kobe bryant

[HBCraig]

VFR into IMC it appears. Sad.

Can you explain to us non aviation types?

 

[Outdrive1]

Can you explain to us non aviation types?

My dad has been a pilot longer than I’ve been alive. He said the same thing to me. I had to Google it. Lol.

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[Yellowboat]

Can you explain to us non aviation types?

Vfr visual flight rules
Imc/ifr instrument meteorological conditions /instrument flight rules

Basically he went from being able to see, to not. In this case visual range was 2.5 miles at the air port and something way less near the crash.

 

[LowRiver2]

At least it was quick
184 mph into a hillside

LAPD and LASD wouldn’t fly today in that
Visibility
If first responders with thousands more hours than other pilots won’t fly in those conditions, you know it’s not worth the risk.

Sad deal but avoidable

I’m fortunate to know pilots of all three birds above. They would only go into that weather on a rescue and with much more tech at their disposal, still would be a difficult operation

 

[Carlson-jet]

R.I.P to all NINE Passengers.

 

[BajaT]

Maybe wait to drop your bullshit on, oh I don't know....NOT ON THE DAY HE DIED!I

You can't possible be that numb to the day

My bullshit is only that I feel for everyone. Meanwhile, innocent kids perished but its all about some guy that scored a lot of points and raped a chic and got away with it....His last name might as well be Kardashian... You and I died today in that helicopter, it ain't discussed in riverdavesplace. Perhaps it's my bad attempt at looking out for the other 8 that died, including 2 juveniles.

 

[BajaT]

At least it was quick
184 mph into a hillside

LAPD and LASD wouldn’t fly today in that
Visibility
If first responders with thousands more hours than other pilots won’t fly in those conditions, you know it’s not worth the risk.

Sad deal but avoidable

Also part of frustration.....Child living in celebrity world......I'll take my chances on the ground...….

 

[HBCraig]

At least it was quick
184 mph into a hillside

LAPD and LASD wouldn’t fly today in that
Visibility
If first responders with thousands more hours than other pilots won’t fly in those conditions, you know it’s not worth the risk.

Sad deal but avoidable

Holy shit

That's fast

 

[bluebleeder]

My bullshit is only that I feel for everyone. Meanwhile, innocent kids perished but its all about some guy that scored a lot of points and raped a chic and got away with it....His last name might as well be Kardashian... You and I died today in that helicopter, it ain't discussed in riverdavesplace. Perhaps it's my bad attempt at looking out for the other 8 that died, including 2 juveniles.

You said one thing right, nobody would talk about you if died on RDP nor would they me. We don't have the reach Kobe did. Let it go.

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[530RL]

Can you explain to us non aviation types?

“VFR” is visual flight rules. Basically you can see where you are going.

“IFR” is instrument flight rules. Basically you are in clouds and have no visibility or reduced visibility to a level lower than the rules allow. You rely on instruments and a flight plan to control the aircraft and to make sure you don’t run into anything.

“SVFR” is special visual flight rules. Basically an ATC clearance allowing a pilot to operate in conditions that do not meet VFR but may be appropriate for one to work around clouds and impaired visibility.

Rotorcraft have different SVFR rules than do fixed wing.

Now to the salient point. VFR into IMC is when a pilot operating under “visual flight rules” flies into meteorological conditions that are subject to “instrument flight rules”. More simply you fly into conditions that impair your ability to see in front and around you.

That is bad, and results in a lot of accidents. It is bad because pilots become spatially disorientated (you lose your sense of up and down and right and left as you lose reference to the ground) or you run into something solid like a mountain.

When you run into something solid that is called as pointed out in another post CFIT, or “controlled flight into terrain”.

I have no idea what happened here and am certain, having been involved in them, that the NTSB will find out what the probable cause of this accident was. No reason to speculate now as it does not change anything but the investigation will be data that people can use.

But that is the basics.

 

[JD D05]

My bullshit is only that I feel for everyone. Meanwhile, innocent kids perished but its all about some guy that scored a lot of points and raped a chic and got away with it....His last name might as well be Kardashian... You and I died today in that helicopter, it ain't discussed in riverdavesplace. Perhaps it's my bad attempt at looking out for the other 8 that died, including 2 juveniles.

