Tesla Continues to collapse.

[KingofBeers]

I actually think Sandy Munro knows about the relative tech in this arena - and his conclusion is no one touches Teslas tech.

Who do you believe is ahead of Tesla in the electric vehicle vertical?

UD

My comments were more aimed at the business itself. Volume of cars sold, reliability, revenue, etc. They may be in fine shape if they had stuck to producing a small number of high end cars instead of trying to compete with huge auto manufacturers.

 

[rrrr]

That's pretty much what I said the last time doom was predicted that if it stays above the 52 week low it'll likely bounce back (which it did) as the fundamentals outrank Musk himself at this stage.

UD

What fundamentals might that be?

The November and March convertible bond target of $359.00 isn't going to happen, and Tesla will have to cough up $230 million in November and $900 million in March.

 

[Ouderkirk]

And there it is. Elon Musk is being sued by the SEC on fraud allegations. Its about time.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/27/tesla-falls-4percent-on-report-elon-musk-sued-by-sec.html

Musk is in deep kimchi

https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-sued-by-the-sec-for-securities-fraud-1538079650

He'll be lucky if he doesn't do a few years as someone's "girlfriend" in galdiator school. He'll be siting in a cell next to bernie madoff.

 

[PaPaG]

DOWN DOWN DOWN......Tesla Stock Dives As SEC Sues Elon Musk
The SEC sued Tesla CEO Elon Musk for fraud, claiming he willingly tried to deceive shareholders with his go-private, "funding secured" tweets. The financial watchdog agency spelled out how Musk had not secured funding of any kind. The SEC wants to bar Elon Musk from serving as a director of Tesla or any other public company.

Tesla stock plunged nearly 14% to 265.42 in huge volume in late trading. Shares hit a recent intraday low of 252.25, set on Sept. 7.

Elon Musk, in a statement, rejected the SEC claims. But the SEC suit will certainly bolster shareholder lawsuits against Tesla and Musk, given the stock's wild surge and plunge following the "funding secured" tweet.

Tesla's board, never seen as particularly independent or active, will come under more pressure. Tesla critics and even many supporters have long urged the company to hire a No. 2 to run Tesla's day-to-day operations and get its manufacturing in order. Now the need is greater, in case the SEC suit leads to Musk's departure.

 

[Uncle Dave]

What fundamentals might that be?

The November and March convertible bond target of $359.00 isn't going to happen, and Tesla will have to cough up $2.3 billion.

Models 3's current market position, profit per unit, and shipping quantity.

They are under pressure for sure, but have withstood predicted demise from the get-go.

UD

 

[MSum661]

What fundamentals might that be?

The November and March convertible bond target of $359.00 isn't going to happen, and Tesla will have to cough up $2.3 billion.

At this point it won't matter how many cars they turn out, this mess is going south bound.
The only thing the bond holders can hope for is a buyout for about half the current market cap, which would be around $130 PPS (if even that much), or it's sold off in pieces.
JMO.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

This is turning into the Ultra Boats thread

 

[Uncle Dave]

This is turning into the Ultra Boats thread

turning into?
wasnt it always?

UD

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

turning into?
wasnt it always?

UD

Well played.

 

[rrrr]

Models 3's current market position, profit per unit, and shipping quantity.

They are under pressure for sure, but have withstood predicted demise from the get-go.

UD

Next hit to the stock price will be their 3Q numbers. Musk promised a profitable quarter, and that's not going to happen.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Weve seen that happen just a few weeks ago - you predicted gloom then (and at just about every other dip or issue) - and it came right back to 300.

After hours is already creeping back up - but you don't show that in that chart.

Lets step back and look at it in the big picture.


UD

 

[rrrr]

No, I said when it went below $300 the price decline would accelerate. We shall see.

 

[Uncle Dave]

My comments were more aimed at the business itself. Volume of cars sold, reliability, revenue, etc. They may be in fine shape if they had stuck to producing a small number of high end cars instead of trying to compete with huge auto manufacturers.

If Telsa were private they could focus on a niche market and be just fine. Wall Street isn't interested in that.

