Tesla Continues to collapse.

[Sleek-Jet]

And FWIW Chevys EV’s are hideous. It’s as if their design team is intentionally making the cars look like Geo metros.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I test drove one, great little car. I don't get any breaks on Electricity so a plug-in doesn't save me any money.

But, I would he very surprised if an established car builder buys Tesla outright, at least before a bankruptcy sale.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Why? Other than the battery the big-3 are better at everything than Tesla is... and even the gap in battery technogy is closing.

Heck, you can go down right now and buy Chevy's version if the Model 3 (the Bolt), at a cheaper price point, better design and construction and equal performance. But GM isn't selling very many.

If Tesla were to get sold, they will most likely go to a Chinese manufacturer or conglomorate. The Chinese market for EVs is going be yuge, I mean really spectacular and beautiful, very much winning.

They are ahead in many areas - and woefully behind in others.

They dont have the controller tech, battery tech, motor tech, charging network, autonomous tech...

The biggest area they are behind is in actually making money on BEV's.
They have to subsidize the electric cars using profit from the ICE cars so everyone one they sell hurts their bottom line.

UD

 

[Nord]

Another profitable month for Tesla

 

[Uncle Dave]

Another profitable month for Tesla

I think you mean quarter? Yes it was.

By all rights many said/claimed it would be impossible.

Their EBItDA now matches or equals their larger competitors.

Model 3 sales just started in Europe, the build rate is up, build time per car is down, and labor cost is down.

They still have a long way to go and many challenges but their accomplishments have been impressive.

The semi, Y, and truck will be the next challenges.


UD

 

[Sleek-Jet]

They are ahead in many areas - and woefully behind in others.

They dont have the controller tech, battery tech, motor tech, charging network, autonomous tech...

The biggest area they are behind is in actually making money on BEV's.
They have to subsidize the electric cars using profit from the ICE cars so everyone one they sell hurts their bottom line.

UD

Still no reason Ford or GM would come riding to the rescue of Tesla.

The traditional car manufacturers produce electric cars because the government requires them to. They likely would be happy to let Tesla have such a small market. More reason that government regulation is bad for business.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I think you mean quarter? Yes it was.

By all rights many said/claimed it would be impossible.

Their EBItDA now matches or equals their larger competitors.

Model 3 sales just started in Europe, the build rate is up, build time per car is down, and labor cost is down.

They still have a long way to go and many challenges but their accomplishments have been impressive.

The semi, Y, and truck will be the next challenges.


UD

It does look like they squeaked over some sizeable hurdles.

 

[Uncle Dave]

It does look like they squeaked over some sizeable hurdles.

Including the hurdle of Elon keeping his mouth shut. (mostly)
Larry Ellison prob scruffed him about the neck from time to time.

UD

 

[Taboma]

All of the past/current EV/Hybrid vehicles have been terrible looking (even the Fiskers). Tesla finally did it right.

EDIT: Although, I'm not 100% a fan of the Model 3. The front looks cartoon'ish without anything where a grill would normally be. If I had one, I'd put a piece of black 3m (wrap) to follow the lines of where a grill would be.

I agree with that EDIT 100% --- put something there, it's like they got to that area on a Friday afternoon and said fuck-it and went home

 

[Uncle Dave]

I agree with that EDIT 100% --- put something there, it's like they got to that area on a Friday afternoon and said fuck-it and went home

Agreed - but I get why it is the way it is.

Its a form over function decision. Aero is critical with 1/10's the total energy of a tank of gas.

Sometimes the aero doesnt look as well as it works.

I thought about creating and making a roadster kit out of glass for one that improves the look (like we do the RZR kit)

UD

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Agreed - but I get why it is the way it is.

Its a form over function decision. Aero is critical with 1/10's the total energy of a tank of gas.

Sometimes the aero doesnt look as well as it works.

I thought about creating and making a roadster kit out of glass for one that improves the look (like we do the RZR kit)

UD

They could have made a dummy grill like they did on the original Model S. Most cars today have grilles with small openings anyway.

But I get it, that is their "design language".

 

[Uncle Dave]

They could have made a dummy grill like they did on the original Model S. Most cars today have grilles with small openings anyway.

But I get it, that is their "design language".

The S got the best of that - the 3 cedes to the calculator as it should.

UD

 

[SBMech]

Here's why Tesla's Elon Musk is in trouble with the SEC again
It's becoming obvious that the 'funding secured' fallout didn't alter Tesla CEO's Twitter habits

Elon Musk is in hot water again due to his Twitter comments, and curiously enough, this latest controversy is connected to legal fallout from a previous controversy, now known as "funding secured."

