Honest opinion w/o the bullshit.......

[Hullbilly]

Not at all... But why not treat guns like cars?

The operator has proficiency training, testing, licensing, and insurance. There is an agreed upon minimum standard one must meet before legally operating a car.

The car is serialized, and registered.

Drunk driving is way down because of education, enforcement, and broad liability. (Yes you can be held accountable for over-serving a patron at a bar...)

Car manufacturers are responsible for implementing safety standards to the highest state of technology...

So yea make the guns are like cars argument... I am 100% with you on that.

ohhhh really what about the millons and millions with no license or insurance....dumbass

 

[Grandpa mac]

Some very interesting and good feedback. I posted this because I was reading the Wiki background on Mark Kelly and it was his statement about these type of background checks. I added the no s/n and dollar amount portion.

In January 2013, Kelly and Giffords started a political action committee called Americans for Responsible Solutions. The mission of the organization is to promote solutions with elected officials and the general public. The couple states that it supports the Second Amendment while promoting responsible gun ownership and "keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous people like criminals, terrorists, and the mentally ill."[46] Current gun laws allow for private sellers to legally sell guns without a background check, creating a loophole that provides criminals and the mentally ill easy access to guns.[citation needed] Kelly said on Fox News on March 31, 2013, that "any bill that does not include a universal background check is a mistake, It's the most common sense thing we can do to prevent criminals and the mentally ill from having access to weapons

Obviously Kelly has passion for this issue as he nearly lost his wife from an armed loon. I think Kelly is the kind of person that is smart enough and has the record to make critical intelligent decisions in the heat of the moment giving him credibility. Though the thread has comments that what he thinks and what I think are completely against the pro gun folks and 2A, it still carries merit as to finding a solution on keeping guns out of the hands on mentally unstable buyers.

Background checks will not keep guns out of the hands of criminals as they are determined and the law is meaningless to them. That is obvious and shouldn't be used to fight common sense laws meant to work towards dealing with the mental illness issue. Folks, we pro gun people have all said, it is not the guns, but the mental instability problems that need to be addressed. So how do we isolate that issue and work to solve it?

To identify the mentally ill who have potential to "go off", we need to find means to weed them out from responsible gun owners. But how? Where do we start? Would not background info at least give us a starting point?

Rather than keep trying to argue the same points over and over, I think the time has come to give consideration to finding solutions to these increasing gun violence incidents. The problem will not go away and with the new crew in Congress we're already seeing the future is bringing folks into power that will get the political advantage to take our guns away. We have to fight them while we also have to solve the gun violence issue which fuels their fire. Standing on the "no change" to existing laws will eventually produce a loss. Reducing the issues leading to violence prior to losing our rights is the prudent approach in my mind.

Gun ownership is a Constitutional "right" and one I am not willing to chance being taken away by the anti left. The only way to assure that right is maintained, is to make it as clear as possible responsible gun owners are part of fighting gun violence and ownership abuse by mentally unstable persons causing that violence. How we do that is to be determined and sitting on our hands and saying, "no more laws," is not a winning hand, IMHO.

Another great post.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Excellent post. Thank you.

Clearly there are some issues. The problem lies with how the Progressive left see's fit to address them. Taking all guns from all people would be their panacea. They only need a few more school shootings to sell it to the masses.

How can taking my legal firearms away from me, or making them impossible to buy or transport or take out to use, make a single human being safer?

The left will use tragedy to sell their agenda, whenever and wherever possible. The bottom line is, a free and open society will, by definition, be a dangerous society. Our very freedoms offer bad actors room in which to do their deeds.

"Never let a crisis go to waste, eh".

 

[Grandpa mac]

ohhhh really what about the millons and millions with no license or insurance....dumbass

And some people taking medicine will still die, ergo medicine is useless and we should get rid of it.

 

[Grandpa mac]

Clearly there are some issues. The problem lies with how the Progressive left see's fit to address them. Taking all guns from all people would be their panacea. They only need a few more school shootings to sell it to the masses.

How can taking my legal firearms away from me, or making them impossible to buy or transport or take out to use, make a single human being safer?

The left will use tragedy to sell their agenda, whenever and wherever possible. The bottom line is, a free and open society will, by definition, be a dangerous society. Our very freedoms offer bad actors room in which to do their deeds.

"Never let a crisis go to waste, eh".

