Carl's Howard

[purrfecttremor]

Can't wait to see the progress and hopefully pics! Congratulations Brian your kids are going to love it!

 

[wsuwrhr]

Congrats to you for getting that 25Howard/24'6 Spectra:thumbup:

Curising. Noted.

 

[Cole Trickle]

Give her a bath and take some pictures....I always wanted to see more of the boat.

How clean is the gel and interior?

 

[wsuwrhr]

Gel is cherry, passenger area has shag carpet and decent. Seats and cushions are very nice. Berth area padding is good, material is a bit dry rotted and torn in a couple spots.

Keel is perfect. I need to have a guard installed.

Sumbitch has a porta potty built in under the bed. I chuckled.

The boat looks like it has been inside and or covered its whole life.

I didn't look at the chronograph, but I read that Uncle Carl said it had 70 hours on it.

Brian

Give her a bath and take some pictures....I always wanted to see more of the boat.

How clean is the gel and interior?

 

[wsuwrhr]

She will have a nice warm spot in the barn, for the horses, soon enough.

Brian

 

[Willie B]

... Here is a pic of what it would look like if you were to decide to go with side tanks.,,I wish I would've photographed the whole process but I didn't,...anyway you do it the floors do have to come out and if there are lengthy in the floor fiberglass tanks outside the stringers it is Looking more and more like you would be best off cutting the tops off those tanks and sliding some new aluminums inside the old carcasses???... I would like to see pictures of the tank set up once you get around to taking the floors out???...

...I ripped all the old shag out of mine and redid the interior with the brown stuff you can see in the picture... Came out really nice...

 

[spectras only]

My 1972 Spectra 24 [ friend owns it ] still has the fiberglass saddle tanks.No issues what so ever.Same goes for my 1976 spectra 20, only the 1978 19 has the saddle tanks.The fiberglass tanks have fire retardant properties,don't know if Howards are different?! If you want to replace them anyway, cutting the top of the tanks,placing aluminum ones as suggest sounds the way to go.

 

[wsuwrhr]

Regarding the tanks, I read that Uncle Carl said they needed to be replaced.

I haven't gotten deep enough to verify that yet, not sure I can really, short of filling them and see if they leak, or contaminate the fuel.

Brian

My 1972 Spectra 24 [ friend owns it ] still has the fiberglass saddle tanks.No issues what so ever.Same goes for my 1976 spectra 20, only the 1978 19 has the saddle tanks.The fiberglass tanks have fire retardant properties,don't know if Howards are different?! If you want to replace them anyway, cutting the top of the tanks,placing aluminum ones as suggest sounds the way to go.

 

[Ziggy]

In no expert so in curios. I had to buy a 5 flat adapter and trailer has an extra wire. Is this different?

The 5th wire, blue I think, is for trailers with electronic brake lockout when tow vehicle put in reverse.

 

[460]

Congrats Brian.

 

[coolchange]

If you don't want to get after the tanks right away (I'm pretty sure you already know this) Just run AV or racing gas in them. Drain when done.

 

[Willie B]

If you don't want to get after the tanks right away (I'm pretty sure you already know this) Just run AV or racing gas in them. Drain when done.

...Hmmm???... Seems to me that Carl knew that the tanks had to be replaced so he may have already discovered the black shit that appears in the carburetor,...coats the intake runners,...sticks to the valve stems...So I don't think I would just throw some avgas at it without consulting with a couple of Carl's immediates...to see what they might know about the situation???...

 

[shan]

...Hmmm???... Seems to me that Carl knew that the tanks had to be replaced so he may have already discovered the black shit that appears in the carburetor,...coats the intake runners,...sticks to the valve stems...So I don't think I would just throw some avgas at it without consulting with a couple of Carl's immediates...to see what they might know about the situation???...

Yeah, once they're gone they're gone.

 

[Monstrous]

Shan...doesn't the gas eat the fiberglass and it turns into a gel? The gel is the issue in the engine. Replace the tanks. Not worth the other issues.

 

[shan]

Shan...doesn't the gas eat the fiberglass and it turns into a gel? The gel is the issue in the engine. Replace the tanks. Not worth the other issues.

I think that's what I said, or at least was trying to say. Once the tanks are coming apart there is no way to save it.

 

[DeltaSigBoater]

words of wisdom and food for thought

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/foru...side-of-Carb&p=1372779&viewfull=1#post1372779

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/foru...side-of-Carb&p=1373707&viewfull=1#post1373707

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/foru...side-of-Carb&p=1374229&viewfull=1#post1374229

 

[spectras only]

Shan...doesn't the gas eat the fiberglass and it turns into a gel? The gel is the issue in the engine. Replace the tanks. Not worth the other issues.

Gas does not eat fiberglass, the ethanol in modern fuels does.My 24 spectra has high compression LS6 engine and never saw low octane fuel that contains 5,10 or 15% ethanol.Chevron premium is your friend.:thumbup:
ethanol is also bad for aluminum tanks,go stainless if that's what you want.

