Russia and Ukraine

[monkeyswrench]

Stripped of his Seal endorsement & Trident in 19', when he was officially listed as a 'Deserter'. Wife divorced him in 18', numerous charges, including like 10 felony domestic abuse charges. Navy doesn't need to smear him, he's done a good enough job of that himself it would seem.

I saw his ink on his left arm, and wanted to give him the benefit of doubt though. When it was first reported overseas, it was back and forth, AWOL or active. That was also in Italian and Spanish language media though. I have a hard time believing our media of late. It was just Friday night the story came out here...and my hick ass heard about it a few days before.

If he was a deserter, a felon and an all around bad guy, why did the state department say they were in contact with the family, doing everything they could to help? Just because he was fighting for "their" side over there?

Whatever the case, he's gone now. I feel bad for his 4 kids. They lost their father, and any chance of him being or becoming a decent guy. Now he's labeled everywhere as a deserter, abuser and mercenary. The kids of all these soldiers, both sides, I feel bad for. They didn't choose any of this, and yet have to endure all of it.

 

[530RL]

Not sure what kind of fight worthy you're talking about here.
My brother [ who was in the air force ] and others from the regular army, joined civilian freedom fighters to fight against the Russian run communist party in Hungary. It didn't end Russian occupation of Hungary for 33 years. Only the the slow chipping away weakening Russia's economy by US backed allies, , brought results during Reagan and Gorbachev, bringing down the Berlin wall to start with.
Maybe you're all for more mayhem, drafting young people to help Ukraine's corrupt leaders to fight Russia.
I think you underestimate Russians all together, this escalation may not end well. I can say, only the old fossils in power who don't care what could happen outside of Ukraine.
The western powers betrayed the agreement not to expand NATO to Ukraine was a big blow to Putin's and his general's ego. Even if somehow. someone take Putin out, it wouldn't be the end of the conflict, IMO.

You do not have to like Russia to see this, and you can detest Vladimir Putin until the cows come home. The fundamental issue remains the same: the Russians view NATO on their border as an act of aggression and a threat to their national security, and we have known this for decades.

My geography may be a little hazy but if I remember correctly Ukraine is not part of NATO, yet Poland, Slovakia, Romania and Hungary are.

By invading Ukraine, Putin put 3 additional NATO countries on his border? And Poland went from a small sliver to a majority of its Eastern border. If having NATO on his border is a threat, why is he putting more NATO countries on his new border? And why invade Ukraine if NATO is the threat? Ukraine was not part of NATO. If the threat is NATO on the border as some would argue, why not invade Norway, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary and Turkey all NATO members that border Russia prior to the invasion? Invading Ukraine expands NATO’s border with Russia, it does not reduce it.

Possibly the NATO on his border argument is a red herring and the real intent is to put the former Soviet Republic back into place all the way through East Berlin. And this is the start. If we don’t stand up now, why should he expect us to stand up as he continues putting his republic back together.

On the other hand this could just be a whole scam where Joe and Hunter get ten percent of every dollar flowing to Ukraine and can hide all that money away without anyone ever discovering its existence.

 

[monkeyswrench]

My geography may be a little hazy but if I remember correctly Ukraine is not part of NATO, yet Poland, Slovakia, Romania and Hungary are.

By invading Ukraine, Putin put 3 additional NATO countries on his border? And Poland went from a small sliver to a majority of its Eastern border. If having NATO on his border is a threat, why is he putting more NATO countries on his new border? And why invade Ukraine if NATO is the threat? Ukraine was not part of NATO. If the threat is NATO on the border as some would argue, why not invade Norway, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary and Turkey all NATO members that border Russia prior to the invasion? Invading Ukraine expands NATO’s border with Russia, it does not reduce it.

Possibly the NATO on his border argument is a red herring and the real intent is to put the former Soviet Republic back into place all the way through East Berlin. And the road to East Berlin is through Ukraine and Poland.

On the other hand this could just be a whole scam where Joe and Hunter get ten percent of every dollar flowing to Ukraine and can hide all that money away without anyone ever discovering its existence.

The maps from your era must have been a tad different..Belarus is just north of Ukraine, Poland and Moldova I believe to the west. The strategic significance of placing nukes, tanks or troops in north eastern Ukraine is the fact that it's the closest point to Moscow from a non-Russian friendly country.
If Russia decided to financially back Mexico, they seem to be flexible that way, and build a strategic base in Ensenada, we, as a people, would throw a fit. Essentially, NATO has financially backed Ukraine, which has the same high moral standards as Mexico.

