Tesla Continues to collapse.

[Uncle Dave]

What data would you like me to put up specifically? I wasn’t implying that they spontaneously combust... what I’m saying is that when the battery cells are damaged, they may ignite instantly, in 5 minutes, or in 5 hours.

Any info that tells us how we worried about it we should or shouldn't be about them.
Aside from catastrophic destruction analysis of prior problems makes them seem like slow blow devices.

UD

 

[rrrr]

It's likely Tesla is withholding VIN numbers so next week they can release them and along with the week's production will be able to claim the elusive goal has been met.

Most people would see through that, but if it happens fanboy sites like Electrek will jizz themselves.

 

[SBMech]

Porsche just bought a stake in EV supercar maker Rimac; that should worry Tesla
Croatian EV tech developer aims to become battery and powertrain tech supplier


Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/hybrid-...e-electric-supercar-maker-rimac#ixzz5J4gZgRc5

Hmmm...some competition is coming apparently. Be interesting to see what unfolds with this.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Should say VW AG bought the stake because thats more accurate - they just ran the check through Porsche.
This is just the beginning the semis companies have already started and this is the USA Vs the world to get to an EV based transportation network.

Its clear - the EU wants the EV manufacturing market- benz is in it, everyones jumping in.

Its the USA vs the world here and if Tesla doesnt win the US will have lost its work leading position yet again to foreign competition -you can bet the EU and the asians will bak their industry with massive subsidy to take our jobs - dont think so? HA look at what they did with airbus.

Guys here are rooting for the US to fail and give away the manufacturing to the rest of the world

We talked about the expense of manufacturing - a completely solar roof can power a lot of manufacturing.

We have lots of sand to make glass and we can make electricity at the house level -
we dont have free oil- all our oil is inside of rock and its expensive to get out.

Imagine if you had a little gasoline factory that filled your tank up 10-20% a day? How cool would that be?
It could offset your purchasing and in times of low use actually supply enough for normal use.
If you had to pay 10K up front and it paid back in 5-7 years would you buy a little gasoline factory with no moving parts?


UD

 

[SBMech]

Is ex-Tesla employee a saboteur or a whistleblower?
Report: Ousted employee claims Tesla installed faulty batteries, overreported number of Model 3s produced


Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/car-new...s-hes-whistleblower-report-says#ixzz5JAZHBg3c

Interesting story.

 

[BasilHayden]

Just fyi Uncle Dave and SBMech re: solar output in 2016.


It is possible that the increase from '15 to '16 was that big. California by a huge margin has more solar than the rest of the country. Hawaii is saturated but how big is Hawaii in comparision to California, my guess is we have more solar in San Diego than in all of Hawaii, San Diego has more saturation than the rest of California even though Grads and his buddies up north are close to us. San Diego is reaching or has surpassed 10% depending on where the stat comes from. The increase from '15 to '16 was exponential, it flat out stunned the industry. In fact, it caused huge supply issues and also created huge management issues at the state and local level. '16 to '17 was also a huge increase though not as crazy, '18 is actually down in residential, though commercial activity is keeping it almost stable with '17.

Southern California and more specifically San Diego is the epicenter of Solar today. Many of the decisions made regarding the direction of the industries future paths are made in our boardrooms in So Cal. While I am far from the "BIG" players in the industry there is a reason why I hosted LG Solar's President and Chief exectives last week and Enphase's new Director of Sales and his team the previous week. It has been and continues to be a fun and rewarding ride, I had no idea what I was about to do when I started Palomar in 2008.

While I am not quoting specific stats above, it is a summary of info that I know as an active particiant in the industry who is aware of more than most due to my relationships with manufacturers and distributors. As noted the stats can be made to say anything and it depends on the agenda of the statistician as to whether or not you should remotely care what they say. I still maintain Solar is not the end all solution, but as a right leaning guy I admit it is part of the solution moving forward and is singularly the reason we arent dealing with constant brown outs today as we were 15 years ago.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Solar output was gigantic those years. Agreed solar isn't the end all but it is part of a better go forward solution.


