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Russia and Ukraine

monkeyswrench

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Saw some videos of the referendum voting...to be fair, I don't know who counts the votes...but there was some things that were simply amazing.
They checked a list for names of the voter. They even checked ID! It may have been to only let certain people vote I guess, but at least no dead people from other states.
 

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Congress Stuffs $12BN In Ukraine Aid Into Stopgap Funding Bill

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Total figure pledged to Ukraine now equals Russia’s entire annual military budget...

TUE SEP 27, AT 5:23 AM


confused glasses man .gif
 

530RL

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Honestly, I'm worried about it heating up. Greenhouse gas isn't measured in kilotons, but man made "global warming" is just a few minutes from reality.
If Russia quits fighting, the war is over. The Russians go back to Russia.

If Ukraine quits fighting, Ukraine is over with millions of civilians killed by crimes against humanity and genocide.

Seems pretty reasonable to bet that this is going to continue on for a while, after all the Ukranians have been left with little choice other than to die or fight.
 

monkeyswrench

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If Russia quits fighting, the war is over. The Russians go back to Russia.

If Ukraine quits fighting, Ukraine is over with millions of civilians killed by crimes against humanity and genocide.

Seems pretty reasonable to bet that this is going to continue on for a while, after all the Ukranians have been left with little choice other than to die or fight.
The two territories that voted to separate from Ukraine in 2014 would beg to differ...they were being killed by their own countrymen for the past 8 years. I think they'd rather go back to the old ways of communism, than the hip new Obama started Biden "democratic" ways. The other two areas are predominantly Russian greed, basically securing all the ports as their own.
What I find interesting, is the Russian pull back in the North, followed by the "Ukraine counter offensive". I can't see what the play is. I guess the UAF may be trying to sever supply lines to the south, makes tactical sense. The thing that confuses me is the major financial and industrial targets in the south aren't being pummeled at all. Those areas seem to be of higher value, and further away from both reinforcements and supplies.

Limited in the news, UAF shelled the hell out of Doneskt the first 2 days of their "voting"...no saying it was Russia this time, they just didn't mention it. The other thing I thought would be spun as a "protest" was a school shooting in Russia. I guess they didn't want to post that due to the swastika on the guys shirt, or the "fact" mass shootings only happen in the US.

I don't know, things are pretty sketchy right now. Russia and the US are blaming each other for the pipeline explosion...that happens the same day a non-Russian pipeline was brought online. Vladimir seems the type to take a selfie turning of the gas while flipping off the camera. Biden was looking around the other day for a statesman that has been dead for a month...I can't see him being any kind of "mastermind".
 

530RL

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The two territories that voted to separate from Ukraine in 2014 would beg to differ...they were being killed by their own countrymen for the past 8 years. I think they'd rather go back to the old ways of communism, than the hip new Obama started Biden "democratic" ways. The other two areas are predominantly Russian greed, basically securing all the ports as their own.
What I find interesting, is the Russian pull back in the North, followed by the "Ukraine counter offensive". I can't see what the play is. I guess the UAF may be trying to sever supply lines to the south, makes tactical sense. The thing that confuses me is the major financial and industrial targets in the south aren't being pummeled at all. Those areas seem to be of higher value, and further away from both reinforcements and supplies.

Limited in the news, UAF shelled the hell out of Doneskt the first 2 days of their "voting"...no saying it was Russia this time, they just didn't mention it. The other thing I thought would be spun as a "protest" was a school shooting in Russia. I guess they didn't want to post that due to the swastika on the guys shirt, or the "fact" mass shootings only happen in the US.