 

[JDKRXW]

My geography may be a little hazy but if I remember correctly Ukraine is not part of NATO, yet Poland, Slovakia, Romania and Hungary are.

Look at a map.
What body of water does the entire Ukraine lie on? (hint; it connects all of Eastern Europe to the Mediteranian).

Think this is worth fighting for if you know that NATO is coming for all the other countries on this water too?

 

[Sandlord]

Russia needs/wants Ukraine for food and rare earth minerals At the very least.

For centuries, Ukraine has been known as “the breadbasket of Europe.”

Ukraine can feed the world

The launch of an agricultural land market will leave Ukraine well placed to assume an ever-greater role in global food security, says Ukraine's Minister of Agrarian Policy Roman Leshchenko.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

“We think Ukraine can be a very valuable partner in the whole value chain in this new ecosystem that we are building across the European Union,” Šefčovič said. “We are going to help Ukraine to align its regulatory mining framework to that of the EU, committing to the highest environmental, social and governance standards.”

EU, Ukraine sign ‘strategic partnership’ on raw materials

Kyiv will be invited on Tuesday (13 July) to join EU industrial alliances on batteries and raw materials, with a view to develop an entire value chain of the extraction, refining and recycling of minerals in Ukraine to supply the EU market for electric cars and digital equipment.

www.euractiv.com

 

[monkeyswrench]

Russia needs/wants Ukraine for food and rare earth minerals At the very least.

For centuries, Ukraine has been known as “the breadbasket of Europe.”

Ukraine can feed the world

The launch of an agricultural land market will leave Ukraine well placed to assume an ever-greater role in global food security, says Ukraine's Minister of Agrarian Policy Roman Leshchenko.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

“We think Ukraine can be a very valuable partner in the whole value chain in this new ecosystem that we are building across the European Union,” Šefčovič said. “We are going to help Ukraine to align its regulatory mining framework to that of the EU, committing to the highest environmental, social and governance standards.”

EU, Ukraine sign ‘strategic partnership’ on raw materials

Kyiv will be invited on Tuesday (13 July) to join EU industrial alliances on batteries and raw materials, with a view to develop an entire value chain of the extraction, refining and recycling of minerals in Ukraine to supply the EU market for electric cars and digital equipment.

www.euractiv.com

If they regulate Ukraine the same way they have started to regulate Holland and Sweden, the farms will barely sustain their own country.
I also don't have any idea of what the environmental impacts of the munitions used in the war will do. It's been studied that the DU rounds used in the middle east caused issues with ground water and such, but that was not farmland. There seems to be a ton of artillery battles in Ukraine, craters across the farmers fields. A disc will smooth it back out easily enough, but what chemicals are left in the dirt?

 

[spectras only]

@530RL. everyone who paid attention to history and politics knows, Putin would love to turn back Russia being CCCP again. However, Berlin, Budapest, Warsaw, Prague to name a few, was never part of the CCCP. It was botched by the US and England. Stalin duped both Roosevelt [ who was nearly on his death bed ] and Churchill during the Jalta accord. I don't believe one minute Putin is interested expanding into as far as Berlin, as you quoted. I do believe, he wants part of Ukraine/Crimea with large Russian population back with Russia, and maintain his naval fleet stationed there. No way Putin would give Crimea back to the Ukraine, that was a mistake, given to Ukraine as a gesture in the 50's. I know Russians from my previous work places, one was a second officer of a cruise ship from Odessa. He and many Russian immigrants I've met are behind Putin on the Ukraine issue.
Reminder, I don't care for both, Russians or Ukrainians, experienced both of them when I was only ten. My memory is still pretty good. even remember back as far as 1950, my brother was my idol, taking me on motortbike rides sitting on the gas tank with him, and ride of his personal Dodge Weapon carrier left behind in WWII while he was a Lieutenant in the air force. Today, I'd still love to have one of those Jeeps.
My brother [ he was born in 1930 ] in the far right, ca 1952.