Earlier this week, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission effectively asked a court to order Musk to justify why he should not be held in contempt for an alleged violation of a settlement that Musk had entered into with the SEC back in fall 2018. That settlement saw Musk and Tesla fined $20 million each for statements that Musk made about a possible conversion of Tesla from a publicly traded company into a privately held one. The initial controversy, in which Musk claimed to have secured the multibillion dollar amount necessary for a massive stock buyback, one that would turn shareholders into private investors, caused Tesla stock prices to skyrocket for a short period of time. As it became painfully obvious in the days that followed, Musk did not, in fact, have the financial backing to go through with the deal, and backpedaled just a couple of weeks later. Ultimately, the episode did not do anything to Tesla the company, but the stock rollercoaster violated SEC regulations regarding communications by company officers, causing financial harm to some investors. As a part of a settlement with the SEC, approved in the fall of 2018, Tesla had to institute procedures for moderating Musk's tweets and to make other changes to its official communications procedures. Musk also gave up his post of chairman, while retaining the title of CEO.

The SEC now argues that Musk has violated that agreement by posting a tweet on Feb. 19 in which he said that Tesla would make half a million cars in 2019. "Tesla made 0 cars in 2011, but will make around 500k in 2019," the tweet stated. A few hours later, Musk clarified that tweet with another.

"Meant to say annualized production rate at end of 2019 probably around 500k, ie 10k cars/week. Deliveries for year still estimated to be about 400k," Musk tweeted.

This may seem like a relatively minor snafu, given the variety of things about which Musk tweets daily, but according to the agreement with the SEC, Musk had to receive approval from Tesla lawyers before tweeting out market-moving statements. A giant boost in 2019 output forecast qualifies as such a tweet, the SEC argues, and the agency took steps to discover that Musk's market-moving tweet was not approved by a company attorney.

This series of events was complicated by the fact that Tesla had earlier forecast an annualized output of the Tesla Model 3 in excess of 500,000 units between the fourth quarter of 2019 and the second quarter of 2020, giving Tesla the opportunity to argue that Musk was not tweeting out anything new, per se.

Still, there is a significant difference between producing 500,000 cars in the year 2019 and reaching an annualized output of 500,000 between Q4 of 2019 and Q2 of 2020 -- Tesla would certainly agree that those are very different things.

Further complicating matters is that Musk has been engaged in what some industry observers had described as trolling the SEC: In a wild interview in December, Musk told "60 Minutes" that he did not respect the agency, and prior to that, he labeled the agency as the "Shortseller Enrichment Commission," prompting fears from investors that the agreement could unravel in a matter of days.


The SEC had, in fact, seen all of these sideswipes, and the agency quoted Musk's dismissive comments about his new tweeting procedures in a show cause for contempt -- a type of court order that compels a party (Musk, in this case) to tell the court why he should not be held in contempt.

"But how do they know if it's going to move the market if they're not reading all of them before you send them?" Lesley Stahl asked Musk in the "60 Minutes" interview.

"Well, I guess we might make some mistakes. Who knows?

"Are you serious" Stahl asked.

"Nobody's perfect," Musk responded.

This may have seemed funny at the time, but the SEC quoted a chunk of the interview in its 13-page filing to show that Musk wasn't serious about complying with the agreement he had reached with the agency.

"While Musk claims to 'respect the justice system,' his deliberate indifference to compliance with this Court's Final Judgment indicates otherwise," the SEC stated at the conclusion of its filing.

What happens now is up to the judge; Musk could face potential fines from the court or even a temporary loss of his CEO post at Tesla. For what it's worth, the SEC does appear to have a solid case for a finding of contempt based on the breach of Twitter posting procedures, helped by Musk's very liberal take on those Twitter posting procedures, as evidenced by his "60 Minutes" appearance.

While it's not clear at the moment just what will happen to the CEO if a penalty of some sort is issued by the court, it's painfully obvious to Tesla investors and the board that the first brush with the SEC and the collective $40 million penalty did not fundamentally change Musk.



Man....he just can't help himself....

 

[TGIBFTGOG]

Tesla closing stores: https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Tesla-to-close-stores-take-orders-for-a-35-000-13653532.php

 

[Uncle Dave]

Still here - not remotely collapsed.

35K car available! (hopefully everyone that bitched about this will order or STFU)

35K too cheap to pay salespeople and pay leases on bunch of stores filled with salespeople - they should close stores - smart move.

At 50- 80K a car you can afford retail outlets at 35K - buy it off the web.