Ok so here were are at the end of Q2 - not a collapse.

Elon says they made it to 5K.
Bloomberg has a bit less but we know their (and everyones for that matters) model has issues but well go with Bloombergs numbers for now.

Seems that the guys predicting his limiting factor was that he couldn't build the batteries fast enough might be dead wrong.
Did he miss the goal - probably by a little- but he came pretty close.
Well see what he sustains, but now hes got two lines pumping out cars.

I expect more of the typical balance beam on the topic with a brick at each end.

One side - haters will continue to hate, guys a liar thief and charlatan, nothing but a failure, has never done anything right, call the NSA and have him thrown in jail write a letter to you congressman, and boycott all his products.
Other side - Fanboys will insist the guy can do no wrong and worship at the altar of his feet whatever he makes and however late he is.

Im more in the middle - a lot can go wrong, a lot has, but he seems to have this on the right track delivering a substantive number of cars.
I suspect it will be a bit up and down for a while but the trend line looks pretty good.

Me- Im glad to see the US leading the world in this arena and hoping it will continue.

 

[rrrr]

.

It's likely Tesla is withholding VIN numbers so next week they can release them and along with the week's production will be able to claim the elusive goal has been met.

Most people would see through that, but if it happens fanboy sites like Electrek will jizz themselves.

.

Just as I predicted, Tesla skewed the numbers by counting already completed cars as being built this week.

They also prebuilt an unknown number of cars to 60-80% completion and ran them through their tent assembly line. This product was also counted as this week's work.

 

[Uncle Dave]

If he counted already complete cars his run rate will come crashing down again - could happen.

Why wouldn't cars rolling off a new line be counted - as long as they arent counted twice?

UD

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Don’t take delivery

If he counted already complete cars his run rate will come crashing down again - could happen.

Why wouldn't cars rolling off a new line be counted - as long as they arent counted twice?

UD

This was their Q2 end, right? I’m certain they would do anything possible to put their thumb on the scales to deliver “shareholder value” and “screw the shorts”. Because it gives them another quarter to “normalize” the production numbers.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Don’t take delivery


This was their Q2 end, right? I’m certain they would do anything possible to put their thumb on the scales to deliver “shareholder value” and “screw the shorts”. Because it gives them another quarter to “normalize” the production numbers.

This guy is in this position every quarter so nothing new on that front.

If he is doing what RRR is claiming some 3rd party is going to call him out.

Well see what he claims vs what the auditors say.

How do you think the street will react ?

UD

 

[rrrr]

Me- Im glad to see the US leading the world in this arena and hoping it will continue.

Chinese automaker BYD is building and selling more electric vehicles than Tesla, and because their vehicles are priced so the middle class can buy them, they are leading the world in the electric vehicle revolution, not Tesla. Of course, just like the American market, government subsidies alter the true demand for the BYD vehicles.

When the Model 3s on deposit are built and delivered, that will satisfy the immediate demand for the vehicle. Coupled with the expiration of government subsidies, sales will quickly plateau.

Tesla is using several strategies to artificially manipulate sales figures. One scheme is delivering more vehicles to Canada than demand can absorb. This reduces the number of US vehicles sold. Tesla has accelerated this subterfuge in the last few weeks, and it's because their aggregate US unit sales are nearing the 200,000 mark.

When this sales figure is reached, the countdown clock on the $7,500 tax credit awarded to EV buyers begins its final closeout. Two quarters after the 200K event, the subsidy will be reduced by 50%, and the second quarter afterwards it will be halved again. The subsidy will disappear entirely within 24 months of the 200K sale.

Tesla also skews the data by weekly issuing large blocks of VINs before the actual vehicle is produced, and counting those as sales. The frequent assembly line shutdowns and parts shortages in the last six months illustrate how this method works to inflate production numbers.