A public Tesla must pursue growth at all costs - no one wants their 401K to shrink and if it doesn't grow who wants it long term?


UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

No, I said when it went below $300 the price decline would accelerate. We shall see.

It didnt did it?

Going back in time how many calls would you say you got right?


UD

 

[rrrr]

I don't believe I have made any price predictions other than that one. I have said multiple times the financial are not sustainable and will require more cash before 2019, something Musk has denied. The November convertibles will require $270 million.

Again, we shall see.

 

[Uncle Dave]

price claims and your reposting of analyst articles that make predictions is a fine line.

You've proffered multiple analyst positions as reason tesla would tank.

If you put out an analyst position like so many here and it ends up wrong - you own it - just like if they are right.



UD

 

[rrrr]

price claims and your reposting of analyst articles that make predictions is a fine line.

You've proffered multiple analyst positions as reason tesla would tank.

If you put out an analyst position like so many here and it ends up wrong - you own it - just like if they are right.



UD

Oh, bullshit. I posted one article with an analysts opinion.

Just ignore my posts. Your tit-for-tat posts are becoming beyond annoying.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Oh, bullshit. I posted one article with an analysts opinion.

Just ignore my posts. Your tit-for-tat posts are becoming beyond annoying.

Only to you.

Whats the point of having a thread discussion if everyone agrees?

I think you've made a bunch of bad calls and I'm the only one with the balls to get into it with you or anyone on Telsa hating thread.





UD

 

[pronstar]

Musk’s desire to own all the verticals is biting him in the ass...without a dealer network to get cars to customers, they’ve got massive distribution problems right now.

And the only carriers who can make money are hot-shot haulers - guys with a dually delivering cars in pajamas and sippers.

This was foreseen by...well...everyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[EmpirE231]

Musk’s desire to own all the verticals is biting him in the ass...without a dealer network to get cars to customers, they’ve got massive distribution problems right now.

And the only carriers who can make money are hot-shot haulers - guys with a dually delivering cars in pajamas and sippers.

This was foreseen by...well...everyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Can’t the cars just deliver themselves to your door?

 

[rrrr]

The WSJ says spot freight prices for 53' air ride vans are approaching $2.20/mile, up over 100% from 2016. There's a huge demand for trucks right now.

How does Tesla deliver their weekly production in a timely fashion? Do they have access to rail cars?

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Can’t the cars just deliver themselves to your door?

LOL... Savage...

 

[pronstar]

The WSJ says spot freight prices for 53' air ride vans are approaching $2.20/mile, up over 100% from 2016. There's a huge demand for trucks right now.

How does Tesla deliver their weekly production in a timely fashion? Do they have access to rail cars?

It’s a disaster.
Mostly open-car carriers.
I could go on but it would reveal my secret identity [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Uncle Dave]

Doesn't anyone with money have access to rail?

UD

 

[hallett21]

The WSJ says spot freight prices for 53' air ride vans are approaching $2.20/mile, up over 100% from 2016. There's a huge demand for trucks right now.

How does Tesla deliver their weekly production in a timely fashion? Do they have access to rail cars?

How many cars are on the trailer at 2.20 a mile?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Uncle Dave]

So it opened right around 269.

It been lower than this several times in the last 6 months -1yr and recovered every time.

Looks like Elon turned down a no guilt settlement at the last minute so it's going to be a ride.

UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

At this point it won't matter how many cars they turn out, this mess is going south bound.
The only thing the bond holders can hope for is a buyout for about half the current market cap, which would be around $130 PPS (if even that much), or it's sold off in pieces.
JMO.

Still going with this position?

You are short 142 a share this morning (its 273 at this moment)

UD

 

[Singleton]

When was the last time the SEC lost? That entire organization is full or auditors and we don’t file unless we know are going to win.

IMO, the Tesla board needs to but Musk on administrative leave until the matter is resolved. If the board does not take any action, shows that board is not doing their duty.