I have long felt that the NRA should be taking a leadership role in reducing gun violence, instead they are advocates for the industry and maximimizing sales and profits- including those $119 Jimenez pistols (yeah, I bought one out of curiosity and it is shit). Universal background checks are a no brainer. Allowing smart gun technology that uses biometrics to ensure only gun’s owner can fire would be a huge boon to police, school resource officers, gun owners with children, and well everyone. Both are ideas that originated from people who know guns (and now opposed by the NRA). Get “good” gun owners involved in fixing the epidemic of gun violence and maybe Nancy Pelosi will step back.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

I have long felt that the NRA should be taking a leadership role in reducing gun violence, instead they are advocates for the industry and maximimizing sales and profits- including those $119 Jimenez pistols (yeah, I bought one out of curiosity and it is shit). Universal background checks are a no brainer. Allowing smart gun technology that uses biometrics to ensure only gun’s owner can fire would be a huge boon to police, school resource officers, gun owners with children, and well everyone. Both are ideas that originated from people who know guns (and now opposed by the NRA). Get “good” gun owners involved in fixing the epidemic of gun violence and maybe Nancy Pelosi will step back.

Smart gun technology...Pfft. Wont work and its yet another incremental step in moving towards total removal. Nancy Pelosi will never stop. To the left, its a movement. Take abortion, no one is after RvW, yet NYC goes a step beyond and creates room for "post term abortions". As with abortion, they will never stop in their quest for total disarming America. If you deny that, you are being intellectually dishonest.

The NRA fights as they do because of the aggressive nature of their opposition. They can never negotiate from a good faith position, simply because the Progressives never will.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

The Tokarev (and Makarov) pistols are a functioning auto-loader. Poor hand feel, poor down-range performance and only will eat ammo of their liking. Constant stove pipe mis-feeds.

Junk...

 

[Grandpa mac]

Smart gun technology...Pfft. Wont work and its yet another incremental step in moving towards total removal. Nancy Pelosi will never stop. To the left, its a movement. Take abortion, no one is after RvW, yet NYC goes a step beyond and creates room for "post term abortions". As with abortion, they will never stop in their quest for total disarming America. If you deny that, you are being intellectually dishonest.

The NRA fights as they do because of the aggressive nature of their opposition. They can never negotiate from a good faith position, simply because the Progressives never will.

I’m a progressive and a gun owner. As is Mark Kelly. If you have good ideas to reduce gun violence we want to hear them.

 

[pronstar]

Not at all... But why not treat guns like cars?

The operator has proficiency training, testing, licensing, and insurance. There is an agreed upon minimum standard one must meet before legally operating a car.

The car is serialized, and registered.

Drunk driving is way down because of education, enforcement, and broad liability. (Yes you can be held accountable for over-serving a patron at a bar...)

Car manufacturers are responsible for implementing safety standards to the highest state of technology...

So yea make the guns are like cars argument... I am 100% with you on that.

My point was about restricting sales.
Your point is about licensing.

You don’t need a license to buy a car.
A convicted drunk driver, or even a criminal, can buy a car.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

I’m a progressive and a gun owner. As is Mark Kelly. If you have good ideas to reduce gun violence we want to hear them.

The real problem here is, we have a culture war going on in America. There are polar ideas on everything and America is fairly evenly divided. You will never see things my way, I will never see things your way. But that doesn't mean we need to be nasty to each other.

Take your never-ending Trump hate threads, You want him gone and are willing to accept devious and illegal processes to see him gone. I disliked Obama, likely more than you dislike Trump, yet I sat on my hands and waited for the time he would be gone. We will never agree.

Reducing gun violence; its education, keeping fathers in the home, moms at home raising kids and not at work. morals, values, patriotism. My dad pounded gun safety into me. If I displayed un-safe gun handling, he would discipline me fast and harsh. I understood these things from an early age. We always had guns around the house, they were in a glass front display wall in my pop's trophy room. I had access, I also had respect and discipline.

Our political leaders don't offer much as far as role models go. Quality, caring parenting solves many of our societies ill's.

 

[Hullbilly]

And some people taking medicine will still die, ergo medicine is useless and we should get rid of it.

Why dont we get rid of automobiles the too?

 

[SBMech]

Never, ever going to license or give up my guns to anyone. Period.

Not a single weapon I own is registered anywhere except possibly from the original purchase recipt.

I would never sell one of my guns, never hawk one, never never never. I have loaned them many times on hunting trips or out shooting, but never to anyone I would not trust with my life. That's a pretty small list.

Nothing you can say, enact, force upon honest citizens will EVER change a single fucking thing.

The truth is you can NEVER EVER STOP CRAZY. People/Criminals/ Terrorists will ALWAYS be able to get their hands on whatever they need.

Personally, I want to see the exact things nganga proposes, it's what taught us all how to handle and care for firearms. Passing that on to children is the most important thing you could ever do to curb gun violence IMO.

Changing the way children are raised and cared for back to a commmunity is more what American society needs, not more ways to disconnect, we need to foster reconnecting.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Never, ever going to license or give up my guns to anyone. Period.

Not a single weapon I own is registered anywhere except possibly from the original purchase recipt.

