Speed UTV take 3

[Bowtiepower00]

I have a buddy with a race prepped X3. What I would consider to be a lower budget effort, with some small sponsors. He runs a few races here and there for fun and the love of racing. “Affordable” is a highly subjective term, but IMO there is no remotely affordable way to race anything in off-road racing. It would take over 100k to duplicate his car, if you were paying a shop. Then, figure 5k a race on the low end assuming you can find enough competent friends to help Crew and Pit. Get punted by a trophy truck, burn another 20k and the rest of your season getting back on the road. This is for a garage type team. Sure, you could find a built car for 50-ish, but I still figure 5k/ race plus whatever blows up or breaks, plus consumables. Double or triple this for a car capable of running up front consistently.

Another buddy of mine ran a decent budget 10 car before SXS took over. He was spending 6 figures a year easily to run a competitive car, not including the car. Or the chase trucks. Or the prerunner. Or professional race prep. He had a guy on the payroll that handled all of the prep and logistics for him. And if you were on the crew he covered lodging and meals while you were with the team. This was not, by most standards, a high budget team. I would guess it would have been average for those days. I bring up the 10 car because it’s similar to the effort required to campaign a SxS today.

Some guys can do the fab and prep themselves, to keep costs down. But that’s a huge time commitment on top of the time it takes to attend the races.

This doesn’t include any racing in Baja. Throw your budget out the window to run down there.

 

[yz450mm]

That doesn’t answer my question. He’s running on a small budget and races a SXS with his life long buddy.

I’m aware it’s expensive and not cheap. I’ve had friends race KOH and Trophy truck that were blue collar guys. SXS seems it would be cheaper than a true race car..

Gotcha, you said race off-road so I didn't know if you specifically meant UTV or something else.

I think the overall cost would depend on whether you are racing to finish, or racing to win. Obviously everybody would love to win, but unless your program is on point and you get lucky, it's not a reality for most.

Car prep has a lot to do with your finish rate, and it's not cheap to do it right. Are you replacing things before they break, or waiting till you blow that CV and then replacing it in the pits?

I would say our average cost to get everybody and everything to the race and pay the entry fee is around 8K minimum. There have been times where we made it half a lap and then something stupid broke on the car and we were out.

Safety gear can easily Run 4k per person, as long as you don't cheap out and get a single layer suit. If you plan on having help in the pits, plan on providing food and drinks for all your volunteer help.

If you were going to go buy a car and then prep it to race to win, and then buy all the safety gear and logistical support stuff, I'd plan on no less than 100k.

 

[Fabhouse]

I have raced with garage teams and top tier teams. I have not run on a UTV team, but the current costs associated are no different that a mid level truck. 100k to start, 15 to 25 per race, If you finish clean and don't break the car. Then a 15k prep, wash, rinse, repeat. This is assuming you own the truck, trailers, RV's, and pit equipment. Your volunteer crew is not free-hotels, gas, beer, lunch, dinner, etc. All of this adds up really fast. I would never want to keep someone from off road racing, its an amazing community with wonderful people and just a great time with amazing memories-but it is not a cheap sport. No racing is.
My time on the high dollar teams was fun, but much more stressful. 2mil/year budget means you are paid to win, not place.

 

[rivermobster]

That doesn’t answer my question. He’s running on a small budget and races a SXS with his life long buddy.

I’m aware it’s expensive and not cheap. I’ve had friends race KOH and Trophy truck that were blue collar guys. SXS seems it would be cheaper than a true race car..

My BIL has close to 100k in his CanAm.

He raced for awhile in the DP4 Series with his friends and family helping pit for him.

His co-driver, our friend Todd, has Baja 1000 experience for a number of years.

The cost all in for each race (fuel, entry fees, food, etc) ended up being more than he could afford, and he's a well into the six figures kinna guy.

He raced a year and called it quits. He was just starting to get competitive!

Was a shit ton of work And a whole lotta fun!

Home - DP4 Racing

dp4racing.com

P. S. That 100k doesn't include his diesel pusher motor home, enclosed trailer, generators, lighting, tools...

Yes, the list is endless.

 

[rivermobster]

You guys can bench race all you want but nobody on this website can say they have one of these

View attachment 1292378 View attachment 1292379

YOU are the mother fucking MAN!!!

