Parkland, Florida shooting

[DrunkenSailor]

Do they still do rotc programs in high schools? Can't the rotc officer be armed?

 

[t&y]

If the Military is going to be on campus, they need to be armed. Useless otherwise. If it is more along the lines of in the high schools trying to actively recruit kids to join, then I could see it being a good thing, but not a full time thing. But again, unless they are armed, they are useless in regards to aggressing an active shooter which needs to happen each and everytime. Kill that fucker and let him bleed out for a couple days. Maybe drag him behind the coroners van to the morge. No respect, and no name released to the news. On that note, skip the morge entirely and just drag him to the local dump.

Armory for the rifles at a school? Sure as long as it's staffed. Still waiting to hear how that is going to make them a bigger target. Simple answer is it won't, but oh well.

Trained Police Officers, not half ass security is what needs to happen. They need to be out of their cars walking the hallways, just like a foot patrol anywhere else. If there is a security detail on campus to back them up it's even better. Our ghetto schools have that now and it has worked thus far... crossing fingers it stays that way.

 

[SBMech]

The solutions are easy. Getting the liberal bitches who have taken over the educational system to agree to them and defend such decisions while under fire from parents who can't properly discipline their own children and are indoctrinated into this whole retarded PC/Diversity bullshit is another.

Simple answers, local PD patrols the schools like any other high risk area. We budget for them, hire more officers as needed.

Kids are safer, still not %100 since there will always be situations you cannot plan for, but much more safe than they are now, since the media driven frenzy about this shit only drives the bat shit crazy fucks to do this even more.

I'm with t&y with the no media coverage, make it a fucking law. Without fame, these little bitches who attack innocents, will have to find another venue to exploit.

 

[nuckingfuts]

Just for clarification, RD originally referred to a small armory in the center. That’s more than a kiosk.

Just for clarification, an armory is just a place for storing weapons. The size of the armory has nothing to do with it.

 

[t&y]

Just for clarification, an armory is just a place for storing weapons. The size of the armory has nothing to do with it.

I have an armory in everyone of pants pockets. Hasn't seem to be a draw for mass shooters yet

 

[RiverDave]

Just curious. Do they even have guns at recruitment centers? And if so what types of guns.

Edit...Found this link.

https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlik...li5why_cant_military_personnel_carry_guns_at/

Read it again Bobby.. we aren’t taking things in the traditional sense. We are taking something modifying it slightly as a concept. No recruitment centers aren’t armed as they sit.

With some specialized training though, small armory it could be effective.


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[530RL]

Something to consider is that these type of things, whether they be at a school, workplace or public event, is simply the culture of America today.

There are certainly things that can be done to minimize it, but as long as the culture we have today exists, you can not stop it from happening.

 

[Icky]

A small armory or a kiosk?

I have an armory in everyone of pants pockets. Hasn't seem to be a draw for mass shooters yet

 

[RodnJen]

If the Military is going to be on campus, they need to be armed. Useless otherwise. If it is more along the lines of in the high schools trying to actively recruit kids to join, then I could see it being a good thing, but not a full time thing. But again, unless they are armed, they are useless in regards to aggressing an active shooter which needs to happen each and everytime. Kill that fucker and let him bleed out for a couple days. Maybe drag him behind the coroners van to the morge. No respect, and no name released to the news. On that note, skip the morge entirely and just drag him to the local dump.

Armory for the rifles at a school? Sure as long as it's staffed. Still waiting to hear how that is going to make them a bigger target. Simple answer is it won't, but oh well.

Trained Police Officers, not half ass security is what needs to happen. They need to be out of their cars walking the hallways, just like a foot patrol anywhere else. If there is a security detail on campus to back them up it's even better. Our ghetto schools have that now and it has worked thus far... crossing fingers it stays that way.

Simple answer is it will. An armory is a resource that a lot of people would be interested in. Putting that in a school makes no sense. If we need to rotate trained officers then so be it. Putting that type of resource where 500 to 3,500 children are is asking for trouble.

 

[t&y]

Simple answer is it will. An armory is a resource that a lot of people would be interested in. Putting that in a school makes no sense. If we need to rotate trained officers then so be it. Putting that type of resource where 500 to 3,500 children are is asking for trouble.