I would never sell one of my guns, never hawk one, never never never. I have loaned them many times on hunting trips or out shooting, but never to anyone I would not trust with my life. That's a pretty small list.

Nothing you can say, enact, force upon honest citizens will EVER change a single fucking thing.

The truth is you can NEVER EVER STOP CRAZY. People/Criminals/ Terrorists will ALWAYS be able to get their hands on whatever they need.

Personally, I want to see the exact things nganga proposes, it's what taught us all how to handle and care for firearms. Passing that on to children is the most important thing you could ever do to curb gun violence IMO.

Changing the way children are raised and cared for back to a commmunity is more what American society needs, not more ways to disconnect, we need to foster reconnecting.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^. But, to the left, it doesn't get them one single step closer to their utopia.

 

[SBMech]

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^. But, to the left, it doesn't get them one single step closer to their utopia.

In fact, they see us as an armed line of resistance preventing them from reaching their utopia. It's like there is crazy mixed into the water supply....

 

[500bbc]

You drooling imbecile go back to your abortion thread...its a shame your mommy did not share your views

He still has time, never too late for a late term self abortion.

 

[500bbc]

You know what else isn't (wasn't) in the constitution. A womans right to vote. You know what is (was) the fact that a black man is 3/5ths as important as a white man.

The 2A also specifically calls out "A Well Regulated Militia"

I would agree that well regulated will mean different things to different people but a form of regulation is clearly part of the 2A.

You're too fucking stupid or just a flat out liar if you don't know the purpose of this.

I'm going with liar.

 

[500bbc]

Not at all... But why not treat guns like cars?

The operator has proficiency training, testing, licensing, and insurance. There is an agreed upon minimum standard one must meet before legally operating a car.

The car is serialized, and registered.

Drunk driving is way down because of education, enforcement, and broad liability. (Yes you can be held accountable for over-serving a patron at a bar...)

Car manufacturers are responsible for implementing safety standards to the highest state of technology...

So yea make the guns are like cars argument... I am 100% with you on that.

There's no amendment to the constitution for cars you fucking idiot!

 

[squeezer]

The real problem here is, we have a culture war going on in America. There are polar ideas on everything and America is fairly evenly divided. You will never see things my way, I will never see things your way. But that doesn't mean we need to be nasty to each other.

Take your never-ending Trump hate threads, You want him gone and are willing to accept devious and illegal processes to see him gone. I disliked Obama, likely more than you dislike Trump, yet I sat on my hands and waited for the time he would be gone. We will never agree.

Reducing gun violence; its education, keeping fathers in the home, moms at home raising kids and not at work. morals, values, patriotism. My dad pounded gun safety into me. If I displayed un-safe gun handling, he would discipline me fast and harsh. I understood these things from an early age. We always had guns around the house, they were in a glass front display wall in my pop's trophy room. I had access, I also had respect and discipline.

Our political leaders don't offer much as far as role models go. Quality, caring parenting solves many of our societies ill's.

There is all kinds of common ground... The problem is NRA fueled paranoia wont even let us have the conversation.

I am as far left as anybody on this board, also own my share of weapons (six pistols, three shot guns, five rifles). I am not by any measure anti gun. I also am convinced that weapons are getting into the hands of people who should not have them. How many times a year does a toddler grab a gun from under a mattress and shoot a family member...? Too many!!! Safe transport and storage laws would minimize this. Laws with TEETH... A gun you own falls in the wrong hands and you did not have it stored properly then YOU go to jail after forfeiting all weapons and future rights. "But I need access next to my bed..." OK fine, thats what a biometric safe is for. A HUGE percentage of domestic murders are committed by guys who have been charged with abuse beforehand. Anything like this forfeits your gun rights. There is a surprising link between animal cruelty and domestic violence... make this a dis-qualifier from ownership.

There is no doubt in my mind that you and I could easily come up with a list of people who should not touch a firearm. What we couldn't do is convince the unwashed masses what to do about it.

 

[squeezer]

You're too fucking stupid or just a flat out liar if you don't know the purpose of this.

I'm going with liar.

Article I, Section. 2 [Slaves count as 3/5 persons]
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons [i.e., slaves].
Article I, Section. 9, clause 1. [No power to ban slavery until 1808]
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.
Article IV, Section. 2. [Free states cannot protect slaves]
No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.
Article V [No Constitutional Amendment to Ban Slavery Until 1808]
...No Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article.

 

[pronstar]

There is all kinds of common ground... The problem is NRA fueled paranoia wont even let us have the conversation.

