Speed UTV take 3

[rivermobster]

They told them this way back when they ordered the car, and optioned it with the windshield? Or after they found out when the first cars were delivered running around with windshields and were getting hot?

It's on their website somewhere. I remember reading it at some point in time.

Nevertheless...

You're not wrong. It is a chicken shit way to do business.

 

[BHC Vic]

 

[NIKAL]

Regardless of how you wanna describe it - The car overheats when you run the factory offered / installed windshield, in fact Dave's car blew the headgasket because of it.

Speed not fixing the issue, is leaving it up to customers to figure out how to fix what they bought. That was my point, and I think that's bogus.

It entirely possibly to have a rear mounted radiator with a windshield and enclosed cab. Why would you make this the consumers problem, when you sold them the car with those installed options? Speed didn't engineer the rear mounted radiator adequately, and should fix it and not leave it up to the customers.

I guess Speed could fix the problem by recalling all the windshields back. Give a refund and to those who don’t return the windshield get told that if their car has any overheating issues, it’s not covered under warranty.

Would that suffice?

When they first started building the car people begged for a windshield. Robby said I think we can do that. They built one and during testing found out that over 70ish degrees the water temp got to hot. So they said, if you get a windshield, you can’t run it in warmer weather. It’s no secret that the car is not designed to run a windshield in warmer weather.

Several like me, realized this was not going to work and asked for a refund or credit for the windshield that we ordered, and Speed obliged.

I know of two people who had very nice prerun buggy’s and both struggled with water & oil temps when running windshields.

 

[rivrrts429]

They told them this way back when they ordered the car, and optioned it with the windshield?

Or.....after they found out when the first cars were delivered running around with windshields and were getting hot?

As of right now, I can go on the SpeedUTV website, order a car, order a windsield, and plunk down a $4500 NON REFUNDABLE deposit + $1,148 for the windshield, with no mention that you can't run it over 70 degrees without overheating.

"Driver you Speed UTV all day long with the comfort of a front windshield....."

View attachment 1413818

View attachment 1413820

I think I’m more amazed that there’s people who believe a rear mounted radiator with a windshield makes any sense lol.

 

[River Dirt 2]

I have a windshield and rear mounted radiator and zero overheating issues.

 

[rivermobster]

I have a windshield and rear mounted radiator and zero overheating issues. View attachment 1413858

Who makes that SxS?

 

[rivrrts429]

I have a windshield and rear mounted radiator and zero overheating issues. View attachment 1413858

That’s a super nice car. If the Speed car had the same length I think it would cure the dead air bubble at the rear of the car.

 

[River Dirt 2]

That’s a super nice car. If the Speed car had the same length I think it would cure the dead air bubble at the rear of the car.

Thank you.
I think it’s a lot about air management. I started to work on my sons Speed car air management but he had so many trips planed I never got a chance to test.
it’s apart now getting all new Hollander pivot's and off season 4 corner prep. Hopefully we can experiment a bit before next season gets into full swing. We just left the windshield off until we figure it out.

 

[DWC]

Good news. They got the wipers dialed in. You’ll be able to put it on and try it out in a couple months.

 

[Fishd00d]

Its amazing the lengths that some people goto to defend shit thats clearly not right, and the excuses they come up with are just amazing as well!

Telling people sorry you can't run your windshield when its 70 outside is seriously even an answer? lol

 

[Romans9]

I have a windshield and rear mounted radiator and zero overheating issues. View attachment 1413858

Love that car!

 

[NIKAL]

Its amazing the lengths that some people goto to defend shit thats clearly not right, and the excuses they come up with are just amazing as well!

Telling people sorry you can't run your windshield when its 70 outside is seriously even an answer? lol

It’s not defending, it’s the facts. You can either ignore the facts and be a whinny bitch when it does not work the way you want. Or you can accept the facts and either use the windshield in the specs they claim it will work, or not use it at all. Imo Speed should have never offered a windshield, and just let the aftermarket offer it and cause the headaches. But that’s not the Robby & Todd way! They don’t want the aftermarket to sell something they can offer.

If I don’t buy my Speed when it comes in, and if I go buy the new Pro R, I have to accept the suspension geometry & design is not that of the Speed , and the Pro gets hotter in the drivers area due to the front radiator (be super cool if those new ducts work as they say they will and eliminates all that heat) Everything is a trade off. You can’t run a windshield in the Yamaha YXZ as it too has the rear radiator. You can’t run a windshield in the Mav R without having to add the Can Am ducted roof and ducting between the seat to the oil & trans coolers. Ask Mario Jr about the heat in the XX. It sucks! Lots of XX guys move the radiators behind them, but then lose the windshield option.

