Power Grid

[LargeOrangeFont]

Because thats goes against the green agenda.
Policy/Regulations are dictating broad use of Battery Energy Storage to meet the future needs.
But as far as I know, no one has ran the math, on exactly how much energy storage will be needed, and exactly what those costs are.
Most importantly, how it will impact the rate payers.

WHY… Because if they did, No one would vote for it, or the politician pushing for it.

They will do exactly what they have done with hi speed rail. They will just lie.

Never underestimate the CA voter to vote in taxes on themselves while the government uses children and the environment as a shield.

 

[hallett21]

Well, if you just look at the CA ISO peak load history, it gives you a pretty good idea of past peak loads.

Yes, LED had a huge impact in energy reduction.

But in the last 3ish years EVs have made a huge push. I know you’re aware

It’s like every other statistic, both sides are using the numbers that benefit their argument the most.

Pro EV will say their panels charge their vehicle and put zero load on the grid. Even though they probably charge in the dark.

Anti EV will say that these new cars are putting extreme pressure on the grid 24/7. When in reality they charge 2-3 times a week at off peak hours.

Edit. I don’t mean to say that there’s no issue. I have generator hook ups at the majority of all family and friends homes for a reason.

 

[hallett21]

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

But in the last 3ish years EVs have made a huge push. I know you’re aware

It’s like every other statistic, both sides are using the numbers that benefit their argument the most.

Pro EV will say their panels charge their vehicle and put zero load on the grid. Even though they probably charge in the dark.

Anti EV will say that these new cars are putting extreme pressure on the grid 24/7. When in reality they charge 2-3 times a week at off peak hours.

Still waiting for the explanation of where all those people that park on the streets or outside of a garage are gonna charge up their cars They have no solar option.

 

[hallett21]

Still waiting for the explanation of where all those people that park on the streets or outside of a garage are gonna charge up their cars They have no solar option.

No argument here lol. Specifically in LA and SF there’s a large amount of EVs being charged at work.

Which is part of fudging the numbers. The commercial building is just drawing “necessary power”.

The serfs are at work and should shut down their AC because they’re not home.

 

[Xring01]

But in the last 3ish years EVs have made a huge push. I know you’re aware

It’s like every other statistic, both sides are using the numbers that benefit their argument the most.

Pro EV will say their panels charge their vehicle and put zero load on the grid. Even though they probably charge in the dark.

Anti EV will say that these new cars are putting extreme pressure on the grid 24/7. When in reality they charge 2-3 times a week at off peak hours.

WHOA… Hold your horse’s there a bit, lets brake this down
Very few EV owners have a Solar Array large enough to run there house and charge there car. Why… we are talking about a boat load of energy to charge a Tesla… which means a boat load of roof space to handle all of those solar panels.

For example. A Tesla S90, has a 90 kW battery pack.
So to charge it in 9 hours if its was completely drained at a 9kw Solar Array running at 100% effiency (which is not possible), it would take 10 hours to fully charge that Tesla battery. Again this is theory, not reality.

So the next portion of the arguement could be, well the EV owner has Solar and a Energy Storage at home… Again, hold your horse’s a bit. I think the Telsa battery systems go to 16kWh and the Generac goes up to 36kWh… So you get can get a 30% charge on a Tesla S90 will a huge Generac 36kWh system… and you have to have a huge Solar Array to not only run that house, but to charge the BESS system during the 8hrs of decent sunlight….

(breaking down the size of the above solar array… 8 hours of good sunlight, and you need to charge a 36kWh battery… You would have to average 4.5kw solar array for 8 hours to fully charge the 36kWh battery. Then you also need to run the house hold loads… of say 4kw if your running a smaller A/C and lightly loaded house… So I am guessistimating a 12kw Solar Array with an ideal roof would be about the smallest you could do… Hope Basil Hayden looks at this and points out my mistakes)… I am sure I have a few.

See… that math doesnt quite add up, if you dig into the real numbers. Are there a few EV owners in a financial position to truly do this YES. But in my opinino they are a huge minority of the overall EV Owner population. Thats doesnt even get into the EV Owners who live in Apartments, Condos, or roofs not faciing the correct direction etc etc etc.