It's been a long time but I knew a kid in Beaver Creek area that knew her...apparently she had accused 2 other people of rape. Really not the time and place to bring that up and don't really want to discuss it. But I personally am very skeptical of any celebrity accused of rape. They don't need to.

 

[Bobby V]

Again, tragic event.... Media doesn't mention the non NBA deaths, all about some dude that played BKB. 8 others, including kids died. But poor Kobe, as if he is better than rest of us....He did sexually assault a female while on the road while he was married. I am pissed that kids died. Sorry if that made u mad. This is coming from a Laker fan with an autographed Jabbar photo.....

Not sure what news you have been watching. But the local news has been all over the deaths of Coach Alto, his wife and daughter.

 

[Outdrive1]

“VFR” is visual flight rules. Basically you can see where you are going.

“IFR” is instrument flight rules. Basically you are in clouds and have no visibility or reduced visibility to a level lower than the rules allow. You rely on instruments and a flight plan to control the aircraft and to make sure you don’t run into anything.

“SVFR” is special visual flight rules. Basically an ATC clearance allowing a pilot to operate in conditions that do not meet VFR.

Rotorcraft have different SVFR rules than do fixed wing.

Now to the salient point. VFR into IMC is when a pilot operating under “visual flight rules” flies into meteorological conditions that are subject to “instrument flight rules”. More simply you fly into conditions that impair your ability to see in front and around you.

That is bad, and results in a lot of accidents. It is bad because pilots become spatially disorientated (you lose your sense of up and down and right and left as you lose reference to the ground) or you run into something solid like a mountain.

When you run into something solid that is called as pointed out in another post CFIT, or “controlled flight into terrain”.

I have no idea what happened here and am certain, having been involved in them, that the NTSB will find out what the probable cause of this accident was. No reason to speculate now as it does not change anything but the investigation will be data that people can use.

But that is the basics.

Excellent post. And just because you are instrument rated doesn’t mean you should be flying in or into those conditions.


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[Raffit78]

My bullshit is only that I feel for everyone. Meanwhile, innocent kids perished but its all about some guy that scored a lot of points and raped a chic and got away with it....His last name might as well be Kardashian... You and I died today in that helicopter, it ain't discussed in riverdavesplace. Perhaps it's my bad attempt at looking out for the other 8 that died, including 2 juveniles.

Our of respect to all others that have perished. The news broke out about their crash because a news media jumped the gun to be the first to report a story. There has not been a coroner to identify each and every individual that is sadly no longer here. Out of respect to all other families, no department has said the names of the perished. Because non have been identified. When the log book says Kobe Bryant, everyone knows that name.




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[530RL]

Excellent post. And just because you are instrument rated doesn’t mean you should be flying in or into those conditions.


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Being instrument rated means he could control the aircraft in IMC. It doesn’t mean he filed an IFR flight plan to avoid CFIT.

I hate the speculation as it serves no purpose. They will figure out what happened.

It does raise a point however about time of experience. No amount of time can replace judgement. I’d rather a low time pilot with excellent judgement than a high time pilot who is willing to shoot the gap and scud run bad weather.

Not saying that is what happened here, just saying judgement is way more important than time in any aviation matter. At least for me.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Our 13 yr old niece was friends with Gianna for years. They went to school together at a small private academy in Newport. Our niece said Kobe would attend school events and also pick Gianna up from school. She said he was just a good Dad and always very friendly. That's the way I choose to remember him. Our niece also lost one of her prior coaches in the crash. She is devastated.

 

[BajaT]

You said one thing right, nobody would talk about you if died on RDP nor would they me. We don't have the reach Kobe did. Let it go.

I am fine without any reach.....He plays basketball better than you and me. He, with Shaq, won titles, he likely raped a female while married, and now we are supposed to be sad he died, with no mention of the poor other soles.....If that makes me a dick, so be it.....Just comes off like his life was more important than the 8 others. That is my beef.

 

[JD D05]

Our 13 yr old niece was friends with Gianna for years. They went to school together at a small private academy in Newport. Our niece said Kobe would attend school events and also pick Gianna up from school. She said he was just a good Dad and always very friendly. That's the way I choose to remember him. Our niece also lost one of her prior coaches in the crash. She is devastated.

