Tesla Continues to collapse.

[MSum661]

Anybody pick up on some chatter that Air Force officials are investigating Musk's pot use?
Something about violations of the contract with Space EX.?

 

[Uncle Dave]

They can always pay the Russians double the launch cost for one shot RD-180's - I'm imagining they will likely forget about it.

UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

....and as per its historical performance in the last year - the stock bounced back almost all the way back already today - every time it dipped at all it was the beginning of the end - "they are going under". He'll never make it!! See he's a failure!

Reminds of Nouriel Roubini - a guy that predicted 45 of the last 2 recessions - and then says - see I told you so!

Some things to note - it had dropped to Friday's level prior just about 6 months ago and recovered just fine, both the prior dip and last weeks dip both about 20.00 above the 52 week low.

It "seems" the company fundamentals trump Elon taking two hits off a blunt.

On another level - what a lightweight he took a grand total of what - 2 hits in 2 hours ?
My grandma could hit it harder than he did.

Oppenheimer upgraded Telsa to outperform on Friday targeting 385.00 in 12-18 Month.

 

[sirbob]

The more I see Porsches version the more I like it.

 

[Uncle Dave]

The Porsche is really cool, but at least a year away from being a production car.

Well, see what it costs when they start making it next year - and what the actual charging network they can offer will be.

Right now its 1,300 stations and 11,000 stalls of supercharging - to 0.
If it shipped today you are pretty much stuck with your house or a destination charger.

They have a looong way to go to make it work in any kind of long-distance scenario.



UD

 

[pronstar]

The more I see Porsches version the more I like it.


View attachment 681662 View attachment 681663 View attachment 681664 View attachment 681665

Keep in mind, that’s a show car, not a production car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[sirbob]

Keep in mind, that’s a show car, not a production car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro[/QUOTE

I hear you but I've seen a bunch of them driving in videos and they seem to look a lot like this one. = can't wait to see for real!

 

[spectras only]

Keep in mind, that’s a show car, not a production car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

So is the new EV Audi I saw unveiled at Laguna Seca. Will be interesting to see how quick they become available.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

The Porsche is really cool, but at least a year away from being a production car.

Well, see what it costs when they start making it next year - and what the actual charging network they can offer will be.

Right now its 1,300 stations and 11,000 stalls of supercharging - to 0.
If it shipped today you are pretty much stuck with your house or a destination charger.

They have a looong way to go to make it work in any kind of long-distance scenario.



UD

And that COULD be a problem for any one car company if the majority of the industry decided to standardize chargers.

Imagine if you could only charge your iPhone at home or an Apple store but an Android could be charged anywhere....

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

 

[sirbob]

The Porsche is really cool, but at least a year away from being a production car.
Well, see what it costs when they start making it next year - and what the actual charging network they can offer will be.
Right now its 1,300 stations and 11,000 stalls of supercharging - to 0.
If it shipped today you are pretty much stuck with your house or a destination charger.
They have a looong way to go to make it work in any kind of long-distance scenario.
UD

Porsche is not at 0 today - they have installed power stations in Europe and ATL here in the US...

The plan seems to be to launch at the same time they have implimented 500 charging stations. Of course that is not the same as Tesla but the real issue may be - will the car companies look to control the power stations or will independent companies own and control the stations (i.e. exon mobil)...

I think there is going to be a bunch off leap frogging before this even starts to settle - and by then Tesla autos will be part of a bigger car company and the discussions will be made in the old fashion way about whether not they even want to own those superstations.

As a side note - Porsche at this time plans to make their power stations a profit center.


Porsche to deploy a network of 500 EV charging stations in North America in time for Mission E next year
Fred Lambert

- Apr. 16th 2018 11:08 am ET

Porsche’s North America Chief has confirmed that the German automaker is planning to deploy a network of 500 electric vehicle charging stations in North America just in time for the Mission E next year.

Klaus Zellmer, CEO of Porsche Cars North America, confirmed the details to Automotive News today.

