WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

kobe bryant

SnoC653

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
242
Reaction score
416
Mentioned by 530RL above (I think).
Scud Running
A pilot sets out on a flight with a plan, and makes little 'adjustments' along the way in an effort to stick to the plan.
After enough of these adjustments, you can easily fall behind what's actually happening to the aircraft.
From speculation I've heard, some pretty experienced people think the pilot was attempting a 180 back (turning around, back to the direction he was coming from) but turned into the hillside, not away from it.

This is truly a tragic event. Scud running in a helicopter is a very common method of flight. It is safer than in an airplane because of the helicopter's abilty to just stop and land almost anywhere (if needed) and the ability to slow down to a point where you can still see what is going on in bad visibility. When I flew in Germany the first flight of the day was usually the scud run to find out where the fog was an just how bad it was. It was good enough to launch and take off and check it out as long as we could recover back at our base or another base within fuel range. You learn a great deal about how far you are willing to push it flying those early flights. But scud running was exhilarating to say the least. I flew a Reforger mission with a very experienced pilot that had no experience flying in Germany. We were scud running to position the bird to pick up the General when I called it and we set down to wait out the weather. When the fog lifted 25 min. later there was an uncharted (on our maps) set of high tension power lines less than 600 feet in front of where we set down and we would have probably hit them had we pushed on. There is no replacement for experience and familiarity with the area you are flying in. Nobody has mentioned anything about the pilot's. I am type rated in the S76 and it is a very capable platform. Sometimes having all the bells and whistles gives a pilot a false sense of security. Could/Should the pilot of pulled pitch and declared the emergency inadvertent IFR? Hind sight says yes. Should he have had a second pilot flying in sketchy weather? My opinion would be yes. 160 knots is cranking for that helicopter and is beyond a standard S-76's VNE (velocity never to exceed). Was the pilot disoriented and trying to transition to IFR (one of the hardest things to do if you wait just a little too long and get it out of shape prior to committing)? Quite possibly. That helicopter can fly just as well at 60 knots as it can at 150 knts. But what was reported v.s. what actually was could be two totally different things.

If I had to speculate on what happened, a pilot felt a need to execute a mission that should not have been flown to satisfy the perceived desires of his high profile employer. They took off and as the weather deteriorated something caused the pilot to push on rather than make the call and cancel the mission. Was Kobe a difficult person to fly for? I don't know. Would he have fired the pilot had he canceled the flight? I don't know. What I do know from experience is that usually if you explain the risks and give a good briefing to the passengers they will make the right call and cancel a marginal weather flight. Ultimately it is the pilot's responsibility to make the right call. And after all the investigation this crash will be labeled pilot error in some form of legalize.

God speed to all 9 that perished and despite our worldly views, each of the 9 lost is just as important to the Lord.
 

charred1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2011
Messages
791
Reaction score
1,795
Just heard the interview with the Mr. Mauser, husband of one of the crash victims. Heartbreaking to say the least. I didn’t necessarily care for Kobe, but I wouldn’t wish tragedy on anyone. I feel for all the families left behind and the pain they are feeling.
 

hallett21

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
18,547
Reaction score
24,111

I was thinking that given where they went down was the pilot trying to get to the pad before they crashed? He was literally a mile or less from the sheriff pad.

Doesn’t really matter RIP to Kobe, his daughter and everyone involved. [emoji22]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

ONE-A-DAY

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 21, 2010
Messages
18,099
Reaction score
25,659
I’m sorry but I don’t understand people being emotionally devastated, crying and calling in sick to work today over Kobe’s death? They are calling for a parade in LA? If Tom Brady died I would be bummed out but I don’t think I would fly to Massachusetts and hold a candle in front of foxboro stadium and I would be in my office today as usual. I guess I’m just cold an insensitive but I prefer to save my emotions for family, friends and loved ones.
 

Wizard29

43' Eliminator
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
3,111
Reaction score
8,820
I’m sorry but I don’t understand people being emotionally devastated, crying and calling in sick to work today over Kobe’s death? They are calling for a parade in LA? If Tom Brady died I would be bummed out but I don’t think I would fly to Massachusetts and hold a candle in front of foxboro stadium and I would be in my office today as usual. I guess I’m just cold an insensitive but I prefer to save my emotions for family, friends and loved ones.

I pretty much said the same thing yesterday. Very sad for the families and friends of the deceased, but "devastating" for people who didn't even know the victims? I have an acquaintance that was "devastated" when Michael Jackson died. She's a nice girl, but has pretty much nothing going on in her life. Disneyland (read: fantasy/escape from reality) is a priority and aside from that, no significant excitement whatsoever. Some people apparently need some sort of drama to hang on to so they can fill a void. This latest tragedy will provide that fix for many who have nothing else to feel some kind of way about.