I don't know, things are pretty sketchy right now. Russia and the US are blaming each other for the pipeline explosion...that happens the same day a non-Russian pipeline was brought online. Vladimir seems the type to take a selfie turning of the gas while flipping off the camera. Biden was looking around the other day for a statesman that has been dead for a month...I can't see him being any kind of "mastermind".
You may be expecting too much from the current President and his supporters, a past President didn't even know that Frederick Douglas was dead and not one of his supporters had a problem with that! :oops:
 

monkeyswrench

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You may be expecting too much from the current President and his supporters, a past President didn't even know that Frederick Douglas was dead and not one of his supporters had a problem with that! :oops:
What comes to mind is this: "A jury of your peers"...fellow citizens.
The average person does not know history, and lacks the motivation to learn it on their own. Geopolitical events take place on the other side of the planet, and some fail to see how it effects us. Everything happening, from the war in Ukraine, to the current interest rates, has an effect on everyone. Certain aspects may harm some individuals more, but they all intersect. I was not a "Trumpkin"...but I would have voted for Daffy Duck over Biden. Both sides have some "special" supporters. Like has been said: Think of a person of "average" intelligence. Now think, half the population is dumber than that. Our current President, I believe, was a man of slightly above average intelligence. The problem is, his mental acuity has diminished. All child sniffing, kickback taking and lying aside, he is nothing more than a candidate for adult day care. In fact, I used to feel sorry for him. Now, after witnessing his fleecing of our country, escalation of violence abroad and abuse of power, I've come to understand his dementia is just a way he can start his sentence in hell before meeting his maker. Incredibly inept or even stupid, you'll make a right decision occasionally. The law of averages. One mus try exceptionally hard to always make a decision that is detrimental to your country's existence.
 

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The people that are OK with Joe Biden turning the USA communist
are against Russia turning the Ukraine communist.
Not surprising is the people that are OK with Russia turning Ukraine into another satellite of an autocratic dictator, were also OK with tearing up the US Constitution and installing an unelected autocrat here at home.
 

monkeyswrench

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Not surprising is the people that are OK with Russia turning Ukraine into another satellite of an autocratic dictator, were also OK with tearing up the US Constitution and installing an unelected autocrat here at home.
What's really surprising...Putin only wants half the sock puppet in which the US has made Ukraine.
We hear of Russia's evil "Oligarchs"...but here we call them "successful businessmen". This theater we have in DC is not much different...the politicians are made rich by the real power brokers, the money people. Anyone who doesn't see that is truly blind. Why else would a person spend millions to get elected to a job paying a 150-250k? It's not for the medical or retirement plans....
 

530RL

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What's really surprising...Putin only wants half the sock puppet in which the US has made Ukraine.
We hear of Russia's evil "Oligarchs"...but here we call them "successful businessmen". This theater we have in DC is not much different...the politicians are made rich by the real power brokers, the money people. Anyone who doesn't see that is truly blind. Why else would a person spend millions to get elected to a job paying a 150-250k? It's not for the medical or retirement plans....
If you believe that, then you believe that America is a failed experiment and this notion that our founding fathers had was flawed from inception. 🤔
 

Wedgy

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Not surprising is the people that are OK with Russia turning Ukraine into another satellite of an autocratic dictator, were also OK with tearing up the US Constitution and installing an unelected autocrat here at home.
Not so fast there Turbo. Didn't yo Mama ever tell you about the chicken or the egg?
 

Wedgy

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If you believe that, then you believe that America is a failed experiment and this notion that our founding fathers had was flawed from inception. 🤔
Rule #1. Pay attention to what is going on around you. Rule #2. CYA. Rule #3. See rule #1. Rules to live by.
Stay tuned Turbo. We all have a front row ticket to the show. Biden is the Manchurian Candidate Trojan Horse.
You said it yourself.
What is sorely needed is a really good Failure Analysis Engineer. Head off the Insane Clown Posse at the Pass. I know a good one. Legendary. But there is no way you're getting my Sister's number Bro.🤣
 

monkeyswrench

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If you believe that, then you believe that America is a failed experiment and this notion that our founding fathers had was flawed from inception. 🤔
I believe our experiment is failing right before our eyes. Corruption and greed drive the actions of the elected few, not the will of the people as prescribed by the founders.

The founders had the right idea, but the elected ones went from being part time members of governance, and full time citizens, to full time swindlers.

It is not a problem of left or right, it is a problem with the powers held by few, controlling the many.

I somewhat feel our own government wants to start a war with others, so one doesn't start within.
 