He said that 500 stations will be installed in the US at their dealerships (189 of them) and the rest will cover highways around the country.

An additional 20 stations are planned in Canada.

Zellmer confirmed that the process has already started and that a third-party vendor has been visiting the sites and dealerships in order to prepare for the deployment, which they aim to be completed by the second half of 2019 – just when Porsche is expected to start producing the Mission E, its first all-electric vehicle.

The CEO added about the cost of the project:

it’s not a minor cost. It certainly is six-digit numbers that our dealers will have to take.

The station would be used to enable long-distance travel, but the CEO also added that they are considering a network of chargers for destinations, similar to Tesla’s Destination Charging network.

Electrek’s Take

We already had a pretty good idea of what to expect since Porsche deployed their new 800-volt fast-charging technology at their North American headquarters in Atlanta last year.

But it’s still very good news for EV infrastructure because the extent of their plans for their own network wasn’t exactly clear due to comments indicating that they might instead simply rely on the Ionity charging network in Europe and Volkswagen’s Electrify America network in the US.

Now it’s clear that they want their own network to support the Mission E and their future all-electric vehicles.

As we previously reported, Porsche claims the Mission E is capable of supporting a 350 kW charging rate, which could charge up the Mission E’s battery pack to 80% in about 15 minutes.

Now, they want to have stations that will be able to charge at that rate in order to support the vehicle.

We reported on them building the first of those stations in Germany. They claimed that the backend supports 350 kW charge rate, but it can currently charge at 50 to 150 kW. They had to develop a new transformer in order to support the charge points.

An automaker-owned network can be quite useful for drivers as demonstrated by Tesla’s very successful Supercharger network.

But interestingly, Porsche previously said they were working for the ultra fast-charging infrastructure to also work with Tesla and other EVs.

For those reasons, it will be interesting to follow the development of the network over the next year.

 

[SBMech]

Musk to face criminal fraud investigation from private sale tweets....


Federal prosecutors have opened up a fraud investigation weeks following Elon Musk's surprise tweet in August 2018 about taking the company private, Bloomberg reports, tweets that initially prompted its shares to skyrocket. Musk's tweets included a promise of "funding secured," which suggested to some observers that the company was in late stages of wrapping up a deal to buy back billions of dollars worth of shares and convert the publicly traded company into a private one.

It took only days for it to become apparent that Tesla was, at best, in the very early stages of such discussions and that the "funding secured" tweet was based on what can best be described as poor communication between Musk and the Saudi sovereign wealth fund (PIF). Days later, Tesla detailed the circumstances that led up to the tweets regarding converting Tesla into a private company, painting a strange picture of miscommunication and confusion on the part of its CEO.

"Going back almost two years, the Saudi Arabian sovereign wealth fund has approached me multiple times about taking Tesla private," Musk wrote in a blog post explaining the initial comments. "They first met with me at the beginning of 2017 to express this interest because of the important need to diversify away from oil. They then held several additional meetings with me over the next year to reiterate this interest and to try to move forward with a going private transaction. Obviously, the Saudi sovereign fund has more than enough capital needed to execute on such a transaction."



Read more: https://autoweek.com/article/car-ne...ver-elon-musk-tweet-report-says#ixzz5RZHGENpZ

 

[sirbob]

Musk to face criminal fraud charges from private sale tweets....


Federal prosecutors have opened up a fraud investigation weeks following Elon Musk's surprise tweet in August 2018 about taking the company private, Bloomberg reports, tweets that initially prompted its shares to skyrocket. Musk's tweets included a promise of "funding secured," which suggested to some observers that the company was in late stages of wrapping up a deal to buy back billions of dollars worth of shares and convert the publicly traded company into a private one.

It took only days for it to become apparent that Tesla was, at best, in the very early stages of such discussions and that the "funding secured" tweet was based on what can best be described as poor communication between Musk and the Saudi sovereign wealth fund (PIF). Days later, Tesla detailed the circumstances that led up to the tweets regarding converting Tesla into a private company, painting a strange picture of miscommunication and confusion on the part of its CEO.