Again, very sad for the families and friends of the victims, but crying and calling in sick when you had no association with the victims? Weird.
 

LargeOrangeFont

We aren't happy until you aren't happy
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
49,689
Reaction score
76,183
I’m sorry but I don’t understand people being emotionally devastated, crying and calling in sick to work today over Kobe’s death? They are calling for a parade in LA? If Tom Brady died I would be bummed out but I don’t think I would fly to Massachusetts and hold a candle in front of foxboro stadium and I would be in my office today as usual. I guess I’m just cold an insensitive but I prefer to save my emotions for family, friends and loved ones.

Agreed. This is the other side of the pendulum from the victim/offended mentality.
 
Last edited:

Old Texan

Honorary Warden #377 Emeritus - R.I.P.
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
24,479
Reaction score
25,980
This is truly a tragic event. Scud running in a helicopter is a very common method of flight. It is safer than in an airplane because of the helicopter's abilty to just stop and land almost anywhere (if needed) and the ability to slow down to a point where you can still see what is going on in bad visibility. When I flew in Germany the first flight of the day was usually the scud run to find out where the fog was an just how bad it was. It was good enough to launch and take off and check it out as long as we could recover back at our base or another base within fuel range. You learn a great deal about how far you are willing to push it flying those early flights. But scud running was exhilarating to say the least. I flew a Reforger mission with a very experienced pilot that had no experience flying in Germany. We were scud running to position the bird to pick up the General when I called it and we set down to wait out the weather. When the fog lifted 25 min. later there was an uncharted (on our maps) set of high tension power lines less than 600 feet in front of where we set down and we would have probably hit them had we pushed on. There is no replacement for experience and familiarity with the area you are flying in. Nobody has mentioned anything about the pilot's. I am type rated in the S76 and it is a very capable platform. Sometimes having all the bells and whistles gives a pilot a false sense of security. Could/Should the pilot of pulled pitch and declared the emergency inadvertent IFR? Hind sight says yes. Should he have had a second pilot flying in sketchy weather? My opinion would be yes. 160 knots is cranking for that helicopter and is beyond a standard S-76's VNE (velocity never to exceed). Was the pilot disoriented and trying to transition to IFR (one of the hardest things to do if you wait just a little too long and get it out of shape prior to committing)? Quite possibly. That helicopter can fly just as well at 60 knots as it can at 150 knts. But what was reported v.s. what actually was could be two totally different things.

If I had to speculate on what happened, a pilot felt a need to execute a mission that should not have been flown to satisfy the perceived desires of his high profile employer. They took off and as the weather deteriorated something caused the pilot to push on rather than make the call and cancel the mission. Was Kobe a difficult person to fly for? I don't know. Would he have fired the pilot had he canceled the flight? I don't know. What I do know from experience is that usually if you explain the risks and give a good briefing to the passengers they will make the right call and cancel a marginal weather flight. Ultimately it is the pilot's responsibility to make the right call. And after all the investigation this crash will be labeled pilot error in some form of legalize.

God speed to all 9 that perished and despite our worldly views, each of the 9 lost is just as important to the Lord.
Again, I can not understand how they were allowed takeoff in these conditions. So many things that could go wrong are accentuated by dense fog. I have no experience flying in fog, but have driven in it and have boated in fog banks so thick, I could not see several feet past the bow. Sounds change and orientation becomes confusing. I cannot imagine flying at the speeds claimed in fog. Just a matter of when something goes wrong not if......

Is takeoff strictly pilot perogative? If so, that my change hopefully
 

Sleek-Jet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
13,388
Reaction score
16,905
Again, I can not understand how they were allowed takeoff in these conditions. So many things that could go wrong are accentuated by dense fog. I have no experience flying in fog, but have driven in it and have boated in fog banks so thick, I could not see several feet past the bow. Sounds change and orientation becomes confusing. I cannot imagine flying at the speeds claimed in fog. Just a matter of when something goes wrong not if......

Is takeoff strictly pilot perogative? If so, that my change hopefully

I hope not.

Without getting to far into the weeds here, unlike scheduled commercial operations and charter operations, private aviation gets to go "have a look". And the takeoff isn't the issue here, it was the enroute weather. He should have turned around but didn't.

Again, private flights get more leeway.