Congrats Richard. You must be on cloud fucking 10.

 

[DWC]

How much money does really it take to enter a race and be competitive? I’d love to give desert racing a shot…

PS. Thanks for asking the question. I was curious. After the responses, I’m not anymore. Wow.

 

[rivermobster]

PS. Thanks for asking the question. I was curious. After the responses, I’m not anymore. Wow.

And let's not even talk about the time commitment shall we?

You have to be Beyond dedicated to be truly competitive today.

 

[rivrrts429]

Does my 1st place in the 2017 NORRA 1000 count?

Aloha

You know the work and dedication involved, respect

 

[rivrrts429]

How much money does really it take to enter a race and be competitive? I’d love to give desert racing a shot…

It’s not cheap but it’s worth it. You should go for it. You won’t be disappointed. Having a good co-driver and a good team is critical to having a good finish but, anyone worth their weight doesn’t work for “free” lol

Aside from the cost of the car you almost need a chase truck(s) loaded with enough parts to build a complete car. Trailing arms, axles, tires, a-arms, radiators, hotels/VRBO for a team of 10, fuel for chase truck(s) and racecar and then you need to feed everyone. Sponsors are the critical aspect if you can get them. Luckily we have some great supporters so it softens the edge of the cost. Nevertheless it’s likely the most cost effective way to get into racing. Do it Hammer. You won’t be sad.

If I was married there would be some arguments about where I spend my extra cash lol

I’ll share more later when we get home. Just crossed the border back into the states a little bit ago. Need a shower and a beer lol

 

[Hammer]

Gotcha, you said race off-road so I didn't know if you specifically meant UTV or something else.

I think the overall cost would depend on whether you are racing to finish, or racing to win. Obviously everybody would love to win, but unless your program is on point and you get lucky, it's not a reality for most.

Car prep has a lot to do with your finish rate, and it's not cheap to do it right. Are you replacing things before they break, or waiting till you blow that CV and then replacing it in the pits?

I would say our average cost to get everybody and everything to the race and pay the entry fee is around 8K minimum. There have been times where we made it half a lap and then something stupid broke on the car and we were out.

Safety gear can easily Run 4k per person, as long as you don't cheap out and get a single layer suit. If you plan on having help in the pits, plan on providing food and drinks for all your volunteer help.

If you were going to go buy a car and then prep it to race to win, and then buy all the safety gear and logistical support stuff, I'd plan on no less than 100k.

Great insight ! I appreciate it. I volunteered in the pits for my buddies at KOH and a Desert race in Johnson Valley probably 15 years ago. We were all contractors and they made it happen with a lot of help back then.

Figured it would be feasible to do with a SXS over a ULTRA4 car or the VW powered rail(I have no clue what class, but it was a single seat small buggy) in comparison.

I guess I should buy a race ready SPEED and call RG up tell him I need 100% pit support at the next race.

 

[Wheeler]

I guess I should buy a race ready SPEED and call RG up tell him I need 100% pit support at the next race.

I could totally see you in this car you could name it Hammer time! The spectators would love you!

 

[rivrrts429]

I could totally see you in this car you could name it Hammer time! The spectators would love you!

View attachment 1292498

Class 11. That class has exploded and gets a ton of respect. Those guys are hard core off-road enthusiasts and deserve all the credit. They’re bad ass competitors.

 

[rivrrts429]

You mind starting a thread on what you’ve done to your Turbo S? Or point me in the direction of the thread if it already exists?

I’ll update with details in a day or two.

Not a bad finish for a Turbo S. It’s old technology for racing today compared to the Pro R’s, Canned Hams and Speed cars.

I think we’re gonna build a Pro R for the NORRA 1000. Our car today has reached its maximum potential. Endless hours in suspension, clutch and wheel size that we’ve reached a dead end to compete for wins.

Todays cars are insanely fast in the whoops and technical stuff. Robby told us he was doing 70-75mph in the San Felipe whoops. If you know those whoops they’re brutal.

Ordinarily I would’ve been skeptical of what he said but we were on his ass and then the whoops happened and he stretched his legs and was gone. Car looked crazy good in terrible terrain.