I heard his X trainer on the radio tonight....he said the reason he trained at 5 am is so he could get home to take his kids to school and make them breakfast etc.

 

[RCDave]

Who deleted grads prick post? Low class dick post

 

[napanutt]

 

[BajaT]

No. If you pass a handful of people will give a shit. Kobe touched millions of lives. People follow sports, watch games, and consume themselves with the stars of the games. The news isn’t running stories about you after you die because you didn’t achieve greatness and touch millions of people like he did. [emoji849]


,
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I'd like to say I have touched more than a few people's lives in the line of work that I do. My point I guess is fuc. the media. They try to tell us what and who is important, which, living in a small town, I have tried to escape. I don't care for Kobe anymore than most others, it's sad, though, that it comes off like he is more important than the rest of us, especially considering he was most likely less morally correct than most.... I was sad when I was told, than upset when I heard minors and total of 8 others passed, to include innocent minors.....

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Can you explain to us non aviation types?

530 did an excellent job of explaining it. I hope that wasn't the cause and something more random caused the accident. We'll see.

Here is a very near mis in the same conditions.

 

[Outdrive1]

I'd like to say I have touched more than a few people's lives in the line of work that I do. My point I guess is fuc. the media. They try to tell us what and who is important, which, living in a small town, I have tried to escape. I don't care for Kobe anymore than most others, it's sad, though, that it comes off like he is more important than the rest of us, especially considering he was most likely less morally correct than most.... I was sad when I was told, than upset when I heard minors and total of 8 others passed......

You miss the point. I want to know what happened, as do millions of others. I follow sports. He had a huge impact on the game while he played. I just saw an interview recently and he’s a solid guy. He never went to trial on the rape allegations. That could have been a money grab. Idk. You don’t know either. He was never convicted. From what I saw he was a solid citizen and a loving father along with being a sports icon. Lots of kids grew up wearing his jersey and idolizing him. Lots of people are mourning his loss. It’s not that no one cares about the other 8. People die every second. It doesn’t mean no one cares per se. Let the rest of of the people who do care, mourn him, and be sad for him and his family. Why try and take that away? It’s a tragic death of a sports icon, his daughter and his friends. That’s it. Nothing more nothing less. It’s going to dominate the news cycle until it doesn’t.


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[JBS]

Find some class.....

Dave have you been to the curse of Trump thread.

These guys are downright respectable compared to down there


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[RCDave]

Dave have you been to the curse of Trump thread.

These guys are downright respectable compared to down there


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I don't spend much time down there....

 

[BajaT]

You miss the point. I want to know what happened, as do millions of others. I follow sports. He had a huge impact on the game while he played. I just saw an interview recently and he’s a solid guy. He never went to trial on the rape allegations. That could have been a money grab. Idk. You don’t know either. He was never convicted. From what I saw he was a solid citizen and a loving father along with being a sports icon. Lots of kids grew up wearing his jersey and idolizing him. Lots of people are mourning his loss. It’s not that no one cares about the other 8. People die every second. It doesn’t mean no one cares per se. Let the rest of of the people who do care, mourn him, and be sad for him and his family. Why try and take that away? It’s a tragic death of a sports icon, his daughter and his friends. That’s it. Nothing more nothing less. It’s going to dominate the news cycle until it doesn’t.


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Appreciate your response but most "star" athletes don't get accused of such allegations...Money makes a lot of things go away......Some have higher morals than others... Media makes and breaks people, politicians, celebrities, etc...I understand it sells, just tired of what sells...

Obama and Zimmerman are both 50% white, meanwhile we have had our first " black" president, yet Zimmerman, who looks more Hispanic than Obama looks black, was a "white " guy that killed an "innocent" black guy....I guess I would have rather heard that 9 people died in a chopper crash, name all 9 victims so one does not appear more important than then other. Kobe is just one of 9 deceased. To me, the story is 2 minors died today in a helicopter crash. Ex Laker happen to be on the chopper....Basically, f the media....

 

[Outdrive1]

Can't argue, other than I am tired of the "news cycle." That and I find it interesting, as most athletes that don't get accused...….Money makes a lot of things go away......Some have higher morals than others....Yes, it's very sad.. Media makes and breaks people, politicians, celebrities, etc...I understand it sells, just tired of what sells.....