Crashes like this are tragic as hell, but sometimes a bit more freedom comes with higher risks.
 

ka0tyk

Warlock Performance Boats Merchandise Connections
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Messages
9,064
Reaction score
11,651
I pretty much said the same thing yesterday. Very sad for the families and friends of the deceased, but "devastating" for people who didn't even know the victims? I have an acquaintance that was "devastated" when Michael Jackson died. She's a nice girl, but has pretty much nothing going on in her life. Disneyland (read: fantasy/escape from reality) is a priority and aside from that, no significant excitement whatsoever. Some people apparently need some sort of drama to hang on to so they can fill a void. This latest tragedy will provide that fix for many who have nothing else to feel some kind of way about.

Again, very sad for the families and friends of the victims, but crying and calling in sick when you had no association with the victims? Weird.

I dont understand it either with celebrities, etc. My boss (a big lakers/kobe fan...) just walked into work and hes crying. I could MAYBE understand a musician because you might attribute that to a memory/moment in your life and how you felt as if their lyrics were written just for you?
 

pkbullet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
800
Reaction score
2,259
I dont understand it either with celebrities, etc. My boss (a big lakers/kobe fan...) just walked into work and hes crying. I could MAYBE understand a musician because you might attribute that to a memory/moment in your life and how you felt as if their lyrics were written just for you?
I can understand it being sad that he and the other adults passed, but the tragedy is the loss of the two children.
 

LowRiver2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
9,230
Reaction score
17,088
I’m sorry but I don’t understand people being emotionally devastated, crying and calling in sick to work today over Kobe’s death? They are calling for a parade in LA? If Tom Brady died I would be bummed out but I don’t think I would fly to Massachusetts and hold a candle in front of foxboro stadium and I would be in my office today as usual. I guess I’m just cold an insensitive but I prefer to save my emotions for family, friends and loved ones.
I’m sorry but I don’t understand people being emotionally devastated, crying and calling in sick to work today over Kobe’s death? They are calling for a parade in LA? If Tom Brady died I would be bummed out but I don’t think I would fly to Massachusetts and hold a candle in front of foxboro stadium and I would be in my office today as usual. I guess I’m just cold an insensitive but I prefer to save my emotions for family, friends and loved ones.

To each their own Walt. I’m with you but I also know a lot of people have been lucky enough to not lose loved ones they actually know personally to violence, crashes, etc., and therefore are hit hard by events like this in an abstract way.
Same ones usually don’t take cover when bullets are flying either.
 

playdeep

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
2,341
Reaction score
5,383
Pat Tillman=hero
Roberto Clemente=hero
The talking heads/gas bags at ESPN are in full canonization mode.
...never understand hero worship of athletes.

I feel sorrow for all that passed.Especially the children.(RIP).
 

TPC

Wrenching Dad
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
31,886
Reaction score
25,971
Other Passengers:
5e2f05d5240000e5020b5056.jpg.cf.jpg
 

Cole Trickle

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
23,698
Reaction score
16,429
What people are missing is that Kobe is/was an icon in the prime of his life......There might not be a bigger world wide star than him created in the digital/social media age.

Of course the passing off all 9 aboard the copter is tragic. Tons of life's were changed yesterday

The difference is what he meant to the city and all that he has accomplished. Read up on the guys body of work and you can see why he means so much to the sports world especially Southern California. He also seems to be a huge mentor and confidant to countless young people over the years and seems to have fostered some pretty amazing relationships behind the scenes.

I have always been a Lakers fan. I'm hardly a die hard sports fanatic so this isn't something that will bring me to tears. What I can say is I'm 43 years old and was 20 when he came into the league and i have been a part of his 20 year journey. The ups...the downs...the end of basketball and seeing him grow as a person and a father has been the thing that I was most impressed with. Watch some of his recent interviews and you will see the evolution of a person that continues to strive to get better. That hits home to someone that is in the middle of his married life with an 11 year old son that we spend several days a week on the soccer field. I can't imagine the loss of a child like so many are feeling that is bar none the saddest part about this whole tragedy.

Godspeed to the 9 :(
 

beertruck

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
374
Reaction score
1,031
To each their own Walt. I’m with you but I also know a lot of people have been lucky enough to not lose loved ones they actually know personally to violence, crashes, etc., and therefore are hit hard by events like this in an abstract way.
Same ones usually don’t take cover when bullets are flying either.
Again, I can not understand how they were allowed takeoff in these conditions. So many things that could go wrong are accentuated by dense fog. I have no experience flying in fog, but have driven in it and have boated in fog banks so thick, I could not see several feet past the bow. Sounds change and orientation becomes confusing. I cannot imagine flying at the speeds claimed in fog. Just a matter of when something goes wrong not if......