The issue I have with the Model 3 sales figures is how Tesla has left no stone unturned in finding and using manipulative schemes to inflate production numbers. You might think a company that has publicly embraced the green aspect of their vehicles in publicity campaigns and corporate press releases would also act in an admirably transparent manner, but with Tesla the exact opposite is occurring.

Elon Musk's repeated false assertions that Everything Is Wonderful are what one expects to see from Big Oil or Russian Oligarchies, not a butterflies and daisies Friend Of The Planet and Children.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

This guy is in this position every quarter so nothing new on that front.

If he is doing what RRR is claiming some 3rd party is going to call him out.

Well see what he claims vs what the auditors say.

How do you think the street will react ?

UD

Well he keeps doubling down and then missing.. so I think most are starting to see through the smoke.

What the cash burn was to actually make that many cars that quickly is unclear, and if it is sustainable is unclear.

The financials should look better eventually because of the layoffs. I’ll bet most got some kind of package, so it may be a quarter or 2 before the improvements are seen, if at all.

Good article that outlines skepticism pretty fairly.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...-wouldmake-this-tesla-bear-buy-the-stock.html

 

[Uncle Dave]

Chinese automaker BYD is building and selling more electric vehicles than Tesla, and because their vehicles are priced so the middle class can buy them, they are leading the world in the electric vehicle revolution, not Tesla.

When the Model 3s on deposit are built and delivered, that will satisfy the immediate demand for the vehicle. Coupled with the expiration of government subsidies, sales will quickly plateau.

I haven't seen a recent comparison of BYD to Tesla in terms of cars, models, feature comparisons and charging networks milestones - but we may be behind them.

Do you have data to look at that compares these things?

Im not is sure Id want to try to predict the future.

If the model threes on deposit carry to deliveries it will be one of the most successful launches of any vehicle ever.

Im certain they wont convert all their pre order into deliveries but It looks for sure like they will win the crown of best selling vehicle in category.


UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

Well he keeps doubling down and then missing.. so I think most are starting to see through the smoke.

What the cash burn was to actually make that many cars that quickly is unclear, and if it is sustainable is unclear.

The financials should look better eventually because of the layoffs. I’ll bet most got some kind of package, so it may be a quarter or 2 before the improvements are seen, if at all.

Good article that outlines skepticism pretty fairly.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...-wouldmake-this-tesla-bear-buy-the-stock.html

The article has pros and cons - the last sentence is interesting.

"Friday marked the 8th anniversary of its IPO. Since making its market debut at $17 a share, Tesla has surged 1,917 percent."


UD

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The article has pros and cons - the last sentence is interesting.

"Friday marked the 8th anniversary of its IPO. Since making its market debut at $17 a share, Tesla has surged 1,917 percent."


UD

That is a good return, but I don’t feel the current valuation is justified. I don’t know who would jump in now.

 

[Uncle Dave]

That is a good return, but I don’t feel the current valuation is justified. I don’t know who would jump in now.

Seems about 50% of analysts feel its justified.

I remember it not being justified all the way from 50 bucks - I clocked out I think at 250.

Happy to take money off the table.

Lots of stocks - are simply to late to " get in".

UD

 

[rrrr]

I haven't seen a recent comparison of BYD to Tesla in terms of cars, models, feature comparisons and charging networks milestones - but we may be behind them.

Do you have data to look at that compares these things?

UD

China's EV charger network is significantly larger than that of the United States.

China’s national grid is investing in EV charging stations. It expects to put Rmb25bn into charging stations by 2020; there are already 171,000 nationwide according to Xinhua, China’s official news service. This compares with 45,000 charging outlets and 16,000 electric stations in the US, according to official data.

https://www.ft.com/content/18afe28e-a1d2-11e7-8d56-98a09be71849

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Seems about 50% of analysts feel its justified.