 

[Bigbore500r]

I guess Speed could fix the problem by recalling all the windshields back. Give a refund and to those who don’t return the windshield get told that if their car has any overheating issues, it’s not covered under warranty.

Would that suffice?

When they first started building the car people begged for a windshield. Robby said I think we can do that. They built one and during testing found out that over 70ish degrees the water temp got to hot. So they said, if you get a windshield, you can’t run it in warmer weather. It’s no secret that the car is not designed to run a windshield in warmer weather.

Several like me, realized this was not going to work and asked for a refund or credit for the windshield that we ordered, and Speed obliged.

I know of two people who had very nice prerun buggy’s and both struggled with water & oil temps when running windshields.

So…if that’s the case, and they know it’s a problem - why not take the option off the website, or at least add a disclaimer?

Plenty of huge power full body cars with windshields and rear radiators running around without an issue. It can be fixed, they’re just choosing not to do it. At least stop people from ordering…..it’s the least you can do, literally

 

[Bigbore500r]

Good news. They got the wipers dialed in. You’ll be able to put it on and try it out in a couple months.

View attachment 1413892

Again - selling the windshield that you can’t run, and more accessories for said windshield

 

[Bigbore500r]

I think I’m more amazed that there’s people who believe a rear mounted radiator with a windshield makes any sense lol.

Lots of cars do it without an issue. Mine included. People who use these for recreational use want the dirt out of their face, and the cold air off their face in cold weather. Speed sold something they didn’t test and instead of making a change to fix the cooling issue, theyre instead focusing on adding windshield washers….to the windshield….that you can’t run.

 

[BHC Vic]

It’s not defending, it’s the facts. You can either ignore the facts and be a whinny bitch when it does not work the way you want. Or you can accept the facts and either use the windshield in the specs they claim it will work, or not use it at all. Imo Speed should have never offered a windshield, and just let the aftermarket offer it and cause the headaches. But that’s not the Robby & Todd way! They don’t want the aftermarket to sell something they can offer.

If I don’t buy my Speed when it comes in, and if I go buy the new Pro R, I have to accept the suspension geometry & design is not that of the Speed , and the Pro gets hotter in the drivers area due to the front radiator (be super cool if those new ducts work as they say they will and eliminates all that heat) Everything is a trade off. You can’t run a windshield in the Yamaha YXZ as it too has the rear radiator. You can’t run a windshield in the Mav R without having to add the Can Am ducted roof and ducting between the seat to the oil & trans coolers. Ask Mario Jr about the heat in the XX. It sucks! Lots of XX guys move the radiators behind them, but then lose the windshield option.

That’s not the Robby and Todd way. They’d rather half ass it and THEN let the customer and aftermarket guys figure it out that’s funny I don’t care who you are

 

[NIKAL]

So…if that’s the case, and they know it’s a problem - why not take the option off the website, or at least add a disclaimer?

Plenty of huge power full body cars with windshields and rear radiators running around without an issue. It can be fixed, they’re just choosing not to do it. At least stop people from ordering…..it’s the least you can do, literally

I agree, but you would have to ask Speed why they don’t remove offering a windshield? I guess they don’t see it as big as an issue as the non speed buyers seem too, or maybe they like the headaches & problems they get from customers? Who knows, you will have to ask them?

Lots of buggy’s can run windshields and lots can’t. Like I said in another post I know two that struggle with windshields. One really sucks to ride in the back of because of how close it is and it’s scary how loud the fans are when on full speed. In Speeds case I think they would need to raise the radiator up allot, make the radiator bigger and remove the oil cooler from the radiator and make it is own cooler. Thats allot of tooling, and changes and who knows maybe they do that on a Gen 2, if a Gen 2 ever happens? I’m not so confident we see a Gen 2.

If a windshield is mandatory in an UTV and a deal breaker for some. Then definitely don’t buy a Speed UTV. Why cause yourself the headaches when it does not work for you. To many other good options out their that you can run a windshield with little to no issues or modifications. Like I’ve said before I think there are bigger factors with Speed vs not being able to run a windshield.