Is takeoff strictly pilot perogative? If so, that my change hopefully
 

mobldj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
3,007
Reaction score
4,948
I’m sorry but I don’t understand people being emotionally devastated, crying and calling in sick to work today over Kobe’s death? They are calling for a parade in LA? If Tom Brady died I would be bummed out but I don’t think I would fly to Massachusetts and hold a candle in front of foxboro stadium and I would be in my office today as usual. I guess I’m just cold an insensitive but I prefer to save my emotions for family, friends and loved ones.
i agree.soldiers died last week and no one gives a shit.sad story for sure but hes a basketball player.whats next.national kobe day off with pay.lets stay grounded here folks.
 

LowRiver2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
9,230
Reaction score
17,088
The pilot in question approached low visibility. He asked for clearance to proceed which Helicopters can do. The approval doesn’t put blame on air traffic control.
I doubt any rules will change. I suspect people that use charter helicopters will be more cautious and ask pilots their (pilots) parameters for pushing forward in inclement weather at the very least.
And for anyone here jumping on me for speculation , I’ve talked to enough pilots in the govt. field and fast roped off their helo’s to know the pilot is the final judge on weather they push forward or not on a said path.
The final answer is months away for sure .
 

mbrown2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
Messages
7,979
Reaction score
5,998
Sad day yesterday. Probably two things in life that bring unity between people with differences. Politics no; religion no...but Sports and Music yes. I grew up a Laker fan and Kobe was the 2nd coming of Magic. I remember growing up in a racially diverse area that sports and music allowed our differences to blend. Watching Lakers play anybody we could jokingly talk trash as friends and put each other's team/player/rapper/band/singer down and it all melted the differences away and connected us at more a cellular level. When people say how could you hurt so much for someone you did not know. Like a song or scent his accomplishments connected us as friends...those games or times you had with family and friends watching are like scent of an old girlfriend or a song that brings you back front and center to a time in your life.

I still remember game 4 2002 Western Conference finals like it was yesterday...1st year in the river house...all our friends are down for Memorial Day weekend and there we are switching between beers at the dock and watching the Lakers and Kings.... and Robert Horry's incredible 3 at the buzzer to win it. We celebrated by heading to Roadrunner for some post game refreshments. I remember days like that and Kirk Gibson's 1988 homer as things that bonded family and friends.

He was definitely more than player. Yesterday's loss were parents and children at the end the day which was dreadful, tragic, and unthinkable. However it underscores the precious time we have here. Kobe always pushed to be the best on the court and off. He made mistakes like all of us and he changed and made himself better from it. I don't know all of the others story and pasts except they were a great juco coach, a girls basketball coach, a mom, a pilot, and children. All of them and the loss will have profound impact on those they touched.
 
Last edited:

cofooter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
6,077
Reaction score
10,482
The pilot in question approached low visibility. He asked for clearance to proceed which Helicopters can do. The approval doesn’t put blame on air traffic control.
I doubt any rules will change. I suspect people that use charter helicopters will be more cautious and ask pilots their (pilots) parameters for pushing forward in inclement weather at the very least.
And for anyone here jumping on me for speculation , I’ve talked to enough pilots in the govt. field and fast roped off their helo’s to know the pilot is the final judge on weather they push forward or not on a said path.
The final answer is months away for sure .
With his poor decision, if it comes down to that, he could have just as easily wiped out an apartment building or multiple houses with people inside, The decision has to be about more than just the pilot and passengers. I agree with others, why was he allowed to take off.
 

ONE-A-DAY

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 21, 2010
Messages
18,099
Reaction score
25,659
i agree.soldiers died last week and no one gives a shit.sad story for sure but hes a basketball player.whats next.national kobe day off with pay.lets stay grounded here folks.

Its being considered by the LA City Council, a official day of mourning, and city holiday for his birthday.
 

LowRiver2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
9,230
Reaction score
17,088
With his poor decision, if it comes down to that, he could have just as easily wiped out an apartment building or multiple houses with people inside, The decision has to be about more than just the pilot and passengers. I agree with others, why was he allowed to take off.


He took off from OC in clear weather.
He encountered the limited visibility around Burbank and circled waiting for a clearance for his request to go on and probably air control and he were waiting to see if the fog burned off.
There comes a point where Traffic control gives a yes or not to proceed but they don’t know the pilot’s experience or judgement.
It was a no go for conventional first responder A stsrs
 

Mr. C

going back in time
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
9,506
Reaction score
12,094
The Burbank tower air control gave him permission to continue.
A little cut and paste from the article.

