I bought a boat last night and it’s pink

[LargeOrangeFont]

Could have fooled me. Like you have said many times. When we started loosing blue collar jobs, then we have a down turn.

People are still spending like crazy and new home sells are selling very well.

Yes boat builders are busy, cause a lot of them can’t produce 1 boat a month. Keeping people waiting in line.

We are in a recession by every historical metric.

So is the position you are taking is that all these boat MFGs are surviving on 5- 6 boats a year and they won’t be able to find 5-6 customers to keep afloat?

Seems to me that will bouy new boat prices because there is no supply….. like it has for the last 10 years..

 

[counterpart7]

Here’s a solid entry level performance boat. Wish more MFGs would list base prices like this.

25' V Bottom - INTERCEPTOR

sjd.640.myftpupload.com

 

[Racer56]

A Hallett with "classic line's and gel" is an old man's boat. Who is going to lay down big bucks for a brand new Hallett that looks like it was built in the 90's? 50+ crowd, maybe 60+ crowd.

If you have one built, don't forget the Teak and Holly floor's. Got to keep the 90's era vibe going!

 

[retaocleg]

Here’s a solid entry level performance boat. Wish more MFGs would list base prices like this.

25' V Bottom - INTERCEPTOR

sjd.640.myftpupload.com

says 90k base, but under upgrades is the 300 outboard.........so not sure it is 90k with a 300 and loaded, like the pics

 

[retaocleg]

open or closed bow? walk through or crawl under mid cabin? we could always build blank as a closed, convert if someone wants an open?

 

[Done-it-again]

We are in a recession by every historical metric.

So is the position you are taking is that all these boat MFGs are surviving on 5- 6 boats a year and they won’t be able to find 5-6 customers to keep afloat?

Seems to me that will bouy new boat prices because there is no supply….. like it has for the last 10 years..

And every metric had trump losing in 17’. I also don’t doubt that we aren’t at the razors edge. Media might be saying this or that, just no one seems to be worried. But still look around, people are spending MONEY any way they can.

Cars still have market adjustments on them. Recreational vehicles still have premiums. A new Polaris being built for 40-50k. New homes selling at a decent rate. Restaurants are still very busy.

I would say majority of the west coast builders are only building 8-10 a year. Then again I could be WAY wrong. I’m sure they make some money with service and upgrades on existing boats. If that’s the case their margins need to be higher to pay their over head and I get that. But if the money tightens up, who’s going to survive?

If a mold is not being used its worthless to you unless you find away. If your best mold is super busy you can’t make any more than it can produce (unless you have a 2nd). So builders are capped what they can get out of the door currently.

When the money tightens prices on new boats will change and other options will come available (like bare hulls, semi rigged,etc).

 

[Shlbyntro]

open or closed bow? walk through or crawl under mid cabin? we could always build blank as a closed, convert if someone wants an open?

thats what Im saying, build a 210 or 240 with maybe a 175 or 200 OB as the base motor which will likely be cheaper than a sterndrive. Price it at $80,099 and make your money on upselling the options.

buyers love seeing a low base price because it makes them feel better about spending the money. 95% will never stick to that base model though and will easily justify adding options in their heads. The options on the upsell are limitless with todays electronics, glass cockpits, stereo, upholstery, etc etc.....

For that 5% though that are stretching for that first custom boat of their own and want a quality name on the side of it, you will have customers for life. likely a lot of that other 95% too.

 

[Runs2rch]

says 90k base, but under upgrades is the 300 outboard.........so not sure it is 90k with a 300 and loaded, like the pics

Best part about Interceptor is the interiors. I know you know why haha.

The rest of the boat not so much.

 

[Runs2rch]

thats what Im saying, build a 210 or 240 with maybe a 175 or 200 OB as the base motor which will likely be cheaper than a sterndrive. Price it at $80,099 and make your money on upselling the options.

buyers love seeing a low base price because it makes them feel better about spending the money. 95% will never stick to that base model though and will easily justify adding options in their heads. The options on the upsell are limitless with todays electronics, glass cockpits, stereo, upholstery, etc etc.....

For that 5% though that are stretching for that first custom boat of their own and want a quality name on the side of it, you will have customers for life. likely a lot of that other 95% too.

A 210 wouldn't work with a 175 or 200. Let alone a 24 haha

You are onto something though.

I always thought partnering with a reputable engine builder and offer the same warranty as Mercury. Easy to build 350hp EFI LS/SBC or 500hp EFI BBC for half the cost of Mercury with equal or better parts.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

And every metric had trump losing in 17’. I also don’t doubt that we aren’t at the razors edge. Media might be saying this or that, just no one seems to be worried. But still look around, people are spending MONEY any way they can.