Brother and me front of a friend's Cherokee Warrior in 1986 Abbotsford BC

 

[530RL]

@530RL. everyone who paid attention to history and politics knows, Putin would love to turn back Russia being CCCP again. However, Berlin, Budapest, Warsaw, Prague to name a few, was never part of the CCCP. It was botched by the US and England. Stalin duped both Roosevelt [ who was nearly on his death bed ] and Churchill during the Jalta accord. I don't believe one minute Putin is interested expanding into as far as Berlin, as you quoted. I do believe, he wants part of Ukraine/Crimea with large Russian population back with Russia, and maintain his naval fleet stationed there. No way Putin would give Crimea back to the Ukraine, that was a mistake, given to Ukraine as a gesture in the 50's. I know Russians from my previous work places, one was a second officer of a cruise ship from Odessa. He and many Russian immigrants I've met are behind Putin on the Ukraine issue.
Reminder, I don't care for both, Russians or Ukrainians, experienced both of them when I was only ten. My memory is still pretty good. even remember back as far as 1950, my brother was my idol, taking me on motortbike rides sitting on the gas tank with him, and ride of his personal Dodge Weapon carrier left behind in WWII while he was a Lieutenant in the air force. Today, I'd still love to have one of those Jeeps.
My brother [ he was born in 1930 ] in the far right, ca 1952.
View attachment 1191561
Brother and me front of a friend's Cherokee Warrior in 1986 Abbotsford BC
View attachment 1191562

At the end of the day, it is in America’s best interest to keep Putin tied up in Ukraine rather than let him expand past Ukraine and engage against a NATO member.

As Chamberlin demonstrated, appeasement will not work and had Western nations rolled over and let Putin have Ukraine, he certainly would have kept rolling.

 

[spectras only]

Chamberlain's appeasements, were all just before his death, he was a very weak man. Churchill and Roosevelt shouldn't have given in to Stalin in Jalta the time they were still supposed to be WWII allies against Nazi Germany. They screwed people's lives for decades of non communist countries previously, like Hungary, Poland , Czechoslovakia, etc...!

 

[530RL]

Chamberlain's appeasements, were all just before his death, he was a very weak man. Churchill and Roosevelt shouldn't have given in to Stalin in Jalta the time they were still supposed to be WWII allies against Nazi Germany. They screwed people's lives for decades of non communist countries previously, like Hungary, Poland , Czechoslovakia, etc...!

Exactly why we and Western Allie’s should suppprt Ukraine.

To stop the Soviet’s ambition of spreading communism once again.

I remain perplexed on how some do not understand that.

 

[Racey]

Exactly why we and Western Allie’s should suppprt Ukraine.

To stop the Soviet’s ambition of spreading communism once again.

I remain perplexed on how some do not understand that.

It's Vietnam all over....

 

[530RL]

It's Vietnam all over....

Interesting observation.

2.7 million American troops served in Vietnam.

None as of yet in Ukraine excluding those protecting our embassy.

Seems to me the whole point of Western countries supporting Ukraine is to avoid US troops having to defend NATO countries.

 

[monkeyswrench]

At the end of the day, it is in America’s best interest to keep Putin tied up in Ukraine rather than let him expand past Ukraine and engage against a NATO member.

As Chamberlin demonstrated, appeasement will not work and had Western nations rolled over and let Putin have Ukraine, he certainly would have kept rolling.

Aside from the label of NATO on Ukraine, Russians already see this as a war against NATO, not just Ukraine. NATO keeps saying "we aren't really involved, we just support Ukraine..." A blind man sees this for what it is. We have past the point of proxy war once the US admitted we were doing the targeting for our missiles, launched from Ukraine. When civilians are posting shrapnel marked in Latin Script...not Russian nor Ukrainian, we aren't exactly winning the hearts and minds of people in Donetske or Soledar.

Funny you bring up Chamberlin. Who was he fighting again? Oh, that's right, Hitler and the Nazis. Now then, who was this Stepan Bandera I referred to before? The guy the Ukrainian Nationalists idolize, was a Nazi sympathizer. He helped orchestrate the slaughter of Jews, as well as Poles and anyone that didn't agree with the cause.
He did so to eliminate competition, as well as gain favor with the Reich.

When and if they succeed in killing all the Russians, both those invading, and those born there, what then will they turn their attention to? Maybe this is why the Poles aren't too keen on lending a hand. This weekend, in the Transcarpathian region, the speakers from the military told those wishing for autonomy to ignore such dreams. They were told they will always be Ukrainian, and violence will fall on any who seek a separate state.