 

[RitcheyRch]

Seems to be more and more of them on the road these days. My friend, Tim seems to be doing pretty well with his motoshippers.com company and is the primary delivery service for a few companies.

It’s a disaster.
Mostly open-car carriers.
I could go on but it would reveal my secret identity [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Uncle Dave]

When was the last time the SEC lost? That entire organization is full or auditors and we don’t file unless we know are going to win.

IMO, the Tesla board needs to but Musk on administrative leave until the matter is resolved. If the board does not take any action, shows that board is not doing their duty.

SEC blows it all the time - madoff, enron....
They investigated these guys a didn't come away with anything actionable.
Real shareholder watchdog group they are.
When they bust someone it's usually meaningless in the grand scheme like the Tyco 100K fine.

What if the Saudi prince says he told Elon he could have the money? The whole case takes a shit before it starts.

Elon could be kicked off the board and still be the president and general manager and CTO of Telsa.
I'm not sure why people are thinking you need to be on a board to actually run a company.

UD

 

[pronstar]

Seems to be more and more of them on the road these days. My friend, Tim seems to be doing pretty well with his motoshippers.com company and is the primary delivery service for a few companies.

Yeah we’ve got 50+ enclosed haulers, can’t make the numbers work.

I might put our lone open-rack hauler to it, but dead-heading back to the plant kills my profit.

We (me and my affiliates) generally like to stick with the premium stuff [emoji106]

www.lapautotranaport.com


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Sleek-Jet]

SEC blows it all the time - madoff, enron....
They investigated these guys a didn't come away with anything actionable.
Real shareholder watchdog group they are.
When they bust someone it's usually meaningless in the grand scheme like the Tyco 100K fine.

What if the Saudi prince says he told Elon he could have the money? The whole case takes a shit before it starts.

Elon could be kicked off the board and still be the president and general manager and CTO of Telsa.
I'm not sure why people are thinking you need to be on a board to actually run a company.

UD

Last time I checked, Madoff is in prison and Enron isn't in business any longer.

The SEC is slow, but I know I wouldn't want them searching through my records.

 

[Singleton]

SEC blows it all the time - madoff, enron....
They investigated these guys a didn't come away with anything actionable.
Real shareholder watchdog group they are.
When they bust someone it's usually meaningless in the grand scheme like the Tyco 100K fine.

What if the Saudi prince says he told Elon he could have the money? The whole case takes a shit before it starts.

Elon could be kicked off the board and still be the president and general manager and CTO of Telsa.
I'm not sure why people are thinking you need to be on a board to actually run a company.

UD

He needs to but an administrative leave until the matter is resolved. I read the document last night, and the only way to stabilize the stock is to place him on leave IMO.

Your 100% correct, he is better suited to be CTO then anything else.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Last time I checked, Madoff is in prison and Enron isn't in business any longer.

The SEC is slow, but I know I wouldn't want them searching through my records.

Both self-imploded before anything the SEC did helped the shareholders out.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1033944629262271233
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/02/AR2009090203851.html

Tons of reading out there on both instances of SEC blowing it.

Slow - worse than Dillinger.

UD

 

[nowski]

It's pretty rare to hear that someone has thrown himself under the bus, it's usually someone else that does the throwing. Whatever the outcome the wheels on this bus will continue to go round and round...

 

[MSum661]

Well, briefly looking through the docs the SEC is looking to bar Musk from serving on the board of a public company for LIFE.

The other serious issue I see here is this price slippage. Elon Musk borrowed against his stake in the company to buy more shares a little while back after he had publically taunted short sellers on twitter. If these fall below a level he will be liquidating a large position. This will almost certainly open tomorrow with a big, huge, filthy red candle.

Still going with this position?

You are short 142 a share this morning (its 273 at this moment)

UD

Is this a trick question?

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Both self-imploded before anything the SEC did helped the shareholders out.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1033944629262271233
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/02/AR2009090203851.html

Tons of reading out there on both instances of SEC blowing it.

Slow - worse than Dillinger.

UD

The point I was making is the SEC is usually late, but you don't want them on your doorstep.