"Going back almost two years, the Saudi Arabian sovereign wealth fund has approached me multiple times about taking Tesla private," Musk wrote in a blog post explaining the initial comments. "They first met with me at the beginning of 2017 to express this interest because of the important need to diversify away from oil. They then held several additional meetings with me over the next year to reiterate this interest and to try to move forward with a going private transaction. Obviously, the Saudi sovereign fund has more than enough capital needed to execute on such a transaction."



Read more: https://autoweek.com/article/car-ne...ver-elon-musk-tweet-report-says#ixzz5RZHGENpZ

I hate misleading headlines - the fact that they are opening a fraud investigation is NOT the same as saying "Musk to face criminal fraud charges from private sale tweets"

Not sure if that come from the story or if its your head line???

That said, id love to see that guy get his chained tightened! As a non Musk guy.

 

[SBMech]

I hate misleading headlines - the fact that they are opening a fraud investigation is NOT the same as saying "Musk to face criminal fraud charges from private sale tweets"

Not sure if that come from the story or if its your head line???

That said, id love to see that guy get his chained tightened! As a non Musk guy.

That was my bad, it actually does say investigation. Sorry everyone! Edited.

 

[sirbob]

That was my bad, it actually does say investigation. Sorry everyone! Edited.

I wish he was charged!

He has done a lot of great stuff and I don't begrudge his success or wealth - I just don't like this style.

 

[Enen]

Who wants to patent an adapter that will allow Porsches to charge on Tesla's stations?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I can see it now.. The same excuse from Zuckerburg et al from Silicon Valley-

"I'm reeeeeally sorry we got this so wrong. We will work to do better next time."

Followed by - "There just so happens to be a free Tesla Model S giveaway downstairs for everyone in the grand jury room today!."

 

[Uncle Dave]

Doesn't seem to have made much difference in the stock price.

Meanwhile the Saudis put a billion into lucid instead.


The charging things a shit show already- with various voltages and standards already competing.

The first round of porsche chargers will be just like Nissans - at the dealerships.
Ok for in town use if typically a bit of a drive but for a road trip, dealership chargers are about as useful as tits on a boar.

The freeway exit chargers are all that matter in that use.

Tesla owns this market and continually improves and tweaks it - example they just bumped the idle fee to .50 cents a minute for hanging out taking a stall when not charging after 5 minutes, and the " free charging deal" is long gone. (for those that complained limited charging giveaway would ruin the company)

Well see where Porsche puts the minority remainder at - and if it becomes a "usable" road trip vehicle in a few years or not.

Then there is the whole detail of how fast each spigot runs at each place when the load is split up between cars- even the faceplate # at a given charger is no guarantee of charging rate and we won't know any of this till the porsche community starts feeding back to us how they "really" work.

When Tesla or Nissan were at charging wise where Porsche claims they will be- the held view by the gas and electric community is that its almost nothing maybe not technically "zero"- but nothing meaningful to something like 99.6% of potential buyers.

UD

 

[highvoltagehands]

Porsche is not at 0 today - they have installed power stations in Europe and ATL here in the US...

The plan seems to be to launch at the same time they have implimented 500 charging stations. Of course that is not the same as Tesla but the real issue may be - will the car companies look to control the power stations or will independent companies own and control the stations (i.e. exon mobil)...

I think there is going to be a bunch off leap frogging before this even starts to settle - and by then Tesla autos will be part of a bigger car company and the discussions will be made in the old fashion way about whether not they even want to own those superstations.

As a side note - Porsche at this time plans to make their power stations a profit center.


Porsche to deploy a network of 500 EV charging stations in North America in time for Mission E next year
Fred Lambert

- Apr. 16th 2018 11:08 am ET

Porsche’s North America Chief has confirmed that the German automaker is planning to deploy a network of 500 electric vehicle charging stations in North America just in time for the Mission E next year.