His tweet wasn't "news" it was the same info that was released in the QBR.

Smart - prob not - a violation we'll see.

UD

 

[SBMech]

Still here - not remotely collapsed.

35K car available! (hopefully everyone that bitched about this will order or STFU)

35K too cheap to pay salespeople and pay leases on bunch of stores filled with salespeople - they should close stores - smart move.

At 50- 80K a car you can afford retail outlets at 35K - buy it off the web.

His tweet wasn't "news" it was the same info that was released in the QBR.

Smart - prob not - a violation we'll see.

UD

Would you like it if I changed the title to "Misadventures of Musk" ?

It's just a running commentary now, since it looks like they made it out of the crisis zone.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Would you like it if I changed the title to "Misadventures of Musk" ?

It's just a running commentary now, since it looks like they made it out of the crisis zone.

That'd certainly be aptly titled -

It'll be interesting to see how this one goes down.

If Musk is correct - he can go after the SEC, if they are right they can ding him hard.



UD

 

[nowski]

But who is Elon Tusk??? LOL...

 

[Singleton]

End of day, the SEC does not want Musk as CEO.
IMO, they are going to push every little thing to try and get him removed.

Still believe he should be Chief Innovation Officer and let someone else be CEO. Let him focus on ideas and stuff where he shines

 

[rrrr]

Still here - not remotely collapsed.

35K car available! (hopefully everyone that bitched about this will order or STFU)

35K too cheap to pay salespeople and pay leases on bunch of stores filled with salespeople - they should close stores - smart move.

At 50- 80K a car you can afford retail outlets at 35K - buy it off the web.

His tweet wasn't "news" it was the same info that was released in the QBR.

Smart - prob not - a violation we'll see.

UD

Tesla's "smart move" isn't just because they need to reduce costs.

Guess what happens tomorrow? Tesla has to cough up $930,000,000 to pay for maturing senior convertible bonds.

That's about one third of the cash Tesla claims to have on hand. There's another batch due later in the year, about $400,000,000 if I remember correctly.

Building Model 3s that make no money at all doesn't sound like a road to success to me.

"Smart move"...LOL

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Still here - not remotely collapsed.

35K car available! (hopefully everyone that bitched about this will order or STFU)

35K too cheap to pay salespeople and pay leases on bunch of stores filled with salespeople - they should close stores - smart move.

UD

It is only $35k if you want a black one. It is like the electric Model T

But yea they are in a slightly better place now, but still bleeding too much cash for the amount of cars produced.

 

[rrrr]

If Musk is correct - he can go after the SEC, if they are right they can ding him hard.

UD

Just how can he "go after" the SEC? They have asked a judge to determine if Musk has violated the consent agreement.

Please do explain how Musk can retaliate for that lawful action.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Just how can he "go after" the SEC? They have asked a judge to determine if Musk has violated the consent agreement.

Please do explain how Musk can retaliate for that lawful action.

If the SEC makes a fraudulent claim that effects stock price they open themselves up to a lawsuit.

In other words the SEC claims Musk violated the agreement -and calls for a contempt hearing.

Musk basically says BS I only retweeted what was in the earning statement - then the SEC call has no ground to stand on because Musk is free to tweet anything already disclosed.

Its hard to prove something did or didnt move the stock but its an interesting issue.


UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

Tesla's "smart move" isn't just because they need to reduce costs.

Guess what happens tomorrow? Tesla has to cough up $930,000,000 to pay for maturing senior convertible bonds.

That's about one third of the cash Tesla claims to have on hand. There's another batch due later in the year, about $400,000,000 if I remember correctly.

Building Model 3s that make no money at all doesn't sound like a road to success to me.

"Smart move"...LOL

They knew it was only a matter of time before the retail outlets needed to close - the 35K car accelerated it.

Munro - (who knows better than you or I) claims there is about 18% gross profit in the base car.

Enough to run the company? Probably not, but it isn't a loss per car.

Wel see how the debt gets handled - but it wont kill the company. (as many have predicted )


UD

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Aren't there laws requiring a physical presence (dealership) to sell new cars in most states?

 

[Uncle Dave]

Aren't there laws requiring a physical presence (dealership) to sell new cars in most states?

Tesla has always bucked this trend and sold direct to clients infuriating NADA who has politically held them out of a few states.

UD

 

[Singleton]

Aren't there laws requiring a physical presence (dealership) to sell new cars in most states?

38+ states have laws stating independent dealerships are required.
Tesla was trying to change that. A shift to online only will not impact them at all.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Tesla has always bucked this trend and sold direct to clients infuriating NADA who has politically held them out of a few states.

