DCB flip from the air (different angle)

[RiverDave]

Question what official dip shit decided to have them go down the AZ side around blind corners against traffic?

Been that way since the beginning of DS. All the boats won't fit just staying to the right. They barely fit spanning the whole lake.

RD

 

[New to boating]

You have your prop rotation backwards.. Spin them outwards on the M41 and you'll pick up 6-8mph instantly. Romer's old boat was setup spinning outwards for all out top end, it has sense then been changed to inward rotation to make it safer to drive around the lake etc, and has in fact lost top end from it's previous setup.

RD

No, don't have it backwards but your entitled to your opinion. Not sure how many boats you have set up or owned like this but I have, and I did and I assure you, I dont have it backwards. They handle better (specifically cornering) spinning out. It can be boat specific to some extent but largely that is the case. I have no idea about the M41.

And just so you don't get your overprotective DCB reaction going here I'm not taking a dig at DCB's, it looks like 100% driver error, not blaming the boat at all, they just didnt have a clue.

 

[throttle]

...I see the 41 jump out in front of everyone and sweep the turn to try and draw a straighter line to the next bend in the lake... the 35 seemed to have had room to make it by as there was still another boat between him and the shore (on the left) that did make it... I would rather be running rubrail to rubrail next to a guy that taught me how to drive my new 35 than cross his wake and get washed.

 

[FreeBird236]

Just like a road- you drive on the right (unless you are in the UK...lol)

Never get left of the centerline.

No shit, the person you are quoting is saying to go down the Az side..:rolleyes

 

[spectras only]

You would never choose that in a twin 1500 HP 35 foot cat. The benefit in speed would be de-mininus and the cornering / turing is dramatically and negatively impacted.

Racing APBA / Supercat or Super V where you have "spec" engines depending upon the race course) you would select inward rotation becauase it creates "nose (Bow) lift) and you can grab a few miles per hour that way and a few miles per hour in a class with "spec" power (like the 525 Merc #6 package) was a huge deal so you might trade the decrease in handling for the speed at venue like Sarasota or Marathon where the water is predictably calmer. In Miami or Ft lauderdale for example where you have 4 to 6 footers you would select outward rotation because your not going to be racing wide open much and looking for top end speed to gain an advantage.

In lake Havasu with a big power CAT that can run 160,170 or 180 MPH you need handling, the boat needs to turn well and respond well and 3 or 4 MPH won't matter so you would never choose inward rotation and sacrafice control.

Roth, London, Smith - all "spinning out", outward prop rotation. Don't know about the M41 but I woudl guess "spinning out".

Dave, did you read this? Gary Smith turns his props outward!

New to boating , thanks for the info. I do turn my props inwards to gain a few mph in my 'V' hull.

 

[Duffster]

Been that way since the beginning of DS. All the boats won't fit just staying to the right. They barely fit spam ing the whole lake.

RD

I though someone quote that in the drivers meeting they wanted them all to hug the AZ side. Just sounds dumb.

 

[McRib]

Does not look like the boat would turn either. As far as being left of center a lot of boats were. I would wager most boats want to run the shortest distance between two points. Unless there is center of lake designation it is to each operators judgement where that is.
Wonder what the pleasure boater headed North on the east side of the lake was thinking?:eek

Choosing the shortest distance us great on a closed course. The center of the lake also known as the state line. Every boater on Havasu should be able to distinguish the center of the lake. If u can't... Sell your boat and shot urself in the DICK. Traffic for the event was to be south CA side north AZ side. Oh and guess what. That the lakes regular every day rule also. But hey the bigger and faster you are the less the rules apply.

 

[RiverDave]

No, don't have it backwards but your entitled to your opinion. Not sure how many boats you have set up or owned like this but I have, and I did and I assure you, I dont have it backwards. They handle better (specifically cornering) spinning out. It can be boat specific to some extent but largely that is the case. I have no idea about the M41.

And just so you don't get your overprotective DCB reaction going here I'm not taking a dig at DCB's, it looks like 100% driver error, not blaming the boat at all, they just didnt have a clue.

How many guys do you want to hear it from that your backwards? Lol. We can start with he riggers at DCB and end up with skater if ya want. They are all gonna say the same thing. Everyone I know has always said inwards is safer, outwards is faster.

RD

 

[RiverDave]

No, don't have it backwards but your entitled to your opinion. Not sure how many boats you have set up or owned like this but I have, and I did and I assure you, I dont have it backwards. They handle better (specifically cornering) spinning out. It can be boat specific to some extent but largely that is the case. I have no idea about the M41.