Cars still have market adjustments on them. Recreational vehicles still have premiums. A new Polaris being built for 40-50k. New homes selling at a decent rate. Restaurants are still very busy.

I would say majority of the west coast builders are only building 8-10 a year. Then again I could be WAY wrong. I’m sure they make some money with service and upgrades on existing boats. If that’s the case their margins need to be higher to pay their over head and I get that. But if the money tightens up, who’s going to survive?

If a mold is not being used its worthless to you unless you find away. If your best mold is super busy you can’t make any more than it can produce (unless you have a 2nd). So builders are capped what they can get out of the door currently.

When the money tightens prices on new boats will change and other options will come available (like bare hulls, semi rigged,etc).

If what you say is true it is even easier for a builder to make it when shit hits the fan.. they only need 8-10 customers. The fewer boats they are structured around.. the easier it is for them to survive.

That is my entire point.

 

[Runs2rch]

If what you say is true it is even easier for a builder to make it when shit hits the fan.. they only need 8-10 customers. The fewer boats they are structured around.. the easier it is for them to survive.

That is my entire point.

Manufacturers survived the crash mainly on service. Like you said look at how many boats were built between 08-16.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

thats what Im saying, build a 210 or 240 with maybe a 175 or 200 OB as the base motor which will likely be cheaper than a sterndrive. Price it at $80,099 and make your money on upselling the options.

buyers love seeing a low base price because it makes them feel better about spending the money. 95% will never stick to that base model though and will easily justify adding options in their heads. The options on the upsell are limitless with todays electronics, glass cockpits, stereo, upholstery, etc etc.....

For that 5% though that are stretching for that first custom boat of their own and want a quality name on the side of it, you will have customers for life. likely a lot of that other 95% too.

The answer and example to your question then is the Barron 190s how many of those are out there? 5? 10? In 4 years?

It’s not an idea that has legs.
Bigger question is why would Nordic bother making boats that dillute their Hallett brand at lower margins?

Every single time a high end car maker makes a car to compete in the entry level on price.. it sucks.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Manufacturers survived the crash mainly on service. Like you said look at how many boats were built between 08-16.

Some still are… I’m looking at Ultra and others here.

Custom boat mfgs were also structured for quantity, before 08, not high margin boats.

Now none are structured that way, they pump few out a year and it is why boat cost is more than double.

 

[Runs2rch]

Some still are… I’m looking at Ultra and others here.

Custom boat mfgs were also structured for quantity, before 08, not high margin boats.

Now none are structured that way, they pump few out a year and it is why boat cost is more than double.

Seems in Havasu finding quality workers is very difficult as well.

 

[Hammer]

A Hallett with "classic line's and gel" is an old man's boat. Who is going to lay down big bucks for a brand new Hallett that looks like it was built in the 90's? 50+ crowd, maybe 60+ crowd.

If you have one built, don't forget the Teak and Holly floor's. Got to keep the 90's era vibe going!

Well the 275 was built and fell on its face because it was modernized and didn’t look like a Hallett.

The gel scheme doesn’t need to be 90’s , but it can’t be a Nordic gel scheme like the 275 was.

I may be partial, but my gel scheme looks timeless to me. I don’t think it looks like an old man’s boat.

 

[clarence]

Most entry-level boat buyers have entry-level boat manufacturer knowledge.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

A Hallett with "classic line's and gel" is an old man's boat. Who is going to lay down big bucks for a brand new Hallett that looks like it was built in the 90's? 50+ crowd, maybe 60+ crowd.

If you have one built, don't forget the Teak and Holly floor's. Got to keep the 90's era vibe going!

This..

 

[Runs2rch]

Well the 275 was built and fell on its face because it was modernized and didn’t look like a Hallett.

The gel scheme doesn’t need to be 90’s , but it can’t be a Nordic gel scheme like the 275 was.

I may be partial, but my gel scheme looks timeless to me. I don’t think it looks like an old man’s boat.
View attachment 1234463

View attachment 1234464

Plenty of 275's have been built. It is a great functional boat. Just needs to be called a 275 Nordic.

 

[Hammer]

Plenty of 275's have been built. It is a great functional boat. Just needs to be called a 275 Nordic.

I agree, it’s a great, functional boat. I only know of the two Randy had built. One that had Nordic interior and the second one with Hallett interior. Unfortunately it has no link to the heritage of Hallett except for the badge on the side.

 

[Hammer]

This..

Do you know the difference between a 90’s Hallett and a 2000’s Hallett?