I am as far left as anybody on this board, also own my share of weapons (six pistols, three shot guns, five rifles). I am not by any measure anti gun. I also am convinced that weapons are getting into the hands of people who should not have them. How many times a year does a toddler grab a gun from under a mattress and shoot a family member...? Too many!!! Safe transport and storage laws would minimize this. Laws with TEETH... A gun you own falls in the wrong hands and you did not have it stored properly then YOU go to jail after forfeiting all weapons and future rights. "But I need access next to my bed..." OK fine, thats what a biometric safe is for. A HUGE percentage of domestic murders are committed by guys who have been charged with abuse beforehand. Anything like this forfeits your gun rights. There is a surprising link between animal cruelty and domestic violence... make this a dis-qualifier from ownership.

There is no doubt in my mind that you and I could easily come up with a list of people who should not touch a firearm. What we couldn't do is convince the unwashed masses what to do about it.

So if a drunk steals my car and kills someone with it, I should go to jail?

We already prosecute people for leaving guns out where toddlers can access them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[500bbc]

Article I, Section. 2 [Slaves count as 3/5 persons]
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons [i.e., slaves].
Article I, Section. 9, clause 1. [No power to ban slavery until 1808]
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.
Article IV, Section. 2. [Free states cannot protect slaves]
No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.
Article V [No Constitutional Amendment to Ban Slavery Until 1808]
...No Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article.

I will reiterate…
You're too fucking stupid or just a flat out liar if you don't know the purpose of this.

You are a FUCKING IMBECILE.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

There is all kinds of common ground... The problem is NRA fueled paranoia wont even let us have the conversation.

I am as far left as anybody on this board, also own my share of weapons (six pistols, three shot guns, five rifles). I am not by any measure anti gun. I also am convinced that weapons are getting into the hands of people who should not have them. How many times a year does a toddler grab a gun from under a mattress and shoot a family member...? Too many!!! Safe transport and storage laws would minimize this. Laws with TEETH... A gun you own falls in the wrong hands and you did not have it stored properly then YOU go to jail after forfeiting all weapons and future rights. "But I need access next to my bed..." OK fine, thats what a biometric safe is for. A HUGE percentage of domestic murders are committed by guys who have been charged with abuse beforehand. Anything like this forfeits your gun rights. There is a surprising link between animal cruelty and domestic violence... make this a dis-qualifier from ownership.

There is no doubt in my mind that you and I could easily come up with a list of people who should not touch a firearm. What we couldn't do is convince the unwashed masses what to do about it.

Gun falls into wrong hands; Welcome to South Africa and Zambia, but only if you're white.

Biometrics; I keep a H&K P2000 in my fingerprint safe bedside. And another in my Raptor and another in my desk at work. With my son not really understanding firearms and safety, mine are all kept under lock and key of some type.

Animal cruelty; By who's definition? Am I an animal abuser simply because I "kill things for fun." (by others definition here)

Can you see what the Federal Government's definition off "kept safe" would look like?

 

[squeezer]

Gun falls into wrong hands; Welcome to South Africa and Zambia, but only if you're white.

Biometrics; I keep a H&K P9000 in my fingerprint safe bedside. And another in my Raptor and another in my desk at work. With my son not really understanding firearms and safety, mine are all kept under lock and key of some type.

Animal cruelty; By who's definition? Am I an animal abuser simply because I "kill things for fun." (by others definition here)

Can you see what the Federal Government's definition off "kept safe" would look like?

Somebody steals your Raptor and they get the weapon in the console you are free and clear because you took reasonable precaution to keep that from happening. Sombody does a smash and grab and grabs it from the glove box not so much...

Hunting is by no means animal cruelty and you know that. Skinning the neighbors dog because he was barking at night is. No need to change any thing about how its defined... Just recognize the link between it and mental state.

I think the federal definition of "kept safe"should be just like your personal definition of kept safe. You take necessary and reasonable steps to keep you son safe from harm. Why are you be willing to accept less than that level of responsibility from others?


Speaking of unwashed masses... Look who went off their medication again.

I will reiterate…
You're too fucking stupid or just a flat out liar if you don't know the purpose of this.

You are a FUCKING IMBECILE.

 

[was thatguy]

The real problem here is, we have a culture war going on in America. There are polar ideas on everything and America is fairly evenly divided. You will never see things my way, I will never see things your way. But that doesn't mean we need to be nasty to each other.

Take your never-ending Trump hate threads, You want him gone and are willing to accept devious and illegal processes to see him gone. I disliked Obama, likely more than you dislike Trump, yet I sat on my hands and waited for the time he would be gone. We will never agree.

Reducing gun violence; its education, keeping fathers in the home, moms at home raising kids and not at work. morals, values, patriotism. My dad pounded gun safety into me. If I displayed un-safe gun handling, he would discipline me fast and harsh. I understood these things from an early age. We always had guns around the house, they were in a glass front display wall in my pop's trophy room. I had access, I also had respect and discipline.

Our political leaders don't offer much as far as role models go. Quality, caring parenting solves many of our societies ill's.