530RL

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I believe our experiment is failing right before our eyes. Corruption and greed drive the actions of the elected few, not the will of the people as prescribed by the founders.

The founders had the right idea, but the elected ones went from being part time members of governance, and full time citizens, to full time swindlers.

It is not a problem of left or right, it is a problem with the powers held by few, controlling the many.

I somewhat feel our own government wants to start a war with others, so one doesn't start within.
Going from citizen representatives to career politicians is certainly a valid point. But we the citizens elect them. There are term limits every time an election happens, yet the citizens vote for that which we have.

To your bigger point let me through in a conundrum. Those who some feel are on the take make more when things are going well and the citizens are happy with their lives. They lose elections and lose power when things are askew. So why would they want the chaos some feel they want. It may be in the interest of a few politicians, but not in the interest of the majority of politicians who want to remain in power. 🤔

Another possibility is that things ebb and flow like the tide. You loved the ones in power before but hate the ones in power now. Just as others had the opposite view.

The seasons come and go, but I think our system is clearly better than the rest and fighting within they system for what one wants is better than rolling a hand grenade down the aisle and ruining it for all.

Some should be careful for what they wish for when they wish for a civil war. It will not be civil and if you think there is corruption now, just wait for that which they wish for.
 
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monkeyswrench

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Going from citizen representatives to career politicians is certainly a valid point. But we the citizens elect them. There are term limits every time an election happens, yet the citizens vote for that which we have.

To your bigger point let me through in a conundrum. Those who some feel are on the take make more when things are going well and the citizens are happy with their lives. They lose elections and lose power when things are askew. So why would they want the chaos some feel they want. It may be in the interest of a few politicians, but not in the interest of the majority of politicians who want to remain in power. 🤔

Another possibility is that things ebb and flow like the tide. You loved the ones in power before but hate the ones in power now. Just as others had the opposite view.

The seasons come and go, but I think our system is clearly better than the rest and fighting within they system for what one wants is better than rolling a hand grenade down the aisle and ruining it for all.

Some should be careful for what they wish for when they wish for a civil war. It will not be civil and if you think there is corruption now, just wait for that which they wish for.
I think we have two very different vantage points from which we see the same issues. As such, we both arrived to our vistas by different paths I'd assume. Mine was littered with scars, broken bones and poor decisions, before turning a corner, and starting an ascent. I've gathered yours more of being investments, time and mental anguish more than physical abuse.
Your view is more suit and tie, whereas mine is more tank top and tattoos.

Now, there are other things to take into the equation...the resulting different views causes. I know you're a bit older than myself. In fact, I'm guessing, more or less, around 15+ years. That, by itself, may play quite a role. You may be looking at things differently. Mathematically speaking, you may be looking at hard assets and possible return on investments, figuring your payables and determining how many years you hope need to be paid for. Put simply, you're a lap ahead of me, but we all finish the race eventually.

You've mentioned you have no children. There will come a time when you won't care about the goings on of the country. You're sharp enough and well enough funded to have prepared for the worst case scenario for you to finish your days. This allows a certain amount of selfishness, or disregard for the well being of future generations. In reality, your investments, projects and developments are your dependents, your children. You watch them grow, and they bring you happiness. They are what you work for.
I have three children. They are what I work for. Them and my wife are my purpose, my driving force. If an investment of yours tanks, and you lose money, you regroup, and start anew. Having dealt with illness in a child, is nothing like watching the market. Where an investor will cut his losses, I'd have given everything, including my own life, to help the outcome.

God willing, my kids will be here long after you and I. The current mess we're in isn't just Biden or Trump or Obama. It goes back much further. I'm not a proponent of war, "civil" or otherwise. I've seen enough bloodshed already in life. As I posted in another thread, quite recently, I'm a pacifist with a history of violence. I just want to be left alone, and watch my kids grow into productive independent adults. War tends to put a damper on such simple dreams...and that's the direction in which we are being marched.
 

Wedgy

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Going from citizen representatives to career politicians is certainly a valid point. But we the citizens elect them. There are term limits every time an election happens, yet the citizens vote for that which we have.