The Burbank Airport control tower allowed the helicopter to proceed using the special clearance, the audio reveals.
"Maintain special VFR at or below 2,500" the pilot confirmed to the controller.
Later in the flight, the pilot apparently asked for "flight following," a service in which controllers are in regular contract with an aircraft.
The controller told the pilot "you're still too low level for flight following at this time." That could mean the helicopter was too low to be seen on air traffic control radar.
 

monkeyswrench

To The Rescue!
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
29,744
Reaction score
85,261
To each their own Walt. I’m with you but I also know a lot of people have been lucky enough to not lose loved ones they actually know personally to violence, crashes, etc., and therefore are hit hard by events like this in an abstract way.
Same ones usually don’t take cover when bullets are flying either.
In an odd way, I guess I am somewhat envious of those who have not been subject to the above misfortunes of life. I think what one sees in life may harden them a bit more than those who have been relatively sheltered. I am relatively "cold" when it comes to the passing of people I share no connection to.
 

beertruck

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
374
Reaction score
1,031
I have flown in my business partners R44 many times, and one time I remember it being a perfect clear day when we took off, and 50 files away were we were heading some fog came in. It was only in a 5 mile area, but unfortunately where we wanted to go. Had to stop, and get redirected by air traffic control, until a window opened and we were allowed to come in and land. There may not even been a fog issue when they took off, so we can not just assume they were reckless in the decision to fly that day.
 

530RL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
22,350
Reaction score
21,673
Unlike fixed wing, rotorcraft can request Special VFR night or day by simply remaining clear of clouds. That's it. No requirement for an instrument rated pilot or an instrument rated aircraft.

ATC may or may not clear a request for flight via SVFR depending upon other traffic and workload.

Sometimes it is better to go over it, than try to work around it. Just a personal preference.....

IMG_0315.JPG
 
Last edited:

yz450mm

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2013
Messages
3,624
Reaction score
7,339
"Shortly after 9:40 a.m., the helicopter turned again, toward the southeast, and climbed to more than 2,000 feet. It then descended and crashed into the hillside at about 1,400 feet, according to data from Flightradar24."

"When it struck the ground, the helicopter was flying at about 184 mph and descending at a rate of more than 4,000 feet per minute, the data showed."

“It [didn’t] sound right and it was real low. I saw it falling and spluttering. But it was hard to make out as it was so foggy,” Jerry Kocharian, a witness, told the Los Angeles Times."

"You could hear it – thump, thump, thump – and then a loud thud," Pastor Bob Bjerkaas, who was teaching Sunday school at the Church in the Canyons, told USA Today.

It doesn't sound like they flew into the side of the mountain, it sounds like they tried to grab some altitude then fell out of the sky.
 

Universal Elements

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
5,560
Reaction score
12,033
The pilot of the helicopter that crashed killing Kobe Bryant and eight others was Ara Zobayan, according to the pilot’s neighbor and a former colleague at Island Express helicopter company. Zobayan was among the victims of the crash.

Pilot Kurt Deetz, who worked at Island Express with Zobayan, considered him a friend and wouldn’t comment on Zobayan’s experience but said he would trust him to fly him.

Zobayan’s neighbor, Robert Sapia, said Zobayan loved his job and would show him photos of the celebrities he would fly around, including Bryant.

According to the FAA's pilot certification database, Zobayan is an instrument-certified pilot who earned his commercial pilot's license in 2007. He is also a certified flight instructor for instrument instruction for helicopter pilots, the records show.

The database also shows Zobayan was up to date on FAA-required annual medical exams.
 

Kfabe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
566
Reaction score
1,607

you decide....


Kobe just received a well deserved Academy Award this past Oscars. Not much scandal beyond the Kobe Dick incident.

15800697775813.jpg

"MSNBC Anchor Denies Using N-Word During Kobe Bryant Report
MSNBC anchor Alison Morris responded to a viral video on Sunday, trying to explain a vocal flub during a report on the death of former NBA star Kobe Bryant that many on social media took to be the N-word.

Not long after the news of Bryant’s death in a helicopter crash broke, Morris told MSNBC viewers that Bryant was “perfectly cast” on the Los Angeles Lakers, except she stumbled over the name of the team. Many believe Morris uttered the N-word but she said that is simply not the case.

