Maverick R

[77charger]

Don’t care if that suspension is an improvement or not. It’s just fuckin ugly looking and looks like a problem sticking out like that.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Can Am told me this car will fit 35's when I asked online during the reveal.

It looks like it will. The tires might rub the upright here and there.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Race regs for UTVs are 77” wide. They likely wont be any wider because that impacts the ability to haul them around in toyhaulers.

The geometry is the geometry. If the car is 77” wide or scaled up to 90” wide, they would have made it like that.

I get why they are less than 77....but if they are gonna keep trying to increase usable wheel travel they've hit the limit of that width.

If there was room for longer arms you wouldn't need this BS. Theyre trying to cram as much travel as they can into a limited width, and they have reached the limit. Speed went with full-negative offset wheels and made it all fit within the rim, to get the longest arms possible to try and retain proper geometry when it cycles with minimal scrub. Can-Am went the opposite, and put the upper arm above the tire to get the added arm length. Pretty goofy....

 

[Sharky]

Driver & passenger are going to take a dirt / mud bath every time they go out in it with the front tires sticking that far outside.

Gonna need one hell of an aftermarket front fender(s)


Try driving that thing down a trail that cows also use. Your going to be covered in cow shit.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I get why they are less than 77....but if they are gonna keep trying to increase usable wheel travel they've hit the limit of that width.

If there was room for longer arms you wouldn't need this BS. Theyre trying to cram as much travel as they can into a limited width, and they have reached the limit. Speed went with full-negative offset wheels and made it all fit within the rim, to get the longest arms possible to try and retain proper geometry when it cycles with minimal scrub. Can-Am went the opposite, and put the upper arm above the tire to get the added arm length. Pretty goofy....

If the car was 90” wide they would do the same thing to maximize the geometry. All 3 have put the longest arms in the cars they can.

Can Am did both actually.. negative offset wheels and relocated upper arm to avoid patent issues and limit scrub. It may have the best front end.

My opinion is Polaris is behind again from a suspension perspective. Speed and Can Am will both drive better than a Polaris.. but we will see.

 

[counterpart7]

I get why they are less than 77....but if they are gonna keep trying to increase usable wheel travel they've hit the limit of that width.

If there was room for longer arms you wouldn't need this BS. Theyre trying to cram as much travel as they can into a limited width, and they have reached the limit. Speed went with full-negative offset wheels and made it all fit within the rim, to get the longest arms possible to try and retain proper geometry when it cycles with minimal scrub. Can-Am went the opposite, and put the upper arm above the tire to get the added arm length. Pretty goofy....

It’s all a numbers game. More travel on the spec sheet = more sales. Anyone that’s been in a real offroad car/truck should understand that more travel doesn’t mean shit. There’s trucks with 15” of travel that handle better than a lot of trucks with 20”+.

The Speed has less travel than all if it’s competition but handles the best.

But if Billy Bob and his wife are at Berts trying to buy their first sxs, seeing 26” on this or a Pro R will be a big deciding factor over the Speed with 21” or whatever it is.

 

[Bigbore500r]

If the car was 90” wide they would do the same thing to maximize the travel. All 3 have put the longest arms in the cars they can.

Can Am did both actually.. negative offset wheels and relocated upper arm to avoid patent issues and limit scrub. It may have the best front end.

My opinion is Polaris is behind again from a suspension perspective. Speed and Can Am will both drive better than a Polaris.. but we will see.

You said the key word as to why this might have gone full canned-ham - Patent Issues. That would make some sense as to why they didnt go the same route as Speed to keep the spindle within the rim.
It may drive good and work on paper, but man its ugly and is gonna create alot of other issues with mud and debris, not to mention limiting wheel and tire setups. Did I mention its ugly?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

It’s all a numbers game. More travel on the spec sheet = more sales. Anyone that’s been in a real offroad car/truck should understand that more travel doesn’t mean shit. There’s trucks with 15” of travel that handle better than a lot of trucks with 20”+.

The Speed has less travel than all if it’s competition but handles the best.

But if Billy Bob and his wife are at Berts trying to buy their first sxs, seeing 26” on this or a Pro R will be a big deciding factor over the Speed with 21” or whatever it is.

That and Polaris numbers are total BS as they use tire deflection as suspension travel. Can Am plays that game to an extent.

Speed does not at all.

The good news is that the manufacturers are not just chasing travel. They are actually making the suspensions work.

 

[counterpart7]

That and Polaris numbers are total BS as they use tire deflection as suspension travel. Can Am plays that game to an extent.