To your bigger point let me through in a conundrum. Those who some feel are on the take make more when things are going well and the citizens are happy with their lives. They lose elections and lose power when things are askew. So why would they want the chaos some feel they want. It may be in the interest of a few politicians, but not in the interest of the majority of politicians who want to remain in power. 🤔

Another possibility is that things ebb and flow like the tide. You loved the ones in power before but hate the ones in power now. Just as others had the opposite view.

The seasons come and go, but I think our system is clearly better than the rest and fighting within they system for what one wants is better than rolling a hand grenade down the aisle and ruining it for all.

Some should be careful for what they wish for when they wish for a civil war. It will not be civil and if you think there is corruption now, just wait for that which they wish for.

Just when there seems to be a Hint of an Inkling of common decency, The flaming garbage that you come up with in that last sentence in the first paragraph of what could have been relevant, is truly a sight to behold.

I did a little Failure Analysis, This might be an issue. At least Tom thought so. Carl Peters' should've clarified, that. "One good Fucking, Immediately! Deserves Another."

"Because most of us have moral consciences formed well enough to stop us from acting on impulse. We are, as Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence, willing to suffer many abuses before pulling the trigger."
 

Wedgy

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I think we have two very different vantage points from which we see the same issues. As such, we both arrived to our vistas by different paths I'd assume. Mine was littered with scars, broken bones and poor decisions, before turning a corner, and starting an ascent. I've gathered yours more of being investments, time and mental anguish more than physical abuse.
Your view is more suit and tie, whereas mine is more tank top and tattoos.

Now, there are other things to take into the equation...the resulting different views causes. I know you're a bit older than myself. In fact, I'm guessing, more or less, around 15+ years. That, by itself, may play quite a role. You may be looking at things differently. Mathematically speaking, you may be looking at hard assets and possible return on investments, figuring your payables and determining how many years you hope need to be paid for. Put simply, you're a lap ahead of me, but we all finish the race eventually.

You've mentioned you have no children. There will come a time when you won't care about the goings on of the country. You're sharp enough and well enough funded to have prepared for the worst case scenario for you to finish your days. This allows a certain amount of selfishness, or disregard for the well being of future generations. In reality, your investments, projects and developments are your dependents, your children. You watch them grow, and they bring you happiness. They are what you work for.
I have three children. They are what I work for. Them and my wife are my purpose, my driving force. If an investment of yours tanks, and you lose money, you regroup, and start anew. Having dealt with illness in a child, is nothing like watching the market. Where an investor will cut his losses, I'd have given everything, including my own life, to help the outcome.

God willing, my kids will be here long after you and I. The current mess we're in isn't just Biden or Trump or Obama. It goes back much further. I'm not a proponent of war, "civil" or otherwise. I've seen enough bloodshed already in life. As I posted in another thread, quite recently, I'm a pacifist with a history of violence. I just want to be left alone, and watch my kids grow into productive independent adults. War tends to put a damper on such simple dreams...and that's the direction in which we are being marched.
People who did not grow up on the Street may think they are mo betta, but there is one thing which they can never ever buy, never ever have, to the extreme detriment of their so called, LMFAO, "Intelligence."
Street Smarts...!:D:D:D
 

monkeyswrench

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People who did not grow up on the Street may think they are mo betta, but there is one thing which they can never ever buy, never ever have, to the extreme detriment of their so called, LMFAO, "Intelligence."
Street Smarts...!:D:D:D
A person can buy books, a diploma or degree, but cannot buy experience.

Well, except in the case of prostitution...but that would be a different subject...or would it?
 

Wedgy

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A person can buy books, a diploma or degree, but cannot buy experience.