And just so you don't get your overprotective DCB reaction going here I'm not taking a dig at DCB's, it looks like 100% driver error, not blaming the boat at all, they just didnt have a clue.

Other then prop rotation we pretty much agree on everything..

RD

 

[djunkie]

Choosing the shortest distance us great on a closed course. The center of the lake also known as the state line. Every boater on Havasu should be able to distinguish the center of the lake. If u can't... Sell your boat and shot urself in the DICK. Traffic for the event was to be south CA side north AZ side. Oh and guess what. That the lakes regular every day rule also. But hey the bigger and faster you are the less the rules apply.

Go back and edit yourself in post #94. You said you were told to hug the Az. side going south.

 

[FreeBird236]

I though someone quote that in the drivers meeting they wanted them all to hug the AZ side. Just sounds dumb.

Some people are just obviously getting right and left mixed up no way would the pokerrun not follow the lake directions.

 

[throttle]

That blue boat was JT driving a 388 Skater. He turned right around after the accident, to assist the men in the M35.

JT makes it past the oncoming boat traffic. I think the 35 could have too.

 

[djunkie]

Some people are just obviously getting right and left mixed up no way would the pokerrun not follow the lake directions.

They must have failed Geography. Silly truck drivers.

 

[primetime]

Everyone is going to see it differently but had the 41 not cut to the left like he did(like he shouldn't have) at the angle he was going he would have been on the far left side of lake. Yes 35 should have backed off but might if had another boat up his ass. 41 was wrong 35 was wrong but had 41 not cut shirt everyone would be fine. My opinion. It's a friendly event. Intentional or not it caused a chain of events that should have never happened.

 

[Nashvillebound]

I have no idea why this driver would try to cross that wake like that, there was plenty of room to stay the course with a slight correction. total bone head move, and you want to talk about squeezing someone, the guy behind the 41 was put in a very bad situation, could have ended a lot worse. those boys were moving, pulling away from the helos, I'd wager 110+mph.

There's a lot of open lake out there. Totally driver error. I'm more fascinated that the larger sleds like this flip so easy. Just in these threads over the last few days I've heard two stories of larger DCB's rolling. Either there's a rash of idiot drivers with too much money or possibly unsafe setups. Maybe they should be running 496's!!
My Magic (cough), deck of all things, ran a solid 80... I got that airborne dozens of times. Never at some retarded angles like in that video but air regardless. Unsafe? Maybe. But I was alone in open water so it was my risk. And yes, I know the difference of 80mph is different from 110+mph.... but its one hell of a difference of size and weight too. I'm glad no one was seriously hurt but what a moron move.

 

[Duffster]

Just like a road- you drive on the right (unless you are in the UK...lol)

Never get left of the centerline.

Correct last I heard the London Bridge was not in the UK anymore

 

[Havasu Hangin']

Correct last I heard the London Bridge was not in the UK anymore

Comedy in this thread! Who knew?

 

[RiverDave]

The rest of the texts will be coming shortly but everyone that actually sets up cats knows this general rule of thumb by heart. To be clear I don't setup boats but I have been around enough of it and the people who do to know.




Etc..

 

[djunkie]

I'm startin to think that m35 was out of control like stated earlier. Sure, maybe the 41 veered too far left but I highly doubt that 35 crossed that wake intentionally. And obviously he wasn't lifting off the throttle. Maybe a little bit of ego? This whole deal is just like a street race to me on the freeway. Guys swerving for the best lane and taking chances to be the winner.

 

[djunkie]

The rest of the texts will be coming shortly but everyone that actually sets up cats knows this general rule of thumb by heart. To be clear I don't setup boats but I have been around enough of it and the people who do to know.
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Internet dumb dumbs. LOL

 

[throttle]

JT is one of the best. I agree with you, I think the M35 could have made it. However, when I was reading post #57, I agree with what he had to say about that.

Yes. I concur. I do not know the owner/driver of the 35, I can't say if he lacks experience or education, not to mention the comfort zone he has or doesn't have with the lake. Again, I will state... All involved are lucky. I am so glad things were not worse in the end.

 

[New to boating]

How many guys do you want to hear it from that your backwards? Lol. We can start with he riggers at DCB and end up with skater if ya want. They are all gonna say the same thing. Everyone I know has always said inwards is safer, outwards is faster.

RD

My last post on the subject because frankly, your wrong and I've got other things to do. handling is signifiantly better in big power CATS spinning out, specifically cornering which appears to be a problem with this accident based upon my prospective.