I remember it not being justified all the way from 50 bucks - I clocked out I think at 250.

Happy to take money off the table.

Lots of stocks - are simply to late to " get in".

UD

Correct.

As far as the valuation.. there is an ass for every seat. Stock price does not always equal valuation.

 

[Uncle Dave]

China's EV charger network is significantly larger than that of the United States.



https://www.ft.com/content/18afe28e-a1d2-11e7-8d56-98a09be71849

Ill dig into that - no BYD info?

I think the thing with the charging grid Ive read elswhere is that a plug inst a plug isnt a plug but thats good info Ill check out.




UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

Correct.

As far as the valuation.. there is an ass for every seat. Stock price does not always equal valuation.

since stock price is a direct component of valuation I think what you mean to say (and I dont want to put words in anyones mouth) is that not all stock prices are justifiable?

UD

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

since stock price is a direct component of valuation I think what you mean to say (and I dont want to put words in anyones mouth) is that not all stock prices are justifiable?

UD

Yes that is the correct way of putting it

 

[highvoltagehands]

Just fyi Uncle Dave and SBMech re: solar output in 2016.


It is possible that the increase from '15 to '16 was that big. California by a huge margin has more solar than the rest of the country. Hawaii is saturated but how big is Hawaii in comparision to California, my guess is we have more solar in San Diego than in all of Hawaii, San Diego has more saturation than the rest of California even though Grads and his buddies up north are close to us. San Diego is reaching or has surpassed 10% depending on where the stat comes from. The increase from '15 to '16 was exponential, it flat out stunned the industry. In fact, it caused huge supply issues and also created huge management issues at the state and local level. '16 to '17 was also a huge increase though not as crazy, '18 is actually down in residential, though commercial activity is keeping it almost stable with '17.

Southern California and more specifically San Diego is the epicenter of Solar today. Many of the decisions made regarding the direction of the industries future paths are made in our boardrooms in So Cal. While I am far from the "BIG" players in the industry there is a reason why I hosted LG Solar's President and Chief exectives last week and Enphase's new Director of Sales and his team the previous week. It has been and continues to be a fun and rewarding ride, I had no idea what I was about to do when I started Palomar in 2008.

While I am not quoting specific stats above, it is a summary of info that I know as an active particiant in the industry who is aware of more than most due to my relationships with manufacturers and distributors. As noted the stats can be made to say anything and it depends on the agenda of the statistician as to whether or not you should remotely care what they say. I still maintain Solar is not the end all solution, but as a right leaning guy I admit it is part of the solution moving forward and is singularly the reason we arent dealing with constant brown outs today as we were 15 years ago.

Good to hear BH, I agree solar energy is emerging as a viable source w/ incredible growth potential. I work for Cupertino Electric Inc. Our Alternative Energy Solar Division has been shining brightly with EPC built over 2.5 Gigawatts PV Power at Sempra/Con ED Copper Mountain Solar 3 in Boulder City, SCE Porterville Farm, PG&E 5 Points, Helm and Huron Farms. They've done a lot of Energy Storage Management Systems to deal with increased supply issues. They expect long term Solar growth tied to the emerging Smart Grid technologies.

 

[Bigbore500r]

.
Just as I predicted, Tesla skewed the numbers by counting already completed cars as being built this week.

They also prebuilt an unknown number of cars to 60-80% completion and ran them through their tent assembly line. This product was also counted as this week's work.

So you're saying Tesla is the Magic Powerboats of EV's ....
Who's flooring the Tesla's?