So, back to my redneck math… Vast Majority of EV Owners are charging from the grid, which is using all kinds of energy/pending the location they live in. On the West Coast… in peak daylight hours on peak days… say 20% renewable and the rest Nat Gas and a hint of Nuke… However when the ambient temps are low on the West Coast, CA ISO has ran at over 90% Renewables a few times. But thats extremely rare.

Hopefully that sheds some light, on the size of the systems to truly achieve the EV Charging goal.

 

[hallett21]

WHOA… Hold your horse’s there a bit, lets brake this down
Very few EV owners have a Solar Array large enough to run there house and charge there car. Why… we are talking about a boat load of energy to charge a Tesla… which means a boat load of roof space to handle all of those solar panels.

For example. A Tesla S90, has a 90 kW battery pack.
So to charge it in 9 hours if its was completely drained at a 9kw Solar Array running at 100% effiency (which is not possible), it would take 10 hours to fully charge that Tesla battery. Again this is theory, not reality.

So the next portion of the arguement could be, well the EV owner has Solar and a Energy Storage at home… Again, hold your horse’s a bit. I think the Telsa battery systems go to 16kWh and the Generac goes up to 36kWh… So you get can get a 30% charge on a Tesla S90 will a huge Generac 36kWh system… and you have to have a huge Solar Array to not only run that house, but to charge the BESS system during the 8hrs of decent sunlight….

(breaking down the size of the above solar array… 8 hours of good sunlight, and you need to charge a 36kWh battery… You would have to average 4.5kw solar array for 8 hours to fully charge the 36kWh battery. Then you also need to run the house hold loads… of say 4kw if your running a smaller A/C and lightly loaded house… So I am guessistimating a 12kw Solar Array with an ideal roof would be about the smallest you could do… Hope Basil Hayden looks at this and points out my mistakes)… I am sure I have a few.

See… that math doesnt quite add up, if you dig into the real numbers. Are there a few EV owners in a financial position to truly do this YES. But in my opinino they are a huge minority of the overall EV Owner population. Thats doesnt even get into the EV Owners who live in Apartments, Condos, or roofs not faciing the correct direction etc etc etc.

So, back to my redneck math… Vast Majority of EV Owners are charging from the grid, which is using all kinds of energy/pending the location they live in. On the West Coast… in peak daylight hours on peak days… say 20% renewable and the rest Nat Gas and a hint of Nuke… However when the ambient temps are low on the West Coast, CA ISO has ran at over 90% Renewables a few times. But thats extremely rare.

Hopefully that sheds some light, on the size of the systems to truly achieve the EV Charging goal.

The only issue is that your math only applies June to September. I’m in agreement with you.

October to May the grid certainly can handle the load.

I edited my post that you quoted. Friends and family are prepped.

 

[Christopher Lucero]

Hold your horse’s there a bit

EXACTLY.
Horses.
Remember when horses and draft animals were the way transport was done?
Remember why we decided that the enormous piles of dung accumulating from animals and humans caused inventors to come up with 'less polluting' forms of transport?

Recall that electric vehicles were the first to be offered as an alternative to animal motivated transport.
Recall that the Internal Combustion Engine was put into vehicles, rather than the messy and dangerous batteries of the day, and Henry Ford turned our world into a factory based, nine-to-5, standardized, CENTRALIZED - FACTORY - approach to business.

The Factory model of business is irresistible: scale and economy.

Lives changed forever. Less manure around. Less illness from polluted water supplies (when e-coli used to get into the water supply).

AT THAT TIME there were those who doubted that the automobile would replace the draft animal, since the capacity to charge batteries (electricity) was not widespread or to supply gasoline (at roadway stops) was - at that time - undeveloped.
BUT

It did get developed

WIDELY
and it came to dominate transportation
in the same way that draft animals dominated for centuries before the automobile came along.

 

[Singleton]

A lot of homes in Carlsbad don’t have AC. It’s not the IE where everyone has 1 if not 2. lol.