Ohh I see. I thought maybe it would be a complex answer. But since you say it's a "simple" answer, it must be right...lol

 

[MSum661]

hmmmm. What would the Israelis do?

They absolutely do not F' around.
I believe the 2 times a shooter in that Country tried what happened in Florida last week, it did not end well for the shooter and it was over swiftly.

Their teachers all go through the mandatory IDF requirement so when they go on to become Teachers, they're already certified combat trained.
They take it extremely serious and no Fool comes out alive.

People from parts of our Country could never deal with this.......

 

[nuckingfuts]

A small armory or a kiosk?

Yes

 

[DrunkenSailor]

They absolutely do not F' around.
I believe the 2 times a shooter in that Country tried what happened in Florida last week, it did not end well for the shooter and it was over swiftly.

Their teachers all go through the mandatory IDF requirement so when they go on to become Teachers, they're already certified combat trained.
They take it extremely serious and no Fool comes out alive.

People from parts of our Country could never deal with this.......

View attachment 621786

View attachment 621788

These pictures are shocking and inspiring. I wish these were our teachers. Seeing the guy with the sidearm talking to that little girl is unreal and i have no doubt that he would put an immediate 3 in the chest of anyone who would seek to do her harm. Talking about arming teachers is one thing seeing it in action open carry is confidence inspiring. It screams don't fuck with these kids. Great post.

 

[WhatExit?]

 

[welldigger00]

Wow. That speaks volumes. Problem solved.


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[RodnJen]

A little realty check.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...-gun-policy-florida-tweet-1.5824374/1.5824374

"Unlike in the United States, where the right to bear arms is guaranteed in the Constitution’s Second Amendment, Israel’s department of public security considers gun ownership a privilege, not a right. With few exceptions, gun owners in Israel are limited to owning one pistol, and must undergo extensive mental and physical tests before they can receive a weapon. Those who have not served in the military or in a government volunteer agency must wait until age 27 to apply for a firearms license. Gun owners are limited to 50 rounds of ammunition per year. West Bank settlers can obtain permits to carry guns for security purposes."

 

[RiverDave]

A little realty check.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...-gun-policy-florida-tweet-1.5824374/1.5824374

"Unlike in the United States, where the right to bear arms is guaranteed in the Constitution’s Second Amendment, Israel’s department of public security considers gun ownership a privilege, not a right. With few exceptions, gun owners in Israel are limited to owning one pistol, and must undergo extensive mental and physical tests before they can receive a weapon. Those who have not served in the military or in a government volunteer agency must wait until age 27 to apply for a firearms license. Gun owners are limited to 50 rounds of ammunition per year. West Bank settlers can obtain permits to carry guns for security purposes."

And the point is?

 

[RiverDave]

Simple answer is it will. An armory is a resource that a lot of people would be interested in. Putting that in a school makes no sense. If we need to rotate trained officers then so be it. Putting that type of resource where 500 to 3,500 children are is asking for trouble.

I’ll put my gun safe on the 50 yard line of a stadium full of kids.. I’m not seeing the point?

 

[t&y]

A little realty check.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...-gun-policy-florida-tweet-1.5824374/1.5824374

"Unlike in the United States, where the right to bear arms is guaranteed in the Constitution’s Second Amendment, Israel’s department of public security considers gun ownership a privilege, not a right. With few exceptions, gun owners in Israel are limited to owning one pistol, and must undergo extensive mental and physical tests before they can receive a weapon. Those who have not served in the military or in a government volunteer agency must wait until age 27 to apply for a firearms license. Gun owners are limited to 50 rounds of ammunition per year. West Bank settlers can obtain permits to carry guns for security purposes."

That is interesting. I wonder what they do when ammo is needed for training if they are only allowed 50 rounds per year. I can shoot that in a couple minutes, and I would not consider that anywhere close to an extensive training session.

 

[t&y]

I’ll put my gun safe on the 50 yard line of a stadium full of kids.. I’m not seeing the point?