 

[702sandman]

How much money does really it take to enter a race and be competitive? I’d love to give desert racing a shot…

I have a 2021 turbo S that we built and is very competitive for a turbo S has a couple wins in legacy and snore. If your looking to get into racing this would be perfect for the local stuff like DP4 , snore, legacy and bitd. I’m getting ready to list it for 31K with lots of spares. I’m also prepping my fully built Pro XP to sell to make room for my new Pro R build but this one is going to go for 60+K. Dm me if you want more info.

 

[rivrrts429]

I have a 2021 turbo S that we built and is very competitive for a turbo S has a couple wins in legacy and snore. If your looking to get into racing this would be perfect for the local stuff like DP4 , snore, legacy and bitd. I’m getting ready to list it for 31K with lots of spares. I’m also prepping my fully built Pro XP to sell to make room for my new Pro R build but this one is going to go for 60+K. Dm me if you want more info.

View attachment 1292558 View attachment 1292559

Those are super nice cars. The Pro R’s are beasts. A few clutch issues but damn they’re crazy fast & capable cars right off the showroom.

 

[Eliminator21vdrive]

And just like that all the naysayers, keyboard warriors and just plain shit talkers are hiding like roaches when you turn the light on!!

Congrats to the Speed team and all the other competitors!

 

[Eliminator21vdrive]

Imagine the boundless heights your dreams could reach if you banished the fear of failure. The only true obstacle we face on our journey through life is the limitations we impose upon ourselves. The recent Norra 500 event, held this weekend, served as a remarkable testament to our indomitable spirit – revealing that we need not cower before our aspirations. With unwavering vision and an insatiable desire to succeed, there is no dream too grand, no goal too lofty to attain.
To all our customers, thank you Todd

 

[rivrrts429]

And just like that all the neigh sayers ,keyboard warriors and just plain shit talkers are hiding like roaches when you turn the light on!!

Congrats to the Speed team and all the other competitors!

They are crazy fast cars and bad ass in person. The Speed cars want to fly and are happy to go hard. Regardless of the level of Max & Robby’s support team it’s still difficult to argue their capability after their finishes at NORRA. The field had plenty of good funded teams and Max still walked away with the $10k cash prize.

Beau Briggs in the CanAm was leading after day one but when the terrain got fast and insanely rough on day two Beau DNF’d because the front end gave up the ghost.

Obviously there is some level of luck involved at times in off-road racing to get that podium finish but the SPEED cars are the real deal. They’re getting the kinks worked out and they’ll be contenders for a long time I think.

I have no dog in the fight. I’m not a Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge person. Show me real world performance. The SPEED car is a gamer.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Maybe the offroad promoters should do a case study on jet ski racing.
Unfortunately UTVs are on the exact same path.

Last night's topic of conversation with a bunch of my old-school racing friends was the topic of saturation. The oldest guy at the table, who has been around pro motorsports his whole life, was the only person who agreed with me that the sport has too many series and promoters that won't work together. Most of these promoters have a single "Halo" event that makes them money; the rest of the events bleed them dry, yet they still believe they need a series. @702sandman has the right idea. Cherry-pick the right events and create your own series. Go to the events that make sense. If the promoters took this approach, they might be more profitable and produce a better product for their customers.

Dave Cole sold off his whole series and is focused on just KOH. I hope he sticks with that approach. I wish others would follow.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

It’s not cheap but it’s worth it.

If I was married there would be some arguments about where I spend my extra cash lol



View attachment 1292485 View attachment 1292486

The reason I don't race anymore is because of the guilt hangover. It got so bad that when I started feeling guilty mid-race, I stopped. My wife and kids never complained about how much money and time I spent racing, but still, I was my own worst critic. I would absolutely love to be part of a team, but trading PTO to spend time in the desert with a bunch of sweaty dudes versus spending time with my wife is a hard trade.

 

[Singleton]

I could totally see you in this car you could name it Hammer time! The spectators would love you!

View attachment 1292498

Class 11 is fun. Help with pits at the KOH race with Josh Felix.

 

[rivrrts429]

The reason I don't race anymore is because of the guilt hangover. It got so bad that when I started feeling guilty mid-race, I stopped. My wife and kids never complained about how much money and time I spent racing, but still, I was my own worst critic. I would absolutely love to be part of a team, but trading PTO to spend time in the desert with a bunch of sweaty dudes versus spending time with my wife is a hard trade.