Very close to what I was going to respond with.

The left is laser focused on guns, yet on the same day will gladly let undocumented hordes of people from any Country, any society, right into the US.

They are all fired up and righteous in their concern over you and I having our rightfully owned guns, yet have nothing to say about Alah Akbar psychos randomly killing innocents.

Mac and Squeeze are all preachy here about “reducing gun violence”...yet in the same breath dismiss social entities that promote and carry out killings in this Country.
It’s hard to take anything they say serious when there is no recognition or attempt of reconciling this conflict in their reasoning.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Somebody steals your Raptor and they get the weapon in the console you are free and clear because you took reasonable precaution to keep that from happening. Sombody does a smash and grab and grabs it from the glove box not so much...

Hunting is by no means animal cruelty and you know that. Skinning the neighbors dog because he was barking at night is. No need to change any thing about how its defined... Just recognize the link between it and mental state.

I think the federal definition of "kept safe"should be just like your personal definition of kept safe. You take necessary and reasonable steps to keep you son safe from harm. Why are you be willing to accept less than that level of responsibility from others?


Speaking of unwashed masses... Look who went off their medication again.

Arizona Highway Patrol defines locked console same as glove box...ask me how I know.

And yes, I don't believe hunting is cruelty to animals, but I don't get to decide.

Here's an example. After Obama care, I was at my family doctor. His staff comes in and asks me all sorts of questions about guns in the home. WTF? Also, the "data base" they were planning on, it would link any psychotropic drugs to your "profile" the same profile that would be looked at while you're filling out that "harmless" 4473 form down at Cabelas.

Creeping Black Helo's....

 

[Old Texan]

The real problem here is, we have a culture war going on in America. There are polar ideas on everything and America is fairly evenly divided. You will never see things my way, I will never see things your way. But that doesn't mean we need to be nasty to each other.

Take your never-ending Trump hate threads, You want him gone and are willing to accept devious and illegal processes to see him gone. I disliked Obama, likely more than you dislike Trump, yet I sat on my hands and waited for the time he would be gone. We will never agree.

Reducing gun violence; its education, keeping fathers in the home, moms at home raising kids and not at work. morals, values, patriotism. My dad pounded gun safety into me. If I displayed un-safe gun handling, he would discipline me fast and harsh. I understood these things from an early age. We always had guns around the house, they were in a glass front display wall in my pop's trophy room. I had access, I also had respect and discipline.

Our political leaders don't offer much as far as role models go. Quality, caring parenting solves many of our societies ill's.

Never, ever going to license or give up my guns to anyone. Period.

Not a single weapon I own is registered anywhere except possibly from the original purchase recipt.

I would never sell one of my guns, never hawk one, never never never. I have loaned them many times on hunting trips or out shooting, but never to anyone I would not trust with my life. That's a pretty small list.

Nothing you can say, enact, force upon honest citizens will EVER change a single fucking thing.

The truth is you can NEVER EVER STOP CRAZY. People/Criminals/ Terrorists will ALWAYS be able to get their hands on whatever they need.

Personally, I want to see the exact things nganga proposes, it's what taught us all how to handle and care for firearms. Passing that on to children is the most important thing you could ever do to curb gun violence IMO.

Changing the way children are raised and cared for back to a commmunity is more what American society needs, not more ways to disconnect, we need to foster reconnecting.

Yup, just the way I see it. We as responsible gun owners, NRA included, are stuck between protecting our rights to own guns and trying to find a way to stop illegal and mental illness driven crimes/violence.

Another big part of the issue of gun ownership is, I see folks buying their first guns and cringe, knowing they honestly don't realize the responsibility they have just acquired with that gun. I see gf's and wives who have a new gun because their BF's and husbands said they need to be able to protect themselves. If they pull that gun in self defense from a seasoned hoodlum or punk, they can lose it to the bad guy or be killed because they hesitate to pull the trigger. This scenario scares hell outta me.

I pissed off a guy to no end one day in a gun store who was having his girl handle different hand guns looking to see what felt comfortable. My simple statement amounted to, "Have you considered what it takes to point that at a human being and pulling the trigger? Which is more important, having a comfortable feel for holding it, or the after math of killing another human being? Which emotion will have the longest lasting effect on the rest of your life?" I walked away after that statement.

Talked to the sales guy a couple weeks later. They left the store after my statement. She was relieved. The guy was pissed off. Sales guy was uncomfortable with the way the lady wasn't into it from the get go. His job is to sell merchandise but too often sees this very scenario and all he can really to is advise training and talking with experts, like LE about carrying. To him losing the sale wasn't as important as living with his conscience putting a gun in the purse of a lady who really wasn't prepared to carry it.