 

[Uncle Dave]

That's, not the question I quoted.
Heres the quote.

 

[Uncle Dave]

The point I was making is the SEC is usually late, but you don't want them on your doorstep.

We definitely agree on that.

In our industry, we have megbrain geniuses, math and algorithm wizards.
We never let them anywhere near a camera or microphone

 

[rrrr]

In spite of comments made in this thread attempting to minimize the damage, it's clear that actions by Elon Musk since August 7th have caused real and likely permanent damage to Tesla. The stock fell almost 14% today, and multiple financial firms have abandoned the stock, moving to "sell" recommendations.

Tesla shares plunge as Wall Street throws in towel, saying Musk departure could cost stock $130

Wall Street is buzzing over SEC's civil action against Tesla CEO Elon Musk, predicting significant negative ramifications for the electric car market due to the action.

Shares of the automaker fell 13.9 percent on Friday, their worst day since November 2013.

The Securities and Exchange Commission sued Musk on Thursday, alleging for fraud. The complaint says Musk issued "false and misleading" statements and failed to properly notify regulators of material company events. Musk called the SEC's allegations "unjustified" and said he "never compromised" his integrity.

Barclays believes if Musk is forced to leave because of the SEC action, it will be weigh on Tesla's stock.

"The SEC civil action may lead to Musk's exit from Tesla (either permanently or temporarily) and the Musk premium in the shares dissipating," analyst Brian Johnson said in a note to clients Friday. "Tesla shares have ~$130 of Musk premium for future success that might dissipate."

Tesla's stock closed at $307.52 Thursday.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/28/tes...suit-against-musk.html?recirc=taboolainternal


Musk's "Short burn of the century" has completely collapsed, and the short sellers have turned significant losses into a $643 million gain for 2018.

Tesla short sellers erased their year-to-date losses Friday as the market reacted to news that the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission is suing the electric carmaker’s CEO, Elon Musk.

Short sellers are up $1.27 billion on the day, according to data from S3 Analytics, a financial technology and analytics firm. The shorts are up $643 million for the year, after being in negative territory before the lawsuit was announced.

Financial analysts are also questioning the strategy Tesla has taken by turning down an offer by the SEC to settle the issue with no admission of guilt if Musk stepped down for two years.

The allegations against Musk, detailed in the lawsuit filed yesterday, clearly show Musk was being untruthful when he claimed "funding secured", and made a litany of more egregious false statements and illegal actions after the initial claim made on August 7th.


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/28/son...refuse-secs-deal.html?recirc=taboolainternalo

The abandonment of Tesla by Wall Street has been immediate and severe.

Tesla shares plunged by double digits on Friday for its worst session since November 2013 after the SEC sued CEO Elon Musk for fraud. Here's what five experts had to say about the stock and the controversial CEO:

• "I don't think it's a long, I think it's a difficult short," noted short seller Andrew Left of Citron Research said. "I'm surprised that shareholders are shocked that he's getting charged, of course he was going to get charged by the SEC," he added.

• "I'd say [there's a] greater than 50 percent [chance], that [Musk] gets removed. But I also want to stress that that is in my book, actually, a positive outcome as crazy as that is. I think his role is best as a product visionary," Loup Ventures founder Gene Munster explained.

• Gabe Hoffman, owner and general partner of Accipter Capital Management thinks the moment Musk is out as CEO of Tesla, it is "no longer a cult stock of Elon Musk's hopes, dreams and lies. You have to actually value Tesla as a business..[and] I believe the financials show you that Tesla is a very troubled business on the precipice of financial collapse."

• "Certainly in the short-term, the stock is going to take a hit," said Rebecca Lindland, executive analyst at Kelley Blue Book. "But it may not be as low as people expect as people come in and buy, and it could be that in the long-term the company is fine."

• "Either way you cut it, the valuation is absurd, and the stock has been going up primarily because of Mr. Musk's brand and vision," stated Needham analyst Rajvindra Gill.

