Tesla Continues to collapse.

[warlock250]

Ouch... down another ~$20.00 today.

Maybe Elon is crazy like a fox, drive the price of the stock down and then take it private. It wasn't worth $420 but it might be worth $275...

Crazy or not he's done more and made more money than all the back benchers around the net. Lol

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[rrrr]

I don't remember using the word "miracle" maybe I did, nor saying Elon is "infallable."
I'm sure I didn't say that because I don't believe it, but people ascribe sayings to me all the time.

I didn't mean to attribute those traits to you. It was meant to describe people like the posters on Teslaforum or whatever it is. Those posters are indeed Elon Musk zombies.

I found a good example after looking at the forum for 20 seconds:

.

A judge wants to hear about how this settlement will be in “the public interest.”

Musk’s greatest value to society is as a futurist - someone who has demonstrated a unique ability to steer society towards a sustainable future that can last for millennia. That value to society is intangible, but staggering.

Now a soulless government agency wants to prevent him from making forward-looking statements that might affect his company’s stock price. How is he supposed to challenge Tesla, and the world, to make the next great leap forward?

Tesla can easily argue that this kind of muzzle is not in society’s best interest.

.

Apparently this guy is unaware that the content of forward looking statements issued by principals of public companies must not contain deceptive information or be issued solely to affect the stock price of the company. This law has been on the books since the ravages of the Depression and its accompanying unscrupulous traders and company principals.

Preventing Musk from issuing his tweet bombs is without a doubt acting in the public interest. The fanboys just don't think it is.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Musk and Trump have the same Twitter publicist.

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I didn't mean to attribute those traits to you. It was meant to describe people like the posters on Teslaforum or whatever it is. Those posters are indeed Elon Musk zombies.

thanks and agreed fully sir.
This guy has some real sycophants slobbering on him.

Guy needs to grow up, just because he's got the money to be a cock he fucks with everybody else money-
You do that shit in your private company, not your public one.

I would have liked to have heard the conversation between he, Larry Ellison and the Saudi Arabian power broker.



UD

 

[boblins]

nope 5th best selling auto in August (not counting trucks and SUV's)

Im pretty sure in September it passed the corolla as well.

Thats for the month not YTD total aggregate.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-august-passenger-car-overall-auto-sales/

The free charging thing looks dead going forward - smart.

UD

Aug 2018 Sales -- Sept 2018 -- YTD
Tesla 3 : 17,800 ---- 22,250 --- 78,667
Toyota Corolla : 26,155 ---- 20,797 --- 235,168
Honda Accord : 26,725 --- 27,557 --- 215,249
Honda Civic : 27,677 --- 24,806 --- 255,036
Toyota Camry : 30,141 --- 27,680 ---- 262,887

for comparison 6th rated in August was Hyundai Elantra at 15,475 sold, Sept 19,923 and to date 148,879
at the other end rated 19th was the Mustang with Aug. sales at 7,487 and year to date (Aug) of 55,849


so no doubt Tesla had a pretty good Aug and Sept, and likely October will be decent as well, but suspect that soon they will have filled their backlog of orders , then what happens. We will see.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Aug 2018 Sales -- Sept 2018 -- YTD
Tesla 3 : 17,800 ---- 22,250 --- 78,667
Toyota Corolla : 26,155 ---- 20,797 --- 235,168
Honda Accord : 26,725 --- 27,557 --- 215,249
Honda Civic : 27,677 --- 24,806 --- 255,036
Toyota Camry : 30,141 --- 27,680 ---- 262,887

for comparison 6th rated in August was Hyundai Elantra at 15,475 sold, Sept 19,923 and to date 148,879
at the other end rated 19th was the Mustang with Aug. sales at 7,487 and year to date (Aug) of 55,849


so no doubt Tesla had a pretty good Aug and Sept, and likely October will be decent as well, but suspect that soon they will have filled their backlog of orders , then what happens. We will see.

Sound questions.