I don’t have AC, but I now own portable AC units that will be sucking power while working from home.

 

[TCHB]

Not replacing older AC’s by Friday. While I agree newer appliances and AC draw less power, it takes time to switch those out

It would be interesting to compare new AC units against the addition of EVs and now electric appliances and heaters. Basically take an annual audit of units replaced vs new electrical loads added to the grid.

LED lighting has made a large dent in demand. Except for the architectural stuff, tape light etc isn’t very efficient lol.

A new TV has also made a difference even when in the off mode.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

WHOA… Hold your horse’s there a bit, lets brake this down
Very few EV owners have a Solar Array large enough to run there house and charge there car. Why… we are talking about a boat load of energy to charge a Tesla… which means a boat load of roof space to handle all of those solar panels.

For example. A Tesla S90, has a 90 kW battery pack.
So to charge it in 9 hours if its was completely drained at a 9kw Solar Array running at 100% effiency (which is not possible), it would take 10 hours to fully charge that Tesla battery. Again this is theory, not reality.

So the next portion of the arguement could be, well the EV owner has Solar and a Energy Storage at home… Again, hold your horse’s a bit. I think the Telsa battery systems go to 16kWh and the Generac goes up to 36kWh… So you get can get a 30% charge on a Tesla S90 will a huge Generac 36kWh system… and you have to have a huge Solar Array to not only run that house, but to charge the BESS system during the 8hrs of decent sunlight….

(breaking down the size of the above solar array… 8 hours of good sunlight, and you need to charge a 36kWh battery… You would have to average 4.5kw solar array for 8 hours to fully charge the 36kWh battery. Then you also need to run the house hold loads… of say 4kw if your running a smaller A/C and lightly loaded house… So I am guessistimating a 12kw Solar Array with an ideal roof would be about the smallest you could do… Hope Basil Hayden looks at this and points out my mistakes)… I am sure I have a few.

See… that math doesnt quite add up, if you dig into the real numbers. Are there a few EV owners in a financial position to truly do this YES. But in my opinino they are a huge minority of the overall EV Owner population. Thats doesnt even get into the EV Owners who live in Apartments, Condos, or roofs not faciing the correct direction etc etc etc.

So, back to my redneck math… Vast Majority of EV Owners are charging from the grid, which is using all kinds of energy/pending the location they live in. On the West Coast… in peak daylight hours on peak days… say 20% renewable and the rest Nat Gas and a hint of Nuke… However when the ambient temps are low on the West Coast, CA ISO has ran at over 90% Renewables a few times. But thats extremely rare.

Hopefully that sheds some light, on the size of the systems to truly achieve the EV Charging goal.

In no world does it make any financial sense with current EV prices and current solar and home battery prices to spend $400k on luxury EVs, and the solar and battery infrastructure to charge them and power the house, along with the backup generator to power the house and charge the car.

As you said, that is why only the well off in OC, LA and San Francisco do it.

There are blocks of houses in Ladera Ranch that have done just that though .

 

[hallett21]

In no world does it make any financial sense with current EV prices and current solar and home battery prices to spend $400k on luxury EVs, and the solar and battery infrastructure to charge them and power the house, along with the backup generator to power the house and charge the car.

As you said, that is why only the well off in OC, LA and San Francisco do it.

There are blocks of houses in Ladera Ranch that have done just that though .

Unless…..it’s all built into the loan of a new build (car excluded).

20kw solar (huge imo). 80k
2 Tesla power walls 22k
22kw generator 12k.

These numbers are assuming home would be wide open with an electrical and plumbing contractor already onsite building the home.

Now it’s “only” $500 a month.

Edit: no rebates obviously

 

[TCHB]

In no world does it make any financial sense with current EV prices and current solar and home battery prices to spend $400k on luxury EVs, and the solar and battery infrastructure to charge them and power the house, along with the backup generator to power the house and charge the car.

As you said, that is why only the well off in OC, LA and San Francisco do it.

There are blocks of houses in Ladera Ranch that have done just that though .