You’re spot-on and 100% correct. Just the time wrenching on shit pre-race consumes critical time with your significant others. Sucks, at times, being conscious of your selfishness.

It’s a trade off though. Without me racing something with an engine I’d be a miserable individual and my kids and family would hate me

Long live horsepower and exhaust fumes

 

[NIKAL]

The reason I don't race anymore is because of the guilt hangover. It got so bad that when I started feeling guilty mid-race, I stopped. My wife and kids never complained about how much money and time I spent racing, but still, I was my own worst critic. I would absolutely love to be part of a team, but trading PTO to spend time in the desert with a bunch of sweaty dudes versus spending time with my wife is a hard trade.

Biggest reason why I stopped too. Now we have the time & money for a family vacations & cruises. Or now we have the time for family camping, desert or river trips. Now we have more money to build nice stuff for our home. Or not even blink or concern when my daughter wants to do the school Washington DC trip and it’s $3500.

Not the case when your whole world and time is wrapped up on some desert race and your booking your 2024 calendar and telling your family when your busy. Or when your taking funds to buy the next new race car part or equipment.

I’m glad those days are over!

 

[NIKAL]

Ya in their class.......however all the Pro R UTVs are N/A so they are in a different class. Thats why ya gotta look at overall. No one gives a shit about class, it’s all about overall UTV.

Fish now that Speed got the overall, do you still think the overall was more impressive & important?

Or was the fact that 4 other stock production Speed cars raced, finished and even placed in their class?

For me as a buyer and general racing enthusiast, I am more impressed with the production stock Speed cars finishing and finishing well.

I like the comment @rivrrts429 said about being skeptical of Robbys mph claim, and then when entering the SF whoops the Speed Bandit car walked away from their built up Turbo S. IMO that’s saying something big! You can’t fix or substitute wheel base. So for a 95 inch car to walk away in the rough SF whoops on a 117 WB car is impressive.

 

[Fishd00d]

Fish now that Speed got the overall, do you still think the overall was more impressive & important?

Or was the fact that 4 other stock production Speed cars raced, finished and even placed in their class?

For me as a buyer and general racing enthusiast, I am more impressed with the production stock Speed cars finishing and finishing well.

I like the comment @rivrrts429 said about being skeptical of Robbys mph claim, and then when entering the SF whoops the Speed Bandit car walked away from their built up Turbo S. IMO that’s saying something big! You can’t fix or substitute wheel base. So for a 95 inch car to walk away in the rough SF whoops on a 117 WB car is impressive.

For sure the overall is the most impressive part of it. But thats my view as I am a racer and I goto a race to win, I don't goto participate. I've always raced something that was a bit under powered or under suspension from others in the class so we always had to push extra hard. I think Robbys cars are badass in the suspension department and ive said that since day 1. I am not at all surprised he walked away from a built turbo S, I had a $80K Turbo S before my Pro R and my stock Pro R would have worked my Turbo S so that makes total sense.

I like the Speed cars for the fact you can buy it ready to race (NORRA) from the factory and just go run it. Thats a huge plus if you dont want to buy a car and have to build it after. Its really cool the other 5 finished and it sounds like only Max car had belt issues so thats another big plus.

 

[baja-chris]

I'm impressed with how the Speed cars run in the rough. My Pro R is pretty legit in the whoops but the Speed cars look like they are at a whole other level.
These Speed cars are real race cars right out of the box.

 

[Albacore]

I'm impressed with how the Speed cars run in the rough. My Pro R is pretty legit in the whoops but the Speed cars look like they are at a whole other level.
These Speed cars are real race cars right out of the box.

I would agree from all the footage I’ve seen in the last couple days. Wait till there’s a shit load of Diablo’s out there, Racing and just having fun. Let’s see what happens. Give them a year or two years and they’ll be just fine. Not sure the economy will be fine, but speed is pretty dedicated and Max is just in his beginning stages here.

 

[rivermobster]

Let's face it...

Upgrading suspension is the BEST thing you can do to make pretty much Anything faster.

No doubt, Robbie Gordon is gonna be a step ahead in this department with all the experience he has!

In a few years, when All of the bugs are worked out, it's gonna be a bad azz production car.

But rest assured...