Athletes, celebrities, politicians. Pretty much anyone with power, fame and money gets accused of that shit. There’s a line of money grabbers lined up for the president too. Doesn’t mean he did it either. I’ll believe it when someone gets convicted, and yes sometimes money does buy your way out of it. Some stuff however, is left to be judged at another level.


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[rrrr]

That's the same LiveATC.net recording I linked above, with video showing the helicopter ground track and subtitles. The repeated circling that shows on the radar ground track is 2EX holding clear of the Burbank airport Class C (the positive ATC control area). It's possible to transition around, under, or over the Class C, but only when in contact with ATC and conforming to their instructions.

2EX had successfully transitioned through the Burbank Class C, and was transitioning the Van Nuys Class C when the crash occurred. Rather than traveling north of the Van Nuys airport as instructed, he inexplicably turned south, and then east, into sharply rising terrain. He may have done so to stay clear of dense ground fog and instrument conditions.

I believe the video posted elsewhere (you may see it in other threads or websites) that shows a helicopter spiraling into the ground and exploding due to an apparent tail rotor failure is not 2EX. It's common for people to post aircraft crash videos that are not the accident aircraft, I guess they do it to feel important.

 

[musicFunsun]

View attachment 839389 View attachment 839390 View attachment 839391 At least it was quick
184 mph into a hillside

LAPD and LASD wouldn’t fly today in that
Visibility
If first responders with thousands more hours than other pilots won’t fly in those conditions, you know it’s not worth the risk.

Sad deal but avoidable

I’m fortunate to know pilots of all three birds above. They would only go into that weather on a rescue and with much more tech at their disposal, still would be a difficult operation

I truly appreciate your posts, so often the insight you provide means way more than anything the media try’s to say. That said, it’s really sad for all of families and fans.

 

[4Waters]

Happened along Las Virgines in Calabasas just south of the 101fwy

To update my post now that more info is available, RIP to the others involved and my thoughts go out to all the families.

 

[hallett21]

I’m wondering if they were shooting for the sheriffs helipad off of lost hills?


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[Racer56]

I’m wondering if they were shooting for the sheriffs helipad off of lost hills?

I think they were going to Camarillo.

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[SkyDirtWaterguy]

Another senseless accident that could’ve been avoided. They were scud running from SNA all the way north to BUR then west over VNY then south to pick up the 101 fwy to fly west to Camarillo and hit the hills. They could’ve flown IFR straight to Camarillo and flew an Approach. Or, while they were holding for 15 min get an IFR clearance. Instead the pilot made some bad decisions. Celebrities or even regular people climb in these planes or helicopters all the time and put trust in the pilot that they will be safe. A lot of the time they have no clue who is up there flying them around. Not long ago Dale Jr was almost killed while the pilots made huge errors. A few days ago 4 people were killed taking of from Corona airport because they were overweight. Flying is risky business but can be a lot of fun and rewarding when done safely and properly. Sometimes things happen that cannot be avoided. Be careful out there when you climb in an airplane with someone and know the risks. This was another unfortunate accident that could have been avoided.

 

[Cdog]

He & his family live 3 doors down from my mom in Newport. He would always wave hi when he was out front playing catch with his kids when we were driving by.

Seemed like a nice guy. Tough breaks. Godspeed to all involved.

 

[monkeyswrench]

I don't understand the crowds gathering to mourn...not just him, but any big celebrity. That's just me though, to each their own.

I am not saddened by the loss of a great athlete named Kobe. I am saddened by the loss of a young father, who won't see his kids grow up at the dinner table. It saddens me that at least three, most likely more, families have had holes blown through them this morning. People lost parents, siblings and children today, that is sad. A ball player is a human. If his life is solely defined by a game, sorry to say, but his life bears little value to many people. What he meant to millions of fans, is really nothing compared to what each of those souls meant to their loved ones.

Mistakes may have been made by a pilot. A failure may have occurred in flight. Does not really matter, the end result is done. Tomorrow is promised no one, and no matter your wealth or status, you cannot buy time. Kobe was a year younger than me, retired with everything one could dream of. Life is a really interesting thing, with no plan...that we know.

RIP, to all souls lost this morning.