 

[spectras only]

My take on Putin is, he's not a communist anymore. In his earlier years, he was a devote communist, KGB strong arm and may even called as a hard core patriot of the old CCCP. How ever, as years gone by, times changed, and he's more like a nationalist for the country of Russia not the people. He's proud of present Russia, wanting to deter Western interference. Maybe call him even a patriot, lol. He's far from Marxism as well, hence enjoying personal wealth, money and things, like yachts, cars not unlike any western leaders. Putin's economic model is strongly right wing as you can see his gas exports going east to west. Not to west as of now though , lol. Did you know, real hardline communist Brezhnev had dozens of American made automobiles in his personal collection? Only seen in Soviet made ZIL limousines in parades and diplomatic events.s,

ps; monkeywrench, Chamberlain, never fought the Nazis, he was an appeaser. Churchill fought the Nazis.

 

[530RL]

My take on Putin is, he's not a communist anymore. In his earlier years, he was a devote communist, KGB strong arm and may even called as a hard core patriot of the old CCCP. How ever, as years gone by, times changed, and he's more like a nationalist, proud of present Russia, wanting to deter Western interference. Maybe call him even a patriot, lol. He's far from Marxism as well, hence enjoying personal wealth, money and things, like yachts, cars not unlike any western leaders.

So your view is that Ukraine and other NATO bordering countries to Russia such as Poland and Hungary would be better off back under the rule of Russia/Putin as opposed to being democracies?

Obviously I do not. Which is why I support helping to defend Ukraine and if Ukraine falls Hungary, Poland and other NATO members. For Putin is not stopping if he takes Ukraine.

 

[HotRod82]

So your view is that Ukraine and other NATO bordering countries to Russia such as Poland and Hungary would be better off back under the rule of Russia/Putin as opposed to being democracies?

Obviously I do not. Which is why I support helping to defend Ukraine and if Ukraine falls Hungary, Poland and other NATO members. For Putin is not stopping if he takes Ukraine.

This argument makes no sense whatsoever. Why would Putin "keep rolling" into NATO countries? He knows full well that would result in WW3 and the total destruction of the planet.

Serious question - do you think Putin will graciously accept defeat in Ukraine and just leave?

There is going to be nothing left of Ukraine by the time this is over. I'll go even further by saying we will be lucky to not get nuked by the time this is over. I don't see Putin as being a gracious loser.

 

[530RL]

This argument makes no sense whatsoever. Why would Putin "keep rolling" into NATO countries? He knows full well that would result in WW3 and the total destruction of the planet.

Serious question - do you think Putin will graciously accept defeat in Ukraine and just leave?

There is going to be nothing left of Ukraine by the time this is over. I'll go even further by saying we will be lucky to not get nuked by the time this is over. I don't see Putin as being a gracious loser.

Is your view that if the west just rolls over and lets Putin have Ukraine he will be happy with stopping there?

 

[was thatguy]

Exactly why we and Western Allie’s should suppprt Ukraine.

To stop the Soviet’s ambition of spreading communism once again.

I remain perplexed on how some do not understand that.

Because that is NOT why we are currently “supporting” Ukraine.

 

[spectras only]

So your view is that Ukraine and other NATO bordering countries to Russia such as Poland and Hungary would be better off back under the rule of Russia/Putin as opposed to being democracies?

Obviously I do not. Which is why I support helping to defend Ukraine and if Ukraine falls Hungary, Poland and other NATO members. For Putin is not stopping if he takes Ukraine.

Neither Hungary or Poland would go back under Russian rule IMHO, even though both countries are in the NATO.
But I'm sure Putin would love to have all the countries Russia had during the Soviet regime. You know what, if Hungary got its former western territory of Carpathia back from Ukraine and declared it an independent sovereign state, Hungary wouldn't have a mutual border with Ukraine anymore to worry about Putin. My old country of Hungary had Western culture and Western values in its former time in hundreds of centuries, until WWI, when Western allies stripped 2/3 rd of territories of Hungary in Trianon. Fuck all politicians. We should never have stopped the Ottoman Empire to expand into Western Europe at the borders of Hungary, maybe Hungary would have been appreciated more, especially by the EU now a days, what Hungary did for them in the past.
Hungary always dreamed of being a sovereign country. The Ottoman Empire ran over Hungary , occupied the Kings Castle in Budapest for 150 bloody years before finally moved out. Why should I care if Ukraine looses some of its territories where mostly Russians live there?
ps; I truly hope, this conflict will end without countries from outside get involved to deep of no return.
Putin and even some Ukranians possibly hope this Zelensky comedian is either thrown the towel in or disappear with his money somewhere and the rebuild could start.

