Rusty and Ultra

[RiverDave]

Spill the beans Dave.

I don’t want @Bpracing1127 coming after me over rusty being the victim again.

 

[Bpracing1127]

I don’t want @Bpracing1127 coming after me over rusty being the victim again.

lol, got my pitchfork ready

 

[Gelcoater]

I don’t want @Bpracing1127 coming after me over rusty being the victim again.

Ban him

 

[CoolCruzin]

What make this damn boat mold so good .
I see nothing special .
I have owned a 21 .
I’ll never buy one even 1/2 the price .
Carry on !

 

[FlyByWire]

Ok I got the details guys.

 

[Gelcoater]

What make this damn boat mold so good .
I see nothing special .
I have owned a 21 .
I’ll never buy one even 1/2 the price .
Carry on !

Nothing wrong with them.
The boats have great lines even though they aren’t “modern” anymore.
I did a 27 for a guy many years ago. He somehow managed to have the molds out at Joel’s place in Hemet and asked if I would, so I did.
They would sell today given a fair price and quality people building them.
Lots of potential to the right guy(s).

 

[riverroyal]

I don’t want @Bpracing1127 coming after me over rusty being the victim again.

Post of the week winner

 

[Bigbore500r]

Nothing wrong with them.
The boats have great lines even though they aren’t “modern” anymore.
I did a 27 for a guy many years ago. He somehow managed to have the molds out at Joel’s place in Hemet and asked if I would, so I did.
They would sell today given a fair price and quality people building them.
Lots of potential to the right guy(s).

I like the looks of the 26 shadow alot.

 

[D19]

I think John west is the only person that could save ultra and we all know he is to busy to go down that road

Nothing wrong with them.
The boats have great lines even though they aren’t “modern” anymore.
I did a 27 for a guy many years ago. He somehow managed to have the molds out at Joel’s place in Hemet and asked if I would, so I did.
They would sell today given a fair price and quality people building them.
Lots of potential to the right guy(s).

I think there's a lot of potential there for someone who has the time, resources and passion to rebrand the company. I asked my wife a few months ago if I could try to purchase the assets/molds and start a boat company. She said that I have some great ideas but the answer is no. LOL

 

[adam909]

I think there's a lot of potential there for someone who has the time, resources and passion to rebrand the company. I asked my wife a few months ago if I could try to purchase the assets/molds and start a boat company. She said that I have some great ideas but the answer is no. LOL

I don't think there's a market for small v-bottom boats anymore. Toons have really taken over for new average income buyers. Name a company that puts out new vees on a consistent basis? Didn't Eliminator throw away a vee mold due to not in demand?

 

[D19]

I don't think there's a market for small v-bottom boats anymore. Toons have really taken over for new average income buyers. Name a company that puts out new vees on a consistent basis? Didn't Eliminator throw away a vee mold due to not in demand?

Shockwave, Tahiti, Hallett and Nordic to name a few.

 

[HNL2LHC]

Shockwave, Tahiti, Hallett and Nordic to name a few.

Met with Essex a year ago. Aren’t they a good manufacturer and if so they build Vees

 

[eand28]

I don't think there's a market for small v-bottom boats anymore. Toons have really taken over for new average income buyers. Name a company that puts out new vees on a consistent basis? Didn't Eliminator throw away a vee mold due to not in demand?

Iirc it was the 250 mold

 

[Smupser]

I think there's a lot of potential there for someone who has the time, resources and passion to rebrand the company. I asked my wife a few months ago if I could try to purchase the assets/molds and start a boat company. She said that I have some great ideas but the answer is no. LOL

Look at what tahiti offshore did with the ultra 21 stealth and placecraft 22 molds.

 

[Smupser]

I don't think there's a market for small v-bottom boats anymore. Toons have really taken over for new average income buyers. Name a company that puts out new vees on a consistent basis? Didn't Eliminator throw away a vee mold due to not in demand?