It is like a boat! 100 gallons takes you a little over 100 miles. Build a RV garage for the boat that runs 55 hours a year. Buy the $100K truck to pull the boat 5 miles to the ramp. Yes it is fun!

 

[TCHB]

Grid today! Lots of people working to keep the lights on. http://www.caiso.com/todaysoutlook/pages/default.aspx

 

[Dan Lorenze]

Anti EV will say that these new cars are putting extreme pressure on the grid 24/7. When in reality they charge 2-3 times a week at off peak hours.

Very true, off peak 2-3 times a week scheduled to start charging at 9pm. I could totally make solar and batteries work if I wanted to. But my monthly electric bill averages around $230 sometimes it’s sub $200… And that’s for my house, car and pool. $230 isn’t killing me. So I’m not real interested in solar at this time.

 

[hallett21]

We’re doing it!!!

 

[TCHB]

We just the Nevada Energy text to reduce power including shut down pool pumps. Ok my pump going off at 5pm.

 

[SoCalDave]

Flex Alert just issued. Perfect as I just pulled up to the house, plugged in my car, set the TS to 70 and opened a beer!

 

[TCHB]

In the power houses a lot of ambient derates due to extreme hot dry air. Kind of like a race car. Can not make as much horsepower when Long Beach hits 108.

 

[hallett21]

Running on a lot of natural gas right now.

 

[SoCalDave]

Just got the call to shed our load again. Releasing 1.2mw back to the grid.

 

[hallett21]

Watching the NG vs renewable line throughout the day shows you where the real power is made

 

[Xring01]

Hannity and Tucker are roasting the shit out of Ca Energy Policys on Fox News tonight.
This will be huge ammo against Newsom if he runs for “Higher Office”…

 

[retaocleg]

it ia all fun and games to support "the current thing" and pay more, but what happens when they start turning your thermostat up, regardless of your want .......it is coming

22,000 Colorado Residents Prevented from Turning Up Air Conditioning during ‘Energy Emergency’

22,000 Coloradans were unable to adjust their thermostats on a sweltering summer day due to an "energy emergency."

news.yahoo.com

 

[just_floatin]

Power has been out in Lodi Ca since 4:30 pm. Expected to go back on at 9pm. Time to fire up the GAS generator and plug in the refrigerators.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567666243863474177

Newscum

 

[Racer56]

With all of the talk about ev charging adding load to the power grid, I'm surprised there isn't more talk about banning the use of natural gas.

The city of Santa Monica has banned natural gas for all new construction. I tear down house's with 200 amp services and natural gas and the new houses we build have 400 amp services and no natural gas. If the house has a pool and jacuzzi, it needs a 600 amp service. I haven't built a commercial job yet in Santa Monica with the new regulations, but I know they will have to double their service amperage also.

I don't know how the power companies are going to be able to accommodate all the new loads being added to the grid, when they are shutting down non renewable plants all over the state and not building new ones. SMH

 

[TCHB]

With all of the talk about ev charging adding load to the power grid, I'm surprised there isn't more talk about banning the use of natural gas.

The city of Santa Monica has banned natural gas for all new construction. I tear down house's with 200 amp services and natural gas and the new houses we build have 400 amp services and no natural gas. If the house has a pool and jacuzzi, it needs a 600 amp service. I haven't built a commercial job yet in Santa Monica with the new regulations, but I know they will have to double their service amperage also.

I don't know how the power companies are going to be able to accommodate all the new loads being added to the grid, when they are shutting down non renewable plants all over the state and not building new ones. SMH

If we actually go to 50% electric cars and 50% natural gas. We will have to add generation to the grid. I know of one site in Etiwanda that is perfect for over 1,000 MWs. It has the transmission lines and fuel.

 

[Dan Lorenze]

One thing I was wrong about is that if enough people used EV's and Hybrids it would bring the demand for gas down causing lower gas prices. But gas prices have only gone up. Very unfortunate situation

 

[Xring01]

One thing I was wrong about is that if enough people used EV's and Hybrids it would bring the demand for gas down causing lower gas prices. But gas prices have only gone up. Very unfortunate situation

People pushing a green agenda want to tax the shit out of gasoline and nat gas, so that the green option is less expensive. Forcing the consumer right where they want them.