“Earlier today, while reporting on the tragic news of Kobe Bryant’s passing, I unfortunately stuttered on air, combining the names of the Knicks and the Lakers to say ‘Nakers,'” Morris tweeted later on Sunday. “Please know I did not & would NEVER use a racist term. I apologize for the confusion this caused."
Yahoo News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebDqPEE-JEU
Kobe just received a well deserved Academy Award this past Oscars. Not much scandal beyond the Kobe Dick incident.


"MSNBC Anchor Denies Using N-Word During Kobe Bryant Report
MSNBC anchor Alison Morris responded to a viral video on Sunday, trying to explain a vocal flub during a report on the death of former NBA star Kobe Bryant that many on social media took to be the N-word.

Not long after the news of Bryant’s death in a helicopter crash broke, Morris told MSNBC viewers that Bryant was “perfectly cast” on the Los Angeles Lakers, except she stumbled over the name of the team. Many believe Morris uttered the N-word but she said that is simply not the case.

“Earlier today, while reporting on the tragic news of Kobe Bryant’s passing, I unfortunately stuttered on air, combining the names of the Knicks and the Lakers to say ‘Nakers,'” Morris [URL='https://twitter.com/AlisonMorrisNOW/status/1221555983635357696']tweeted
later on Sunday. “Please know I did not & would NEVER use a racist term. I apologize for the confusion this caused."
Yahoo News
[/URL]
 
  • Like
Reactions: TPC

rrrr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
16,148
Reaction score
36,224
"Shortly after 9:40 a.m., the helicopter turned again, toward the southeast, and climbed to more than 2,000 feet. It then descended and crashed into the hillside at about 1,400 feet, according to data from Flightradar24."

"When it struck the ground, the helicopter was flying at about 184 mph and descending at a rate of more than 4,000 feet per minute, the data showed."

“It [didn’t] sound right and it was real low. I saw it falling and spluttering. But it was hard to make out as it was so foggy,” Jerry Kocharian, a witness, told the Los Angeles Times."

"You could hear it – thump, thump, thump – and then a loud thud," Pastor Bob Bjerkaas, who was teaching Sunday school at the Church in the Canyons, told USA Today.

It doesn't sound like they flew into the side of the mountain, it sounds like they tried to grab some altitude then fell out of the sky.

The "spluttering" and "thumps" heard by witnesses were undoubtedly the main rotor blades producing sounds consistent with significant air loads. These can be heard during large changes in the cyclic or collective controls by the pilot. I think everyone that's been around helicopters maneuvering during police or firefighting activities is familiar with them.

The FR24 data indicates the possibility of a steep climb into IMC (instrument meteorologic conditions) and a loss of spatial orientation by the pilot. That's a situation where a pilot believes what his inner ear is telling his brain, instead of relying on instruments, and initiates aircraft movements which can cause a loss of control.

This can result in an uncontrolled descent or even overloading the aircraft and causing it to break up. The twin engine airplane that crashed in Yorba Linda on Super Bowl Sunday last year was an example of this. The house that burned and in which people died was hit by one of the plane's wings that contained somewhere between 50 and 100 gallons of avgas.
 
Last edited:

hallett21

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
18,547
Reaction score
24,111
Guy is responsible for changing thousand of kid’s lives through after school programs that he raised money or directly paid for.

Has donated and raised millions to cancer research.

He set up a foundation that offered scholarships for kids.

To say he had an effect on the community is an understatement.

Not sure where the animosity towards Kobe is coming from.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Universal Elements

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
5,560
Reaction score
12,033
The "spluttering" and "thumps" heard by witnesses were undoubtedly the main rotor blades producing sounds consistent with significant airloads. These can be heard during large changes in the cyclic or collective controls. I think everyone that's been around helicopters maneuvering during police or firefighting activities is familiar with them.

Or the main rotor blades hitting trees/vegetation and the hill. The thumps could be when the blades are coming apart and hitting the ground or whatever is in their path.
 

TPC

Wrenching Dad
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
31,886
Reaction score
25,971
Death comes on Wings. Sad.
Wife and Maynard are familiar with that hiking trail where the tragedy happened. Easy access though the authorities are saying difficult. Maybe to discourage fans or relic hunters.
The trail will probably be closed for years to come.
Oldest child said Fred Rogan, Ben Stein and Gallagher live right adjacent or did at one time.

Las Virgenes cn AKA Malibu Canyon to locals off ramps off the 101 are closed all directions and local ID only just before Mulholland drive both directions. Use Kanan Dume Rd.

We had a school carpool once that stretched out that far.
 