The other manufacturers are Not gonna sit on their hands and watch.

Which is Excellent news for the consumer.

 

[MonkeyButt70]

We finished 3rd (preliminary before penalties are assessed) behind Max and Robby. View attachment 1292061

Robby came and found us to congratulate us. We’re in a Turbo S, old technology.

Such a great event!

Next month my driver and I race the Baja 1000 for Honda. Gonna be memories.

Which Honda team are you going to be racing for?

 

[rivrrts429]

Which Honda team are you going to be racing for?

Janesky

 

[DWC]

Let's face it...

Upgrading suspension is the BEST thing you can do to make pretty much Anything faster.

No doubt, Robbie Gordon is gonna be a step ahead in this department with all the experience he has!

In a few years, when All of the bugs are worked out, it's gonna be a bad azz production car.

But rest assured...

The other manufacturers are Not gonna sit on their hands and watch.

Which is Excellent news for the consumer.

The battle between Speed suspension and Maverick R power train should be fun to watch. Great for the industry. The other classes are going to be playing catch up.

 

[MonkeyButt70]

Janesky

Congrats, that will be a great race. My boys will be there with the Honda Factory team doing race support.

 

[rivrrts429]

Congrats, that will be a great race. My boys will be there with the Honda Factory team doing race support.

Appreciate the kind words. That’s awesome your boys are doing support! Those guys are the real heroes to keep the cars moving. It’s not easy work.

 

[riverroyal]

Coyne has #61 for sale. Prob 1st dealer unit.
65k

 

[rivrrts429]

BajaCactusMx Media🌵 on Instagram: "@robbygordon at @norraracing_official . . . . . #bestinthedesert #offroad #bajaoffroad #bajaoffroadensenada #race #robbygordon #speed #speedcars #baja #norra #norraracing #racing"

91 likes, 0 comments - bajacactusmx.media on October 23, 2023: "@robbygordon at @norraracing_official . . . . . #bestinthedesert #offroad #bajaoffroad #bajaoffroadensenada #race #robbygordon #speed #speedcars #baja #norra #norraracing #racing".

www.instagram.com

Max Gordon on Instagram: "First @speedutv win and we did it in @norraracing_official ✌️🇲🇽 #norra500 #norra1000 #baja #utv #speedutv #robbygordon #maxgordon"

3,758 likes, 72 comments - madmaxgordon on October 23, 2023: "First @speedutv win and we did it in @norraracing_official ✌️🇲🇽 #norra500 #norra1000 #baja #utv #speedutv #robbygordon #maxgordon".

www.instagram.com

 

[=River Perfection=]

BajaCactusMx Media🌵 on Instagram: "@robbygordon at @norraracing_official . . . . . #bestinthedesert #offroad #bajaoffroad #bajaoffroadensenada #race #robbygordon #speed #speedcars #baja #norra #norraracing #racing"

91 likes, 0 comments - bajacactusmx.media on October 23, 2023: "@robbygordon at @norraracing_official . . . . . #bestinthedesert #offroad #bajaoffroad #bajaoffroadensenada #race #robbygordon #speed #speedcars #baja #norra #norraracing #racing".

www.instagram.com

Max Gordon on Instagram: "First @speedutv win and we did it in @norraracing_official ✌️🇲🇽 #norra500 #norra1000 #baja #utv #speedutv #robbygordon #maxgordon"

3,758 likes, 72 comments - madmaxgordon on October 23, 2023: "First @speedutv win and we did it in @norraracing_official ✌️🇲🇽 #norra500 #norra1000 #baja #utv #speedutv #robbygordon #maxgordon".

www.instagram.com

Congrats to you and Javier dude!!! Those finish times are impressive, Javi was on the wood!! This forum is so funny, Rob's cars rip, and honestly, most these dorks in here have no idea of real desert racing and the ones that do aint wasting time in here. I CAN NOT believe the amount of time people take to argue about a S X S...... ANY OF THESE THINGS EXCEED YOUR SKILL SET PEOPLE I CAN GUARANTEE THAT!!! How many of you put this kind of keyboard warrior time into any other of your vehicles???? HAHAHAHAHAH LMAO!!! IDIOTS

 

[rivermobster]