They registered what is believed to be 100% double motor Vins to 135K units and they are at like 95K today so that's basically 40K units already in the bank on the 2nd week of the quarter - at some point, they will switch to single motor RWD sedans.

They still have EU and other export demand to build for

They also haven't offered a lease yet - which will likely bump sales a lot.

Then at some point when things slow down well see the 35K version that everyone said they'd buy.

My guess would be demand isn't going to be a problem for a long while.

all that is if Elon can keep his ego in check and his mouth shut.

UD

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Sound questions...



all that is if Elon can keep his ego in check and his mouth shut.

UD

That won’t happen LOL.

 

[Uncle Dave]

That won’t happen LOL.

looking less likely every tweet.....

 

[530RL]

https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/18/senate-considering-extending-ev-tax-credits/?yptr=yahoo

 

[rrrr]

https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/18/senate-considering-extending-ev-tax-credits/?yptr=yahoo

Considering the average M3 costs above $50K and the S is $80K, Tesla buyers don't need my tax dollars to help buy their car. Same with Jaguar, BMW, Chevrolet, and Mercedes. The fact all big automakers are now spending billions on the rollout of EVs indicates they believe the market will support the prices of the vehicles without a tax subsidy.

 

[pronstar]

Considering the average M3 costs above $50K and the S is $80K, Tesla buyers don't need my tax dollars to help buy their car. Same with Jaguar, BMW, Chevrolet, and Mercedes. The fact all big automakers are now spending billions on the rollout of EVs indicates they believe the market will support the prices of the vehicles without a tax subsidy.

Carmakers are reluctant, but can read the tea leaves... and governments have made no secret that they’ll legislate carmakers to switch the model mix to favor EV over ICE.


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[Uncle Dave]

Ok -Q3 Announce has been moved up a week to tomorrow.

Stock picked up 33 dollars today and is currently at 294.

Anybody wanna guess what the news will be and what the market reaction will be to it?

On another note it been great not hearing from Elon for the last few weeks.

UD

 

[sirbob]

I heard they are releasing the cheap model 3

 

[Uncle Dave]

I heard they are releasing the cheap model 3

Don't think so...

They introduced a "cheaper" 45K version last week with 260 Miles of range instead of 310.

The 35K units with 200 fish miles of range are still a ways away Im guessing.

UD

 

[sirbob]

Maybe the 45k is what they were talking about - I just read the headline, never opened article.

 

[WYRD]

Don't think so...

They introduced a "cheaper" 45K version last week with 260 Miles of range instead of 310.

The 35K units with 200 fish miles of range are still a ways away Im guessing.

UD

Is a fish mile like a nautical mile?

 

[Uncle Dave]

Is a fish mile like a nautical mile?

200- "ish" sorry.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Don't think so...

They introduced a "cheaper" 45K version last week with 260 Miles of range instead of 310.

UD

The overpromising and underdelivering for a higher cost continues.

Again, this is my main problem with the whole deal.

 

[WYRD]

200- "ish" sorry.

Lol just making light no apologies required

 

[530RL]

https://www.thestreet.com/investing/tesla-q3-earnings-live-blog-14755178

 

[Uncle Dave]

The overpromising and underdelivering for a higher cost continues.

Again, this is my main problem with the whole deal.

Except that in Q3 he delivered.

If he had shipped the 35K version he would have missed and not made the revenue target.

Delaying the 35K version was exactly what he had to do to make the whole thing work.

The only people with a legitimate gripe were those that put money down on the 35K variant.

So in retrospect - what was the right move? Miss Q3 big to ship a cheaper stripper version? - or just she the most profitable ones first?


That whole 35K thing his hilariously overblown as thats what everyone does- they just do it a different way
The manufacturer says something like " starts at X" Then there is one of those and no more exist.
The volt was supposed to be 35K and when it came out you had to pay ludicrous dealer markup and couldn't get it for less than 50K for at least a year
Same with demon
Same with hellcat
Same with ZR1/Z06/Z51 stingray
Same with the desirable cameros..