 

[NIKAL]

That’s not the Robby and Todd way. They’d rather half ass it and THEN let the customer and aftermarket guys figure it out that’s funny I don’t care who you are

Actually half ass and let the aftermarket figure it out has been the Polaris motto for a very long time. Polaris is smart to support the aftermarket industry, as it helps sell more cars. But on the flip side Polaris & Can Am have used the aftermarket as a crutch to also fix allot of their flaws. Years ago I asked a Polaris engineer why they did not fix something, and the comment was that the aftermarket will, and they need to leave something for them. I was like WTF??

I wish Speed was more supportive and worked with the aftermarket to help fix and build a better product.

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

I think I’m more amazed that there’s people who believe a rear mounted radiator with a windshield makes any sense lol.

You mean like Robbie and the other designers of Speed cars?

 

[sandshark1]

Actually half ass and let the aftermarket figure it out has been the Polaris motto for a very long time. Polaris is smart to support the aftermarket industry, as it helps sell more cars. But on the flip side Polaris & Can Am have used the aftermarket as a crutch to also fix allot of their flaws. Years ago I asked a Polaris engineer why they did not fix something, and the comment was that the aftermarket will, and they need to leave something for them. I was like WTF??

I wish Speed was more supportive and worked with the aftermarket to help fix and build a better product.

Aftermarket has fixes for Yamaha, Honda, Kawi, KTM, Polaris, Can Am, and just about every OEM company whether a SXS, motorcycle, watercraft, or ATV. The OEMs always embrace the aftermarket as they know it helps sell their product. Some of the aftermarket stuff is just widgets and some actually help fix issues.

Speed seems to want to rake in all the money for any potential fixes. Other than a few things Hollander is doing I do not see many other companies jumping in. The pivot upgrade kit from Hollander is really nice.

Speed not having a dealer network and getting the belt issue sorted our are the biggest hurdle they will have to overcome.

 

[NIKAL]

Aftermarket has fixes for Yamaha, Honda, Kawi, KTM, Polaris, Can Am, and just about every OEM company whether a SXS, motorcycle, watercraft, or ATV. The OEMs always embrace the aftermarket as they know it helps sell their product. Some of the aftermarket stuff is just widgets and some actually help fix issues.

Speed seems to want to rake in all the money for any potential fixes. Other than a few things Hollander is doing I do not see many other companies jumping in. The pivot upgrade kit from Hollander is really nice.

Speed not having a dealer network and getting the belt issue sorted our are the biggest hurdle they will have to overcome.

1000%

 

[RiverDave]

The radiator in the stock position is not causing any issues. It’s not causing any overheating or why you can’t run a windshield. There is no reason for a recall. The Hollander 1 1/2 in lift kit is to just optimize the radiator & fan location within the shrouding. It does not cure or fix the ability to run a windshield. It’s just a fact that a rear mounted radiator UTV is not going to be able to run a windshield all the time. But the plus is you don’t have the year around radiator heat blasting under the dash and cooking the riders, like you do with the front radiator UTV’s. Everything’s a trade off.

The radiator lift kit is just like any brand of UTV, the aftermarket finds a widget or something they think can make the car better. Like a X3 gusset kit or RZR upgraded ball joint.

So it doesn’t cure the problem because I was betting that it would

 

[RiverDave]

To play devils advocate, Speed has told its customers that they could not run the windshield in anything over like 70 degrees. It was not a surprise when people saw heading issues with the windshield.

Anything over 50 degrees.. and I’m not sure it would even work then because it’s not a temp problem it’s a negative pressure from the windshield problem

 

[dirtslinger2]

Anything over 50 degrees.. and I’m not sure it would even work then because it’s not a temp problem it’s a negative pressure from the windshield problem

i used mine up to about 75 last spring

 

[rivermobster]

i used mine up to about 75 last spring

You realize that's pretty much freezing in lake Havasu City, right?

 

[37 boat]

i used mine up to about 75 last spring

I only have about 350 miles on mine so far but all those miles were in 75-80 degree temps last spring. I have not really pushed the car hard yet but I ran in Sacramento wash from Yucca to the 95/40 turn off at 50-60 mph the whole way watching belt temps and engine temps. It definitely runs hotter than my CanAm but I have not lost a belt yet. I'm hoping to change out the fans for Spal units and fabricate or buy a rear window to bring the temps down a little.

 

[rivermobster]

Have any of you guys (that own one) tried reversing the fan rotation?

Just pull the pins out of one side of the fan connector, and swap em

Sure as hell won't hurt anything to try!

 

[RiverDave]

Have any of you guys (that own one) tried reversing the fan rotation?