Last edited:

Yellowboat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
16,110
Reaction score
6,369
I dont get the going to the crash site deal at all. Even if i thought of him as a "star" and it was with in a 15 min drive. I would not go there. That just seens so odd to me. Even if he was my so called " hero" i still would not go. I might be sad, but i would still get up in the morning and fo to work with out a second thought.


Hell i have a super broing day to day with basicly overseeing slump tests and making sure the foundation pores are done correctly. I feel like a caltrans employee today.
 

rrrr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
16,148
Reaction score
36,224
Or the main rotor blades hitting trees/vegetation and the hill. The thumps could be when the blades are coming apart and hitting the ground or whatever is in their path.

The descriptions of the witnesses I read detailed the last moments of flight, before the helicopter hit the ground, and they mistakenly attributed it to engine noise. The "loud thud" one witness said it made when it went down is an unmistakable noise. If you've seen an airshow crash, that's the sound. Take a look at some YouTube videos and you'll understand what I mean.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TPC

bonesfab

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
6,264
Reaction score
27,804
Just a random thought. Doesn’t google maps work at some elevation? I mean driving around it stays within 20 ft of your location. Why couldn’t the pilot follow the blue dot on his phone. A reasonable elevation and stay right along the freeway. I am sure i am over simplifying it. I am not a huge sports fan so this doesn’t really bother me. I feel bad for the families, but I am not shattered over his death. At least he did some good with his fortune. There are plenty out there that don’t do shit for others.
 

SnoC653

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
242
Reaction score
416
"Shortly after 9:40 a.m., the helicopter turned again, toward the southeast, and climbed to more than 2,000 feet. It then descended and crashed into the hillside at about 1,400 feet, according to data from Flightradar24."

"When it struck the ground, the helicopter was flying at about 184 mph and descending at a rate of more than 4,000 feet per minute, the data showed."

“It [didn’t] sound right and it was real low. I saw it falling and spluttering. But it was hard to make out as it was so foggy,” Jerry Kocharian, a witness, told the Los Angeles Times."

"You could hear it – thump, thump, thump – and then a loud thud," Pastor Bob Bjerkaas, who was teaching Sunday school at the Church in the Canyons, told USA Today.

It doesn't sound like they flew into the side of the mountain, it sounds like they tried to grab some altitude then fell out of the sky.
The pilot of the helicopter that crashed killing Kobe Bryant and eight others was Ara Zobayan, according to the pilot’s neighbor and a former colleague at Island Express helicopter company. Zobayan was among the victims of the crash.

Pilot Kurt Deetz, who worked at Island Express with Zobayan, considered him a friend and wouldn’t comment on Zobayan’s experience but said he would trust him to fly him.

Zobayan’s neighbor, Robert Sapia, said Zobayan loved his job and would show him photos of the celebrities he would fly around, including Bryant.

According to the FAA's pilot certification database, Zobayan is an instrument-certified pilot who earned his commercial pilot's license in 2007. He is also a certified flight instructor for instrument instruction for helicopter pilots, the records show.

The database also shows Zobayan was up to date on FAA-required annual medical exams.

The speed and decent rate of the aircraft at the time of impact, If correct, would be indicative of a pilot with spatial disorientation. It is very common for pilots transitioning from VFR to IFR unexpectedly to get spatial disorientation. This condition is where your body is thinking it is in one position or activity when it isn't. Your body tells you you are going up when you are going down, turning when you aren't, ect... As mentioned in the second post the pilot was an instrument flight instructor so he would know about the condition, that doesn't make him immune to it. Asking for flight following to me seems that he was preparing to call for an IFR clearance and declare the inadvertent IFR. It is a tough fight to have your body telling you one thing is happening and your flight instruments telling you something else is. It can be a life and death struggle in fact.

I am not sure how much I trust the reported flightradar24. If flight following couldn't pick him up, what radar system was tracking him exactly? Not that it isn't possible for another system to have tracked them. As for the descriptions of flying real low (trying to maintain visual contact with the ground) and then to say the witness saw it falling and sputtering (I'll call BS). If the visibility was so bad that the pilot couldn't maintain ground contact the person on the ground couldn't see the helicopter above him either especially at 600 feet agl. And how long would he see it in poor visibility at even 100 mph. And if the witness was correct and it was falling it wouldn't have been descending at 4000 fpm. nor flying at 184mph. To get a S-76 to descend at that kind of speed you have to fly it toward the ground. They might be able to achieve that kind of decent rate if they were high enough and the rotors flew off, but 2000 feet msl (600 feet agl if they reached 2000 feet on radar and hit the hill at an altitude of 1400 msl) isn't enough height to reach that rate of descent unless flown downward.