My statements are based upon personal expreience, actually having done this (race set up) to my race boats and boats I raced with others, I'm not regurgitating what some supposed expert has told me.

To answer your question about '"how many guys I need to hear from" Im only interested in hearing from Guys that have a wide experience racing Big Power Cat's or acutally racing Offshore boats because those are the Guys who spend hours playing with things like rotation to figure it out. Jerry Gilbreth actually showed me the difference at a race and we used it to our advantage depending upon conditions and venue for years .

On your site, there arent any Im aware of so in answer to your question I will acccept any other qualified opinion, preferably from someone who has actually done it since they generally have a more reliable prospective.

DCB's run super wet and hardly aired out even at speed, maybe they run differently and the handling improves spinning in, I said I don't know much about DCB's. Im a Skater Guy, and have run MTI's.

I am sure the guys at DCB have tested everyting and I don't take issue with their findings / conclusions but in spite of that, the M35 looks like it couldnt turn (not the boats fault), it simply was fidning its own path because the operators had lost control and at that speed had they survived the crossing over the M41 transom at that trojectory and still accelerating it would have taken forever to get back in the direction the rest of the fleet was heading.

 

[460]

The rest of the texts will be coming shortly but everyone that actually sets up cats knows this general rule of thumb by heart. To be clear I don't setup boats but I have been around enough of it and the people who do to know.
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Internet dumbasses. Noted

 

[Duffster]

Well in closing (I'm fucking done)

I'm just glad no one got hurt boats can be replaced. Their should be some lessons learned for next time through all this bitching about who's at fault.

This is a great event and I would like to see it continue.

 

[New to boating]

Internet dumb dumbs. LOL

'Spinning out is for race only".... ask Tony if water conditions matter, or the HP / hull lenght of the boat matters?

 

[whiteworks]

There's a lot of open lake out there. Totally driver error. I'm more fascinated that the larger sleds like this flip so easy. Just in these threads over the last few days I've heard two stories of larger DCB's rolling. Either there's a rash of idiot drivers with too much money or possibly unsafe setups. Maybe they should be running 496's!!
My Magic (cough), deck of all things, ran a solid 80... I got that airborne dozens of times. Never at some retarded angles like in that video but air regardless. Unsafe? Maybe. But I was alone in open water so it was my risk. And yes, I know the difference of 80mph is different from 110+mph.... but its one hell of a difference of size and weight too. I'm glad no one was seriously hurt but what a moron move.

I would think its safe to say that DCB sets up a safe boat, that being said not everyone has the same skill set for dealing with awkward situations such as we see here. I'd wager you try that same move, same conditions in any cat and you would get the same result or worse.

 

[throttle]

The rest of the texts will be coming shortly but everyone that actually sets up cats knows this general rule of thumb by heart. To be clear I don't setup boats but I have been around enough of it and the people who do to know.
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Dammit RD! Now I know why u haven't got back to. You have 49 new txt MSG's waiting.

 

[Cole Trickle]

Alot of jockeying for position.

The M41 deffinatley left early.

The M35 while pinched could have easily trimmed down and made a slight turn to the left after the boat passed and found some clean water to try and make up ground....

Th F32 went over the same wake and nothing happend.

I would be intrested to hear more from Garry. 8 years ago there were only a couple big dogs and some other boats that wen't 120 mph so I imagine there was alot more room to maneuver .

Seems Predator was walking a very fine line with traffic that pushed in on both sides. The amount of craz fast boats and wake would make me nervous even riding in the event that close together. There seems like very little if any room to make a fast decision when things go bad.

Honestly its a miracle there wasn't more damage to boats or life.......kudos to the drivers that turned immediatley and wen't back to help.

 

[H20 Toie]

It had already started. We went to stop 2 first in a and b group as instructed. We watched all the big fast guys take off from out side the north bout line of the channel. We were a good 30 to 45 min behind the first fast group. After I left stop 2 at the landing we grabbed the az side (as instructed) for our south bound departure. We stayed on the AZ side all the way down to the springs. When we got to pilot rock I was the one that noticed the wreck and pointed it out to my navigators. A lot of the fast guys were meandering and caught up to us at black meadow. I should have been no where near any fast boats except for the guys going north. Stop one was loaded with big boats when,we got there.

I was in group G so we ended up passing a lot of the a and b boats on the way down. Granted i don't have a 100mph boat but it seems like the a and b groups should have been after us . Mc rib and i got to the first stop at the same time.