 

[was thatguy]

Is your view that if the west just rolls over and lets Putin have Ukraine he will be happy with stopping there?

Take a good hard look at our OWN government that you support because it’s “anyone but Trump”, then tell me straight faced that we are fighting against the spread of communism.

 

[530RL]

Neither Hungary or Poland would go back under Russian rule IMHO, even though both countries are in the NATO.
But I'm sure Putin would love to have all the countries Russia had during the Soviet regime. You know what, if Hungary got its former western territory of Carpathia back from Ukraine and declared it an independent sovereign state, Hungary wouldn't have a mutual border with Ukraine anymore to worry about Putin. My old country of Hungary had Western culture and Western values in its former time in hundreds of centuries, until WWI, when Western allies stripped 2/3 rd of territories of Hungary in Trianon. Fuck all politicians. We should never have stopped the Ottoman Empire to expand into Western Europe at the borders of Hungary, maybe Hungary would have been appreciated more, especially by the EU now a days, what Hungary did for them in the past.
Hungary always dreamed of being a sovereign country. The Ottoman Empire ran over Hungary , occupied the Kings Castle in Budapest for 150 bloody years before finally moved out. Why should I care if Ukraine looses some of its territories where mostly Russians live there?

All fair observations.

The Vichy government of France as well
as Italy supported Germany. Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, even Vietnam fought the US yet all now our ally’s.

Policy makers live in the here and now, yet hopefully learn from history. Living in the past is for the dead.

There are two options in the here and now, let Ukraine fall to communism or defend it.

That is where we are. So I care and have come to the conclusion that defending Ukraine from communism and totalitarianism is the right thing to do. As has the United States and our Western Allies.

 

[Racey]

Interesting observation.

2.7 million American troops served in Vietnam.

None as of yet in Ukraine excluding those protecting our embassy.

Seems to me the whole point of Western countries supporting Ukraine is to avoid US troops having to defend NATO countries.

And how many served there from 1961 until 1965? And how many billions spent...

I understand you like printing money out of thin air to protect the borders of other countries, as a true conservative of course....

 

[was thatguy]

And how many served there from 1961 until 1965? And how many billions spent...

I understand you like printing money out of thin air to protect the borders of other countries, as a true conservative of course....

It’s funny watching him try to debate someone who’s lived it.

It’s like he doesn’t realize that there isnt a good side to pick.

 

[spectras only]

I'm a non practicing Catholic, but have an interesting trivia for those who interested in history. Hunyadi of Hungary who fought the Turks and won the battle of Belgrade.
"However, plague broke out in Hunyadi's camp three weeks after the lifting of the siege, and he died on August 11. He was buried inside the (Roman Catholic) Cathedral of Alba Iulia (Gyulafehérvár), next to his younger brother John. Sultan Mehmet II paid him tribute: "Although he was my enemy I feel grief over his death, because the world has never seen such a man."[citation needed]"

During the battle, Pope Callixtus III had ordered the bells of every European church to be rung every day at noon, as a call for believers to pray for the defenders of Belgrade. However, in many countries (like England and the Spanish kingdoms), news of the victory arrived before the order, and the ringing of the church bells at noon thus transformed into a commemoration of the victory. The pope never withdrew the order, and many Catholic and older Protestant churches still ring the noon bell to this day

 

[monkeyswrench]

Live in the now, learn from history...

This was taken and posted last summer, by a fellow American, who's decided to fight for Ukraine.
Nice tapestries they have in that part of town. I'd think it was for a movie set, if it weren't for the T-shirt as well.

 

[HotRod82]

Is your view that if the west just rolls over and lets Putin have Ukraine he will be happy with stopping there?

Yes.
If Putin wanted to "roll into" any NATO country, why wouldn't he have just done it before now? Ukraine is in no way a lynchpin to invade other countries. If Putin was hellbent on gaining territory, why didn't he keep going after he took Crimea? There was literally ZERO resistance to them taking that territory. Don't forget, Putin offered a plan to avoid this war. Putin simply wanted a guarantee Ukraine would not join Nato, that's it. Thanks to Biden and Bojo, we are where we are. By the end of all this, Ukraine will be a smoldering ruin. Hopefully, NYC and Washington DC are not also in ruins.

 

[spectras only]

Dinamo Kiev, is that a soccer team there?