 

[rrrr]

The crowds aren't a social media phenomenon. The same thing happened in 1979, when Yankees catcher and team captain Thurman Munson died in the crash of his new Cessna Citation jet. The airplane had 180 hours on it. By all accounts, Munson worked his ass off to get his license and build time in a big piston Beechcraft Duke twin before buying the jet.

Munson made a simple, but deadly mistake on a no flaps approach, allowing the plane to get slow as he was just a few hundred yards from the runway. He didn't have enough experience to account for the slow spool up time of the jet engines, being used to the instant response of the big 380 HP turbocharged Lycoming engines in the Duke.

The Citation crashed in a wooded area less than ¼ mile from the runway threshold. Munson was trapped in the wreckage with a broken spine. Paralyzed and helpless, he died in the post-crash fire.

 

[RiverDave]

I don’t follow sports at all, but even I know his name.. and I couldn’t list off any modern basketball players to save my life.

some people are bigger than the game. Seems like he was one of those that rose above it

 

[WhatExit?]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/26/investing/kobe-bryant-business-legacy/index.html

 

[yz450mm]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/26/investing/kobe-bryant-business-legacy/index.html

damn, that's rough.

 

[yz450mm]

That's the same LiveATC.net recording I linked above, with video showing the helicopter ground track and subtitles. The repeated circling that shows on the radar ground track is 2EX holding clear of the Burbank airport Class C (the positive ATC control area). It's possible to transition around, under, or over the Class C, but only when in contact with ATC and conforming to their instructions.

2EX had successfully transitioned through the Burbank Class C, and was transitioning the Van Nuys Class C when the crash occurred. Rather than traveling north of the Van Nuys airport as instructed, he inexplicably turned south, and then east, into sharply rising terrain. He may have done so to stay clear of dense ground fog and instrument conditions.

I believe the video posted elsewhere (you may see it in other threads or websites) that shows a helicopter spiraling into the ground and exploding due to an apparent tail rotor failure is not 2EX. It's common for people to post aircraft crash videos that are not the accident aircraft, I guess they do it to feel important.

I remember hearing the radio traffic when Mercy Air 2 found the side of a mountain in Hesperia in 2006, and it was absolutely gut wrenching. We simply couldn't understand how something like that could happen. if I remember right, it was kind of similar circumstances. VFR from the hospital in San Bernardino, then low visibility going up the pass. They were so close to making it over the top, then made contact on a hillside right below a powerline tower.

I did a ride-along with CHP H-80 in 2006, and we flew wherever the hell they wanted. VV to ONT, to March for lunch, to Barstow, then home. I was in on comms, they didn't say anything on the radio other than to announce what they were about to do when approaching the airport. We flew from the high desert directly over Arrowhead and the mountains, and when we dropped over Devore, it was breathtaking. Why did Mercy follow the fwy rather than go up and over?

To the rotor wing pilots, why are these pilots not making altitude their friend? I understand that there are flight corridors that have to be maintained, but if they lose visual , why aren't they pulling collective and getting above the highest point in their immediate area or flight path?

 

[the510]

RIP.

 

[FreeBird236]

I was stunned on my first post, just wanted to say what a tragedy it was and prayers to all the families, truly a sad day.

 

[Old Texan]

My question, why were they given clearance to even take off with the fog as bad as it was??????? Does the FAA not require the airport tower to ground private aircraft in these situations? There was no emergency nor need for that helicopter to take off, yet it did.

I'm not throwing blame on this terrible tragedy, but from what I see, it was easily preventable by just staying on the ground for an hour or two.

I've know many pilots over the years, and the majority would not fly in those conditions as they realized the danger was not worth taking a chance. We had a local guy that did well with his business. It allowed him to fulfill his passion to fly. He learned and became skilled. Yet his aggressive attack to life was his downfall in the end.

He bought the plane of hios dreams and flew it from Houston to Brownsville for an airshow of some sort. When it came time to fly back, real bad weather set in over the entire Gulf Coast. The guy was actually excited as he felt he had his chance in the new plane to use his instrument training and fly through bad weather. He was warned byveteran pilots not to chance things, especially by himself. He did not listen. A friend of his and mine warned him. Our friend was an accomplished pilot there with his father who was a long time commercial pilot. Both almost begged the guy to wait things out, yet he was to stubborn and proud to listen.