Klaus Zellmer, CEO of Porsche Cars North America, confirmed the details to Automotive News today.

He said that 500 stations will be installed in the US at their dealerships (189 of them) and the rest will cover highways around the country.

An additional 20 stations are planned in Canada.

Zellmer confirmed that the process has already started and that a third-party vendor has been visiting the sites and dealerships in order to prepare for the deployment, which they aim to be completed by the second half of 2019 – just when Porsche is expected to start producing the Mission E, its first all-electric vehicle.

The CEO added about the cost of the project:

it’s not a minor cost. It certainly is six-digit numbers that our dealers will have to take.

The station would be used to enable long-distance travel, but the CEO also added that they are considering a network of chargers for destinations, similar to Tesla’s Destination Charging network.

Electrek’s Take

We already had a pretty good idea of what to expect since Porsche deployed their new 800-volt fast-charging technology at their North American headquarters in Atlanta last year.

But it’s still very good news for EV infrastructure because the extent of their plans for their own network wasn’t exactly clear due to comments indicating that they might instead simply rely on the Ionity charging network in Europe and Volkswagen’s Electrify America network in the US.

Now it’s clear that they want their own network to support the Mission E and their future all-electric vehicles.

As we previously reported, Porsche claims the Mission E is capable of supporting a 350 kW charging rate, which could charge up the Mission E’s battery pack to 80% in about 15 minutes.

Now, they want to have stations that will be able to charge at that rate in order to support the vehicle.

We reported on them building the first of those stations in Germany. They claimed that the backend supports 350 kW charge rate, but it can currently charge at 50 to 150 kW. They had to develop a new transformer in order to support the charge points.

An automaker-owned network can be quite useful for drivers as demonstrated by Tesla’s very successful Supercharger network.

But interestingly, Porsche previously said they were working for the ultra fast-charging infrastructure to also work with Tesla and other EVs.

For those reasons, it will be interesting to follow the development of the network over the next year.

I think all these electric car companies need to get on the same page and adopt a universal charging standard if EV is going really succeed as well as possible. Tesla has the head start and has signed letters of commitment with many utilities and will allow others to use their charging stations, so this might be a good place to start. The Porsche proposal sounds very functional and existing could adapt to it. Not sure how to fix it, but united we succeed, divided we fail.

 

[pronstar]

I think all these electric car companies need to get on the same page and adopt a universal charging standard if EV is going really succeed as well as possible. Tesla has the head start and has signed letters of commitment with many utilities and will allow others to use their charging stations, so this might be a good place to start. The Porsche proposal sounds very functional and existing could adapt to it. Not sure how to fix it, but united we succeed, divided we fail.

There are charging standards, but these newbs keep trying to bring new tech to the table.

It’s gonna be Betamax vs VHS if they keep it up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[spectras only]

Vancouver is big fan of EV vehicles. Local Chinese billionaire running Concordia developments, plans to install 500 DC charging stations. My guess would be, he'll choose the Swiss company ABB for its DC charging system. 350KW, according to ABB, it's almost 3 times faster than Tesla's Supercharging.
https://www.autochargers.ca/files/1334hsruotqnwa/4EVC204301-LFUS-RevC_Terra53CJ.pdf

350KW> https://new.abb.com/news/detail/443...launch-of-first-350-kw-high-power-car-charger
As title partner of Formula E, the fully electric international FIA motorsport class, ABB is pushing the boundaries of e-mobility to contribute to a sustainable future. ABB operates in more than 100 countries with about 135,000 employees. www.abb.com

 

[Uncle Dave]

That ABB charger is pretty cool.

Entrepreneurially speaking - the existence of these things allows anyone with sufficient access to juice to become a charging station- no more dependence on the oil companies.

Add a driveway extension to your house - put one in, list it on the web - and you are in business add wifi, and coffee and make more.
Put some panels on your roof and offset it a bit more even - electricity is fungible.

Given it will work with 400 and 800 watt (trucks) vehicles. You've got a wide range of vehicle capability with that thing.