We aren’t talking 90’s styling… they aren’t even close to the same… gel schemes and interior are entirely different.

The hull styling even changed from the 90’s to 2000’s…

 

[Runs2rch]

I agree, it’s a great, functional boat. I only know of the two Randy had built. One that had Nordic interior and the second one with Hallett interior. Unfortunately it has no link to the heritage of Hallett except for the badge on the side.

I know of 3 more. 2 565 boats and one with a 600. So 5 or 6 total built?

 

[Shlbyntro]

The answer and example to your question then is the Barron 190s how many of those are out there? 5? 10? In 4 years?

It’s not an idea that has legs.
Bigger question is why would Nordic bother making boats that dillute their Hallett brand at lower margins?

Every single time a high end car maker makes a car to compete in the entry level on price.. it sucks.

Difference is not a lot of people know what a Barron is.

i get what youre saying with mucking up the waters, but I dont think it applies to the 210 as it is virtually an unbuilt boat for the last 15 years.

 

[Hammer]

I know of 3 more. 2 565 boats and one with a 600. So 5 or 6 total built?

Sounds about right. I wonder how that 600 boat runs. That is a great engine package for that boat.

 

[Racer56]

Well the 275 was built and fell on its face because it was modernized and didn’t look like a Hallett.

The gel scheme doesn’t need to be 90’s , but it can’t be a Nordic gel scheme like the 275 was.

I may be partial, but my gel scheme looks timeless to me. I don’t think it looks like an old man’s boat.
View attachment 1234463

View attachment 1234464

Beautiful boat.

The reason the 275 is not selling big numbers isn't because of it's styling. 90% of people walking into Nordic or any of the other West coast boat builders want a Deck boat.

 

[Runs2rch]

Sounds about right. I wonder how that 600 boat runs. That is a great engine package for that boat.

I would think a perfect 80mph family setup.

 

[Runs2rch]

Beautiful boat.

The reason the 275 is not selling big numbers isn't because of it's styling. 90% of people walking into Nordic or any of the other West coast boat builders want a Deck boat.

Agree on deck boats outselling V bottoms. Cost is a major factor though as well.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Difference is not a lot of people know what a Barron is.

i get what youre saying with mucking up the waters, but I dont think it applies to the 210 as it is virtually an unbuilt boat for the last 15 years.

Again that’s the point. Nordic is not in the business if discounting their brands to compete with a brand no one is familiar with. They are not an entry level boat manufacturer.

You can go order a Cobra 230 Razor today with a ton of standard options and a 300 HP V8 I/O for like $90k.

You are asking them to cut the price of a boat they already don’t want to make nearly in half, when they can make a $250k deckboat with more margins.

All im saying is that there is 0 reason for them to work harder for less money. None of us would do that.

 

[Runs2rch]

Again that’s the point. Nordic is not in the business if discounting their brands to compete with a brand no one is familiar with. They are not an entry level boat manufacturer.

You can go order a Cobra 230 Razor today with a ton of standard options and a 300 HP V8 I/O for like $90k.

You are asking them to cut the price of a boat they already don’t want to make nearly in half, when they can make a $250k deckboat with more margins.

All im saying is that there is 0 reason for them to work harder for less money. None of us would do that.

90k for that boat is just dumb.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

90k for that boat is just dumb.

The Barron? The Cobra or the mythical discounted 210? The Barron is probably over $90k now. The $80k was the 2020 price.

5 years ago the Cobra was $65. The new Cobras are super nice.. but for $25k I could totally re gel and re interior what I have .

 

[Hammer]

Beautiful boat.

The reason the 275 is not selling big numbers isn't because of it's styling. 90% of people walking into Nordic or any of the other West coast boat builders want a Deck boat.

Thank you!

I agree with you on the deck boat. Those and toons are the hot ticket for consumers. Followed by wakeboard boats. Hallett offers a 285 deck, however, I will admit it would not be my first choice in a deck boat if I was In the market.

As I said before, In my opinion you need to get the old men who love their 90’s Hallett into a new Hallett, or get their kids into a new Hallett.

Unfortunately, that old man that paid 35k for a brand new 240 off the showroom floor at the LA boat show in 1990 can’t stomach buying a new Hallett for 6 figures. My dad is that guy. He’s also on the back end of his boating lifestyle at 73. He’s not buying a new boat, but I might…

That leads me to the next generation of Hallett owners, people like me who grew up on a Hallett and want to continue the family tradition and heritage that is Hallett. That is who the brand needs to be catered and marketed to. 30-40 year olds who can afford a new boat and know what a Hallett is. I believe that will bring more new customers through the front door.