Probably 45 minutes into his return flight, radio contact was lost and both the guy and his plane were never seen again. It took a couple years, but his brother with the help of a TX Congressman was able to get priority information from the Naval base in Corpus showing the plane's flight path and approximately where it went down in the GoM. A preventable tragedy that happened because of an guy that succeeded in life by working hard and felt almost immortal. A good man that made a horrible decision.

Why Kobe's helicopter took off yesterday, I do not know.....But someone made a bad decision. Sorry for the long story, I'm just sad to see innocent lives lost for no reason.

 

[randyjet]

Was a rapist that paid off the victim. They released the name of the victim and tore her up went after her in media we all know the reality of it. He was nothing more than an overpaid POS really nothing saint like sorry I don't forget the bad so easy.

 

[Yellowboat]

Helios have svfr rules that allow them to fly vfr when an airplane could not. Its a very long subject that is more than enough to put anyone to sleep.


The real question is was the guy ifr rated and how current was he?

There really are only 4 possibilities of this crash
1 mechaincal issue
2 ran out of gas
3 major pilot error
4 pilot not rated/ current/ experienced for imc/ifr.


I think it is sad that 9 people lost thier lives. I could careless whp those 9 people were. I am just hoping its not another. "Aalihyha" aircraft crash.
For those that dont remember, it was a cessna 404. Where the pilot took off 700# and 1 extra passenger then the plane was rated for. ( there was speciation it was take off now or losse your job deal, but never confirmed) the pilot also was not rated to fly said aircraft amd had 100s of hours fraudulent added to his log. There was also traces of coke as he had been partying with the crew. Plane got to 200' nosed down and killed all on board

 

[monkeyswrench]

Rotor craft question: Is 160+ knots moving really fast for a craft like that? I figure they don't have the stall speed issue of a fixed wing. Kind of wonder if they were trying to make up for lost time for the circling outside the valley. Have not heard what time the crash was as opposed to what time the tournament started.
A lot of car accidents happen because people are in a rush, could this have been the same thing?

 

[Yellowboat]

Rotor craft question: Is 160+ knots moving really fast for a craft like that? I figure they don't have the stall speed issue of a fixed wing. Kind of wonder if they were trying to make up for lost time for the circling outside the valley. Have not heard what time the crash was as opposed to what time the tournament started.
A lot of car accidents happen because people are in a rush, could this have been the same thing?

160 kn is very fast for a helio.

 

[JDKRXW]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/26/investing/kobe-bryant-business-legacy/index.html

That's an awesome father/daughter clip.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Kobe just received a well deserved Academy Award this past Oscars. Not much scandal beyond the Kobe Dick incident.

"MSNBC Anchor Denies Using N-Word During Kobe Bryant Report
MSNBC anchor Alison Morris responded to a viral video on Sunday, trying to explain a vocal flub during a report on the death of former NBA star Kobe Bryant that many on social media took to be the N-word.

Not long after the news of Bryant’s death in a helicopter crash broke, Morris told MSNBC viewers that Bryant was “perfectly cast” on the Los Angeles Lakers, except she stumbled over the name of the team. Many believe Morris uttered the N-word but she said that is simply not the case.

“Earlier today, while reporting on the tragic news of Kobe Bryant’s passing, I unfortunately stuttered on air, combining the names of the Knicks and the Lakers to say ‘Nakers,'” Morris tweeted later on Sunday. “Please know I did not & would NEVER use a racist term. I apologize for the confusion this caused."
Yahoo News

i heard that broadcast she said the n word.

 

[JDKRXW]

To the rotor wing pilots, why are these pilots not making altitude their friend? I understand that there are flight corridors that have to be maintained, but if they lose visual , why aren't they pulling collective and getting above the highest point in their immediate area or flight path?

Mentioned by 530RL above (I think).
Scud Running
A pilot sets out on a flight with a plan, and makes little 'adjustments' along the way in an effort to stick to the plan.
After enough of these adjustments, you can easily fall behind what's actually happening to the aircraft.
From speculation I've heard, some pretty experienced people think the pilot was attempting a 180 back (turning around, back to the direction he was coming from) but turned into the hillside, not away from it.