BajaCactusMx Media🌵 on Instagram: "@robbygordon at @norraracing_official . . . . . #bestinthedesert #offroad #bajaoffroad #bajaoffroadensenada #race #robbygordon #speed #speedcars #baja #norra #norraracing #racing"

91 likes, 0 comments - bajacactusmx.media on October 23, 2023: "@robbygordon at @norraracing_official . . . . . #bestinthedesert #offroad #bajaoffroad #bajaoffroadensenada #race #robbygordon #speed #speedcars #baja #norra #norraracing #racing".

www.instagram.com

Max Gordon on Instagram: "First @speedutv win and we did it in @norraracing_official ✌️🇲🇽 #norra500 #norra1000 #baja #utv #speedutv #robbygordon #maxgordon"

3,758 likes, 72 comments - madmaxgordon on October 23, 2023: "First @speedutv win and we did it in @norraracing_official ✌️🇲🇽 #norra500 #norra1000 #baja #utv #speedutv #robbygordon #maxgordon".

www.instagram.com

Bad azz.

 

[rivrrts429]

Congrats to you and Javier dude!!! Those finish times are impressive, Javi was on the wood!! This forum is so funny, Rob's car rip, and honestly, most these dorks in here have no idea of real desert racing and the ones that do aint wasting time in here. I CAN NOT believe the amount of time people take to argue about a S X S...... ANY OF THESE THINGS EXCEED YOUR SKILL SET PEOPLE I CAN GUARANTEE THAT!!! How many of you put this kind of keyboard warrior time into any other of you vehicles???? HAHAHAHAHAH LMAO!!! IDIOTS

Thanks brotha!!! Ya Javi was an animal and breaking off strong cars all day. I’m mentally exhausted from talking all day calling out hazards and turns and keeping him confident while also managing the car so that we can drive across the finish line with an intact machine.

It would amaze most people how much is going on minute to minute in the car between the driver and co-driver. Plus it was 102* coming into San Felipe and Javi’s Parker Pumper helmet hose failed so I’m sharing mine with him to keep us both cool. Then our GPS units over heated and turned off so then I’m only relying on the paper route book. It was froggy at times lol

Wouldn’t change anything but damn it can test you mentally and physically for hours on end.

Appreciate the good words Geoff. Let’s get together for some beers soon. Tell the wifey I said hello.

I’ll be at NHRA all weekend as well if you’re going.

 

[=River Perfection=]

You guys are a great team!! Keep living your dreams dude! I'll shout at you soon.

 

[attitude]

In case anyone is looking

 

[02HoWaRd26]

 

[702sandman]

Congrats to you and Javier dude!!! Those finish times are impressive, Javi was on the wood!! This forum is so funny, Rob's cars rip, and honestly, most these dorks in here have no idea of real desert racing and the ones that do aint wasting time in here. I CAN NOT believe the amount of time people take to argue about a S X S...... ANY OF THESE THINGS EXCEED YOUR SKILL SET PEOPLE I CAN GUARANTEE THAT!!! How many of you put this kind of keyboard warrior time into any other of your vehicles???? HAHAHAHAHAH LMAO!!! IDIOTS

That’s a pretty blanket statement….I for sure don’t know anything about racing a SXS SMH

 

[rivrrts429]

Pretty cool

That’s a pretty blanket statement….I for sure don’t know anything about racing a SXS SMH

He said “most” which would be an accurate statement. Don’t think he was singling you out.

 

[82daytona]

What happened to the Speed thread?

 

[rivrrts429]

What happened to the Speed thread?

It won NORRA lol

 

[bentprops]

It won NORRA lol

Yep so all the haters had to find a new place to try to let there balls drop.

 

[sandshark1]

Camp RZR is coming up and carnage of all SXSs to be seen soon.

 

[Fishd00d]

Camp RZR is coming up and carnage of all SXSs to be seen soon.

I still wish Dave would have taken my bet that the Speed wouldnt break at Glamis hahaha

 

[Bigbore500r]

Camp RZR is coming up and carnage of all SXSs to be seen soon.

 

[bentprops]

Speed has great racing success and this thread drops like a rock. Apparently more haters than lovers. They will be easy to spot in the hills once the cars are ready available. They will be the ones driving the 100K canams and rzrs behind you. Personally id just swallow my pride and buy a speed for half that and the other half in another cashflowing investment.