Speed does not at all.

The good news is that the manufacturers are not just chasing travel. They are actually making the suspensions work.

True. I’m glad there is competition and they’re making them handle better.

Surprised how laid over the shock is on this front end setup(more than the x3). As far as making the suspension work correctly, that seems like a negative to me.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You said the key word as to why this is happening - Patent Issues. That would make some sense, because other than that those arms and spindles are ridiculous lol.
It may drive good, but man its ugly and is gonna create alot of other issues with mud and debris, not to mention limiting wheel and tire setups. Did I mention its ugly?

Sometimes what works best does not look the best, or work well in the real world. This might be a case like that.

Regardless of how it looks or holds up, that might be the best front end on paper.

If Can Am is deemed the “best”.. all the guys that drive to the bunker bar at 20 MPH will buy it, to have the best even if it had a red clown nose on it. And those guys will never break it, and it will ride plush.

 

[Bigbore500r]

It’s all a numbers game. More travel on the spec sheet = more sales. Anyone that’s been in a real offroad car/truck should understand that more travel doesn’t mean shit. There’s trucks with 15” of travel that handle better than a lot of trucks with 20”+.

The Speed has less travel than all if it’s competition but handles the best.

But if Billy Bob and his wife are at Berts trying to buy their first sxs, seeing 26” on this or a Pro R will be a big deciding factor over the Speed with 21” or whatever it is.

Polaris used to measure travel from max-droop to max compression, without accounting for the chassis bottoming out on the ground. 21" = 17" by normal measurements. Billy Bob don't understand, he just signs and drives with a grin and a load of accessories

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Polaris used to measure travel from max-droop to max compression, without accounting for the chassis bottoming out on the ground. 21" = 17" by normal measurements. Billy Bob don't understand, he just signs and drives with a grin and a load of accessories

Now they add tire compression to the number as well, so the car can sit 3” deep in a hole after you’ve ripped the skid plate off of it.

 

[counterpart7]

Polaris used to measure travel from max-droop to max compression, without accounting for the chassis bottoming out on the ground. 21" = 17" by normal measurements. Billy Bob don't understand, he just signs and drives with a grin and a load of accessories

Yep! Bunch of bull shit!

 

[Allwaysbroken]

I do believe the suspension is only on the r x model along with the transmission.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I do believe the suspension is only on the r x model along with the transmission.

Yes it is just this model.

They are still offering the X3. They will now offer the X3 RC in a 4 seater model. About time!! That is pretty cool.

 

[Bigbore500r]

 

[HotRod82]

I saw the price tag and stopped reading….

 

[DarkJuJu]

As always, KOH will be the crucible, for all factory sxs's.

 

[RiverDave]

As always, KOH will be the crucible, for all factory sxs's.

I Just can’t imagine those pivot points being exposed like that, that it would survive koh?

 

[TPC]

Dealers are asking $55K and getting it for the Pro R last we rolled thru the showroom.
Some reports of engine issue with the early ones,, dunno much more about that. Could be owner induced.

BTW. I know its seasonal but they are over flowing with SXS's and starting to see mark ups fade away.
Wife and her GF's wants the new Honda 150 Dual Sport. Dealers are marking them up double as in 100% over MSRP + non legit fees and they are languishing on their floor... Pricing shenanigans are still there.

Goofy pricing market right at the moment.

We'll wait on the new Can Am and see how reliable they are. I like it, no question its a step forward. This is gunna be interesting and that suspension has to be amazing or it could kill interest and it'll be an odd duck.

 

[27Daytona]

It appears the main suspension parts are hydroformed steel. Is that a new thing?

Hydroforming has been around for approximately 80 years. It’s used a lot in aerospace to form parts in high pressure tanks with H20 or Glycol.

 

[TPC]

Hydroforming has been around for approximately 80 years. It’s used a lot in aerospace to form parts in high pressure tanks with H20 or Glycol.

Isn't that how Musk builds Tesla chassis and it was a revolutionary MFG step forward?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Isn't that how Musk builds Tesla chassis and it was a revolutionary MFG step forward?

No. That is "Giga press" - high pressure castings.

Cars and trucks have been using hydroformed chassis and components for over 20 years.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

I Just can’t imagine those pivot points being exposed like that, that it would survive koh?

Portal boxes and 37s.

I think they could damage that arm pretty easily at the Hammers. My first thought was that this model is not for the trail guys in the south as that is going to get all jammed up with that sticky mud.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Portal boxes and 37s.