 

[Raffit78]

looks like Tesla stock downgraded once again. Numbers reached are unsustainable.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/02/tes...s-its-production-rate-is-not-sustainable.html



He literally built tents to try to meet demand. Like, that's what production demand has came to. Portable outdoor space just to meet demand. I can't imagine someone buying a $75,000.00 car feels good seeing their car being built this way. Maybe it's just me. I dunno.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

looks like Tesla stock downgraded once again. Numbers reached are unsustainable.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/02/tes...s-its-production-rate-is-not-sustainable.html



He literally built tents to try to meet demand. Like, that's what production demand has came to. Portable outdoor space just to meet demand. I can't imagine someone buying a $75,000.00 car feels good seeing their car being built this way. Maybe it's just me. I dunno.

I would not accept one built in q2 or q3 of this year.

TSLA fanboys be like - “My car is so green it was built in a tent, just for MEEE!”

 

[SBMech]

Tesla is sending out e-mails to all Model 3 reservation holders in North America this week informing them that their electric sedans are ready to order and asking for an additional $2,500 to fulfill their orders.

The move could help Tesla in its drive toward profitability this year. Chairman and CEO Elon Musk has promised Tesla would not only be able to produce 5,000 Model 3s per week by the end of this quarter, but that the electric vehicle maker should be profitable and cash flow positive in the second half of the year.

Tesla ended the first quarter with a cash balance of $2.7 billion. It said then that it still expects to spend $3 billion. Deposits for Model 3 vehicles would give Tesla some of the cash that it needs without having to further dilute earnings through stock sales or by issuing debt.


Would-be Model 3 owners already put down a $1,000 refundable deposit to “reserve” one of Tesla’s Model 3s. Those reservation holders must pay an additional $2,500 to turn their reservations into an order, at which point the original $1,000 deposit goes toward the overall payment for the car. Buyers can cancel their orders within three days for a full refund, the company confirmed, but after that their money is Tesla’s for good.

All money paid upfront goes toward the price of the car. This is how Tesla's "pre-sales" have generally worked.

Buyers who confirm won't immediately get a specific delivery date, but Tesla's email says delivery could happen "in as soon as 2-4 months." Tesla typically schedules delivery or pickup appointments within two weeks of the date they expect to deliver a Model 3 to a customer.

The company has not yet manufactured a base-model version of the Model 3, which it has promised to sell for $35,000. Instead, it's produced versions with premium features, such as longer range, a higher top speed and all-wheel drive, which cost between $49,000 and $72,000.

 

[sirbob]

Good news bad news...

 

[pronstar]

They just had a 7-day stretch where they hit the 5k/week mark.

Then Elon immediately promised 6k/week.

The guy’s ballsy, that’s for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

They just had a 7-day stretch where they hit the 5k/week mark.

Then Elon immediately promised 6k/week.

The guy’s ballsy, that’s for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Would you buy a car hastily slapped together in a temporary tent?

 

[Yellowboat]

Would you buy a car hastily slapped together in a temporary tent?

Nope, but I bet a lot of the people that are buying them would not know the difference

 

[Raffit78]

After all, most of their fan base is all about “green living” tents aren’t a far fetch....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pronstar]

Would you buy a car hastily slapped together in a temporary tent?

No, but I wouldn’t want to buy an Audi built in Mexico, either [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[regor]

Tesla Compared To Theranos After Musk Halted Critical Brake Test To Boost Output

 

[SBMech]

One of the biggest mysteries to emerge from Tesla's mad dash scramble over the past week to hit its 5,000 Model 3 production quota in a week, was the question: what is a "factory gated" model and why are so many of the Model 3s produced by Musk not quite "production quality."

In addressing this question yesterday, Vertical Group's Gordon Johnson offered this explanation:

TSLA mentioned that it reached 5,031 Model 3 cars of “factory gated” production in the last week of June; while the company said it has used the “factory gated” terminology all along, we were not able to find this term in any SEC filings or public transcripts; however, looking to Linkedin, it seems “factory gated” may mean cars that require further testing and quality inspection upon leaving the factory floor (Exhibit 1) – this would mean these cars are likely not “full production vehicles” in the traditional sense of auto industry terminology;

The implication of the above is that in its rush to produce as many Model 3s as possible, Tesla was slashing quality control corners, and not producing fully QC-compliant units, which while perhaps permissible when producing less sophisticated goods, is clearly controversial to say the least when the product in question is a car that already has a spotty record of crashes and safety.

