stupid games you end up with stupid outcomes.

They wont be squashed. They will put more tech and nannies in to make sure you are paying attention, eyes open and forward, and have hands on the wheel, driving up the costs further.

The problem is a human one. If driving the car no longer engages a person or engages them to a lesser degree, they get bored, gloss over and don't pay attention. They might as well be texting or otherwise impaired.

I for one have no desire to "drive" if the car is driving itself but I have my hands on the wheel, looking out the windshield like an idiot.

 

[Wicky]

Back to Tesla....Elon couldn't give a shit about Tesla cars right now...He is trying to get ready for a shit ton of new satellites to shoot up into space that he needs for all the new satellites to reach the sattelite phones we will all be using in the next 10 years so he will own virtually all communication.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Back to Tesla....Elon couldn't give a shit about Tesla cars right now...He is trying to get ready for a shit ton of new satellites to shoot up into space that he needs for all the new satellites to reach the sattelite phones we will all be using in the next 10 years so he will own virtually all communication.

I think he cares about it all. As one of the largest investors in both.

And I have no problem with him competing and winning here - just means more choice for us.

Next thing spacex will have a human rated capsule and rocket - no more hitching rides with the russians.

His capsule will also offer ejection safety in case the rocket explodes on the way up - which has never been done before.

TESLA just got a grip of new robotic stuff from Germany - thats supposed to help speed things up and I guess he registered 7500 vins last week.

3rd party data suggests the model 3 line is around 3500 a week now. still a ways off from the 5K he needs to meet his end if june commitment.

the guy certainly overpromises.

UD

 

[Wicky]

I think he cares about it all. As one of the largest investors in both.

And I have no problem with him competing and winning here - just means more choice for us.

Next thing spacex will have a human rated capsule and rocket - no more hitching rides with the russians.

His capsule will also offer ejection safety in case the rocket explodes on the way up - which has never been done before.

TESLA just got a grip of new robotic stuff from Germany - thats supposed to help speed things up and I guess he registered 7500 vins last week.

3rd party data suggests the model 3 line is around 3500 a week now. still a ways off from the 5K he needs to meet his end if june commitment.

the guy certainly overpromises.

UD

If he really gave two shits, he would only be focusing on one business that needs some serious attention. To over promise and under deliver is not the best business model and I could certainly do a way better job than he ever could....

 

[Wicky]

Now who is going to take my last statement seriously?

 

[pronstar]

Now who is going to take my last statement seriously?

I will.
Here's $50 billion, go make me a car and some rockets

 

[Wicky]

I will.
Here's $50 billion, go make me a car and some rockets

I'll need a few more zeros to turn trillions into billions lol. Remember, I have a boating habit.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Now who is going to take my last statement seriously?

Ill bet you could, as could I. (In the TV business there are no overpromises)

Its the building an empire in both verticals skill part Im missing..

What he has accomplished has never been done by either individuals, corporations, or entire governments.

UD

 

[Wicky]

Ill bet you could, as could I. (In the TV business there are no overpromises)

Its the building an empire in both verticals skill part Im missing..

What he has accomplished has never been done by either individuals, corporations, or entire governments.

UD

I used to be in the TV business!

 

[Uncle Dave]

I used to be in the TV business!

come on back - we need more good guys....

 

[SBMech]

A new report says 23 percent of Model 3 deposits were refunded; Tesla disputes the figure

Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/hybrid-...-3-deposits-were-refunded-tesla#ixzz5HmbFbCUZ

Uhh yea....wanted to buy a 30k car and got told it would be 80...I'd want my money back too!

 

[Uncle Dave]

Not that dates matter much to Elon but he said they'd start building the base model in Jan.

Interestingly he retained power - the stock popped up and the shorts lost over a billion on this.

They claim the model 3 is now the best selling car in the premium sedan space in America.

Looks like the BMW 3 series is the largest victim.

They could lose 23% of their booked orders and still have more than any car in the history of cars.

 

[Uncle Dave]

It also look like they are finally ramping the model 3


UD

 

[SBMech]

It also look like they are finally ramping the model 3


UD

View attachment 652470

Not that dates matter much to Elon but he said they'd start building the base model in Jan.

Interestingly he retained power - the stock popped up and the shorts lost over a billion on this.

They claim the model 3 is now the best selling car in the premium sedan space in America.

Looks like the BMW 3 series is the largest victim.

They could lose 23% of their booked orders and still have more than any car in the history of cars.


View attachment 652469

BMW
3-Series
2017 59.449
2016 70.458
2015 94.527
2014 100.790

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/bmw/bmw-3-series-4-series/bmw-3-series/

Uhh ok. They have not even MADE enough model 3's to compete with last years total.

"They claim the model 3 is now the best selling car in the premium sedan space in America."

Well in 9 months they have only built 34k, so at 3k a month they won't even surpass last years 3 series totals.

What you are comparing is apples to oranges, since BMW owners rise and decline on 3 year cycles, you know, lease ends etc.

"They could lose 23% of their booked orders and still have more than any car in the history of cars."

I'll bite Just because they have a shitload of preorders does not make up for the fact that Tesla under delivers, really I am surprised that he is not being tried right now for fraud.

It's illegal to take preorders for something and jack the price.

 

[Uncle Dave]

The comparison isnt to last years total cars -thats a global number anyway -

The comparison is what sold in America in that space -from Nov 17 -May 18.



UD

 

[SBMech]

The comparison isnt to last years total cars -thats a global number anyway -

The comparison is what sold in America in that space -from Nov 17 -May 18.



UD

The totals I gave are for America.

 

[Uncle Dave]

The totals I gave are for America.

Ok just in America- the numbers you posted are for a year correct?

Dont understand what you mean not apples to apples- either these guys sold and delivered more cars to the us in that space in that timeframe or not -

I don't understand why you'd say a lease cycle make it not fair comparison. Id guess half these cars are leased.

UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

Do you have competitive numbers in that space during that timeframe that disagree with Teslas?

UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/06/tesla-model-3-best-selling-midsize-premium-sedan/

Good article from Autoblog on it.
They seem to think its probably true.

UD

 

[SBMech]

Ok just in America- the numbers you posted are for a year correct?

Dont understand what you mean not apples to apples- either these guys sold and delivered more cars to the us in that space in that timeframe or not -

I don't understand why you'd say a lease cycle make it not fair comparison. Id guess half these cars are leased.

UD

The totals I quoted are from the last years of sales in the USA.

Do you have competitive numbers in that space during that timeframe that disagree with Teslas?

UD

It's apples to oranges since:

1. BMW has built millions of 3 series since 1975. They have market following Musk can only DREAM of ever matching and a remarkable history of racing and production few companies have ever matched.

2. I just listed sales numbers for the last year, for the months in 2018 the sales totals are 2k more average than Tesla even built, averaging 4k to 5k over the period from Jan to June. It is all listed in the link I provided.

Don't you think it's odd that Musk called it the "Model 3"? I am shocked he is not in a raging copyright lawsuit right now with BMW.

Pretty funny however, for such an "icon of industry" that his fawning sycophants don't realize he needed to piggyback on one of the most successful branding models in mid size vehicle history.