It’s not that there’s no market for them, it’s there’s not a lot of profit margin with the cost to build. Most small boat builders primarily build 30ft. Boats that they charge 200k+ for. Ever wonder why Eliminator wants 30k for a bare 19 ft. Daytona?

 

[D19]

It’s not that there’s no market for them, it’s there’s not a lot of profit margin with the cost to build. Most small boat builders primarily build 30ft. Boats that they charge 200k+ for. Ever wonder why Eliminator wants 30k for a bare 19 ft. Daytona?

I went to Hallett a few months ago, $140k +/- for a 210 with a 540. It's hard to wrap my head around that kind money for a 21' and I think a lot of people feel the same so they buy something bigger LOL. When I think of a brand new 6 figure boat, I think of something bigger than a 21.

I've built a few 19 jet boats. You can easily hit the $100k mark without going full tilt on the build if you had a builder make it. The market for that boat is primarily owner/builder (hobbyist). The guy producing the blank hull has to figure out how to make it worth their time if they aren't making money rigging it and marking up materials / equipment.


Our cash value is becoming worthless and the industry is dying off (less competition between builders) yet there is still demand. Both of those are unfortunately a recipe for high boat prices.

 

[Smupser]

I went to Hallett a few months ago, $140k +/- for a 210 with a 540. It's hard to wrap my head around that kind money for a 21' and I think a lot of people feel the same so they buy something bigger LOL. When I think of a brand new 6 figure boat, I think of something bigger than a 21.

I've built a few 19 jet boats. You can easily hit the $100k mark without going full tilt on the build if you had a builder make it. The market for that boat is primarily owner/builder (hobbyist). The guy producing the blank hull has to figure out how to make it worth their time if they aren't making money rigging it and marking up materials / equipment.


Our cash value is becoming worthless and the industry is dying off (less competition between builders) yet there is still demand. Both of those are unfortunately a recipe for high boat prices.

100%

when you start getting the six figure mark on a 21 ft. boat, most guys look at it like why not spend another 25 to 30K at this point and get a bigger or deck boat

 

[wzuber]

I don't think there's a market for small v-bottom boats anymore. Toons have really taken over for new average income buyers. Name a company that puts out new vees on a consistent basis? Didn't Eliminator throw away a vee mold due to not in demand?

Bayliner, Tahoe, rinker...........
Hey, you asked. Haha

 

[adam909]

It’s not that there’s no market for them, it’s there’s not a lot of profit margin with the cost to build. Most small boat builders primarily build 30ft. Boats that they charge 200k+ for. Ever wonder why Eliminator wants 30k for a bare 19 ft. Daytona?

Profit margin with the cost to build call it what you want theres just not a market of buyers wanting a 150k 22' boat. Any of the bigger custom boat builders had down time they would build a deck for inventory cause it would sell, not a small vee due to not a big market for them. If some one had 150k and wanted to buy a new boat. what would be the better buy, 21' vee or a 28' tritoon?

 

[adam909]

Bayliner, Tahoe, rinker...........
Hey, you asked. Haha

Of course those buyers looking for a small vee bottom would go that route. Not a custom boat builder.

 

[boatpi]

Tahiti sold one mold to Ultra way back when, maybe a 24'. I know as I was at Tahiti, they closed, then I see the exact boat with Ultra on the side next year.

 

[Smupser]

Profit margin with the cost to build call it what you want theres just not a market of buyers wanting a 150k 22' boat. Any of the bigger custom boat builders had down time they would build a deck for inventory cause it would sell, not a small vee due to not a big market for them. If some one had 150k and wanted to buy a new boat. what would be the better buy, 21' vee or a 28' tritoon?

That’s my point

 

[Smupser]

Tahiti sold one mold to Ultra way back when, maybe a 24'. I know as I was at Tahiti, they closed, then I see the exact boat with Ultra on the side next year.

Todd did Lay up a black one for ultra

 

[Your ad here]

Profit margin with the cost to build call it what you want theres just not a market of buyers wanting a 150k 22' boat. Any of the bigger custom boat builders had down time they would build a deck for inventory cause it would sell, not a small vee due to not a big market for them. If some one had 150k and wanted to buy a new boat. what would be the better buy, 21' vee or a 28' tritoon?