But while Johnson's speculation sounds accurate, is that really what happened?

Now, courtesy of Business Insider, we not only have confirmation but also evidence that Musk's quality control transgressions were especially acute: according to the report, which was based on internal Tesla documents provided to BI by what appears to be a whistleblower, "Musk appears to have asked engineers at his Fremont, California factory to remove a standard brake test, called the brake and roll test, from the tasks Model 3 cars must complete in order to move through production."

In order to maximize output and hit the company's weekly output quota, Musk went all out, eliminating what he considered non-critical "tests" to push out as many cars as possible:

The test was apparently shut down before 3 am on Tuesday, June 26, according to a person familiar with the matter. It's unclear why this particular test was halted.

And while Musk clearly thought the test was redundant, or at least of secondary importance, others disagree and according to one industry expert, the brake and roll test is a critical part of the car manufacturing process, taking place during its final stages.

Uhh ohh. That does not look good.

 

[Raffit78]

so basically, the next wave of cash needed, is to build service centers?

 

[Sleek-Jet]

They just had a 7-day stretch where they hit the 5k/week mark.

Then Elon immediately promised 6k/week.

The guy’s ballsy, that’s for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

"When Cortez landed in the new world, he burned his ships. As a result, his men were well motivated." - Marco Ramius

 

[SBMech]

Here's what a race-ready Tesla Model S P100D looks like around a track
Tiff Needell puts a Tesla to the test around a hot Barcelona track and finds battery cooling is an issue

It looks like a fleet of Tesla Model S sedans is getting closer to duking it out around a racetrack, judging by this P100DL Model S-turned-race rig. The Tesla, which will take part in the Electric Production Car Series, or EPCS, is a heavily reworked production car that shed 1,102 pounds since it left the factory. In order to drop that much weight, the standard Tesla bodywork has been replaced with lightweight flax-fiber composite panels and the interior has been completely stripped -- save for its essential touchscreen infotainment system.

According to Tiff Needell of “Top Gear” and “Fifth Gear” fame, the car is shockingly quiet, with the only indication that one is speeding around a racetrack being wind noise from the windows. The hot test day at the Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya in Barcelona quickly took its toll on the Tesla’s battery pack and forced Needell to head back to the pits on reduced power.



Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/hybrid-...odel-s-p100d-looks-around-track#ixzz5KUJFT7ra


Interesting article about trying to race a Tesla.

 

[PaPaG]

Just wait til their Cheerleaders, Investors and Share Holders SOUR as they are slowly doing, then you will see catastrophic decline in their stock now even more than ever especially after other much larger entities such as VW, Benz and other big boys roll out their electrics, they have the means for sales, repair, maintenance and PRODUCTION that Tesla will never have until they are bought by one of the big boys or when they go out of business.. JMO...time will tell...

 

[Uncle Dave]

So far the build rate is sustained at least for the second week of the quarter.

Interestingly Bloomberg and tesla disagreed by about 500 cars last week with Bloomberg being pessimistic and Elon claiming 5K+

This week Bloombergs model see 5100+ cars I t will be interesting to see if Elon comments indicate higher or lower, or if he comments at all.

The analysts commentary I forget the name #21 best known or something like that - about the ability to build the batteries quickly enough is at the very least strained by the last two weeks output of far greater than he claimed would be the gating build factor (I believe he said 3K was a gate) maybe not.

- on the race car, I think the stripped down street package probably falls way short of the race need in the cooling departments.

I think when its done right by the factory the result is nearly unbeatable - as in what happened at pikes peak recently.