This is par for the course for desirable first runs of any new cool product- but no one says a peep about it - unless its Tesla then bitch up a storm about car they were never going to buy anyway.

UD

 

[rcmike]

Everything you listed except for the Volt is a desirable limited production car. The melted tofu ver. 3 is not supposed to be limited production, or special edition. It is supposed to be the car that changes Tesla from a boutique hand built manufacturer into a mass market car.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Everything you listed except for the Volt is a desirable limited production car. The melted tofu ver. 3 is not supposed to be limited production, or special edition. It is supposed to be the car that changes Tesla from a boutique hand built manufacturer into a mass market car.

I just picked the most egregious mark up examples which included with what they did with the volt - on product launch to highlight as an example of the practice of manufactures saying the car starts at X - but you cant ever get that car.

As the mass market cheapest version - it is the most desirable car in this case numerically speaking - and for every other manufacture getting within 10K is kinda the norm.

I could go on an on about dealer markup on midrange cars - Bought a cheap (20K) new car last week with the son (had full post here) had 2 MSRP's . The cars and the dealer "landed price".

 

[Uncle Dave]

Its a manufacturer scam either way - just a different version.

Regular car Dealer say sorry I dont have any stripper model in stock Or I had one - but look at this one for 10 K more...maybe we can work a deal.

Tesla says - ok sure - well make a 35K car- you just have to wait for it the better higher paying customer come first.

UD

 

[pronstar]

That’s not really how it works.
Carmaker ads are scrutinized by the FTC.

If I advertise a car with a low msrp, I have to show inventory for that car in the markets where the ad runs.

Our lawyers will require it, and the FTC can - and does - demand proof of said inventory.

If a carmaker advertises a low MSRP, then states they aren’t gonna make that model, and there’s no dealer inventory of that model...fines and cease/desist demands are coming.

Why these rules don’t apply to Tesla is anyone’s guess.

All of this is totally different and had nothing to do with a dealer marking a car up from MSRP.


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[Uncle Dave]

You have to prove you have inventory of a car you advertise for sale at a given price. After you sell it you dont have to buy any more.

Customer - "Ive seen these things at 35K" - sure you you saw a few ads and there are a few but good luck finding them I dont have any more.




Watch how it worked for the volt - 10-12K bump
Where were the lawsuits?

https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/20...t-buyer-beware-as-some-dealers-mark-up-price/

 

[Uncle Dave]

\

If a carmaker advertises a low MSRP, then states they aren’t gonna make that model, and there’s no dealer inventory of that model...fines and cease/desist demands are coming.

Carmakers cant sell directly - so its a dealer that puts up the ad that says "its here if you show up" - at least that one. These cars are typically "quota cars" they jam a few down the dealers throat so that can meet a min spec.

base - Models 3's were pre ordered and it was stipulated there was an open ended delivery date when you volunteered the money.
They never said give us the money and well give you a car on X date.

Its perfectly fine to take an order against something that has to be built as long as you can refund within the terms agreed upon.

UD

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The whole thing is skirted because you just put a deposit On a car that does not exist yet. There is a huge asterisk that says the deceived car could be a different spec than what you are putting your deposit down on. It is a way to skirt the whole thing.

Musk tweeting “There will be a $35k version for the masses, give me a deposit and you can buy one” is not the same as me ordering a ZR1. Because I am ordering a ZR1 specifically when I do that.

 

[pronstar]

You have to prove you have inventory of a car you advertise for sale at a given price. After you sell it you dont have to buy any more.

Customer - "Ive seen these things at 35K" - sure you you saw a few ads and there are a few but good luck finding them I dont have any more.




Watch how it worked for the volt - 10-12K bump
Where were the lawsuits?

https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/20...t-buyer-beware-as-some-dealers-mark-up-price/

The low MSRP window sticker was represented.

Dealer markup beyond that isn’t on the window sticker, it’s in addition to the window sticker.