Well, except in the case of prostitution...but that would be a different subject...or would it?
In Honolulu it would. :D be a long running version, of current events. Ask a Sailor who picked wrong? :oops: and is willing to talk!
 

rcmike

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Honestly, I'm worried about it heating up. Greenhouse gas isn't measured in kilotons, but man made "global warming" is just a few minutes from reality.
With that little bubbler being over a kilometer across, it might just be measured in kilotons.. Remember there are 3 of them..
 

monkeyswrench

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With that little bubbler being over a kilometer across, it might just be measured in kilotons.. Remember there are 3 of them..
Measurement of gas by weight has never been my strength...like a car measuring air in grams per secondo_O
I can't remember the number I read yesterday, but the cubic feet of gas escaping was massive!
 

Wedgy

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From a pipeline not in use, with only residual gas escaping? Bullshit. Um, yeah. Maybe shut off the gas valve? What? They don't have any means to stop the flow? Riiigggght.
 

Wedgy

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The War Pigs must not remember LNG ships must cross oceans, or maybe think Russian submarines only carry ballistic missiles...
 

monkeyswrench

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From a pipeline not in use, with only residual gas escaping? Bullshit. Um, yeah. Maybe shut off the gas valve? What? They don't have any means to stop the flow? Riiigggght.
Looked up a rough guesstimate...a 56" diameter pipe has something like 97,000 cubic feet of volume per mile. It's also been said that they keep unused pipes under pressure to monitor for failures. I don't know how pressure effects the amount contained in the pipes, but at 570 miles, that's at least 5.5 million cubic feet of gas:oops:
Just what was lost in the pipe, would make a huge dent in supply.

Or the ability to understand how history will repeat itself.


Lindbergh was right. The problem was his speeches previous to that, and his feelings towards Germany. The spin machine of the day didn't have to try very hard to turn many against him.

Though the names and the players have changed, the war machine is still the same. "You're with us or you're against us" has been used many times, to many different degrees. History is not taught as it should be. Just yesterday I heard a fairly conservative radio host explain that the US would never attack a civilian target...the firebombing of Dresden comes to mind.

There are those that get wealthy by trading souls. There are even some soldiers that enjoy the fight. Most of society I think would rather not see the horrors of war. I'm not the hippy type, I'm usually up for a fight, but I have to have a good reason to do so.
 

530RL

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Looked up a rough guesstimate...a 56" diameter pipe has something like 97,000 cubic feet of volume per mile. It's also been said that they keep unused pipes under pressure to monitor for failures. I don't know how pressure effects the amount contained in the pipes, but at 570 miles, that's at least 5.5 million cubic feet of gas:oops:
Just what was lost in the pipe, would make a huge dent in supply.


Lindbergh was right. The problem was his speeches previous to that, and his feelings towards Germany. The spin machine of the day didn't have to try very hard to turn many against him.

Though the names and the players have changed, the war machine is still the same. "You're with us or you're against us" has been used many times, to many different degrees. History is not taught as it should be. Just yesterday I heard a fairly conservative radio host explain that the US would never attack a civilian target...the firebombing of Dresden comes to mind.

There are those that get wealthy by trading souls. There are even some soldiers that enjoy the fight. Most of society I think would rather not see the horrors of war. I'm not the hippy type, I'm usually up for a fight, but I have to have a good reason to do so.
Most MAGA supporters agree with you and believe Lindbergh and the America First party were correct as they now echo many of the economic and diplomatic views of the original America First party.

The notion that America would now be better off if we would have followed Lindbergh's beliefs and allowed Nazi Germany and Japan to conquer and split up all of Eurasia and the African continent is certainly an interesting notion. And I suspect given my age you can understand why my generation and the one before it believed Lindbergh could not have been more wrong.

Maybe if Trump wins in 24 he can let Russia roll back to the original post WWII USSR and we will see how that works out for continental Europe, the UK and ultimately the US? 🤷‍♂️
 

monkeyswrench

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Most MAGA supporters agree with you and believe Lindbergh and the America First party were correct as they now echo many of the economic and diplomatic views of the original America First party.

The notion that America would now be better off if we would have followed Lindbergh's beliefs and allowed Nazi Germany and Japan to conquer and split up all of Eurasia and the African continent is certainly an interesting notion. And I suspect given my age you can understand why my generation and the one before it believed Lindbergh could not have been more wrong.