In theory you are correct, in reality, good freaking luck, because you are fighting powerful political movement, which happens to be on a global scale.

 

[Xring01]

If we actually go to 50% electric cars and 50% natural gas. We will have to add generation to the grid. I know of one site in Etiwanda that is perfect for over 1,000 MWs. It has the transmission lines and fuel.

WHOA…
WHAT….

CA ISO, Newsom & Politicians had to beg and plead with Rate Payers to shed load over the last two days to keep the lights on. Most major news stations has hours of reporting on it last night. But whats not getting report are the number of people who had no electricity due to rolling blackouts and equipment failures.

The CEO of PG&E Patti Pope posted on Linked in a huge heart, around the load curve at peak load. Stating thank you to the rate payers for listening and dropping load.

Ca on has a 10% EV Adoption rate right now… Sorry brother. I disagree with your statements 100%.

The U.S. Grid (including CA ISO) must be designed/maintained to handle the highest load with the worst conditions expected with a safe margin. I would say 20% margin. Those who preach global warming, assume next year will be hotter than the previous year. Therefore if you truly believe next year will be hotter than last year, then 20% margin may not be enough. Probably needs to be higher. The bad news is the CA ISO practicallly has a zero margin. That is in todays world, not tomorrows world.

Especially when you factor in the removal of Nat Gas appliances to alot of larger commercial/industrial buildings in San Fran, LA, Santa Barbara and many other citys… that are forcing Electrify Everything agendas. BTW, I am helping a major Consulting Firm right now on the “SPECS” that some of these city’s will use in the removal Nat Gas and converting to Electricity. Some of these buildings have to have Generator backups, due to what they do. Guess what happens to the size of the Generators that back up these buildings when you remove all the Nat Gas… It gets alot larger, sometimes 2x or higher. Why, because the Electrical Load is doubling in these sites due to the removal of Nat Gas.

Please recall a post a made a few days ago with a link to
22Million people in the US are about to get their electricity shut off, because they cant afford the rates…

The problem with the Green Agenda is its trying to go from Zero Newables to 100% Renewables, overnight…
Its possible to achieve a much higher renewable energy to our grid, if you transition to these new technologys over time and plan it accordingly.. However thats not happening, pushing way to fast and not addressing the problems being created by pushing to fast.
Putting rate payers in very bad positions, jacking up the costs way to high, way to fast.

Bottom line, its a digital world today, and when average soccor mom starts worrying about her electricity bill or black outs, you will see a huge pushback on the current policys of the green agenda.


OWE… BTW The Etiwanda Power Plant…. I provided the GSU’s to that facility when it was originally built. Probably still have all the drawings and delivery inspection reports.

 

[Xring01]

Another emergency today…

edited…
In the last 2 minutes, two new energy alerts popped up from CA ISO..

 

[TCHB]

Looks like demand a little lower today and the rest of the week. We have had about 10 days of alerts this year. Next year we will have more battery plants coming into service and other generation. It takes 36 months to actually build a new 2 on 1 gas fired combined cycle plant on a existing retired site. We could have 5,000 MWs of new generation if allowed.

 

[Xring01]

Looks like demand a little lower today and the rest of the week. We have had about 10 days of alerts this year. Next year we will have more battery plants coming into service and other generation. It takes 36 months to actually build a new 2 on 1 gas fired combined cycle plant on a existing retired site. We could have 5,000 MWs of new generation if allowed.

Ok…
We saw peaks of 51,000mW ish, and practically had no reserves. Stating that because of all of the Emergency Load Reduction alerts, and Demand response programs…. That where required to keep the lights on.

If Ca gets additional 5000mW online before the summer of next year. That really doesnt even get you 10% margin.

To me that is still way low of a margin. Espcially considering the load will likely increase next year, with more EVs and more electric appliances retrofitting nat gas appliances.