Lol Dave, he doens't have a point. If he did, it would be real easy to show examples of how many gun stores get robbed daily. You know, like when they are displaying hundreds of guns and ammo, all guarded by armed employee's

 

[RodnJen]

I’ll put my gun safe on the 50 yard line of a stadium full of kids.. I’m not seeing the point?

My point is this, it's not just a mental health issue. Yes we need to address mental health, as well as the virtually unlimited access to weapons and ammunition.

 

[RodnJen]

Lol Dave, he doens't have a point. If he did, it would be real easy to show examples of how many gun stores get robbed daily. You know, like when they are displaying hundreds of guns and ammo, all guarded by armed employee's

In case you were to full of yourself to look it up...

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/09/colorado-gun-store-smash-grab-burglaries/

http://wjla.com/news/local/atf-reports-increase-in-gun-store-robberies-nationwide-including-va-md

 

[Sandlord]

sounds like the Florida FBI may need new leadership.
Be careful if you plan on going to the upcoming Strawberry Music Festival.

When a mother found possible evidence on Twitter of a terror attack at the upcoming Strawberry Music Festival in Florida, she contacted the FBI to alert federal agents.

But the FBI — who has been excoriated for ignoring multiple public tips on the deadly Florida school shooter — dismissed her, saying they didn’t need her help or information. In fact, the FBI agent in the Tampa field office would not take any evidence from the woman or even her contact information.

That was four months ago. Now the popular music festival which will attract several hundred thousand people to Plant City, FL over its eleven-day run — is just days away, launching March 1.

more here:
https://truepundit.com/fbi-ignores-...aisley-reba-mcentire-earth-wind-fire-artists/

 

[RiverDave]

My point is this, it's not just a mental health issue. Yes we need to address mental health, as well as the virtually unlimited access to weapons and ammunition.

I’ll try this one more time.. We don’t get to pick when a bad guy shows up and does bad things. Let that sink in for a second. The tool they use is irrelevant.

I can take a super soaker out of my back yard, go down to a gas station fill it with fuel and burn a crowd of people to death in short order..

Your solution to that is to ban super soakers.. lol

The water toy isn’t the problem.

The method of damage is irrelevant. The solution to minimize casualties is the only thing that matters. There is always going to be bad people that do bad things.

Wrap your head around that idea for a second and then explain to me, why when something bad happens your solution is to focus on the tool, not actually solving the problem. Ask yourself if you were a bad person and wanted to do harm to people or especially kids.. do you think any of these solutions would have any effect on that process?

The answer in every instance is no.

 

[Go-Fly]

My point is this, it's not just a mental health issue. Yes we need to address mental health, as well as the virtually unlimited access to weapons and ammunition.

What number do you put on the split? I think mental health accounts for 99% of the problems we are having in our schools today. Soon it will be a drone at graduation with a bomb on it. Then what?

 

[Go-Fly]

streaming live on Facebook.

 

[RodnJen]

To use your logic, how many school shootings have occurred in 2018 resulting in death or injury? How many trucks, super soakers, machete attacks have there been on schools resulting in death or injury? What is the total carnage of each?

To ignore the role of a gun is disingenuous at best. It seems that on "enthusiast" websites the prevalence of a groupthink scenario takes over. There are so many people in one place telling each other exactly what they want to hear. Posting up a bullshit Israeli picture and trying to turn it into a narrative that validates a conclusion that you and many others have already drawn is sad and counterproductive to an actual solution.

 

[Go-Fly]

As we name call and sign hold to blame inanimate objects the facts will never change. You either fix the problem at its root cause or practice talking points until the next event.

 

[MSum661]

That is interesting. I wonder what they do when ammo is needed for training if they are only allowed 50 rounds per year. I can shoot that in a couple minutes, and I would not consider that anywhere close to an extensive training session.

They have access to Shooting Ranges that offer all types of training sessions, ammo, and different types of Firearms.
I guess they would prefer to keep their private personal investment in pristine condition at all times..lol.

http://www.caliber3range.com/Professional-Courses/Tactical-Weapons

 

[JDKRXW]

In case you were to full of yourself to look it up...