Road trips really show how the battery rides really work vs what people think they work like.

The thing that's misleading about simply saying this or that charger is faster than say (they all benchmark the Tesla supercharger) and quoting fill up times is that it just doesn't work that way - battery charging is never based on linear math because the pack itself dictates what charge rate it can take at what time load and temp and all of those external factors plus what your vehicle itself can sustain as far as pack cooling determines how fast you can safely fill it.

If all your pack will accept is 150KWH having a 350KW charger buys you squat above the 150.
Giant truck packs are likely the only ones to ever see full output of that for any appreciable time.

Charging also isn't linear with the 10- 80% coming in much quicker than the rest.
A 100% fill is a multi-hour slog best left for overnight recharging at a slower pace vs slamming them in as quickly as possible, the first 10% of a battery almost always get a lower charger rate - so the middle 70% is where your sweet spot for a road trip is - go outside of that sweet spot and at time spent at chargers rises more than the deltas of shorter stops and the overall length of the trip goes up.

UD

 

[Sleek-Jet]

That ABB charger is pretty cool.

Entrepreneurially speaking - the existence of these things allows anyone with sufficient access to juice to become a charging station- no more dependence on the oil companies.

Add a driveway extension to your house - put one in, list it on the web - and you are in business add wifi, and coffee and make more.
Put some panels on your roof and offset it a bit more even - electricity is fungible.

Given it will work with 400 and 800 watt (trucks) vehicles. You've got a wide range of vehicle capability with that thing.

Road trips really show how the battery rides really work vs what people think they work like.

The thing that's misleading about simply saying this or that charger is faster than say (they all benchmark the Tesla supercharger) and quoting fill up times is that it just doesn't work that way - battery charging is never based on linear math because the pack itself dictates what charge rate it can take at what time load and temp and all of those external factors plus what your vehicle itself can sustain as far as pack cooling determines how fast you can safely fill it.

If all your pack will accept is 150KWH having a 350KW charger buys you squat above the 150.
Giant truck packs are likely the only ones to ever see full output of that for any appreciable time.

Charging also isn't linear with the 10- 80% coming in much quicker than the rest.
A 100% fill is a multi-hour slog best left for overnight recharging at a slower pace vs slamming them in as quickly as possible, the first 10% of a battery almost always get a lower charger rate - so the middle 70% is where your sweet spot for a road trip is - go outside of that sweet spot and at time spent at chargers rises more than the deltas of shorter stops and the overall length of the trip goes up.

UD

That is a falicy perpetuated by the EV fanboys.

Our dependence on carbon based energy will not end just because your car does not run on hydrocarbons. Again, we call Tesla's coal powered cars for a reason.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Your description although accurate- is not my point.

My point is not that there is or is not "oil" or coal in the energy production mix.

My point is you can sell "fuel" or really "energy" at an individual level without an oil company in the middle. With a ratemeter (ABBB charger) I can sell my own power to a stranger with only a contract between he and I.

If you bought 20-30K in batteries as storage - and powered it all off your roof the only people that would need to know are you and the credit card company processing the charges for you at the "pump".

Any electric car can only be as clean as the grid feeding it -however clean it is or isn't your vehicle's energy is or isn't - a gas auto can never be cleaner than the fuel- an electric auto can be as clean as the source mix but varies everywhere - we talked about that already way back in this thread, but its been a looong thread for sure.


UD

 

[rrrr]

Tell the children mining cobalt in the Congo how green EVs are.

 

[SBMech]

Your description although accurate- is not my point.

My point is not that there is or is not "oil" or coal in the energy production mix.

My point is you can sell "fuel" or really "energy" at an individual level without an oil company in the middle. With a ratemeter (ABBB charger) I can sell my own power to a stranger with only a contract between he and I.

If you bought 20-30K in batteries as storage - and powered it all off your roof the only people that would need to know are you and the credit card company processing the charges for you at the "pump".