That’s what makes it different.

You as a carmaker have advertised a car at a low MSRP, and you have put units in the ground where you advertise.

Dealers are independent business and can monkey the price from there, usually to their own detriment.

Markup is an add-to the window sticker. They don’t reprint the sticker with new numbers.

Dealer ads fall under a separate set of guidelines within the FTC. And they have teams that scrutinize those as well.


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[Uncle Dave]

The low MSRP window sticker was represented.

Dealer markup beyond that isn’t on the window sticker, it’s in addition to the window sticker.

That’s what makes it different.

You as a carmaker have advertised a car at a low MSRP, and you have put units in the ground where you advertise.

Dealers are independent business and can monkey the price from there, usually to their own detriment.

Markup is an add-to the window sticker. They don’t reprint the sticker with new numbers.

Dealer ads fall under a separate set of guidelines within the FTC. And they have teams that scrutinize those as well.


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It ends up at the same result - you cant get the car for MSRP.



UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

....and its up 19 bones today for 308.

UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

Up to 335 and back to 317 -

feels like "profit taking Friday"

 

[Uncle Dave]

So far the competition we been hearing about "coming on strong soon" isn't so strong. Seems as far as the Jag goes - we'll be waiting longer.

Turns out the Jaguar I Pace is 23% less efficient in terms of miles per KWH on the highway at 70 than a the larger heavier 7 seat tesla Model X.
This is a huge difference.

It seems the new chargers of the future are a bust - at least charging the jag.

The super high end ionity charging network (conveniently located at a few porsche dealerships worldwide) that's supposed to be "twice as fast" as a supercharger - wasnt even as fast as the legacy supercharger network even in a car with the older cells. This contest was closer, but Telsa still won.

On a road trip the Jag will literally not be able to keep up with the X losing dramatically on the consumption end and meaningfully on the charging end.

I saw the other day that GM is calling for a national EV standard like California at the same time the white house is trying to remove Californias right to set its own standards. I wonder what GM may be asking us all for as it seems they are reaching out for government support - but well see how it evolves.


UD

 

[Danger Dave]

https://www.revealnews.org/article/...al-clinic-designed-to-ignore-injured-workers/

 

[SBMech]

Tesla sued after speed limiter removed, passenger killed in fatal crash

The family of a Florida man who died as a passenger in a Tesla Model S sedan is suing the company, claiming that the battery was defective and that the company was negligent by removing a speed limiter that the owner programmed into the vehicle.

According to the lawsuit, which you can read in its entirety here, Edgar Monserratt’s 18-year-old son was a passenger in the Model S traveling at a high rate of speed (over 115 mph) when it hit a light pole. The car caught fire and Monserratt’s son died.

The wrinkle here is that the driver, Barrett Riley, was previously ticketed in the same Tesla on a Florida highway for doing 112 mph. After that, his parents installed the speed limiter to keep the car under 85 mph.

Later, the car went in for service and the limiter was removed by the technician, “without the permission or knowledge of Riley’s parents.”

Monserratt is arguing that Tesla was negligent in removing the limiter and that the car itself was unreasonably dangerous.


Read more: https://autoweek.com/article/luxury...oved-passenger-dead-fatal-crash#ixzz5cKt1nCxd

Lots of statements about "no vehicle could have survived that crash" etc, but having the battery catch fire in EVERY real crash seems to be a pattern....

I'd take my chances in a ICE vehicle any day.

 

[hallett21]

Tesla sued after speed limiter removed, passenger killed in fatal crash

The family of a Florida man who died as a passenger in a Tesla Model S sedan is suing the company, claiming that the battery was defective and that the company was negligent by removing a speed limiter that the owner programmed into the vehicle.

According to the lawsuit, which you can read in its entirety here, Edgar Monserratt’s 18-year-old son was a passenger in the Model S traveling at a high rate of speed (over 115 mph) when it hit a light pole. The car caught fire and Monserratt’s son died.