 

[monkeyswrench]

Yes.
If Putin wanted to "roll into" any NATO country, why wouldn't he have just done it before now? Ukraine is in no way a lynchpin to invade other countries. If Putin was hellbent on gaining territory, why didn't he keep going after he took Crimea? There was literally ZERO resistance to them taking that territory. Don't forget, Putin offered a plan to avoid this war. Putin simply wanted a guarantee Ukraine would not join Nato, that's it. Thanks to Biden and Bojo, we are where we are. By the end of all this, Ukraine will be a smoldering ruin. Hopefully, NYC and Washington DC are not also in ruins.

If NATO was really about peace, they would not have stood by for the past 8 years as the Eastern parts of Ukraine were shelled, or watched them cut off utilities to ethnic Russian villages.

They also wouldn't have let Biden know the exact week Russia was going to invade...but they knew because they had escalated the bombing of civilian targets the week before.

I'm no fan of Putin, but I'm less of a fan war for profit. Blood money with cartels in Mexico is chump change compared to what we're seeing. This isn't capitalism, this is genocide for profit. Essentially, the war machine is drinking the blood of both sides, and could care less how many innocent lives are lost. They fed one beast, to fight another, but have no emotional ties to their creation. Like someone fighting a dog in a pit against a rival. They don't care what happens to the dog.

 

[JDKRXW]

There are two options in the here and now, let Ukraine fall to communism or defend it.

There is a 3rd option - and it's the one I expect will happen to stop the fighting.
Ukraine is going to be divided.
Russia taking the east portion of the country and the west (NATO) taking what's left. And what's been spent so far is peanuts compared to what's coming.

 

[Wedgy]

All fair observations.

The Vichy government of France as well
as Italy supported Germany. Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, even Vietnam fought the US yet all now our ally’s.

Policy makers live in the here and now, yet hopefully learn from history. Living in the past is for the dead.

There are two options in the here and now, let Ukraine fall to communism or defend it.

That is where we are. So I care and have come to the conclusion that defending Ukraine from communism and totalitarianism is the right thing to do. As has the United States and our Western Allies.

So then why do you ignore the Communist regime takeover facilitated by the U.S. in Brazil? If you, as you say you want to really fight communism, why not start at home? Why wasn't defending Brazil from communism on your radar? $$$?

 

[Sandlord]

List of Every Communist Country in the World as of 2021:​

• China
• Cuba
• Laos (Lao People's Democratic Republic)
• North Korea
• Vietnam

Is Russia a communist country?​

Technically, Russia today is a "multi-party representative democracy." In fact, experts are even split as to whether Russia's former state, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (U.S.S.R.), was a communist, socialist, or "state capitalist" government. At any rate, Russia's 1993 constitution declared the country a democratic, federative, law-based state with a republican government. Russia has a dual executive consisting of a president and prime minister with the president, currently Vladimir Putin, as the dominant figure.

That said, few would argue that Russia is a truly free democracy, given the current administration's habit of jailing (or eliminating) political opponents, prohibiting a free press, preventing fair elections, and amending the constitution to enable Putin to remain in power until 2036 (the previous constitution would have required him to step down when his current term expires in 2024).

Communist Countries 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

 

[monkeyswrench]

List of Every Communist Country in the World as of 2021:​

• China
• Cuba
• Laos (Lao People's Democratic Republic)
• North Korea
• Vietnam

Is Russia a communist country?​

Technically, Russia today is a "multi-party representative democracy." In fact, experts are even split as to whether Russia's former state, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (U.S.S.R.), was a communist, socialist, or "state capitalist" government. At any rate, Russia's 1993 constitution declared the country a democratic, federative, law-based state with a republican government. Russia has a dual executive consisting of a president and prime minister with the president, currently Vladimir Putin, as the dominant figure.

That said, few would argue that Russia is a truly free democracy, given the current administration's habit of jailing (or eliminating) political opponents, prohibiting a free press, preventing fair elections, and amending the constitution to enable Putin to remain in power until 2036 (the previous constitution would have required him to step down when his current term expires in 2024).

Communist Countries 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

Yes, but this doesn't fit the war machine's narrative they've been preaching since 1950...

 

[bonesfab]

Hopefully, NYC and Washington DC are not also in ruins.

We would probably be better off if they were though.

 

[bonesfab]

​

That said, few would argue that Usa is a truly free democracy, given the current administration's habit of jailing (or eliminating) political opponents, prohibiting a free press, preventing fair elections, and amending the constitution to enable biden to remain in power until 2036 (the previous constitution would have required him to step down when his current term expires in 2024).