21' RC would be a better buy. A timeless look.

 

[Englewood]

Profit margin with the cost to build call it what you want theres just not a market of buyers wanting a 150k 22' boat. Any of the bigger custom boat builders had down time they would build a deck for inventory cause it would sell, not a small vee due to not a big market for them. If some one had 150k and wanted to buy a new boat. what would be the better buy, 21' vee or a 28' tritoon?

Great point. The 28’ toon would outperform a 21’ V in every way.

 

[RiverDave]

Great point. The 28’ toon would outperform a 21’ V in every way.

Well Except speed and fun to drive.

 

[Backlash]

When people refuse to pay these outrageous prices, and manufacturers start to realize their products aren't moving, then maybe things will change. I get it, material prices have gone up. But, something has to give somewhere along the supply/demand chain.

 

[Havasujaws]

I like the looks of the 26 shadow alot.

My buddy has one. Found it for sale in Texas a couple of years ago and loves it.

 

[Singleton]

My buddy has one. Found it for sale in Texas a couple of years ago and loves it.

I might be bias, but I love the 26 ShadowDeck. Great all around family boat

 

[SosaPerformance]

I would buy ultra if it was reasonably priced and could find a building in havasu .. I’ll three way call john and rusty .. wish me luck

 

[HBCraig]

What make this damn boat mold so good .
I see nothing special .
I have owned a 21 .
I’ll never buy one even 1/2 the price .
Carry on !

I have a JW Ultra and it's been great.

 

[Gelcoater]

I would buy ultra if it was reasonably priced and could find a building in havasu .. I’ll three way call john and rusty .. wish me luck

Look who the cat drug in

 

[SosaPerformance]

Look who the cat drug in

First time here .. wish I would have known sooner

 

[Gelcoater]

First time here .. wish I would have known sooner

Should we....

 

[Englewood]

Well Except speed and fun to drive.

From what 70+? The toon will be in the channel bbq’n before the 21 makes it across the bay.

The toon will have better acceleration, maneuverability, ride, turning, capacity, resale, etc.

I guess if bouncing all over the place is fun, a 21’ wins.

 

[Englewood]

I might be bias, but I love the 26 ShadowDeck. Great all around family boat

The only complaint I had on mine was the rear access. For a deck, it needs a platform or swim step of some sort. The small billet steps don’t do the job.

 

[Gelcoater]

I think there's a lot of potential there for someone who has the time, resources and passion to rebrand the company. I asked my wife a few months ago if I could try to purchase the assets/molds and start a boat company. She said that I have some great ideas but the answer is no. LOL

You should go buy her a new Corvette tomorrow and consider yourself financially getting off easy

 

[RiverDave]

First time here .. wish I would have known sooner

First time here .. wish I would have known sooner

Looks like you’ve been here before.. you got the hand stamp.

 

[Melloyellovector]

From what 70+? The toon will be in the channel bbq’n before the 21 makes it across the bay.

The toon will have better acceleration, maneuverability, ride, turning, capacity, resale, etc.

I guess if bouncing all over the place is fun, a 21’ wins.

havent owned many performance 21’s I assume?
my vector will accelerate faster, maneuver great, turn quicker at any speed, unless you wear a bikini impossible to not be smiling when you arrive. And ill be waiting for you to get to the beach 10 mins after me to make me some bbq lol ( I have full suspension seats so bouncing isn’t an issue either )
But I have a toon also, they are more comfortable, more reliable, better capacity. Resale, mehhhh who cares

 

[n2otoofast4u]

I would buy ultra if it was reasonably priced and could find a building in havasu .. I’ll three way call john and rusty .. wish me luck

Jesus shit! Have you finished a boat yet!? I LOVE the early showings, but it’s been crickets! Show us something!

 

[attitude]

Jesus shit! Have you finished a boat yet!? I LOVE the early showings, but it’s been crickets! Show us something!