The wrinkle here is that the driver, Barrett Riley, was previously ticketed in the same Tesla on a Florida highway for doing 112 mph. After that, his parents installed the speed limiter to keep the car under 85 mph.

Later, the car went in for service and the limiter was removed by the technician, “without the permission or knowledge of Riley’s parents.”

Monserratt is arguing that Tesla was negligent in removing the limiter and that the car itself was unreasonably dangerous.


Read more: https://autoweek.com/article/luxury...oved-passenger-dead-fatal-crash#ixzz5cKt1nCxd

Lots of statements about "no vehicle could have survived that crash" etc, but having the battery catch fire in EVERY real crash seems to be a pattern....

I'd take my chances in a ICE vehicle any day.

Over 100mph crash does it really matter? You’ve taken your life into your own hands at that point IMO


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[spectras only]

Well, the issue maybe that, during high impact, some electrical cabling, short in the lithium batteries may cause overheat and explosion to occur. I hope, Tesla developed a fail safe system to completely disconnect the batteries main connections via inertia/schock sensing switches.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

This ties into so many different threads going on right now. First off no way in hell is my kid getting a freaking Tesla S. Beyond that my kid gets popped going over 100 mph he is getting the keys taken away for a long time. I really hope he enjoys driving his used econoshitbox.

The fact that a speed limiter was put on the car and it was removed doesn't matter fault lies with the dumbass behind the wheel.

 

[Yellowboat]

Tesla sued after speed limiter removed, passenger killed in fatal crash

The family of a Florida man who died as a passenger in a Tesla Model S sedan is suing the company, claiming that the battery was defective and that the company was negligent by removing a speed limiter that the owner programmed into the vehicle.

According to the lawsuit, which you can read in its entirety here, Edgar Monserratt’s 18-year-old son was a passenger in the Model S traveling at a high rate of speed (over 115 mph) when it hit a light pole. The car caught fire and Monserratt’s son died.

The wrinkle here is that the driver, Barrett Riley, was previously ticketed in the same Tesla on a Florida highway for doing 112 mph. After that, his parents installed the speed limiter to keep the car under 85 mph.

Later, the car went in for service and the limiter was removed by the technician, “without the permission or knowledge of Riley’s parents.”

Monserratt is arguing that Tesla was negligent in removing the limiter and that the car itself was unreasonably dangerous.


Read more: https://autoweek.com/article/luxury...oved-passenger-dead-fatal-crash#ixzz5cKt1nCxd

Lots of statements about "no vehicle could have survived that crash" etc, but having the battery catch fire in EVERY real crash seems to be a pattern....

I'd take my chances in a ICE vehicle any day.

So let me get this straight, your kid got a ticket for 112 in a car you paid for and your solution is to have a speed limiter installed... um, wtf my kid gets a ticket for that in a car I paid for, he is losing the car, I don't care if he is 16 or 116. The fact that they are during because a tech removed, with out thier knowledge or consent, is a flat out joke.

 

[Uncle Dave]

It's always someone else fault. Kid should have has his license pulled the first time he got popped.

Play stupid games (give a kid a 100K car) - win stupid prizes.

The battery fully charged has about 10% of the energy a 20 gallon tank of fuel does.



UD

 

[pronstar]

Even with an 85 mph limiter, the result would have been the same.


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[SBMech]

It's always someone else fault. Kid should have has his license pulled the first time he got popped.

Play stupid games (give a kid a 100K car) - win stupid prizes.

The battery fully charged has about 10% of the energy a 20 gallon tank of fuel does.



UD

Yes, but cars do not explode like in the movies, it's REALLY FUCKING HARD to get a car engulfed in flames from an accident, even old cars.

Hybrids and pure EV's (especially Tesla since they are high performance) burn much fucking hotter and with much more volatility and dangerous chemicals released than a gasoline fire.