 

[throttle]

Internet dumbasses. Noted

This to be consensus of how Dave's sponsors really feel about us. Lol

 

[sirbob]

The rest of the texts will be coming shortly but everyone that actually sets up cats knows this general rule of thumb by heart. To be clear I don't setup boats but I have been around enough of it and the people who do to know.
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Dave there you go backing up your comments with opinions from others that should know what they are talking about...

 

[whiteworks]

This to be consensus of how Dave's sponsors really feel about us. Lol

Are they wrong? Lol

 

[RiverDave]

Damn this is getting old. Things that go fast crash, sometimes people get hurt, sometimes they dont, sometimes they die. When I get behind the wheel of my race boat I know there is the possibility that I may crash, get hurt, or die. This shouldnt be any different when getting behind the wheel of a 150 mph pleasure boat. Call it a race, call it a poker run, call it a nice run down the lake, who gives a shit. If you are going to fast in a boat, car, bike, skateboard, etc., you run the risk of things going wrong. Shit happens as they say. Why must we go on for days about blame?

Dave, did you read this? Gary Smith turns his props outward!

New to boating , thanks for the info. I do turn my props inwards to gain a few mph in my 'V' hull.

My last post on the subject because frankly, your wrong and I've got other things to do. handling is signifiantly better in big power CATS spinning out, specifically cornering which appears to be a problem with this accident based upon my prospective.

My statements are based upon personal expreience, actually having done this (race set up) to my race boats and boats I raced with others, I'm not regurgitating what some supposed expert has told me.

To answer your question about '"how many guys I need to hear from" Im only interested in hearing from Guys that have a wide experience racing Big Power Cat's or acutally racing Offshore boats because those are the Guys who spend hours playing with things like rotation to figure it out. Jerry Gilbreth actually showed me the difference at a race and we used it to our advantage depending upon conditions and venue for years .

On your site, there arent any Im aware of so in answer to your question I will acccept any other qualified opinion, preferably from someone who has actually done it since they generally have a more reliable prospective.

DCB's run super wet and hardly aired out even at speed, maybe they run differently and the handling improves spinning in, I said I don't know much about DCB's. Im a Skater Guy, and have run MTI's.

I am sure the guys at DCB have tested everyting and I don't take issue with their findings / conclusions but in spite of that, the M35 looks like it couldnt turn (not the boats fault), it simply was fidning its own path because the operators had lost control and at that speed had they survived the crossing over the M41 transom at that trojectory and still accelerating it would have taken forever to get back in the direction the rest of the fleet was heading.

Well like I said, other then prop rotation we pretty much agree on everything. I don't set em up.. I texted Alexi / Thane from Nordic (tooled and setup a lot of boats) etc..

Doesn't matter though. Everybody I have ever known has said "In" - Safe / Out = speed. That's all I was saying.

RD

 

[CHAD1]

If you watch the Rayar video from 20 to 24 seconds in slow motion you can see why the M35 may have not chosen to stay left. Keep in mind the driver knows JT is right there!

 

[H20 Toie]

I would think its safe to say that DCB sets up a safe boat, that being said not everyone has the same skill set for dealing with awkward situations such as we see here. I'd wager you try that same move, same conditions in any cat and you would get the same result or worse.

So true. a cat gets speed because of the air being compressed under the boat, water doesn't compress which means more lift. also there is difference in the water behind a boat as opposed to beside it which effects control. Tres Martin goes over this in length in his class. so it is really sad to see this kind of accident happen when the driver should have known better.

Also sad to see how they were running on the az side of the river.

 

[throttle]

Alot of jockeying for position.

The M41 deffinatley left early.

The M35 while pinched could have easily trimmed down and made a slight turn to the left after the boat passed and found some clean water to try and make up ground....


I would be intrested to hear more from Garry.

Seems Predator was walking a very fine line with traffic that pushed in on both sides. The amount of craz fast boats and wake would make me nervous even riding in the event that close together. There seems like very little if any room to make a fast decision when things go bad.

I had a moment with predator before the shootout on Saturday and he had a good story and yes indeed there was lots changing and fast!

 

[Stainless]

Choosing the shortest distance us great on a closed course. The center of the lake also known as the state line. Every boater on Havasu should be able to distinguish the center of the lake. If u can't... Sell your boat and shot urself in the DICK. Traffic for the event was to be south CA side north AZ side. Oh and guess what. That the lakes regular every day rule also. But hey the bigger and faster you are the less the rules apply.

I reread my post and yours, maybe we are saying the same thing differently. Just to clarify which side of the lake did they tell you to drive on headed South to CS 1.
I have participated in four DS and I swear they told us to stay on Cali side going South to CS 1. Maybe I'm wrong!