So my prediction.. based on your prediction of 5000mW… DEJAVU… 2023 Summer will look alot like 2022.
Thats not factoring in that 2023 could be warmer summer than 2022.
Or major assett replacement programs.

 

[TCHB]

Demand response has worked Very well. People signed up for it and got a break on the Ebill. You could shut off my pool for days if needed.
You are acting like cost is not part of the equation. Yes you could have 30% reserves over peak but it would cost big. We have never had more than 10% reserves over peak in the past 45 years during extreme heat events. In 1977 we would call them no touch days. There is a balance of cost and reserves. The last thing you want is to build a plant for $1.8 billion and hit it down not needed for 349 days a year. Yes the public would pay for it for the entire life of the plant. If you have any time attend a ISO meeting on future generation. Very interesting. The transmission is more of a problem than generation.

 

[Xring01]

Demand response has worked Very well. People signed up for it and got a break on the Ebill. You could shut off my pool for days if needed.
You are acting like cost is not part of the equation. Yes you could have 30% reserves over peak but it would cost big. We have never had more than 10% reserves over peak in the past 45 years during extreme heat events. In 1977 we would call them no touch days. There is a balance of cost and reserves. The last thing you want is to build a plant for $1.8 billion and hit it down not needed for 349 days a year. Yes the public would pay for it for the entire life of the plant. If you have any time attend a ISO meeting on future generation. Very interesting. The transmission is more of a problem than generation.

Well, I know former PG&E Executives (Former VP of T&D) who would argue about their past reserves all day long. He is currently VP at Quanta.

Demand response works great, until the 3rd triggered event. SDGE reports a 40% drop out rate after the third DR event.

I 100% concur the transmission system is the biggest bottle neck. Especially when CAISO is trying to import over 30% on peak days.

 

[mesquito_creek]

The system works great… AZ importers to CA make bank on the EIM during these events, using coal, nukes and gas. The only time the system works better is when CA has to give away or pay for neighbor states to take excess solar.

 

[Xring01]

The system works great… AZ importers to CA make bank on the EIM during these events, using coal, nukes and gas. The only time the system works better is when CA has to give away or pay for neighbor states to take excess solar.

Can I get AYYY MEN… Pray to Jesus…
in my best Southern Babtist Preacher impression.

Preach On… tell us how you really feel… Praise Jesus…

AZ, NV, OR, Mexico… all support Ca ISO grid. Without them… FAILURE… I mean all of them… Lose any one of them, and failure.

Seriously, from a national security standpoint, considering the military bases on CA alone. Why is it a good strategy to import over 30% of your energy needs during peak summer months… Freaking seriously… Thats fucking stupid if you looking at it from a National Security perspective.

I am not talking about just the Generation aspect. I am talking about the Transmission Assets that are being run at over 100% to support that.

Hummmm national security… Major Naval Bases, Major Marine Bases, Major Airforce Bases, all relying on that grid. Yes they have backup power… but its backup that should never ever be used. If the systems are sized/built/maintained properly.

Dont even get me started on the condition of the Distribution Systems…

As an insider, I see so much wasted resources, so many mis guided regulations/policys.

The more I see, the worst it gets. Right now, just like I predicted in the 2007 house market crash… A non sustainable business model.
Politicians with agendas, trying to get re elected, keep passing policys/regulations that impact the rate payers.

But the rate payers are already maxed the fuck out, the system is getting less reliable, and the prices continue to increase, with no end in sight…

WHAT CAN GO WRONG… Yeah.. I am on my third bourbon tonight… Probably need to delete this post tomorrow.

 

[fishing fool]

Must be getting better out there. We are going 1X1 tonight at 1am

 

[monkeyswrench]

Is Cali pushing to get rid of all natural gas use? I'd heard no new builds, but what about existing things? I've been around commercial buildings with some pretty big boiler assemblies. I can't imagine the wattage required to replace a 4" gas line. The added load per high rise would be massive. New substations and lines I would think too.

 

[Christopher Lucero]

get rid of all natural gas use

yes.
but like anything. it will take a while.