Bottom line: Wall Street analysts expect a bump road for Tesla as the fate of its CEO and founder hang in the balance.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/09/28...errer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s

 

[JBS]

Yeah we’ve got 50+ enclosed haulers, can’t make the numbers work.

I might put our lone open-rack hauler to it, but dead-heading back to the plant kills my profit.

We (me and my affiliates) generally like to stick with the premium stuff [emoji106]

www.lapautotranaport.com


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Did you just out yourself

 

[MSum661]

That's, not the question I quoted.
Heres the quote.

View attachment 687832

Your Grand Delusion just Barfed back $42+ PPS today.
I think its on the track to plus or minus $130.
Give it time Son....its coming.

Have a Great a Weekend and Drive careful!!!

 

[MSum661]

In spite of comments made in this thread attempting to minimize the damage, it's clear that actions by Elon Musk since August 7th have caused real and likely permanent damage to Tesla. The stock fell almost 14% today, and multiple financial firms have abandoned the stock, moving to "sell" recommendations.

Tesla shares plunge as Wall Street throws in towel, saying Musk departure could cost stock $130

Wall Street is buzzing over SEC's civil action against Tesla CEO Elon Musk, predicting significant negative ramifications for the electric car market due to the action.

Shares of the automaker fell 13.9 percent on Friday, their worst day since November 2013.

The Securities and Exchange Commission sued Musk on Thursday, alleging for fraud. The complaint says Musk issued "false and misleading" statements and failed to properly notify regulators of material company events. Musk called the SEC's allegations "unjustified" and said he "never compromised" his integrity.

Barclays believes if Musk is forced to leave because of the SEC action, it will be weigh on Tesla's stock.

"The SEC civil action may lead to Musk's exit from Tesla (either permanently or temporarily) and the Musk premium in the shares dissipating," analyst Brian Johnson said in a note to clients Friday. "Tesla shares have ~$130 of Musk premium for future success that might dissipate."

Tesla's stock closed at $307.52 Thursday.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/28/tes...suit-against-musk.html?recirc=taboolainternal


Musk's "Short burn of the century" has completely collapsed, and the short sellers have turned significant losses into a $643 million gain for 2018.

Tesla short sellers erased their year-to-date losses Friday as the market reacted to news that the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission is suing the electric carmaker’s CEO, Elon Musk.

Short sellers are up $1.27 billion on the day, according to data from S3 Analytics, a financial technology and analytics firm. The shorts are up $643 million for the year, after being in negative territory before the lawsuit was announced.

Financial analysts are also questioning the strategy Tesla has taken by turning down an offer by the SEC to settle the issue with no admission of guilt if Musk stepped down for two years.

The allegations against Musk, detailed in the lawsuit filed yesterday, clearly show Musk was being untruthful when he claimed "funding secured", and made a litany of more egregious false statements and illegal actions after the initial claim made on August 7th.


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/28/son...refuse-secs-deal.html?recirc=taboolainternalo

The abandonment of Tesla by Wall Street has been immediate and severe.

Tesla shares plunged by double digits on Friday for its worst session since November 2013 after the SEC sued CEO Elon Musk for fraud. Here's what five experts had to say about the stock and the controversial CEO:

• "I don't think it's a long, I think it's a difficult short," noted short seller Andrew Left of Citron Research said. "I'm surprised that shareholders are shocked that he's getting charged, of course he was going to get charged by the SEC," he added.

• "I'd say [there's a] greater than 50 percent [chance], that [Musk] gets removed. But I also want to stress that that is in my book, actually, a positive outcome as crazy as that is. I think his role is best as a product visionary," Loup Ventures founder Gene Munster explained.

• 
  
  
  • Gabe Hoffman, owner and general partner of Accipter Capital Management thinks the moment Musk is out as CEO of Tesla, it is "no longer a cult stock of Elon Musk's hopes, dreams and lies. You have to actually value Tesla as a business..[and] I believe the financials show you that Tesla is a very troubled business on the precipice of financial collapse."

• 
  
  
  • "Certainly in the short-term, the stock is going to take a hit," said Rebecca Lindland, executive analyst at Kelley Blue Book. "But it may not be as low as people expect as people come in and buy, and it could be that in the long-term the company is fine."