UD

38+ states have laws stating independent dealerships are required.
Tesla was trying to change that. A shift to online only will not impact them at all.

Ok thanks. It was always my understanding that Tesla wanted direct to customer/internet sales from the beginning, but had been hamstrung due to state requirements.

 

[Singleton]

Ok thanks. It was always my understanding that Tesla wanted direct to customer/internet sales from the beginning, but had been hamstrung due to state requirements.

Tesla has always been direct to customer. The locations they had were display locations.
You still had to place order online.

 

[Dan Lorenze]

Maybe off topic a bit, a buddy of mine is selling a 2013 Model S 85 with 92k miles on it that I can get for really cheap, it's in showroom condition with a new motor, brakes and tires. I almost pulled the trigger yesterday. I decided to wait while I did some research on the reliability of the car. There's a lot of videos on YouTube with many unhappy customers regarding reliability and fit and finish of the car. Problems with the motor, power steering, door locks,windsheild wiper failures, brake rotors warping, suspension problems, touch screen issues etc.... Jeeze... I think the only way to own a Tesla is to buy a new or CPO vehicle direct from Tesla with a warranty and see if you have a service center in your town.

 

[boataholic]

Maybe off topic a bit, a buddy of mine is selling a 2013 Model S 85 with 92k miles on it that I can get for really cheap, it's in showroom condition with a new motor, brakes and tires. I almost pulled the trigger yesterday. I decided to wait while I did some research on the reliability of the car. There's a lot of videos on YouTube with many unhappy customers regarding reliability and fit and finish of the car. Problems with the motor, power steering, door locks,windsheild wiper failures, brake rotors warping, suspension problems, touch screen issues etc.... Jeeze... I think the only way to own a Tesla is to buy a new or CPO vehicle direct from Tesla with a warranty and see if you have a service center in your town.

I own a 2014 P85+, and cannot be more happier. No issues at all. I take in every 2 years as recommended for service, and have not had any of the above issues. Dont let the internet steer you off.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[wet hull]

Maybe off topic a bit, a buddy of mine is selling a 2013 Model S 85 with 92k miles on it that I can get for really cheap, it's in showroom condition with a new motor, brakes and tires. I almost pulled the trigger yesterday. I decided to wait while I did some research on the reliability of the car. There's a lot of videos on YouTube with many unhappy customers regarding reliability and fit and finish of the car. Problems with the motor, power steering, door locks,windsheild wiper failures, brake rotors warping, suspension problems, touch screen issues etc.... Jeeze... I think the only way to own a Tesla is to buy a new or CPO vehicle direct from Tesla with a warranty and see if you have a service center in your town.

What would he want for it? I am shopping for one currently

 

[Dan Lorenze]

What would he want for it? I am shopping for one currently

He's a close friend of mine that would let me have it for 27k. He's gonna hold on to it until I'm ready.

 

[boataholic]

He's a close friend of mine that would let me have it for 27k. He's gonna hold on to it until I'm ready.

That's a steal at that price if it's in good shape. I have coworker we bought around the same time. He bought it as a commuter, 145k miles still on the original brakes!!! Only maintenance has been tires.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[wet hull]

He's a close friend of mine that would let me have it for 27k. He's gonna hold on to it until I'm ready.

Thats a good deal.

 

[spectras only]

Friend of mine has a Tesla XP100D that had a lot of issues with the display unit. He's moving back to South Africa and will dump the car. He'll ship his Ferrari 599GTO though, probably more valuable there.

similar issues this guy had

 

[spectras only]

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/04/tesla-reports-big-first-quarter-loss/

After two back-to-back quarters of profits, Tesla lost $702 million in the first quarter of 2019, the company announced on Wednesday.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/04/tesla-reports-big-first-quarter-loss/

After two back-to-back quarters of profits, Tesla lost $702 million in the first quarter of 2019, the company announced on Wednesday.

Womp Womp.

 

[rrrr]

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/04/tesla-reports-big-first-quarter-loss/

After two back-to-back quarters of profits, Tesla lost $702 million in the first quarter of 2019, the company announced on Wednesday.

Those profitable quarters were just like the one time accomplishment of building 5,000 Model 3s in the last week of 2Q 2018, a totally contrived magic show pulled off by accounting sleight of hand.

They did it in an attempt to boost the stock to $359.87, the strike price for convertible bonds that matured on March 1. They failed, and had to cough up $920 million in cash to retire the bonds.