(I am actually disappointed in myself... I still have a big water tank with hot water in it constantly being warmed when I could garage save space and monthly $$$ by installing PoU heaters....I just lack the resolve to install the 220/50 lines to the Points of Use.)

WHATEVER WE DO...it is our duty to ourselves and family to try to make our future as prosperous as possible with the least effort possible.

 

[SoCalDave]

So anyone else heard them on the radio recommending to lower your thermostat to 70f prior to 4pm to cool down your house then setting it to 78f or higher from 4-9pm?
Fuk that, if it hits 70f it's staying at 70f.

 

[monkeyswrench]

WHATEVER WE DO...it is our duty to ourselves and family to try to make our future as prosperous as possible with the least effort possible.

I agree, but I feel the actions are being taken without full preparedness. A lot of individual homes lack the infrastructure to make these moves. 200amp service panels are getting to be too small...so 400's are being installed...possibly even 600's? This is pure insanity. I know of two local auto shops, 6 bays, compressors, welders...the whole deal...they have 400amp service.

This tells me we need to make every appliance in a home more efficient, not make more electricity. Forcing the complete makeover of society is going to cause mass chaos. Government subsidies to remodel a home? Paid for by those fined for not doing so?

 

[Danger Dave]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568089333231489024

 

[caribbean20]

it ia all fun and games to support "the current thing" and pay more, but what happens when they start turning your thermostat up, regardless of your want .......it is coming

22,000 Colorado Residents Prevented from Turning Up Air Conditioning during ‘Energy Emergency’

22,000 Coloradans were unable to adjust their thermostats on a sweltering summer day due to an "energy emergency."

news.yahoo.com

Those dolts signed up for a special program ceding control of their thermostat to Xcel, in exchange for lower rates. Get what you pay for, nobody held a gun to their head. Now they start crying, pathetic, but not surprising.

I have a home in CO, have Xcel and ain’t nobody touching my thermostat other than ME!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Demand response has worked Very well. People signed up for it and got a break on the Ebill. You could shut off my pool for days if needed.
You are acting like cost is not part of the equation. Yes you could have 30% reserves over peak but it would cost big. We have never had more than 10% reserves over peak in the past 45 years during extreme heat events. In 1977 we would call them no touch days. There is a balance of cost and reserves. The last thing you want is to build a plant for $1.8 billion and hit it down not needed for 349 days a year. Yes the public would pay for it for the entire life of the plant. If you have any time attend a ISO meeting on future generation. Very interesting. The transmission is more of a problem than generation.

Considering CA taxpayers are paying for a $120B train from Modesto to Fresno, I think they can handle an extra $1.8B power plant or 2.

 

[yz450mm]

2001 Fermont MEP-804A 15kW Generator Set

15 kW, 120/208, 240/416 Volts 3 Phase, 120V Receptacles, Isuzu Engine, Fuel Tank

www.govplanet.com

 

[TCHB]

Considering CA taxpayers are paying for a $120B train from Modesto to Fresno, I think they can handle an extra $1.8B power plant or 2.

Just increase taxes by 5% that will cover it.

 

[TCHB]

Well, I know former PG&E Executives (Former VP of T&D) who would argue about their past reserves all day long. He is currently VP at Quanta.

Demand response works great, until the 3rd triggered event. SDGE reports a 40% drop out rate after the third DR event.

I 100% concur the transmission system is the biggest bottle neck. Especially when CAISO is trying to import over 30% on peak days.

i had dinner with the President a couple times. His biggest worry was not going BK with the fire litigation. Shareholders upset and the stock is still low low.

 

[retaocleg]

Those dolts signed up for a special program ceding control of their thermostat to Xcel, in exchange for lower rates. Get what you pay for, nobody held a gun to their head. Now they start crying, pathetic, but not surprising.

I have a home in CO, have Xcel and ain’t nobody touching my thermostat other than ME!

not yet..........give them the ability with consent will turn into ability without consent.......mark my words

 

[TCHB]

not yet..........give them the ability with consent will turn into ability without consent.......mark my words

No shut off 20% price increase. Just like the car pool lanes.