He’s been posting on Instagram, he just popped a bottom out of the mold.

 

[RiverDave]

He’s been posting on Instagram, he just popped a bottom out of the mold.

Yes he did.. and the orders in those are about the same timelines as ultras.. so let’s all take a step back..

Pics in next post

 

[RiverDave]

Sosa true tunnel

 

[hallett21]

From what 70+? The toon will be in the channel bbq’n before the 21 makes it across the bay.

The toon will have better acceleration, maneuverability, ride, turning, capacity, resale, etc.

I guess if bouncing all over the place is fun, a 21’ wins.

Other than ride and capacity with a 250 outboard I’ll out accelerate, maneuver and turn your toon in my 21 lol. With a 300 see ya later.

If the toon costs 300k and the new 21 costs 140k I’m not sure there’s a difference in resale?

 

[Orange Juice]

Other than ride and capacity with a 250 outboard I’ll out accelerate, maneuver and turn your toon in my 21 lol. With a 300 see ya later.

If the toon costs 300k and the new 21 costs 140k I’m not sure there’s a difference in resale?

Eventually boating is coming to this for the average layman.

Two Rear Tractor Tubes 11.2-24, 12.4-24 with TR218 Offset Valve for use with Air or Fluid 11.2x24

For use in bias and radial tires For use with Air or Fluid Rear Farm Agriculture Heavy Duty Fits sizes 11.2-24 and 12.4-24

justubes.com

And I’m sure the under 12 kids crowd we’ll like it much better than a $140k Dad boat .

 

[pixrthis]

Other than ride and capacity with a 250 outboard I’ll out accelerate, maneuver and turn your toon in my 21 lol. With a 300 see ya later.

If the toon costs 300k and the new 21 costs 140k I’m not sure there’s a difference in resale?

Besides the fact that a 21 performance v is cool and a toon is a mini van on water.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

I went to Hallett a few months ago, $140k +/- for a 210 with a 540. It's hard to wrap my head around that kind money for a 21' and I think a lot of people feel the same so they buy something bigger LOL. When I think of a brand new 6 figure boat, I think of something bigger than a 21.

I've built a few 19 jet boats. You can easily hit the $100k mark without going full tilt on the build if you had a builder make it. The market for that boat is primarily owner/builder (hobbyist). The guy producing the blank hull has to figure out how to make it worth their time if they aren't making money rigging it and marking up materials / equipment.


Our cash value is becoming worthless and the industry is dying off (less competition between builders) yet there is still demand. Both of those are unfortunately a recipe for high boat prices.

Question for those in the know; Is the drive package cost the limiting factor?
It seems like the bigger badder more feature rich products make up for the margin erosion of the smaller boats. The toons seem like they can overcome this hurdle with production efficiency. Plus its fairly easy to upfit more power with the OB drive package, or save costs with finish materials on the toons.

I find it fascinating how the market pivoted after the great recession and wonder how the EPA standards influenced the switch to toons from V bottom pleasure crafts for the middle class.

I also find is interesting how late 90's to Mid 2000 performance boat pricing has stayed relatively high. Finance options for these boats might influence the maintenance of the prices however. I'm a nerd for this kind of stuff, but I wonder what the long term looks like for performance boating and what kind of production opportunity might be floating around in boating enthusiast minds. Could a DIY kit boat make sense if a drive package was available? Could you circumvent EPA standards if you sold a ready to assemble less motor kit? Something that used a lower cost turn key LS motor, with a lower cost drive like maybe a Jet? Figure out how to sell all the rigging and interior, and lastly lower the costs of the hull by using production manufacturing practice and not custom. Build a shopping cart or affiliate links to the appropriate accessories to finish the boat. Extra points if you could offer a finance option for the major purchases.

I think a 21 foot v bottom LS powered boat could be cool. Maybe I'm just a day dreamer. Three different top choices. Open Bow, Closed Bow and Whaler (Sport fishing).

Thanks for humoring me, this is what I do every day at work. Find new products and services for a publicly traded global company. I can't help but look at things through this lens.