Any electric car can only be as clean as the grid feeding it -however clean it is or isn't your vehicle's energy is or isn't - a gas auto can never be cleaner than the fuel- an electric auto can be as clean as the source mix but varies everywhere - we talked about that already way back in this thread, but its been a looong thread for sure.


UD

a gas auto can never be cleaner than the fuel- an electric auto can be as clean as the source mix but varies everywhere

There is really very little difference in EV construction verses an ICE vehicle. They are just as dirty, since they still need almost everything that a ICE vehicle does.

Foundries and machine shops still need to make all the housings, windings, bearings and cases, as well as the chassis components.

Bearings, electronics, interiors, glues, epoxies, wiring, not to mention the lubricant in the transmissions & bearings, "batteries" ,even the electric motors are very dirty to build on a component level.

Tires, wheels, the list goes on and on. They are so close actually if you sit down and do all the math and numbers, you would truly believe it is a complete fallacy on the consumer to even call them "green".

Just like most things in society, it's a narrative to spin public opinion and make money.

After they have been in service for a few hundred thousand miles, they MIGHT pull ahead as far as money spent, but we'll have to see about that, since very few have done more than 100k yet.

I have seen many hybrids require batteries before the expected life span was reached, and a good percentage of the first few years of Tesla models had complete drive train replacements.

Add all that together, it's a joke IMO.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Or lithium mines

Can't speak for how BYD or others might source but I am familiar with how Tesla does it-

Tesla sources from certified mines from an approved list of suppliers as part of the conflict mineral reporting act.
They also demand componentry they buy for internal use offer component traceability all the way to the mine.
About as good as corporations get.

UD

 

[SBMech]

About your thoughts on being a "electric service station" good info, I'd like to see how fast they put a stop to that haha

 

[SBMech]

Or lithium mines

Can't speak for how BYD or others might source but I am familiar with how Tesla does it-

Tesla sources from certified mines from an approved list of suppliers as part of the conflict mineral reporting act.
They also demand componentry they buy for internal use offer component traceability all the way to the mine.
About as good as corporations get.

UD

As much as I would like to believe that, after seeing how corrupt our government is here in America, the most controlled environment on the planet, I have a hard time believing that a "material reporting act" in a foreign country could possibly be without some flaws or outright lies.

Call me crazy, I know, in this day and age I just have a hard time trusting any "planetary organization", since pretty much without fail all of the world wide shit like Red Cross etc have all been busted for scamming.

 

[Uncle Dave]

There is really very little difference in EV construction verses an ICE vehicle. They are just as dirty, since they still need almost everything that a ICE vehicle does.

Foundries and machine shops still need to make all the housings, windings, bearings and cases, as well as the chassis components.

Bearings, electronics, interiors, glues, epoxies, wiring, not to mention the lubricant in the transmissions & bearings, "batteries" ,even the electric motors are very dirty to build on a component level.

Tires, wheels, the list goes on and on. They are so close actually if you sit down and do all the math and numbers, you would truly believe it is a complete fallacy on the consumer to even call them "green".

Just like most things in society, it's a narrative to spin public opinion and make money.

After they have been in service for a few hundred thousand miles, they MIGHT pull ahead as far as money spent, but we'll have to see about that, since very few have done more than 100k yet.

I have seen many hybrids require batteries before the expected life span was reached, and a good percentage of the first few years of Tesla models had complete drive train replacements.

Add all that together, it's a joke IMO.

It'd certainly be interesting to see a real breakdown of the costs by a third party. I think hundreds of thousands of gallons of one-time use fuel are likely to make it hard to beat the electrics - but I haven't yet seen a real throwdown.

Either way I could care less about green.
Green certainly has nothing to do with why I bought a hybrid SUV - performance was.
Same reason I bought a high-end front load washer - performance, green was just a side benefit.

Fuel flexibility, vehicle performance, and a gas station at my house are the reasons to me.