Maybe if Trump wins in 24 he can let Russia roll back to the original post WWII USSR and we will see how that works out for continental Europe, the UK and ultimately the US? 🤷‍♂️
Sooo, you're saying that a government that lies to it's people, for the benefit of manufacturers, banks and other big businesses, is for the betterment of that government's people? Misleading the people, and taking actions to punish those of dissenting thoughts, would be more fascist or communist....one would think. Being lured towards war under false pretenses is being done for our own best interests? I should think not.

As for dividing Europe, why did Americans to have a say in the matters of the Sykes-Picot agreement? The land mass divided was huge, but yet no close proximity at all to us.
 

regor

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I see the system pig is shilling for American blood in the streets so he and his buddies can make more money!!! 🤣
 

530RL

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I see the system pig is shilling for American blood in the streets so he and his buddies can make more money!!! 🤣
Aren’t you the one constantly calling for tearing up the constitution, ending the republic and for civil war?

You rightfully are starting to sound nervous for that which you wish for. 🤔
 

regor

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Aren’t you the one constantly calling for tearing up the constitution, ending the republic and for civil war?

You rightfully are starting to sound nervous for that which you wish for. 🤔

Fucking war mongering shill, they all know you’re a liar. 🤣

Nervous of you and your tranny friends at the FBI, CIA, DOJ and every other corrupt agency in yore POS scumbag guberment? Not for a second, can’t wait to take some with me.

Check this out, others are getting it now also.


Fuck you lying a-holes, the world sees you.
 

Backlash

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Jeeezus these reporters are trying as hard as they can to muzzle this guy!! Reporters suck more than RD!! 😲
 

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For you Putnik fans:
Three decades ago, the newly independent country of Ukraine was briefly the third-largest nuclear power in the world.

Thousands of nuclear arms had been left on Ukrainian soil by Moscow after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. But in the years that followed, Ukraine made the decision to completely denuclearize.

In exchange, the U.S., and the U.K. would guarantee Ukraine's security in a 1994 agreement known as the Budapest Memorandum:
Click here:
 

monkeyswrench

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This quote was taken from the aforementioned Wikipedia article on the Budapest Memorandum.

"Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by the signatory of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind."

This was one of the guidelines set forth by the treaty. I don't know how long the US has been funneling money to Ukraine.

We know the Maiden Coup took place in January and early February of 2014. This is a fact by Wikipedia, and not refuted by others. Early March of 2014 was when the Russians took Crimea. This is also stated as fact via Wikipedia and generally agreed upon.

The coup succeeded in overthrowing an elected official that was Russian friendly. The US has admitted involvement. It just so happened that the new leader was pro-west...purely coincidence I'm sure.
 

Wedgy

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This quote was taken from the aforementioned Wikipedia article on the Budapest Memorandum.

"Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by the signatory of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind."

This was one of the guidelines set forth by the treaty. I don't know how long the US has been funneling money to Ukraine.

We know the Maiden Coup took place in January and early February of 2014. This is a fact by Wikipedia, and not refuted by others. Early March of 2014 was when the Russians took Crimea. This is also stated as fact via Wikipedia and generally agreed upon.

The coup succeeded in overthrowing an elected official that was Russian friendly. The US has admitted involvement. It just so happened that the new leader was pro-west...purely coincidence I'm sure.

Trumps warning to Germany comes true. Europe is in for a long cold winter. A 300% increase in energy costs if and when it is available. Turn's out Europe's only as smart as a 10th Grader. America, look at your Green Future.

War in Ukraine, perfect, no American boots on the ground. So was Vietnam, until it wasn't. Eisenhower was right, then JFK paid the price. Just more nation building, now JoeyBama nation building. CIC, WH, Cabinet, clueless.

Stolen Elections do have consequences...
 

monkeyswrench

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Biden stupidly said he'd " bring it to an end" regardless so of course everyone thinks we did it.

Not exactly a master strategist.
What worries me is if he's openly saying things like that, what is he not saying? Sadly, it could be he's just babbling and doesn't know what he's saying. Regardless, not what should be in charge.
 
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