 

[Deano]

The 41 pinched the whole group. He jumped the start, got the speed to pass, and did while turning harder left than he should have.

 

[Boatfloating]

The M35 , it appears he didn't want to turn while everyone else did and went across the M41's wake. Very lucky, glad it didn't involve any other boats and they only sustained minor injuries considering.

Not how I see it at all with 3 boats on port side and that tight turn Tony in the M41 should have held a straighter line and not pinched off the few boats on his port side and turned a bit later as had the M35 turned with him he would pinched the boat to his port. Now this isn't a race and there needs to be some give and take and I guess Tony though he had center line so go to my right if you want to go around me. The only person I see turning is the M41 the others are heading straight how I see it notice the the F29 in the M41 just before the M35 went across it? Now was it driver error when he crossed the wake, I would have trimmed down and slowed knowing it wasn't going to be a fun ride and results speak for itself.

 

[sirbob]

Lots of boats on the wrong side of the lake heading south...

M41 cuts WAY to tight a turn...

M35 starts to shit the bed when he sees his lane going away...

In a moment of confusion he thinks the only way out is to accelerate through the "hole" he sees between the back of the M41 and the front of the 32...

One issue I don't think many have considered is what it would have looked like at driver / lake level - Some have said he had plenty of room if he stayed left (maybe he did) But I see the issue as one of perception - from the air we can see the whole bend in the lake and how much room there is or is not. From the drivers seat he sees more boats anchored on the left side of the lake and can not see the whole curve - at over 100 all he is seeing is shore in the distance and really wont be able to make out exactly where the curve is or how much room he has or does not have...

I have never been to the Tres Martin school - and I'm sure if I had been I would be better prepared for the shit sandwich he found himself in. But I think the bigger issue has to do with how he got in the situation - I have been running up or down the lake plenty of times and realized that the curve / straight I thought I was following turned out to be different when I got closer to it than when I was father away. And that happens to me all the time going a lot slower than they were going - I have to think its much worse going twice as fast as I normally go.

The more I look at the pics and the video, to me it reminds me of John Kennedy crashing his plane on a clear night... sometimes it just looks a little different than you think it really is.

Carry on.

 

[whiteworks]

So true. a cat gets speed because of the air being compressed under the boat, water doesn't compress which means more lift. also there is difference in the water behind a boat as opposed to beside it which effects control. Tres Martin goes over this in length in his class. so it is really sad to see this kind of accident happen when the driver should have known better.

Also sad to see how they were running on the az side of the river.

I think there is a detachment from the reality of the situation when your sitting behind Canopies not getting blasted with wind. Also these big cats really can eat up some amazing shit on the water like its not even there. To me its a false sense of security, they should all learn to drive these bad boys with the windshields off. These guys are so damn lucky to have swam away from this, live and learn:thumbsup

 

[POWERCATDON]

So Who's Boat was that coming up towards the Poker Run Traffic. They could have throttled back and waited for the Pack to Pass.

 

[Miss Venomous]

I can only munster up to 85 mph, In my humble opinion after watching the video (only once ) I would of held my line & had a great shot of good water to come...Driver error

 

[Joker]

Maybe a DCB passing us on the way to Needles on Friday afternoon 15' away from my side was normal after reading this as well as their roost entering our boat as they passed us and got in our line? Maybe they can't go to the right or left when there's at least 50 yards on either side? Now it all makes sense.

 

[Outdrive1]

Had the M35 driver backed down for a couple of seconds, none of this would have happened. Your odds are better 99 percent of the time slowing down than you are trying to power through a tight situation.

Ego? Inexperience? Just plain in a situation they had no business being in?
I heard that they hadn't even bought the boat yet. Maybe that's a rumor??? If so I can't believe they are even out there in front of the first group. If thats true, I need to get on OCM's test drive program. :thumbup:

 

[Nord]

So we have one guy on here saying that the driver of the boat was blackballed previously from events like this for reckless driving and another who says the guy hadn't even bought the boat yet! Any validity to any of this?

 

[CHAD1]

None

 

[Nord]

I believe Chad.

 

[Outdrive1]

So we have one guy on here saying that the driver of the boat was blackballed previously from events like this for reckless driving and another who says the guy hadn't even bought the boat yet! Any validity to any of this?

I said it was a rumor. Heard it third party so put no validity in the statement. I was making a joke out of it.

 

[Outdrive1]

None

How long have they owned it?