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/09/colorado-gun-store-smash-grab-burglaries/

http://wjla.com/news/local/atf-reports-increase-in-gun-store-robberies-nationwide-including-va-md

I have no horse in this race but.......In case you were too full of yourself to actually READ either one of those articles you linked to;

- They got almost all of the guns stolen in Denver back.
- There are 65,000 gun stores in the US. The number of guns actually stolen from these stores is MINISCULE. A quote from the article "In 2012, there were 12 robberies of licensed gun stores nationwide. In 2016, that figure rose to 33 - a staggering 175 percent increase." and burglaries going from 337 to 558?
Going from 12 to 33 is staggering.... when there are 65,000 stores???

You need to find better examples to make your case.

 

[Go-Fly]

They have access to Shooting Ranges that offer all types of training sessions, ammo, and different types of Firearms.
I guess they would prefer to keep their private personal investment in pristine condition at all times..lol.

http://www.caliber3range.com/Professional-Courses/Tactical-Weapons

When I was a range officer, we always had demo guns and all the ammo you could shoot. My carry guns only got 50 rounds a month through them to maintain muscle memory. Good times.

 

[t&y]

In case you were to full of yourself to look it up...

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/09/colorado-gun-store-smash-grab-burglaries/

http://wjla.com/news/local/atf-reports-increase-in-gun-store-robberies-nationwide-including-va-md

Well now that is just too funny. You might want to look up the difference betwen a Robbery and Burglary there bud.

 

[stevesdcb]

Not the only factor but one of them is the violent video games. A lot of young, impressionable kids are honing their killing skills every day, for hours on end. Their minds are still developing & they get sucked into the powerful high of playing. Its an epidemic! These games are so realistic! Kids playing learn all kinds of different weapon systems, how to shoot accurately & are given rewards for the number of kills they inflict. Over the period of time, (years) the compound effect occurs, some kids can & will associate themselves so much with the video game world they totally loose touch with reality.

I agree with Go-Fly, getting to the root of the problem is how you fix things. Kids should not be playing these games, what positive comes from it? Parents need to be parents, not the kids best friend or using the video game as a babysitter.

 

[t&y]

They have access to Shooting Ranges that offer all types of training sessions, ammo, and different types of Firearms.
I guess they would prefer to keep their private personal investment in pristine condition at all times..lol.

http://www.caliber3range.com/Professional-Courses/Tactical-Weapons

So I'm assuming they are allowed to possess only 50 rounds in their homes, but have access to as much as they want at the ranges. Personaly, I prefer to shoot my own crap unless I'm trying something prior to purchase. Learned a long time ago it's best to train with what you use daily, instead of someone elses crap. Same reason I wear my standard duty gear to training instead of nice comfortable clothing that I'm not allowed to wear on duty. People look at like I'm crazy.. lol

 

[Bobby V]

Well now that is just too funny. You might want to look up the difference betwen a Robbery and Burglary there bud.

Ok. Whats the difference between R & B?

 

[t&y]

When I was a range officer, we always had demo guns and all the ammo you could shoot. My carry guns only got 50 rounds a month through them to maintain muscle memory. Good times.

I get that, but that is not the standard for your average citizen out there trying to be proficient at using a gun/rifle for self defense. Most of the public ranges I go to get all scarred when I suggest that I want to move and shoot at the same time lol. Weekday shooting is the best, generally get a whole lane to myself.

 

[t&y]

Ok. Whats the difference between R & B?

Right from the article he posted. Pretty much blows his theory out of the water...

"For context, a burglary involves the act of breaking and entering a building with the intent of committing a crime. A robbery, however, must involve the act of threatening a human being in attempt to obtain a material possession. Because many gun shop employees "pack heat", most criminals prefer to break into gun stores overnight."

Gee, I wonder why the majority of time those criminals chose to go there when nobody armed is there protecting the goods... Hmmmmmmm?

 

[RodnJen]

I get that, but that is not the standard for your average citizen out there trying to be proficient at using a gun/rifle for self defense. Most of the public ranges I go to get all scarred when I suggest that I want to move and shoot at the same time lol. Weekday shooting is the best, generally get a whole lane to myself.

I feel the same about weekday boating and weekday golf.