Just pull the pins out of one side of the fan connector, and swap em

Sure as hell won't hurt anything to try!

Then it would be hot AF in the cab..

 

[Bigbore500r]

Anything over 50 degrees.. and I’m not sure it would even work then because it’s not a temp problem it’s a negative pressure from the windshield problem

Dave - i've asked about this since you mentioned it, day one.
Curious on your opinion - As a car owner, who bought the car fully optioned from Speed including their windshield - why is this something you feel you need to figure out, VS Speed figuring it out and rectifying the issue?

 

[rivermobster]

Then it would be hot AF in the cab..

So there is no partition between the passenger compartment, and the engine compartment?

 

[RiverDave]

So there is no partition between the passenger compartment, and the engine compartment?

There is between the engine but the radiator is up high and vents to the passenger compartment..

 

[RiverDave]

Dave - i've asked about this since you mentioned it, day one.
Curious on your opinion - As a car owner, who bought the car fully optioned from Speed including their windshield - why is this something you feel you need to figure out, VS Speed figuring it out and rectifying the issue?

I bought it, I knew about the issue and purchased it anyways. So I think the answer is self accountability?

RD

 

[rivermobster]

There is between the engine but the radiator is up high and vents to the passenger compartment..

Copy that.

Might be worth a try just to see what happens. If it works, then could re-enginer from there.

 

[RiverDave]

Copy that.

Might be worth a try just to see what happens. If it works, then could re-enginer from there.

The problem is there is a negative pressure zone in the cab and it is overcoming the fans.. or at a minimum stalling the air the fans are trying to move.

If we alleviate the negative pressure and even get it to neutral the problem will be solved.

Most people are trying things like raising the radiator assembly up to improve the flow of the fans. Right now there is a gap between the fans and the shroud which would allow some of the air to go round and round instead of through..

The second thing they are trying is putting higher cfm fans on the car that are more efficient..

I have a couple of solutions that I think would work.. but ultimately I would like to mess with the roofline a bit and see if I can find a spot where some small scoops just balance the pressure in the car at speed..

RD

 

[rivermobster]

The problem is there is a negative pressure zone in the cab and it is overcoming the fans.. or at a minimum stalling the air the fans are trying to move.

If we alleviate the negative pressure and even get it to neutral the problem will be solved.

Most people are trying things like raising the radiator assembly up to improve the flow of the fans. Right now there is a gap between the fans and the shroud which would allow some of the air to go round and round instead of through..

The second thing they are trying is putting higher cfm fans on the car that are more efficient..

I have a couple of solutions that I think would work.. but ultimately I would like to mess with the roofline a bit and see if I can find a spot where some small scoops just balance the pressure in the car at speed..

RD

I noticed that "gap" right away. Hard to tell if it's part of the problem, or not.

It definitely seems odd.

 

[Bigbore500r]

I bought it, I knew about the issue and purchased it anyways. So I think the answer is self accountability?

RD

So you knew about it years back when you put deposits on cars and paid for accessories, before any were delivered?
How?

 

[dirtslinger2]

So you knew about it years back when you put deposits on cars and paid for accessories, before any were delivered?
How?

Yes, I knew about it, before I took delivery, and I still ordered the windshield. Speed told us in videos....

 

[DaveH]

The problem is there is a negative pressure zone in the cab and it is overcoming the fans.. or at a minimum stalling the air the fans are trying to move.

If we alleviate the negative pressure and even get it to neutral the problem will be solved.

Most people are trying things like raising the radiator assembly up to improve the flow of the fans. Right now there is a gap between the fans and the shroud which would allow some of the air to go round and round instead of through..

The second thing they are trying is putting higher cfm fans on the car that are more efficient..

I have a couple of solutions that I think would work.. but ultimately I would like to mess with the roofline a bit and see if I can find a spot where some small scoops just balance the pressure in the car at speed..

RD

has anyone simply tried a larger radiator is there no room for it?

 

[rivrrts429]

Lots of cars do it without an issue. Mine included. People who use these for recreational use want the dirt out of their face, and the cold air off their face in cold weather. Speed sold something they didn’t test and instead of making a change to fix the cooling issue, theyre instead focusing on adding windshield washers….to the windshield….that you can’t run.

I can’t run a windshield on my RZR with any kind of windshield and it’s rear radiator. I tried a quarter windshield and no-go.

Maybe the length of the car helps?

 

[NIKAL]

So you knew about it years back when you put deposits on cars and paid for accessories, before any were delivered?
How?