I think they could damage that arm pretty easily at the Hammers. My first thought was that this model is not for the trail guys in the south as that is going to get all jammed up with that sticky mud.

This is a desert car for sure.

I don't think this car will break any easier than anything else... especially after the aftermarket starts in on it.

However when it does brake, its going to break a lot more parts that cost a lot more.

 

[DarkJuJu]

I Just can’t imagine those pivot points being exposed like that, that it would survive koh?

I don't know but the lower A arms look much beefier but my concern would be this area in racing/rocks. It certainly is a strange looking apparatus. I wonder what the chances are of getting sharp rocks into the sidewall, between that "knuckle" and the tire if chasing close to take someone over

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I don't know but the lower A arms look much beefier but my concern would be this area in racing/rocks. It certainly is a strange looking apparatus. I wonder what the chances are of getting sharp rocks into the sidewall, between that "knuckle" and the tire if chasing close to take someone over

View attachment 1267587

I don't know but the lower A arms look much beefier but my concern would be this area in racing/rocks. It certainly is a strange looking apparatus. I wonder what the chances are of getting sharp rocks into the sidewall, between that "knuckle" and the tire if chasing close to take someone over

View attachment 1267587

That looks like a pivot ball.. which would be cool instead of a ball joint. But I can’t tell for sure.

I agree.. people are gonna cut front tires if they follow their friends too close .

 

[Sharky]

Isn't that how Musk builds Tesla chassis and it was a revolutionary MFG step forward?

Chrysler was doing it back in the 90's.

The C5 Corvette was the first time it had been used by GM to make the Corvette frame. That was in the 90's

 

[DWC]

If Can Am is deemed the “best”.. all the guys that drive to the bunker bar at 20 MPH will buy it, to have the best even if it had a red clown nose on it. And those guys will never break it, and it will ride plush.

I feel like this is directed at me.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

I don't know but the lower A arms look much beefier but my concern would be this area in racing/rocks. It certainly is a strange looking apparatus. I wonder what the chances are of getting sharp rocks into the sidewall, between that "knuckle" and the tire if chasing close to take someone over

View attachment 1267587

Flat tires could be interesting.

Engineers sometimes tend to solve the problem put in front of them and not think about the problems they are creating. I'll reserve judgment, but this solution looks narrowly focused on a specific application. Desert racing.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I feel like this is directed at me.

not at all.

There are better ways to spend $60k to go 20 MPH to Bunker Bar.

Saw this yesterday.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Flat tires could be interesting.

Engineers sometimes tend to solve the problem put in front of them and not think about the problems they are creating. I'll reserve judgment, but this solution looks narrowly focused on a specific application. Desert racing.

People are already 3D printing Maverick R front upright rock deflectors

 

[HB2Havasu]

Could somebody clue me in on how that suspension is going to keep rocks from getting wedged between the tires & arms and the whole thing not imploding? Think I'll stick with a negative camber SxS suspension. This design might go down as the Ford Edsel of the SxS World, lol.

 

[Racey]

I just don’t see that suspension living.. but who knows sometimes in engineering the way things look doesn’t matter to the way things are?

Either way I think the value of pro r’s and speeds just went up.

View attachment 1267387 View attachment 1267388 View attachment 1267389 View attachment 1267390 View attachment 1267391 View attachment 1267392 View attachment 1267393 View attachment 1267394 View attachment 1267397 View attachment 1267398 View attachment 1267400 View attachment 1267401 View attachment 1267403 View attachment 1267404 View attachment 1267405 View attachment 1267407

By raising the upper ball joint way up you are using leverage to take a huge amount of load off the upper control arm and upper control arm mounts.

To me it looks like the reason It had to be moved outboard to keep the arm long enough to maintain proper upper control arm swing geometry, Basically makes the upper control arm longer so that it's pivot angle decreases dramatically, keeping wheel camber where they want.

Will be interesting to see how it ends up holding up in all the circumstances of real world abuse that don't make it into stress analysis programs.

 

[rivermobster]

By raising the upper ball joint way up you are using leverage to take a huge amount of load off the upper control arm and upper control arm mounts.

To me it looks like the reason It had to be moved outboard to keep the arm long enough to maintain proper upper control arm swing geometry, Basically makes the upper control arm longer so that it's pivot angle decreases dramatically, keeping wheel camber where they want.

Will be interesting to see how it ends up holding up in all the circumstances of real world abuse that don't make it into stress analysis programs.

I thought I read it has 25 inches of front wheel travel? That's pretty fucking impressive.

IF that design keeps the camber the same, through that entire range, that would be even more impressive.