 

[DaveC]

Its not the difference between Robbery and Burglary but it was that his original point was ignored.

He said how many guns stores are robbed, as in a robbery which occurs while the store is open and an armed owner is behind the counter which is a deterrent.

As opposed to a burglary which occurs when the store is closed when NO one is around therefore there is no deterrent.

A deterrent prevents the robbery from happening but not the burglary. The articles mention burglary.

Ok. Whats the difference between R & B?

 

[DaveC]

So here we go again. Now it sounds like the Florida shooter, based upon contact with authorities should have been deemed mentally incompetent or was at least misclassified.

We have laws on the books already that classifies mentally incompetent, drug abusers, felons and those convicted of domestic violence as prohibited persons and therefore unable to legally purchase a firearm.

So we have another shooting by a prohibited person who shouldn't have a gun in the first place. Then the left calls for more gun bans for all citizens.

The required background checks failed!! Again!!

Why don't we worry about keeping guns out of the hands of those that are already prohibited from getting one. Enforce the laws on the books. Beef up enforcement and fix background checks first.

How come us law abiding citizens get punished every time a prohibited person causes violence like this incident where the shooter was a prohibited person.

The system failed just liked it did in Sandy Hook, Pulse nightclub, San Bernadino, the Texas church, etc.

 

[spectra3279]

To use your logic, how many school shootings have occurred in 2018 resulting in death or injury? How many trucks, super soakers, machete attacks have there been on schools resulting in death or injury? What is the total carnage of each?

To ignore the role of a gun is disingenuous at best. It seems that on "enthusiast" websites the prevalence of a groupthink scenario takes over. There are so many people in one place telling each other exactly what they want to hear. Posting up a bullshit Israeli picture and trying to turn it into a narrative that validates a conclusion that you and many others have already drawn is sad and counterproductive to an actual solution.

The whole point of a criminal is breaking the law. Doesn't matter what law. Do you really think someone who is a criminal and lack of a better word, whole job is to break the law, will follow the laws that says he can't break the law.

Some bent on killing will find a way to kill, machete, baseball bat, knife, gun, truck, bomb. The tool he uses is completely irrelevant. He will kill with whatever he can and will get.

Think this through and then apply it to killing.

Locks only keep honest people honest. Gun laws only keep honest people honest which leaves them unprotected from the not honest.

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[wzuber]

The whole point of a criminal is breaking the law. Doesn't matter what law. Do you really think someone who is a criminal and lack of a better word, whole job is to break the law, will follow the laws that says he can't break the law.

Some bent on killing will find a way to kill, machete, baseball bat, knife, gun, truck, bomb. The tool he uses is completely irrelevant. He will kill with whatever he can and will get.

Think this through and then apply it to killing.

Locks only keep honest people honest. Gun laws only keep honest people honest which leaves them unprotected from the not honest.

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but..but..but..it's the guns fault. The gun took the uber ride to the school. the gun placed the ammo loaded back pack on the school grounds days prior. the gun pulled the fire alarm, aimed and pulled the trigger. How many times do you have to be told??? FOR THE LAST TIME....IT'S THE GUNS FAULT!! GET IT????

 

[Go-Fly]

When a tragedy happens, blame has to be placed.

but..but..but..it's the guns fault. The gun took the uber ride to the school. the gun placed the ammo loaded back pack on the school grounds days prior. the gun pulled the fire alarm, aimed and pulled the trigger. How many times do you have to be told??? FOR THE LAST TIME....IT'S THE GUNS FAULT!! GET IT????