• 
  
  
  • "Either way you cut it, the valuation is absurd, and the stock has been going up primarily because of Mr. Musk's brand and vision," stated Needham analyst Rajvindra Gill.

Bottom line: Wall Street analysts expect a bump road for Tesla as the fate of its CEO and founder hang in the balance.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/09/28/teslas-down-12-percent-today-heres-what-5-experts-are-saying-about-the-stock.html?recirc=taboolainternal#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s

That's what my peeps are sayin too.
Settles back to $130-$150.

Strong Sell until then!!!

Out.

 

[rrrr]

After hours is already creeping back up - but you don't show that in that chart.

Lets step back and look at it in the big picture.


UD

View attachment 687625

How's that big picture looking now?

 

[Uncle Dave]

How's that big picture looking now?

Stock didn't even crack 52 week low - it went lower earlier in the year and was the same if not worse just a few weeks ago.

Hows your sub 300 bottom fall out slide prediction ?
Looks like you missed that one twice now.

You are quoting gill again? - he hung you and everyone high and dry on his battery claim.


UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

Your Grand Delusion just Barfed back $42+ PPS today.
I think its on the track to plus or minus $130.
Give it time Son....its coming.

You called 130 and missed huge - Dad.

Now you say "give it time" - what's your new timeframe?

The 42 dollar drop is well within the last years normal swing.


UD

 

[rrrr]

If you're going to make claims about what I said, how about doing it accurately instead of embellishing it with your words.

I said $300 was an important psychological barrier, and that's not exactly a radical claim.

The enthusiasm behind TSLA is going to be quite a bit different with the prospect of Elon Musk being barred from participating. Whether you acknowledge that rudimentary and obvious fact is up to you.

Posting a quote that includes a statement from Gill does not mean I sought it out. CNBC thought it important enough to include it in their article.

 

[Uncle Dave]

If you're going to make claims about what I said, how about doing it accurately instead of embellishing it with your words.

I said $300 was an important psychological barrier, and that's not exactly a radical claim.

The enthusiasm behind TSLA is going to be quite a bit different with the prospect of Elon Musk being barred from participating. Whether you acknowledge that rudimentary and obvious fact is up to you.

Posting a quote that includes a statement from Gill does not mean I sought it out. CNBC thought it important enough to include it in their article.

You did say 300 was psychological barrier and if the stock dropped below that it would lose ground fast as everyone bails out (Ill go look it up so I get your words right) but thats the gist of it - It did fall below that - but it came back up again.

Your very first post in the thread in nov 2017 was basically agreeing it was collapsing. We're almost a year later and no collapse.

Even if musk is removed from board that doesn't mean he won't be participating. Do you really think they cant find any position for him?

Remember I got out at 250 because I believe its going to be hard for them to succed and take longer than Elon claims.

I can't take a neutral /positive position without being a musk lover or tesla fanboy or having "grand delusions" but I don't think you guys have it right either.

Media loves drama - they'll post up anyones opinion with a pulse even guys that get it wrong repeatedly- like Gill.


UD

 

[rrrr]

Stock didn't even crack 52 week low - it went lower earlier in the year and was the same if not worse just a few weeks ago.

Musk hadn't been sued by the SEC a few weeks ago.

Now, it's $12.28 above the 52 week low, and has dropped over 30% from its 52 week high. How rash of me to make comments about the stock price.

I noticed you haven't mentioned the Bloomberg tracker in a while. Last week less than 2,200 Model 3s were produced. I wonder what happened to that promised 3Q return to profitability, positive cash flow promise, and 5,000 Model 3s per week.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/

 

[MSum661]

You called 130 and missed huge - Dad.

Now you say "give it time" - what's your new timeframe?

The 42 dollar drop is well within the last years normal swing.


UD

You did what you do best and assumed the PPS would drop to that range in one day.
Do you need me to hold your hand and go back and show you what I wrote?

This POS is a falling chainsaw. Period.