UD

 

[pronstar]

A Tesla’s performance on a racetrack is irrelevant IMHO. It’s meaningless for what the car is designed for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Uncle Dave]

A Tesla’s performance on a racetrack is irrelevant IMHO. It’s meaningless for what the car is designed for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I think guys buying high end cars want to know how it will compete against everything else in the class so in that regard I think a stock car should be able to cut at least a lap or two on a regular 75 degree day, but most passenger cars overheat quickly as well.
Stock automatic vettes without the z51 cooling packages are notorious for track overheating.

I think the drag strip performance is important and part of the allure of the EV drivetrain.

In terms of non stock type racing - agreed - without factory or serious backing to mod the thing its trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

UD

 

[spectras only]

How long is a pit stop? > NASCAR pit crews are key to a driver's success.
Crews aim to complete the stop inside 12 seconds.
Head coach of the 48 pit crew at Hendrick Motorsports explains the art of pit crew.
During a NASCAR race, drivers do hundreds of laps at speeds of more than 300 kilometers per hour

How long is to replace a battery in a Tesla?

 

[Uncle Dave]

I certainly don't see it being competitive in a nascar type series or endurance type race (24H lemans./Sebring...)

.... but I don't know anyone who ever said it could?

I think the fastest battery change speed was a prototype that took about 3/4 as long as filling a car at gas station, but it isnt really available or real.

UD

 

[spectras only]

I certainly don't see it being competitive in a nascar type series or endurance type race (24H lemans./Sebring...)

.... but I don't know anyone who ever said it could?

I think the fastest battery change speed was a prototype that took about 3/4 as long as filling a car at gas station, but it isnt really available or real.

UD

Never mind Nascar or 24HR LM type racing. I'd like to see then, how would Tesla perform on track days with just 20 minute lap times. What is the point to even take the car to the track as Tiff pointed out, if it overheats and loosing power in just one session? Musk has the ego 1000 times over Trump's, trying to prove something.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Never mind Nascar or 24HR LM type racing. I'd like to see then, how would Tesla perform on track days with just 20 minute lap times. What is the point to even take the car to the track as Tiff pointed out, if it overheats and loosing power in just one session? Musk has the ego 1000 times over Trump's, trying to prove something.

I think ev "racing" is a matter of niche today and will take a while to be remotely comparable.
I think we are starting to see them on tracks more and more so well see how it goes over time, I suspect they will improve like everything else.
Especially if he's talking about truck and now potential F150 competitor.

One niche would be pikes peak- an ev car just slaughtered everything and set a new record so clearly in some areas- they compete and win.

I think lots of guys and companies take projects to the track and this was likely one of them.

I think both guys have vast egos because they have both accomplished a lot - but in very different ways from very different starting positions.


UD

 

[spectras only]

I could see myself to own a Tesla as a grocery getter. short distance commuter. Would never trade the roar of a piston engined car on the track for a silent EV one. The sounds and vibrations is part of the experience being on a track. My car is as crude as it gets in that respect.

 

[RitcheyRch]

Also a dealer where you can test drive one before making the large purchase.

Just wait til their Cheerleaders, Investors and Share Holders SOUR as they are slowly doing, then you will see catastrophic decline in their stock now even more than ever especially after other much larger entities such as VW, Benz and other big boys roll out their electrics, they have the means for sales, repair, maintenance and PRODUCTION that Tesla will never have until they are bought by one of the big boys or when they go out of business.. JMO...time will tell...

 

[Uncle Dave]

I could see myself to own a Tesla as a grocery getter. short distance commuter. Would never trade the roar of a piston engined car on the track for a silent EV one. The sounds and vibrations is part of the experience being on a track. My car is as crude as it gets in that respect.

I so get it - as a guy with a 700HP viper engine in one of my boats.

UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

Also a dealer where you can test drive one before making the large purchase.

You can schedule a test drive. The guys at their sales outlets have them for this purpose.

If your state only allows franchised dealerships you'll have to go to another state.

UD