The description of the pilot's experience sound like he was a dedicated professional pilot. Could he have made better decisions on this flight? Hind sight is always 20/20. I can assure you he did not intend for the flight to end as it did. Could he have had a malfunctioning aircraft contribute to the final outcome? absolutely it is possible. The military considers the Blackhawk a 2 pilot aircraft because of the complexities and the effort it takes in an emergency situation to keep the systems in check and keep it flying properly, this is the civilian variant and is just as complex. For a single pilot to transition from VFR to IFR and anything go wrong with the aircraft would be a very demanding experience. If that pilot was experiencing Spatial Disorientation it would be almost impossible to overcome if anything went wrong at the same time. I will speculate that the aircraft was functioning just fine and unfortunately the pilot's body was not. At 600 feet AGL and a decent of 4000 fpm the pilot would have less than 10 seconds to figure it out by analyzing the instruments, fight thru his bodily instincts and make the corrections needed to stop the descent and climb. If you throw in turning and accelerating to fix also it becomes easy to understand why a single pilot might not pull it off. Helicopters do not want to fly inherently, pilots make them fly. I can promise you that pilot, rest his sole, was fighting to fly that helicopter until his last breath.
 

Yellowboat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
16,110
Reaction score
6,369
Just a random thought. Doesn’t google maps work at some elevation? I mean driving around it stays within 20 ft of your location. Why couldn’t the pilot follow the blue dot on his phone. A reasonable elevation and stay right along the freeway. I am sure i am over simplifying it. I am not a huge sports fan so this doesn’t really bother me. I feel bad for the families, but I am not shattered over his death. At least he did some good with his fortune. There are plenty out there that don’t do shit for others.


He has way better than that on the aircraft, plus there is an ipad app called foreflight that pretty much mimincs what he has on his instruments. Pretty much every comml pilot i know uses it as it does so much of the "work" for the pilot. Things like flight plan, weather, comm frequencies, you name it it does it.


Its from an off shoot of boeing. Drives me nuts that they wont make an android version and they have no plans too.
 

bonesfab

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
6,264
Reaction score
27,804
He has way better than that on the aircraft, plus there is an ipad app called foreflight that pretty much mimincs what he has on his instruments. Pretty much every comml pilot i know uses it as it does so much of the "work" for the pilot. Things like flight plan, weather, comm frequencies, you name it it does it.


Its from an off shoot of boeing. Drives me nuts that they wont make an android version and they have no plans too.
Obviously not if he flew it into the side of a mountain.
 

SKIDMARC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2011
Messages
3,512
Reaction score
3,912
Guy is responsible for changing thousand of kid’s lives through after school programs that he raised money or directly paid for.

Has donated and raised millions to cancer research.

He set up a foundation that offered scholarships for kids.

To say he had an effect on the community is an understatement.

Not sure where the animosity towards Kobe is coming from.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Ya know hatters are going to hate and there are allot on this site. Someone that was more important to allot of people than they will ever be , and given there responses its very clear why. Talking shit about a person within hours of there death just speaks volumes to the type of person they really are. I feel sorry for them and the people around them including there families.

Why not just say RIP, no got to hate because he made a difference in so many peoples lives and inspired allot of people and they loved him for it, not just in SOCAL but around the world. All the people talking shit, I doubt they have a hand full of people in the world that care that much about them given there attitude. Its really sad to be a person like that.

With that said, I love the Lakers and Kobe. I watched his career since he came into the league. Really he was the one that got me more into basketball. Overcoming all the odds and reaching the top of the game is inspiring.

To all the families involved my heart goes out to them. Especially the ones that lost there children. You're just not supposed to burry your kids. I just can imagine the pain, nor do I want to ever feel that type of pain. Kobe's wife has to burry her husband and daughter. A father and his children have to bury their wife/mom. A daughter has to bury her sister and mom. So sad. God speed to all.
 

hallett21

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
18,547
Reaction score
24,111
Obviously not if he flew it into the side of a mountain.
I don't want to speculate but from the sounds of it there was mechanical trouble. The pilot went from talking to the tower calmly to inaudible within mins. Guessing he was trying to save the aircraft and didn't have time to tell the tower what was happening.

Unless theres another version of the audio already out?
 

Yellowboat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
16,110
Reaction score
6,369
Obviously not if he flew it into the side of a mountain.
If i was a betting man, he flew into the fog and got disoriented. There are guys that fly into clouds, turn upside down and dont know it.
 
Top