Just as @dirtslinger2 said, during early testing they found out at what temp a windshield could be run at. They even made mock up 1/2 & full windshields to test during the summer & winter around Charlotte NC. This was well before any customer cars were delivered, and during prototype & pre production cars were being tested.

You seem to have quite a bit of interest or frustration with Speed. You should go back and watch some of the weekly videos. It will answer allot of your questions as all this was talked about and shown in those videos and in Robbys random IG live videos when out testing.

 

[RiverDave]

So you knew about it years back when you put deposits on cars and paid for accessories, before any were delivered?
How?

In their live videos they had said that the windshield would cause the car to overheat in anything above 50 degrees

 

[RiverDave]

So it’s a little bit of money for sure but this is a fix for the overheating issues..

It is a larger roof scoop that goes out to the front of the window.. if you have the light at they put on a scoop that is three inches longer.

They also add a pretty heavy duty oil cooler on the front with fans.

This has solved the overheating issues with the windshield even in havasu summer temps.

Morgan motorsports in Lake Havasu city tell em RiverDave sent ya!

My car will be going in for this as well as springs before we leave for our Baja trip.

RD

 

[NIKAL]

I can’t run a windshield on my RZR with any kind of windshield and it’s rear radiator. I tried a quarter windshield and no-go.

Maybe the length of the car helps?

View attachment 1414287

Very nice car! Have you had any inner rear cv’s over heating or boots melting? I know several have like the Matlocks. I think the inners on the Mav R in race conditions have had more inner cv temp issues vs the Pro R. I’m seeing allot of teams running air duct hose to the inner rear cv’s to help cool them.

I was told on the Pro R they think allot of the heat is coming from the lack of air flow, but also the independent rear dif as it runs pretty hot, so I’m told?

Here is Matlocks MacGyver red ducting during the Norra race as their new Upfit built prerunners had a few cv failures, plus it was just hot out.

 

[NIKAL]

View attachment 1414305 View attachment 1414306 View attachment 1414307 View attachment 1414308 View attachment 1414309 View attachment 1414310 So it’s a little bit of money for sure but this is a fix for the overheating issues..

It is a larger roof scoop that goes out to the front of the window.. if you have the light at they put on a scoop that is three inches longer.

They also add a pretty heavy duty oil cooler on the front with fans.

This has solved the overheating issues with the windshield even in havasu summer temps.

Morgan motorsports in Lake Havasu city tell em RiverDave sent ya!

My car will be going in for this as well as springs before we leave for our Baja trip.

RD

I bet you find out pushing that roof scoop back 20-30 inches or more increases the airflow into the roof duct vs right up above the windshield.

The thought is the air coming up the windshield will go right in the roof duct? But it’s actually the opposite. There is a low pressure point at the bottom of the windshield that causes a bit of air to tumble, and does not let the air flow up the windshield & in the roof duct.

 

[RiverDave]

This is car 151 with the mods on it.. pretty sure this guy owns the speed forum.

 

[RiverDave]

Speeds don’t flip over doing this like this.. lol

Pass to always wear a seatbelt.. they are both lucky to be alive

506K views · 38K reactions | Always remember to wear your seatbelt #buckleupbuttercup | Canam Life | canam_life · Original audio

Always remember to wear your seatbelt #buckleupbuttercup. canam_life · Original audio

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RD

 

[NIKAL]

This is car 151 with the mods on it.. pretty sure this guy owns the speed forum.

View attachment 1414338 View attachment 1414339 View attachment 1414340 View attachment 1414341 View attachment 1414342 View attachment 1414343 View attachment 1414344

Nope not the owner of the Speed forum.

 

[stonehenge]

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34 not a bad price, some options, and 37 miles.

 

[rivermobster]

The radiator looks to be the size of a transmission cooler to me?

And it's also doing double duty? What else is it trying to cool off?

 

[NIKAL]

The radiator looks to be the size of a transmission cooler to me?

And it's also doing double duty? What else is it trying to cool off?

View attachment 1414378 View attachment 1414379 View attachment 1414380

Oil cooler, not radiator. This is a dedicated oil cooler and eliminates using the oil cooler that is intergraded in the radiator, like an auto transmission would. Also the added lines & cooler should add 2 plus more qrts of oil. One of the issues is how fast the Speed circulates its oil. It’s said it circulates to fast and the stock oil cooler does not have the time to bring the oil temps down after longer hard runs.