 

[Uncle Dave]

As much as I would like to believe that, after seeing how corrupt our government is here in America, the most controlled environment on the planet, I have a hard time believing that a "material reporting act" in a foreign country could possibly be without some flaws or outright lies.

Call me crazy, I know, in this day and age I just have a hard time trusting any "planetary organization", since pretty much without fail all of the world wide shit like Red Cross etc have all been busted for scamming.

These same certs are good enough for military and medical compliance so they must have some teeth.

Nothings perfect but it's more serious than you'd think - about the best you can do is buy from public companies on both ends that offer guaranteed traceability and have agreed to iso XXXX or better compliance standards and subject to regular audits for everything in the place.

We've got a full-time compliance department getting our spec and ensuring we buy from the certified suppliers or we lose all the public company business we've built.

Its incredibly complex.

UD

 

[SBMech]

These same certs are good enough for military and medical compliance so they must have some teeth.

Nothings perfect but it's more serious than you'd think - about the best you can do is buy from public companies on both ends that offer guaranteed traceability and have agreed to iso XXXX or better compliance standards and subject to regular audits for everything in the place.

We've got a full-time compliance department getting our spec and ensuring we buy from the certified suppliers or we lose all the public company business we've built.

Its incredibly complex.

UD

That is good to hear. Some really horrible things being committed around the world these days, glad to know there is still a few people who give a shit.

 

[Uncle Dave]

About your thoughts on being a "electric service station" good info, I'd like to see how fast they put a stop to that haha

As long as you report income from the sale you are golden.

Too late to stop anyone - its already a going concern. Lots of people are selling charging time now -

take a look - just about any house can put in a 50 amp connector for some charging ability.

https://www.plugshare.com

UD

 

[SBMech]

As long as you report income from the sale you are golden.

Too late to stop anyone - its already a going concern. Lots of people are selling charging time now -

take a look - just about any house can put in a 50 amp connector for some charging ability.

https://www.plugshare.com

UD

Good info! Thanks for the link.

 

[Uncle Dave]

That is good to hear. Some really horrible things being committed around the world these days, glad to know there is still a few people who give a shit.

That's shits a nightmare to manage bro - giving a fuck is expensive.

UD

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I guess it comes down to what a consumer thinks is the lesser or to evils, the oil complex or the electrical one. If EVs and battery storage become a large part of the energy mix, we'll be fighting wars in central Africa over Cobalt. Because we don't have the minerals in the ground on this continent.

Enjoy the filling station in the front yard for Joe EV-driver while you can, that isn't going to last long.

I would love to have a couple of charging stations on my grid, they are good load. But we don't offer the incentive rate structures that make them attractive to the charging companies. Even though our energy prices are on par or cheaper than the IOU. I sit through the charging station presentations about once a quarter. "Free" is a key word. Nothing is free.

 

[Uncle Dave]

One thing is free - sunshine itself. Free fuel in its most base form.
Capturing it for use and or storing cost money - but that's a one-time long life expense with a potential payback vs a continuous burn with no break even ever.

We can control electric production better than oil with a blend of all kinds of resources available at home.
Still burning fossil fuel but using a mix we have better control of like natural gas, nukes, hydro, wind, solar, our own oil, coal if we need to use it.

The filling station in your front yard/garage/driveway - is actually what will last.
You may not be in a position to sell it for a profit- but it can always be your very own filling station and starting every morning with a full tank is a game changer.
You can bet there will be lots of independent charging stations popping up all over the place offering coffee food restrooms/ services etc.

Battery elements are a bit better spread all over the world - unlike oil.
Australia produces lots of lithium.
DRC is the top cobalt provider but rest of the world working hard to catch up.
Battery chemistry is also always changing - with lots of current effort being put into cobalt reduction.

The ever-shrinking price of a KWH of storage speaks to engineering around the resource problem.

Between Stalin and Mussolini who do you feel closer to? Neither particularly in my case - but if I'm stuck between two ways to skin a cat and one has an ROI or gives me greater control over the long haul - the decision starts to become easier.