Again, we as responsible gun people, need to educate and work to stop mentally ill loons from getting armed. We can't stop illegal acquisitions, but we can make people around us aware of the real problems. It isn't the guns, it's society not using a common sense approach. Taking guns away for the good and responsible will solve nothing and only make matters worse. So what it all boils down to is not allowing the anti side throw the baby out with the bathwater. Regardless of your politics, if you value your gun rights, use your head and quit the infighting I keep seeing, especially in this thread. We need to help find ideas and answers that we can push along to those we come in contact with....

Separate the issues and drop the analogies trying to make a point. Stick to the main issue, the USA and guns. It ain't the arrow it's the indian type of deal.

 

[was thatguy]

Arizona Highway Patrol defines locked console same as glove box...ask me how I know.

And yes, I don't believe hunting is cruelty to animals, but I don't get to decide.

Here's an example. After Obama care, I was at my family doctor. His staff comes in and asks me all sorts of questions about guns in the home. WTF? Also, the "data base" they were planning on, it would link any psychotropic drugs to your "profile" the same profile that would be looked at while you're filling out that "harmless" 4473 form down at Cabelas.

Creeping Black Helo's....

Here’s the kicker.
If they want info on my guns at home, why don’t they link up with the feds who already have that info?

Mark my words, it may not be in our lifetime, but the total disarming of the populace will be attempted eventually.
There is no way around it, and all these little pecks and nibbles at it will accelerate.
The left is ate up with the impossible rhetoric to “end gun violence” without a thought to what that term even defines.

 

[squeezer]

Arizona Highway Patrol defines locked console same as glove box...ask me how I know.

And yes, I don't believe hunting is cruelty to animals, but I don't get to decide.

Here's an example. After Obama care, I was at my family doctor. His staff comes in and asks me all sorts of questions about guns in the home. WTF? Also, the "data base" they were planning on, it would link any psychotropic drugs to your "profile" the same profile that would be looked at while you're filling out that "harmless" 4473 form down at Cabelas.

Creeping Black Helo's....

I would also consider a locked console the same as a glovebox...

This is the sort of thing I am talking about...

https://accessories.ford.com/compartment-asy-stowage-11282.html

(Hell thats factory Ford)

or this

https://www.amazon.com/Gunvault-SVB...rowse-bin:4871941011&s=hunting-fishing&sr=1-6

And yes psychotropic drug use should put ones access to firearms in question. Does not mean its a absolute exclusion like a domestic abuse incident but take a hard look.

Be default making it hard (impossible?) for some people to access weapons makes it harder for everyone to access weapons. I am willing to go through extra steps when purchasing to make this happen.

59 Americans killed in the last 72 hours...

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours?sort=desc&order=# Killed

In child deaths by gun We're number ONE... "Merika" Yaaaa!!!

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/20/health/child-gun-deaths-rising/index.html

I know this bothers you... I also know you know there ARE things to reduce these outcomes.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

I would also consider a locked console the same as a glovebox...

This is the sort of thing I am talking about...

https://accessories.ford.com/compartment-asy-stowage-11282.html

(Hell thats factory Ford)

or this

https://www.amazon.com/Gunvault-SVB500-Speedvault-Biometric-Black/dp/B006OGOHD0/ref=sr_1_6?qid=1550171464&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin:4871941011&s=hunting-fishing&sr=1-6

And yes psychotropic drug use should put ones access to firearms in question. Does not mean its a absolute exclusion like a domestic abuse incident but take a hard look.

Be default making it hard (impossible?) for some people to access weapons makes it harder for everyone to access weapons. I am willing to go through extra steps when purchasing to make this happen.

59 Americans killed in the last 72 hours...

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours?sort=desc&order=# Killed

In child deaths by gun We're number ONE... "Merika" Yaaaa!!!

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/20/health/child-gun-deaths-rising/index.html

I know this bothers you... I also know you know there ARE things to reduce these outcomes.

The flaw in your line of thought here. You mention nothing about the bad guys. Since, under your proposal I would lose my gun rights for life, should my guns fall into the wrong hands, shouldn't the bad guy using that gun, either spend the rest of his life in prison, with no chance of parole? Or are your harsh penalties only for an otherwise legal gun owner?

If someone suffers from depression and is prescribed psychotropic drugs for said depression, he or she loses his gun rights for life? Yet, no mention of a paroled inmate losing his?

 

[pronstar]

Lets see:
Should we initiate a competency test about the issues before we allow people to vote?

Should people have to pass a grammar test before they can exercise their right to free speech?

Shall not be infringed my ass...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Lets see:
Should we initiate a competency test about the issues before we allow people to vote?

Should people have to pass a grammar test before they can exercise their right to free speech?