The financial results of 2Q 2019 show a disaster in the making. Tesla made a bet the China market would absorb tens of thousands of Model 3s this year, and with the decline of the Chinese economy and their domestic auto manufacturing industry operating at less than 30% capacity, it's obvious that's not going to happen.

Musk announced the conjuring of his fantasy autonomous taxi fleet a few days ago, attempting to take the market off the scent, but it didn't register a blip. The stock lost another 2% on Wednesday.

 

[spectras only]

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that people spent $$$ for such a bland looking vehicle.
The original roadster was nice and great for city commuting. I would buy a Fiat Spider [ great on fuel 43 mpg] before a Tesla 3 any day for less $ and enjoy open road cruising with top down.
Abarth> msrp 35K cdn

 

[sirbob]

 

[pronstar]

I hadn’t read this before...Musks borrowing, using Tesla share as collateral, is worrisome for investors.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4257765-elon-musks-loans-smash-tesla-share-price-soon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[rrrr]

From a second SeekingAlpha article:


April is off to a horrible start for Tesla in the countries in Europe where we get daily sales (registration) data: Norway and The Netherlands.

Compared to March, the daily sales rate in Norway in April thus far is down 82%, and in The Netherlands it’s down 76%.

For the more expensive and higher-margin Model S and X, Tesla is losing market share to Audi and Jaguar’s electric cars in the most dramatic of ways.

Audi eTron and Jaguar i-Pace are outselling Tesla Model X and S combined by a factor of 5.7 to 1 in Norway, and 9.7 to 1 in The Netherlands.

Tesla usually makes up for an April shortfall in the last month of the quarter, but this is a very deep hole from which Tesla now has to dig.

 

[Dan Lorenze]

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that people spent $$$ for such a bland looking vehicle.

Gas is $4 dollars a gallon where i live and not everyone wants to drive a Prius. Plus, I'm just getting tired of pulling into a gas station and swiping $100 a week in gas. All the studios I work at have free charging stations. I feel stupid not having an electric commuter car.

 

[pronstar]

Gas is $4 dollars a gallon where i live and not everyone wants to drive a Prius. Plus, I'm just getting tired of pulling into a gas station and swiping $100 a week in gas. All the studios I work at have free charging stations. I feel stupid not having an electric commuter car.

The challenge is, do you want a Model S, which is a 7-year-old product...or do you want any number of newer/fresher models from established brands?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Gas is $4 dollars a gallon where i live and not everyone wants to drive a Prius. Plus, I'm just getting tired of pulling into a gas station and swiping $100 a week in gas. All the studios I work at have free charging stations. I feel stupid not having an electric commuter car.

Buy a used gas commuter car for $10k and save actual money.

Buy a used fiat 500e if your commute is in range.

 

[Dan Lorenze]

The challenge is, do you want a Model S, which is a 7-year-old product...or do you want any number of newer/fresher models from established brands?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Slowly looking at preowned Model S's off of their site with a warranty and free supercharging. I have a Tesla service center in town, anything goes wrong with it they'll give you a loner and fix yours. I know there are more affordable options from the established brands but nothing to get too excited about for me personally.

 

[Flynryan]

I have a model 3 and love it. I got $!0k off in rebates so it took me to $48k. I dont pay for plugging it in because I get to charge at work for free too. It looks like you can get some model S's used for a decent price. Best part about owning 1 is never going to the gas station again

 

[Dan Lorenze]

Buy a used gas commuter car for $10k and save actual money.

But a fiat 500e if your commute is in range.

very true

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

very true

A used fiat 500e is dirt cheap.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Tesla blew its overseas deliveries - poor execution more red tape better not let that keep up or they won't survive.

Musk skated the SEC thing - again. Even though he was basically right - he should have STFU.

TSLA still ahead of Ford, however - (which is unbelievable in itself)

Ford is having their own emissions problem - probably won't be as bad as Chryslers, but I wonder what will happen to their existing diesel trucks when the patch goes in? This should be another thread. Well see if someone knew and tried to hide it or if it was just a fuck up - but this could be bad news for Ford diesel owners if a software retune emasculates the truck like VW's patch did.

Tesla killers - had a big launch and outsold the hugely expensive s&X - but turned out to be a laughing stock, and the first owners are really disappointed. Audi was WAY short on the promised range by a lot and are making tons of excuses talking about battery preservation etc. and spinning a bunch of stories.
Wait for their charging network to disappoint next.

look at their range for battery pack size.

They were way behind the 10-year old Teslas - much less the last induction motor upgrade.


Musk better get the SUV and truck up and going, and should probably go find some more money.