UD

 

[KingofBeers]

And there it is. Elon Musk is being sued by the SEC on fraud allegations. Its about time.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/27/tesla-falls-4percent-on-report-elon-musk-sued-by-sec.html

 

[rrrr]

Start reading the pleadings at Paragraph 69. It and subsequent paragraphs are summary and detail of the charges.

This isn't going to turn out well for The One.

 

[MSum661]

Avoid this POS.

 

[Uncle Dave]

What's the prediction as to what will happen to Musk ?

Interesting its "Musk" and not Telsa the org.

UD

 

[KingofBeers]

What's the prediction as to what will happen to Musk ?

Interesting its "Musk" and not Telsa the org.

UD

Well, briefly looking through the docs the SEC is looking to bar Musk from serving on the board of a public company for LIFE.

The other serious issue I see here is this price slippage. Elon Musk borrowed against his stake in the company to buy more shares a little while back after he had publically taunted short sellers on twitter. If these fall below a level he will be liquidating a large position. This will almost certainly open tomorrow with a big, huge, filthy red candle.

here is an article about the leveraging that is going on.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimcol...s-financial-leverage-has-jumped/#6c70ca487099

 

[Uncle Dave]

Going to interesting and fun to watch for sure.

What do you think the stock will slip to?

UD

 

[KingofBeers]

Going to interesting and fun to watch for sure.

What do you think the stock will slip to?

UD

Who knows. It had a very small bounce at 265.56 after hours and is sitting at that level now. There is a pretty important level at 242.70...if it loses that its going to get ugly. Still an hour to go. I expect a big gap down in the morning.

You could also look at it and think maybe getting rid of Musk would be viewed as positive, you know to get an adult in there to run the show. The markets will soon tell us the answer!

 

[Uncle Dave]

That's pretty much what I said the last time doom was predicted that if it stays above the 52 week low it'll likely bounce back (which it did) as the fundamentals outrank Musk himself at this stage.

UD

 

[rcmike]

What is Tesla without Elon? Who will the believers worship? I mean, I am not a finance guy, but I do know a lot of the people who simply follow him.. It's like Steve Jobs and whatever new thing he was going to offer..

 

[Sleek-Jet]

FWIW Apple is worth more now than when Jobs was alive.

 

[KingofBeers]

Who knows. It had a very small bounce at 265.56 after hours and is sitting at that level now. There is a pretty important level at 242.70...if it loses that its going to get ugly. Still an hour to go. I expect a big gap down in the morning.

You could also look at it and think maybe getting rid of Musk would be viewed as positive, you know to get an adult in there to run the show. The markets will soon tell us the answer!

That's pretty much what I said the last time doom was predicted that if it stays above the 52 week low it'll likely bounce back (which it did) as the fundamentals outrank Musk himself at this stage.

UD

I think Tesla is such a cult stock that once Musk is officially out this will swirl the toilet in quick fashion. There is no way Musk will remain at this point. Every earnings call is a trainwreck and their financials are worse than terrible. Ive been saying for a while that bankruptcy is the endgame. There are too many auto manufacturers that are leaps and bounds ahead of Tesla in every way.

 

[MSum661]

Gonna turn into a carcass hunt.
Wait it out. JMO.

 

[Uncle Dave]

What is Tesla without Elon? Who will the believers worship? I mean, I am not a finance guy, but I do know a lot of the people who simply follow him.. It's like Steve Jobs and whatever new thing he was going to offer..

Apple fired Jobs and brought him back.

UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

I think Tesla is such a cult stock that once Musk is officially out this will swirl the toilet in quick fashion. There is no way Musk will remain at this point. Every earnings call is a trainwreck and their financials are worse than terrible. Ive been saying for a while that bankruptcy is the endgame. There are too many auto manufacturers that are leaps and bounds ahead of Tesla in every way.

I actually think Sandy Munro knows about the relative tech in this arena - and his conclusion is no one touches Teslas tech.

Who do you believe is ahead of Tesla in the electric vehicle vertical?

UD