Fixed it for those that needed help.

 

[Racey]

Yes.
If Putin wanted to "roll into" any NATO country, why wouldn't he have just done it before now? Ukraine is in no way a lynchpin to invade other countries. If Putin was hellbent on gaining territory, why didn't he keep going after he took Crimea? There was literally ZERO resistance to them taking that territory. Don't forget, Putin offered a plan to avoid this war. Putin simply wanted a guarantee Ukraine would not join Nato, that's it. Thanks to Biden and Bojo, we are where we are. By the end of all this, Ukraine will be a smoldering ruin. Hopefully, NYC and Washington DC are not also in ruins.

And how quickly people have forgotten that Ukraine had been shelling the eastern regions that refused to acknowledge their coup'd government that formed in 2014 as legitimate.

50k casualties of Ukraine on Ukraine fighting before Russia eve set foot into the area.

 

[monkeyswrench]

And how quickly people have forgotten that Ukraine had been shelling the eastern regions that refused to acknowledge their coup'd government that formed in 2014 as legitimate.

50k casualties of Ukraine on Ukraine fighting before Russia eve set foot into the area.

The media here doesn't talk about it, so it must not have happened.

What about in 2014, when the very antifa-like protesters surrounded a trade hall, chasing people inside. They then torched it, and beat anyone escaping the flames...with pre-cut iron pipes, handed out before the protest.

These were the people Obama backed...or whoever in the government here. Teens, retirees...male, female, killed, burned, beaten.

 

[530RL]

And how quickly people have forgotten that Ukraine had been shelling the eastern regions that refused to acknowledge their coup'd government that formed in 2014 as legitimate.

50k casualties of Ukraine on Ukraine fighting before Russia eve set foot into the area.

Interesting view of history.

Russia invaded Ukraine in February, 2014.

Poroshenko was elected on May 25, 2014.

The fighting in the Donbas, or as you call it “Ukraine on Ukraine fighting” is/was Russian backed separatists fighting Ukrainian government forces.

Russian feet were firmly in the area both with an invasion of Crimea and in the backing and fighting with separatists in the Donbas.

 

[Racey]

Interesting view of history.

Russia invaded Ukraine in February, 2014.

Poroshenko was elected on May 25, 2014.

The fighting in the Donbas, or as you call it “Ukraine on Ukraine fighting” is/was Russian backed separatists fighting Ukrainian government forces.

Russian feet were firmly in the area both with an invasion of Crimea and in the backing and fighting with separatists in the Donbas.

Russia secured their base in Crimea, that they had rights to, and secured the surrounding region as the coup was beginning. Then for 8 years didn't do anything while Kiev was shelling Donbas who wouldn't partake in a government that wasn't duly elected and was the result of the west supported backed and funded coup.

The US was absolutely part of it from day 1

It's almost like the US partsking in the overthrowing of governments ends up having bad consequences

 

[Sandlord]

Russia secured their base in Crimea, that they had rights to, and secured the surrounding region as the coup was beginning. Then for 8 years didn't do anything while Kiev was shelling Donbas who wouldn't partake in a government that wasn't duly elected and was the result of the west supported backed and funded coup.

The US was absolutely part of it from day 1

It's almost like the US partsking in the overthrowing of governments ends up having bad consequences

Mc’Cain, Nuland and CIA trained snipers.

This is striking, for McCain flew to Kiev in December 2013 to give an address to Maidan protesters, flanked by known Neo-Nazi Oleh Tyahnybok. Then-State Department official Victoria Nuland, now Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs, was also present, notoriously handing out motivational cookies to attendees.

 

[regor]

For those of us old enough to remember, fighting communism and totalitarianism is a worthy fight.

But I understand unfortunately that is a view that many no longer believe.

aka we've got to keep the money laundering going!!!!!!!!

Zelenskiy promises to swiftly confront Ukraine corruption

The Ukrainian president's pledge came amidst allegations of senior-level corruption, including a report of dubious practices in military procurement despite officials promoting national unity to confront the invasion.

www.reuters.com

Now that MAGA is in charge of the House printing machine, the puppet says he's going to "confront" the rampant corruption........................................

 

[94Nautique]

My geography may be a little hazy but if I remember correctly Ukraine is not part of NATO, yet Poland, Slovakia, Romania and Hungary are.