Hallett needs to hit the social media marketing hard too. Get people into knowing what a Hallett is… They are behind in the times of marketing in general. If you have more social media presence and put Halletts in peoples faces it will bring new potential customers through the door asking about them.

 

[Runs2rch]

The Barron? The Cobra or the mythical discounted 210? The Barron is probably over $90k now. The $80k was the 2020 price.

5 years ago the Cobra was $65. The new Cobras are super nice.. but for $25k I could totally re gel and re interior what I have .

Haha Yes to all of them.

 

[Shlbyntro]

Again that’s the point. Nordic is not in the business if discounting their brands to compete with a brand no one is familiar with. They are not an entry level boat manufacturer.

You can go order a Cobra 230 Razor today with a ton of standard options and a 300 HP V8 I/O for like $90k.

You are asking them to cut the price of a boat they already don’t want to make nearly in half, when they can make a $250k deckboat with more margins.

All im saying is that there is 0 reason for them to work harder for less money. None of us would do that.

I would argue that keeping the brand relevant is a damn good reason. What happens when the old gaurd of boaters age out and are no longer buying boats.

Hallett and Nordic both are around today because of the reputation they built off of their attainable boats of yesteryear. That reputation will fade with the people from those times if they dont have a current day, relevant, and attainable offering today.

The Boxter and Cayenne are the reasons Porsche is still around today, I am merely suggesting the boating world equivelant.

 

[Done-it-again]

If what you say is true it is even easier for a builder to make it when shit hits the fan.. they only need 8-10 customers. The fewer boats they are structured around.. the easier it is for them to survive.

That is my entire point.

The issue is when shit hits the fan there is NO 8-10 boats being built. Maybe a 1/4 or that. Overhead stays mostly the same except the reduction of a few employees.

So what should builders do? increase their margins to survive? That’s not going to help, so you would need the change the business model and build smaller boats that can attracted the majority of buyers to “ hopefully” make a sale. Not just sit back and wait for someone with deep pockets in struggling economy.

 

[240Hallett]

As I said before, In my opinion you need to get the old men who love their 90’s Hallett into a new Hallett, or get their kids into a new Hallett.

That’s a good idea! I’m currently looking for sponsors.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I would argue that keeping the brand relevant is a damn good reason. What happens when the old gaurd of boaters age out and are no longer buying boats.

Hallett and Nordic both are around today because of the reputation they built off of their attainable boats of yesteryear. That reputation will fade with the people from those times if they dont have a current day, relevant, and attainable offering today.

The Boxter and Cayenne are the reasons Porsche is still around today, I am merely suggesting the boating world equivelant.

I agree and in the example above regarding Porsche, the Boxster wasn’t priced like a S2000 and Cayenne wasn't priced like It’s VW cousins to keep the brand elevated.

I completely get what the ask is. A custom boat MFG simply isn’t going to do it because there is no way for them to win in that market.

I’m suggesting a custom boat MFG has 0 reason to make more cheaper boats that exposes their business to risk vs building fewer more expensive boats for more well off clients. The evidence for that is everything we’ve seen out of customs boat builders since 2009. Making cheaper, entry level boats is going backwards and is less profitable.

 

[Shlbyntro]

I agree and in the example above regarding Porsche, the Boxster wasn’t priced like a S2000 and Cayenne wasn't priced like It’s VW cousins to keep the brand elevated.

I completely get what the ask is. A custom boat MFG simply isn’t going to do it because there is no way for them to win in that market.

I’m suggesting a custom boat MFG has 0 reason to make more cheaper boats that exposes their business to risk vs building fewer more expensive boats for more well off clients. The evidence for that is everything we’ve seen out of customs boat builders since 2009. Making cheaper, entry level boats is going backwards and is less profitable.

$80k isnt exactly entry level. Go price a 20' Bayliner or SeaRay. Mark my words, Cobra and ICB will be the Halletts and Nordics of tomorrow if they dont protect their market.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The issue is when shit hits the fan there is NO 8-10 boats being built. Maybe a 1/4 or that. Overhead stays mostly the same except the reduction of a few employees.

So what should builders do? increase their margins to survive? That’s not going to help, so you would need the change the business model and build smaller boats that can attracted the majority of buyers to “ hopefully” make a sale. Not just sit back and wait for someone with deep pockets in struggling economy.

There will still be well off people buying boats in the next recession. It’s easier to sell one discounted $300k boat to someone with money than 6 $50k boats to poors. And that is a hell of a lot less time and labor.