 

[JFMFG]

Question for those in the know; Is the drive package cost the limiting factor?
It seems like the bigger badder more feature rich products make up for the margin erosion of the smaller boats. The toons seem like they can overcome this hurdle with production efficiency. Plus its fairly easy to upfit more power with the OB drive package, or save costs with finish materials on the toons.

I find it fascinating how the market pivoted after the great recession and wonder how the EPA standards influenced the switch to toons from V bottom pleasure crafts for the middle class.

I also find is interesting how late 90's to Mid 2000 performance boat pricing has stayed relatively high. Finance options for these boats might influence the maintenance of the prices however. I'm a nerd for this kind of stuff, but I wonder what the long term looks like for performance boating and what kind of production opportunity might be floating around in boating enthusiast minds. Could a DIY kit boat make sense if a drive package was available? Could you circumvent EPA standards if you sold a ready to assemble less motor kit? Something that used a lower cost turn key LS motor, with a lower cost drive like maybe a Jet? Figure out how to sell all the rigging and interior, and lastly lower the costs of the hull by using production manufacturing practice and not custom. Build a shopping cart or affiliate links to the appropriate accessories to finish the boat. Extra points if you could offer a finance option for the major purchases.

I think a 21 foot v bottom LS powered boat could be cool. Maybe I'm just a day dreamer. Three different top choices. Open Bow, Closed Bow and Whaler (Sport fishing).

Thanks for humoring me, this is what I do every day at work. Find new products and services for a publicly traded global company. I can't help but look at things through this lens.

To be honest I think an engine and drive package will run 40-50k for a 520-565 range. Then you need to add hydraulic steering etc. I think the switch to the toon crazy is reliable horsepower and able to push the party barge down river at 50-70 mph vs the “old pontoons” at 25mph. There is a play craft in havasu with a number 6 drive on it that passed me in our old magic I tried like hell to catch him and couldn’t.

 

[NicPaus]

To be honest I think an engine and drive package will run 40-50k for a 520-565 range. Then you need to add hydraulic steering etc. I think the switch to the toon crazy is reliable horsepower and able to push the party barge down river at 50-70 mph vs the “old pontoons” at 25mph. There is a play craft in havasu with a number 6 drive on it that passed me in our old magic I tried like hell to catch him and couldn’t.

I was wondering why you upgraded. Damn toon!

 

[bonesfab]

Question for those in the know; Is the drive package cost the limiting factor?
It seems like the bigger badder more feature rich products make up for the margin erosion of the smaller boats. The toons seem like they can overcome this hurdle with production efficiency. Plus its fairly easy to upfit more power with the OB drive package, or save costs with finish materials on the toons.

I find it fascinating how the market pivoted after the great recession and wonder how the EPA standards influenced the switch to toons from V bottom pleasure crafts for the middle class.

I also find is interesting how late 90's to Mid 2000 performance boat pricing has stayed relatively high. Finance options for these boats might influence the maintenance of the prices however. I'm a nerd for this kind of stuff, but I wonder what the long term looks like for performance boating and what kind of production opportunity might be floating around in boating enthusiast minds. Could a DIY kit boat make sense if a drive package was available? Could you circumvent EPA standards if you sold a ready to assemble less motor kit? Something that used a lower cost turn key LS motor, with a lower cost drive like maybe a Jet? Figure out how to sell all the rigging and interior, and lastly lower the costs of the hull by using production manufacturing practice and not custom. Build a shopping cart or affiliate links to the appropriate accessories to finish the boat. Extra points if you could offer a finance option for the major purchases.

I think a 21 foot v bottom LS powered boat could be cool. Maybe I'm just a day dreamer. Three different top choices. Open Bow, Closed Bow and Whaler (Sport fishing).

Thanks for humoring me, this is what I do every day at work. Find new products and services for a publicly traded global company. I can't help but look at things through this lens.

A 19-20ft jet boat with a 525 ls3 would be pretty bad ass. engine and drive package would be around 25k would be my guess. So what does a hull and interior run??