I've crashed (or been a passenger) in cars at over 100 before, several actually, and they were OLD with no air bags or shit. I was never ejected, (because I wore a seat belt) and was very lucky, since I never hit a solid object that is the single most deadly thing to happen, stopping suddenly from 100+ scrambles your insides and your brain like eggs.

I'd still take my chances with an ICE over any hybrid or EV in a real crash.

 

[pronstar]

I'd still take my chances with an ICE over any hybrid or EV in a real crash.

Cool you drive into a wall at 40 mph in a Yugo, and I’ll take my chances in a Model S [emoji106]


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[SBMech]

Cool you drive into a wall at 40 mph in a Yugo, and I’ll take my chances in a Model S [emoji106]


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Haha! Well now, a Yugo would not be my first choice.

 

[WhatExit?]

Elon Musk Sent an Email to Employees at 1:20 in the Morning, and It Just May Signal the End of Tesla

While it's likely that Musk truly believes his own rhetoric, what he's trying to achieve--namely, getting people to buy into the mission of "saving the world" by working themselves to the bone--simply isn't sustainable. And it's hurting Tesla employees in the process.
https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/e...just-may-signal-end-of-tesla.html?cid=sf01003

 

[Boozer]

Elon Musk Sent an Email to Employees at 1:20 in the Morning, and It Just May Signal the End of Tesla

While it's likely that Musk truly believes his own rhetoric, what he's trying to achieve--namely, getting people to buy into the mission of "saving the world" by working themselves to the bone--simply isn't sustainable. And it's hurting Tesla employees in the process.
https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/e...just-may-signal-end-of-tesla.html?cid=sf01003

I look for them to be acquired by one of the big 3. There are several shuttered US auto plants that could be quickly retooled to support production of Tesla Luxury EV’s as well as a basic and more affordable EV line that share a lot of the same components. Ford is prime to do this considering they just dumped their entire car line.


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[Justfishing]

Cool you drive into a wall at 40 mph in a Yugo, and I’ll take my chances in a Model S [emoji106]


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Do you think a Yugo could do 40?

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I look for them to be acquired by one of the big 3. There are several shuttered US auto plants that could be quickly retooled to support production of Tesla Luxury EV’s as well as a basic and more affordable EV line that share a lot of the same components. Ford is prime to do this considering they just dumped their entire car line.


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Why? Other than the battery the big-3 are better at everything than Tesla is... and even the gap in battery technogy is closing.

Heck, you can go down right now and buy Chevy's version if the Model 3 (the Bolt), at a cheaper price point, better design and construction and equal performance. But GM isn't selling very many.

If Tesla were to get sold, they will most likely go to a Chinese manufacturer or conglomorate. The Chinese market for EVs is going be yuge, I mean really spectacular and beautiful, very much winning.

 

[Boozer]

Why? Other than the battery the big-3 are better at everything than Tesla is... and even the gap in battery technogy is closing.

Heck, you can go down right now and buy Chevy's version if the Model 3 (the Bolt), at a cheaper price point, better design and construction and equal performance. But GM isn't selling very many.

If Tesla were to get sold, they will most likely go to a Chinese manufacturer or conglomorate. The Chinese market for EVs is going be yuge, I mean really spectacular and beautiful, very much winning.

Brand recognition. It’s a thing and Tesla has it.

The big 3 could build the S and the 3 for less than Tesla because of their production capabilities while maintaining the price point which would increase margins significantly.


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[Boozer]

And FWIW Chevys EV’s are hideous. It’s as if their design team is intentionally making the cars look like Geo metros.


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[HCP3]

And FWIW Chevys EV’s are hideous. It’s as if their design team is intentionally making the cars look like Geo metros.


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All of the past/current EV/Hybrid vehicles have been terrible looking (even the Fiskers). Tesla finally did it right.

EDIT: Although, I'm not 100% a fan of the Model 3. The front looks cartoon'ish without anything where a grill would normally be. If I had one, I'd put a piece of black 3m (wrap) to follow the lines of where a grill would be.