Shall not be infringed my ass...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Voter suppression...you Neanderthal

 

[Old Texan]

The flaw in your line of thought here. You mention nothing about the bad guys. Since, under your proposal I would lose my gun rights for life, should my guns fall into the wrong hands, shouldn't the bad guy using that gun, either spend the rest of his life in prison, with no chance of parole? Or are your harsh penalties only for an otherwise legal gun owner?

If someone suffers from depression and is prescribed psychotropic drugs for said depression, he or she loses his gun rights for life? Yet, no mention of a paroled inmate losing his?

The proposed law I recently heard about that scares me, is the victim of gun theft being responsible for the stolen gun being used after the fact. Typical gun safes are very easy to gain access to with simple power tools. They are little deterrent to smart criminals who steal to sell.

Just as you point out, too many proposed laws are not directed at the crooks, but the gun owners that do 99'9% right and legally.

Focus on the crooks and mentally ill. They are the problem period.

Squeeze, we're all damned close on needs solved, but you're on the side needing to focus on these very real issues of child safety and owner responsibility. Get the message to your "side". They ain't listening to me or nganda, maybe they can listen to you. There in lies a solution....

 

[squeezer]

The flaw in your line of thought here. You mention nothing about the bad guys. Since, under your proposal I would lose my gun rights for life, should my guns fall into the wrong hands, shouldn't the bad guy using that gun, either spend the rest of his life in prison, with no chance of parole? Or are your harsh penalties only for an otherwise legal gun owner?

If someone suffers from depression and is prescribed psychotropic drugs for said depression, he or she loses his gun rights for life? Yet, no mention of a paroled inmate losing his?

Not at all... You are taking reasonable precautions to keep that from happening.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Not at all... You are taking reasonable precautions to keep that from happening.

Not to beat a dead horse Squeezer, but who gets to decide "reasonable" ?

As OT says, we all want the same thing. No kid should ever die before his parents. Period. I understand that pain. But making the people on the right side of the laws the problem, wont stop it. The AD's in the home from a child having access to a gun?????? That's one we all struggle with. Pools? Traffic accidents? where do we stop?

 

[squeezer]

The proposed law I recently heard about that scares me, is the victim of gun theft being responsible for the stolen gun being used after the fact. Typical gun safes are very easy to gain access to with simple power tools. They are little deterrent to smart criminals who steal to sell.

This is crap, secure locked storage passes the responsible ownership test...

Just as you point out, too many proposed laws are not directed at the crooks, but the gun owners that do 99'9% right and legally.

Focus on the crooks and mentally ill. They are the problem period.

Squeeze, we're all damned close on needs solved, but you're on the side needing to focus on these very real issues of child safety and owner responsibility. Get the message to your "side". They ain't listening to me or nganda, maybe they can listen to you. There in lies a solution....

I am not sure I have a side on this... Pretty much play it strait down the middle.

 

[500bbc]

Somebody steals your Raptor and they get the weapon in the console you are free and clear because you took reasonable precaution to keep that from happening. Sombody does a smash and grab and grabs it from the glove box not so much...

Hunting is by no means animal cruelty and you know that. Skinning the neighbors dog because he was barking at night is. No need to change any thing about how its defined... Just recognize the link between it and mental state.

I think the federal definition of "kept safe"should be just like your personal definition of kept safe. You take necessary and reasonable steps to keep you son safe from harm. Why are you be willing to accept less than that level of responsibility from others?


Speaking of unwashed masses... Look who went off their medication again.

Just making another, obvious, observation.

Idiot

 

[squeezer]

Not to beat a dead horse Squeezer, but who gets to decide "reasonable" ?

As OT says, we all want the same thing. No kid should ever die before his parents. Period. I understand that pain. But making the people on the right side of the laws the problem, wont stop it. The AD's in the home from a child having access to a gun?????? That's one we all struggle with. Pools? Traffic accidents? where do we stop?

You and I do...And when that gets questioned a jury of our peers, and then the SCOTUS. Yea it will suck to be the first person who has to fight it but case law will get settled pretty quickly... And yes thats how things change in this country by design.

 

[500bbc]

Lets see:
Should we initiate a competency test about the issues before we allow people to vote?

Should people have to pass a grammar test before they can exercise their right to free speech?

Shall not be infringed my ass...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Squeeze is dying to infringe on your ass.

 

[squeezer]

Just making another, obvious, observation.

Idiot

Do you have something constructive to add or are you just going to continue drooling on your keyboard?

 

[500bbc]

Not to beat a dead horse Squeezer, but who gets to decide "reasonable" ?

As OT says, we all want the same thing. No kid should ever die before his parents. Period. I understand that pain. But making the people on the right side of the laws the problem, wont stop it. The AD's in the home from a child having access to a gun?????? That's one we all struggle with. Pools? Traffic accidents? where do we stop?