For people that aren't competing, and know how to drive, this looks to be a killer ride.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I thought I read it has 25 inches of front wheel travel? That's pretty fucking impressive.

IF that design keep us the camber the same, through that entire range, that would be even more impressive.

For people that aren't competing, and know how to drive, this looks to be a killer ride.

Those numbers are fake, and that travel is unusable. But it makes for good marketing propaganda.

The reduced scrub actually does more than the camber curve in this case.

 

[MonkeyButt70]

Lets not forget about the S10 that did this same thing before CanAm:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CwMFIuVLhS6/?img_index=1

 

[gqchris]

I feel like this is directed at me.

Sir, I still hold the title of the slowest CanAm driver Dont try to take that away from me!

 

[DLC]

I feel like this is directed at me.

Nope not you….

we know a guy…
let’s just call him ….. oh say, Hmmm ….. Sian - that had a tire issues …

@Bpracing1127
this is not a call out thread….


lol

 

[DLC]

Sir, I still hold the title of the slowest CanAm driver Dont try to take that away from me!

That night on the Alamo Ride - headed back from the bar wasn’t slow….

 

[DLC]

Those numbers are fake, and that travel is unusable. But it makes for good marketing propaganda.

The reduced scrub actually does more than the camber curve in this case.

wait…

25 in the frt
26 out back

isn’t true ?


next your gonna say is a Speed car is a unicorn….
A mythical SXS…


lol

 

[DWC]

Sir, I still hold the title of the slowest CanAm driver Dont try to take that away from me!

Me, you and Dave were in that group. No one was pushing the others..

 

[gqchris]

That night on the Alamo Ride - headed back from the bar wasn’t slow….

I was tuned up sir that night! Sport Mode activated!

Great Time by the way!!

 

[pronstar]

The lower arm takes the majority of punishment.

Icon will give you a deta joint for the upper arm, but do not sell deta joints for lower arms for this reason, as an example.

Looks goofy as hell regardless…upper and lower control-arm suspension designs are mature and common, not sure why they’d reinvent the wheel here

 

[prorider]

It’s all a numbers game. More travel on the spec sheet = more sales. Anyone that’s been in a real offroad car/truck should understand that more travel doesn’t mean shit. There’s trucks with 15” of travel that handle better than a lot of trucks with 20”+.

The Speed has less travel than all if it’s competition but handles the best.

But if Billy Bob and his wife are at Berts trying to buy their first sxs, seeing 26” on this or a Pro R will be a big deciding factor over the Speed with 21” or whatever it is.

Pretty sure speed got last place in the only real world testing that has been done.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Pretty sure speed got last place in the only real world testing that has been done.

You mean the test where they rated the Speed 2nd overall and said it had the best suspension? And where they said it was a set of brake pads away from likely being the best overall?

 

[Bpracing1127]

You mean the test where they rated the Speed 2nd overall and said it had the best suspension? And where they said it was a set of brake pads away from likely being the best overall?

Yep same test where

Speed scored

lowest in power
Lowest in braking
Lowest in fit and finish

Also medium in suspension performance

High in interior cockpit and build structure quality

 

[rrrr]

Hydroforming has been around for approximately 80 years. It’s used a lot in aerospace to form parts in high pressure tanks with H20 or Glycol.

I'm aware of how hydroforming works. It's a fascinating process.

I was asking if it was a new development for the main components of SXS suspensions. Most I've seen have cast or welded parts, using aluminum or steel.

 

[rrrr]

By raising the upper ball joint way up you are using leverage to take a huge amount of load off the upper control arm and upper control arm mounts.

To me it looks like the reason It had to be moved outboard to keep the arm long enough to maintain proper upper control arm swing geometry, Basically makes the upper control arm longer so that it's pivot angle decreases dramatically, keeping wheel camber where they want.

Will be interesting to see how it ends up holding up in all the circumstances of real world abuse that don't make it into stress analysis programs.

These are good observations.

I don't know anything about SXSs, but am reasonably educated about front end geometry through racing experience. While it's obvious maximum vertical travel is a good thing, the engineers still have to solve camber, caster, and Ackerman issues when designing a successful suspension system.

 

[RiverDave]

You mean the test where they rated the Speed 2nd overall and said it had the best suspension? And where they said it was a set of brake pads away from likely being the best overall?

Yep same test where

Speed scored

lowest in power
Lowest in braking
Lowest in fit and finish

Also medium in suspension performance

High in interior cockpit and build structure quality

Weird how we can all watch the same video and come away with such different conclusions.

RD