You have to blame the gun, it's the only bang for the buck. There was a line in the movie Jaws " You yell barracuda, everybody says, "Huh? What?" You yell shark, we've got a panic on our hands on the 4th of July". When Kip Kinkle shot up Thurston High, the whole school knew it was coming, the staff knew it was coming, admin knew it was coming, most people down town knew it was coming, the FD was practicing where to set up their command post when it happened, the police worked out which streets to close off when it happened and all of them knew who was going to do it, Kip Kinkle. He wasn't under the radar, no one could claim they didn't know, it was so in your face that this kid had slipped a cog that a blind man could see it. Yet everyone that got in front of a microphone said "how did this happen". Lets pass more laws and take the style of gun used off the market and make no gun zones. That gives a talking point that is still going on today, 20 years later. Fixing Kip had no rewards, it was not money well spent and if someone takes on that task as a Government employee they will be held liable when it goes wrong, as they knew it would. Why would anyone do that. No one painted a sign that said you knew and did nothing. Ask any teacher in a school system, they will point out the problem child with a long list of troubling details. Trump is going to bring this problem to the top and make people talk about it. The push back will be extreme. It's more fun to dog pile the NRA then to talk about mental health. There will be more laws passed on back ground check, wait time and AR15 sales will increase, nothing will change. Again people will get in front of the mic and talk about the good they are doing and nothing will change. It's sad that everyone in the education system knows what needs to be done but, politics over-rides actions.

 

[CarolynandBob]

Wow. Liberals are just plain stupid and you can't fix stupid.

RD the problem with recruiting centers in schools is that there are so many schools. I haven't looked it up, but there are probably only 10 or so recruiting offices for a decent size city.

I think the best option is hiring more police officers to patrol the school. Have one in every school that walks around. I also think that this would help kids see that cops are good and not the liberal bullshit that cops are bad.

 

[WhatExit?]

Interesting to see this ABC survey:

77% say mental health screening could have prevented
585 say stricter gun control could have prevented
42% say teachers carrying guns could have prevented

 

[500bbc]

My point is this, it's not just a mental health issue. Yes we need to address mental health, as well as the virtually unlimited access to weapons and ammunition.

Why?

Fifty years ago when per capita gun ownership was higher and kids carried guns in their vehicles to school frequently we didn't have this problem.


What's changed? I know, but you'll never admit it.

 

[wsuwrhr]

Logic has no purpose here.

Are you new?

Brian

So here we go again. Now it sounds like the Florida shooter, based upon contact with authorities should have been deemed mentally incompetent or was at least misclassified.

We have laws on the books already that classifies mentally incompetent, drug abusers, felons and those convicted of domestic violence as prohibited persons and therefore unable to legally purchase a firearm.

So we have another shooting by a prohibited person who shouldn't have a gun in the first place. Then the left calls for more gun bans for all citizens.

The required background checks failed!! Again!!

Why don't we worry about keeping guns out of the hands of those that are already prohibited from getting one. Enforce the laws on the books. Beef up enforcement and fix background checks first.

How come us law abiding citizens get punished every time a prohibited person causes violence like this incident where the shooter was a prohibited person.

The system failed just liked it did in Sandy Hook, Pulse nightclub, San Bernadino, the Texas church, etc.

 

[Cdog]

 

[RodnJen]

Why?

Fifty years ago when per capita gun ownership was higher and kids carried guns in their vehicles to school frequently we didn't have this problem.


What's changed? I know, but you'll never admit it.

Please, don’t keep us in suspense.

 

[nowski]

Fifty years ago when per capita gun ownership was higher and kids carried guns in their vehicles to school frequently we didn't have this problem.


What's changed? I know, but you'll never admit it.

Coincidence maybe but these facts do speak for themselves...

On June 25, 1962, the United States Supreme Court decided in Engel v. Vitale that a prayer approved by the New York Board of Regents for use in schools violated the First Amendment because it represented establishment of religion. In 1963, in Abington School District v. Schempp, the court decided against Bible readings in public schools along the same lines.

Since 1963, Jeynes said there have been five negative developments in the nation’s public schools:

• Academic achievement has plummeted, including SAT scores.

• Increased rate of out-of-wedlock births

• Increase in illegal drug use

• Increase in juvenile crime

• Deterioration of school behavior

“So we need to realize that these actions do have consequences,” said Jeynes, professor at California State College in Long Beach and senior fellow at the Witherspoon Institute in Princeton, N.J., “When we remove that moral fiber -- that moral emphasis – this is what can result.”

Other facts included a comparison between the top five complaints of teachers from 1940-1962 -- talking, chewing gum, making noise, running in the halls and getting out of turn in line – to rape, robbery, assault, burglary and arson from 1963 to present.