 

[500bbc]

Do you have something constructive to add or are you just going to continue drooling on your keyboard?

I'm still waiting for you to add anything "constructive" other than your fucking idiotic path to confiscation.
There has been over 20,000 new gun laws passed since the sixties but you are so fucking stupid you think further restricting honest citizen's rights will create your fucking stupid utopia.

How about use a gun go to the gas chamber?

Fucking idiot

 

[SBMech]

In child deaths by gun We're number ONE... "Merika" Yaaaa!!!

Stop with your playing stupid. It's simple math that we would be #1 because we ARE the largest armed populace on the planet, by a very large order of magnitude.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

View attachment 727211

Ya know, she may be a dope, but I would KNOCK THE BOTTOM OUTTA DAT!!

 

[500bbc]

Ya know, she may be a dope, but I would KNOCK THE BOTTOM OUTTA DAT!!

Oh hell no, that kinda crazy is life time stalker.

 

[Racey]

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Oh hell no, that kinda crazy is life time stalker.

Yeah, but we got the guns.

You gotta know there are some nude pics of her coming.

 

[500bbc]

Yeah, but we got the guns.

You gotta know there are some nude pics of her coming.

 

[500bbc]

View attachment 727218

There is not a libturd on earth that can understand your post, just ask them

 

[spectra3279]

Is this addressed at me?

No to the libs and demorats

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


Edit

And anyone in general that is fighting against the second ammendment

 

[was thatguy]

Yup, just the way I see it. We as responsible gun owners, NRA included, are stuck between protecting our rights to own guns and trying to find a way to stop illegal and mental illness driven crimes/violence.

Another big part of the issue of gun ownership is, I see folks buying their first guns and cringe, knowing they honestly don't realize the responsibility they have just acquired with that gun. I see gf's and wives who have a new gun because their BF's and husbands said they need to be able to protect themselves. If they pull that gun in self defense from a seasoned hoodlum or punk, they can lose it to the bad guy or be killed because they hesitate to pull the trigger. This scenario scares hell outta me.

I pissed off a guy to no end one day in a gun store who was having his girl handle different hand guns looking to see what felt comfortable. My simple statement amounted to, "Have you considered what it takes to point that at a human being and pulling the trigger? Which is more important, having a comfortable feel for holding it, or the after math of killing another human being? Which emotion will have the longest lasting effect on the rest of your life?" I walked away after that statement.

Talked to the sales guy a couple weeks later. They left the store after my statement. She was relieved. The guy was pissed off. Sales guy was uncomfortable with the way the lady wasn't into it from the get go. His job is to sell merchandise but too often sees this very scenario and all he can really to is advise training and talking with experts, like LE about carrying. To him losing the sale wasn't as important as living with his conscience putting a gun in the purse of a lady who really wasn't prepared to carry it.

Again, we as responsible gun people, need to educate and work to stop mentally ill loons from getting armed. We can't stop illegal acquisitions, but we can make people around us aware of the real problems. It isn't the guns, it's society not using a common sense approach. Taking guns away for the good and responsible will solve nothing and only make matters worse. So what it all boils down to is not allowing the anti side throw the baby out with the bathwater. Regardless of your politics, if you value your gun rights, use your head and quit the infighting I keep seeing, especially in this thread. We need to help find ideas and answers that we can push along to those we come in contact with....

Separate the issues and drop the analogies trying to make a point. Stick to the main issue, the USA and guns. It ain't the arrow it's the indian type of deal.

I admire your optimism, OT.
Unfortunately, the gun grabbers seem not willing to take a logical look at the realities of the so called gun violence.
Their mantra is disarmament...whether they freely admit or not.
Somehow they feel that the ONLY answer is more and more restrictions on the populace in general, all leading to disarmament.
The sheer number of private weapons in this Country makes this folly, imo.

I agree with your direction and agree that a solution to “forecast” possible and probable mentally unstable owners who “light off” would be extremely beneficial in decreasing senseless acts.
However, the numbers this might produce are questionable at best when compared to the price we might pay as citizens with rights?
As I stated earlier, I would also be MUCH more inclined to enter into honest debate and paths towards some solutions or at least ideas with them if they were able to in ANY small way consider setting aside their Trump hate when it comes to, what I consider to be, a far more dangerous situation being open borders and unchecked illegal immigration.

In short, they want overreach to stop joe citizen on Prozac, yet have no problem letting literally millions of who knows who into the Country...unknowns who can acquire a weapon before going past Tucson, or as history proves a few airliners.

So, if we negotiate in good faith and say somehow an agreement (beyond what is already law, let’s not forget that that Florida shooter had been reported by family and was dismissed by the FBI as I recall) is reached.
Let’s say one of us experiences a loss or other matter that sees us seek temporary counseling or some sort of documented emotional support.
What do you think will happen next?