You’d have to be really high on resin fumes to try to go after the segment of people hurting the most in a recession and try to sell them new boats. That’s why many of them folded in 2009, and why the industry is where it is today with fewer high end boats that have more margin in them.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

$80k isnt exactly entry level. Go price a 20' Bayliner or SeaRay. Mark my words, Cobra and ICB will be the Halletts and Nordics of tomorrow if they dont protect their market.

We already covered entry level. Go to Bass Pro Shop and buy a 18’ Tahoe with a 115 for $32k.

“Regular” people are already priced out of new Eliminators, Howard’s, Halletts etc.

 

[Jay Dub]

I know of 3 more. 2 565 boats and one with a 600. So 5 or 6 total built?

nice boats. Nordic 275. It's not a Hallett

 

[Shlbyntro]

We already covered entry level. Go to Bass Pro Shop and buy a 18’ Tahoe with a 115 for $32k.

“Regular” people are already priced out of new Eliminators, Howard’s, Halletts etc.

So there you go, ATTAINABLE. Not competing with S2000s.

 

[Jay Dub]

I would argue that keeping the brand relevant is a damn good reason. What happens when the old gaurd of boaters age out and are no longer buying boats.

Hallett and Nordic both are around today because of the reputation they built off of their attainable boats of yesteryear. That reputation will fade with the people from those times if they dont have a current day, relevant, and attainable offering today.

The Boxter and Cayenne are the reasons Porsche is still around today, I am merely suggesting the boating world equivelant.

I agree 100%. Same case I made with the BMW 3 and Mercedes C

 

[counterpart7]

I agree 100%. Same case I made with the BMW 3 and Mercedes C

Shhhh, those billion dollar companies have no idea what they are doing bringing loyal customers to their brand... The should really take note of what the WC custom boat builders have been doing since 2009!

 

[Ace in the Hole]

There will still be well off people buying boats in the next recession. It’s easier to sell one discounted $300k boat to someone with money than 6 $50k boats to poors. And that is a hell of a lot less time and labor.

You’d have to be really high on resin fumes to try to go after the segment of people hurting the most in a recession and try to sell them new boats. That’s why many of them folded in 2009, and why the industry is where it is today with fewer high end boats that have more margin in them.

That market dried up for a while didn't it not post 08? Took some manufacturers down with it did it not?

The issue you are skipping is how often are those $2-400k boat buyers buy a boat. A lot of the time it is a ONCE in a lifetime purchase that they have worked up to... and a lot of those purchases are about brand loyalty and working up through different models over the years. Yea you have some people with a lot of disposable income but in a recession they pull back greatly hoarding cash. Prime interest is something like 8% so if you want to keep your staff working and boats going out the door the 21-24 sub 100k range will be back in play when you need to make sales...

The first boat that I bought on my own post 08 was an (I think) 89 mastercraft..I paid $3500 for it... Ive had around 10 since then. With 2 exceptions (one being my current x-flight), every one of those was sub $50k... I was a "poor" as you call it...but I got my friends and family on the water with what I could afford at the time. I have a deep brand loyalty to SeaRay for filling that niche and making "nice" boats affordable to the price range I could afford, and be able to upgrade through... I have owned 5 of them at this point....from my 185 sport (best boat I ever owned) to a 33' cruiser. Hell MaK is the product of a 270 SeaRay... The point being is having an entry level boat brings people to the brand who will continue to purchase long term as time goes on....only catering to the handful buying the big boats is not a good plan for long term success... Brand loyalty doesn't come from the top.... You have to have something...

Johnny Morris made a fortune selling small aluminum boats to people who eventually bought bigger fiberglass boats, and high dollar toons.... He figured it out...and it wasn't by giving the finger to the "poor's" and cutting them from the market....

 

[RiverDave]

On to its new home

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

On to its new home

View attachment 1235303 View attachment 1235304

So long "Pinkie".... heck, you didn't have that long enough to shed a tear.

 

[Shlbyntro]

So long "Pinkie".... heck, you didn't have that long enough to shed a tear.

I dont even think ole RD popped "pinkie's" cherry

 

[RiverDave]

I dont even think ole RD popped "pinkie's" cherry

We ran it once.. lol.

Back in the market!

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

We ran it once.. lol.

Back in the market!

Mustve been the poor stereo

 

[RiverDave]

Went and looked at this earlier today

 

[Outdrive1]

This is Exactly what I'm talking about!

If I'm going buy an 50k entry level boat, I'd much rather have one that says Hallett on it than Yamaha.

Maybe think outside the existing box and come up with a whole new solution?

My neighbor has the first Nordic Vector. He’s 140 in it. He told me Thane said they lost their ass building it.