By invading Ukraine, Putin put 3 additional NATO countries on his border? And Poland went from a small sliver to a majority of its Eastern border. If having NATO on his border is a threat, why is he putting more NATO countries on his new border? And why invade Ukraine if NATO is the threat? Ukraine was not part of NATO. If the threat is NATO on the border as some would argue, why not invade Norway, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary and Turkey all NATO members that border Russia prior to the invasion? Invading Ukraine expands NATO’s border with Russia, it does not reduce it.

Possibly the NATO on his border argument is a red herring and the real intent is to put the former Soviet Republic back into place all the way through East Berlin. And this is the start. If we don’t stand up now, why should he expect us to stand up as he continues putting his republic back together.

On the other hand this could just be a whole scam where Joe and Hunter get ten percent of every dollar flowing to Ukraine and can hide all that money away without anyone ever discovering its existence.

please explain how someone that was kicked out of the service with a cocaine dependency and no discernable skills is able to pay $50k a month in rent.

"Anti-war advocates blasted U.S. lawmakers on Thursday, one day after it was reported that Congress is expected to pass an $847 billion military budget for the coming fiscal year even though the Pentagon recently failed its fifth consecutive annual audit and nearly 40 million people nationwide are living in poverty."

"On September 10, 2001, then U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld disclosed that his department was unable to account for roughly $2.3 trillion worth of transactions. The next day, the U.S. sustained the terrorist attacks that changed the world, and this startling revelation was forgotten."

you act like the govt actually knows where all the money is, and is willing to share that info. Biden is the govt, has been a govt twat forever and its not hard to believe he's a funnel for bucks. But you're likely a little hazy on that...

 

[HotRod82]

One thing for sure, Ukraine is a stinking mess.
NEVER has a situation like this turned out in our favor. This will blow up in our face just like Korea, Vietnam, and Afghanistan.

 

[Racey]

One thing for sure, Ukraine is a stinking mess.
NEVER has a situation like this turned out in our favor. This will blow up in our face just like Korea, Vietnam, and Afghanistan.

BuT wE HaVe To SeNd BiLLiOnS tO fiGht ThA CoMmuNisTs

 

[530RL]

Russia secured their base in Crimea, that they had rights to, and secured the surrounding region as the coup was beginning. Then for 8 years didn't do anything while Kiev was shelling Donbas who wouldn't partake in a government that wasn't duly elected and was the result of the west supported backed and funded coup.

The US was absolutely part of it from day 1

It's almost like the US partsking in the overthrowing of governments ends up having bad consequences

I am not surprised you and others believe that the Russians "didn't do anything" to help, support, arm and fund the separatists from 2014 and onwards.

The Separatists were just a robust fully industrialized and vertically integrated region capable of manufacturing, financing and undertaking a separatist movement on their own without an ounce of help from Russia.

 

[Racey]

I am not surprised you and others believe that the Russians "didn't do anything" to help, support, arm and fund the separatists from 2014 and onwards.

The Separatists were just a robust fully industrialized and vertically integrated region capable of manufacturing, financing and undertaking a separatist movement on their own without an ounce of help from Russia.

And was Kiev supported by the US with Manufacturing, Financing, etc in that same time period? Huh? well?

That response was directly in the context of your 'boots on the ground' rider.

 

[Racey]

Watching 530 spin himself out and start cheerleading for US world policing for corrupt countries at the cost of billions and billions is one of the most spectacular things i have seen in the dungeon

 

[530RL]

Watching 530 spin himself out and start cheerleading for US world policing for corrupt countries at the cost of billions and billions is one of the most spectacular things i have seen in the dungeon

My position on this matter is fully consistent with historic Reagan conservative values.

But I understand the MAGA party is more pro communism and authoritarianism.

 

[Racey]

My position on this matter is fully consistent with historic Reagan conservative values.

But I understand the MAGA party is more pro communism and authoritarianism.

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH is that your way of slipping into the bushes like Homer Simpson....

You won't answer the question because it will hurt your brain.

 

[530RL]

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH is that your way of slipping into the bushes like Homer Simpson....

You won't answer the question because it will hurt your brain.

I didn’t see a cogent question posed by you.

Quite frankly I haven’t seen a cogent thought since you hit your head and became a supporter of big government, crazy conspiracy theories, higher taxes and less liberty.

 

[regor]

My position on this matter is fully consistent with historic Reagan conservative values.

But I understand the MAGA party is more pro communism and authoritarianism.

MAGA pRo cOmMunISm aNd aUtHoRiTaRIAn....

Yore the best you corrupt money washing puta!!!!!