 

[coolchange]

Didn't know if they had already started dissolving.

 

[RiverDave]

Regarding the tanks, I read that Uncle Carl said they needed to be replaced.

I haven't gotten deep enough to verify that yet, not sure I can really, short of filling them and see if they leak, or contaminate the fuel.

Brian

Pretty sure Carl told me they started seeping fuel.

 

[TBI]

I've had the pleasure of riding in that boat and it is a sweet time capsule, Congrats!! :thumbsup

 

[wsuwrhr]

DSB to the rescue, again.

I guess that solves it.

Brian

words of wisdom and food for thought

 

[wsuwrhr]

One thing I was thinking....carrying 40 gal of fuel up high in the gunnels instead of in the floor....

I know it is a school bus and not a Ferrari, but it seems the boat would be much happier with the weight down low.

What say ye?

Btw she does have a big blower, I don't know how I missed it.....no hoses at all though.

Brian

 

[wsuwrhr]

I've had the pleasure of riding in that boat and it is a sweet time capsule, Congrats!! :thumbsup

It's a damn shame the direction I likely have to go. I will do my best to keep it oldschoolcool.

Brian

 

[oldschool]

Congrats, sounds like it will fit your needs perfectly along with the sentimental aspect. Nothing wrong with keeping things "oldschool" cool.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

One thing I was thinking....carrying 40 gal of fuel up high in the gunnels instead of in the floor....

I know it is a school bus and not a Ferrari, but it seems the boat would be much happier with the weight down low.

What say ye?

Btw she does have a big blower, I don't know how I missed it.....no hoses at all though.

Brian

LOTS of boats with tanks in the gunwales. That's where mine are and I have a fairly deeper Vee. Specially for only being 18'. I never feel the fuel effect CG or anything like that.

 

[wsuwrhr]

 

[wsuwrhr]

 

[wsuwrhr]

 

[wsuwrhr]

 

[Racey]

Gas does not eat fiberglass, the ethanol in modern fuels does.My 24 spectra has high compression LS6 engine and never saw low octane fuel that contains 5,10 or 15% ethanol.Chevron premium is your friend.:thumbup:
ethanol is also bad for aluminum tanks,go stainless if that's what you want.

Ethanol only attacks certain alloys of aluminum, 5000 series alum is alloyed with magnesium and is highly corrosion resistant, not like 6000, or 7000 series aluminum, which while stronger, are not as corrosion resistant (fittings).

Fuel tanks are made from 5000 series, mainly alloy 5052. Ethanol does not readily attack this alloy. There are literally 10's of thousands of boats running around with IMCO 5052 aluminum tanks, i have never seen one corrode away from the inside due to fuel. The only time i've seen them fail is from something rubbing on the outside, or when the outside of the tank is exposed to lots of moisture but not fully submerged (ie the foam the tank is set in is saturated) and it never dries and electrolysis starts doing it work over the coarse of years. Mainly boats that are sitting in the water for extended times and always have water in the bilge, and it's a keel tank. But this is pretty rare.


5052 Aluminum tanks are perfectly fine for ethanol.

 

[wsuwrhr]

Here are a few crappy quick pics from early this morning.

 

[spectras only]

One thing I was thinking....carrying 40 gal of fuel up high in the gunnels instead of in the floor....

I know it is a school bus and not a Ferrari, but it seems the boat would be much happier with the weight down low.

What say ye?

Btw she does have a big blower, I don't know how I missed it.....no hoses at all though.

Brian

Brian, my 24 Spectra rode like a train on rails, no handling problems in turns,so keeping the saddle configuration won't be an issue unless you throw 1500HP into the beast.

 

[wsuwrhr]

Brian, my 24 Spectra rode like a train on rails, no handling problems in turns,so keeping the saddle configuration won't be an issue unless you throw 1500HP into the beast.

Not looking to change power. This is a school bus, not a hotrod.

After seeing the one in TN, I think, that had 1100 HP and went a blistering 80. Cemented any ideas about that.

Brian

 

[spectras only]

Ethanol only attacks certain alloys of aluminum, 5000 series alum is alloyed with magnesium and is highly corrosion resistant, not like 6000, or 7000 series aluminum, which while stronger, are not as corrosion resistant (fittings).

Fuel tanks are made from 5000 series, mainly alloy 5052. Ethanol does not readily attack this alloy. There are literally 10's of thousands of boats running around with IMCO 5052 aluminum tanks, i have never seen one corrode away from the inside due to fuel. The only time i've seen them fail is from something rubbing on the outside, or when the outside of the tank is exposed to lots of moisture but not fully submerged (ie the foam the tank is set in is saturated) and it never dries and electrolysis starts doing it work over the coarse of years. Mainly boats that are sitting in the water for extended times and always have water in the bilge, and it's a keel tank. But this is pretty rare.


5052 Aluminum tanks are perfectly fine for ethanol.

I have the original marine grade aluminum belly tank in my 26yr old Mirage,no problems so far, running reg 87 oct with the 6.2 mercs.:thumbup:Some people fabricate their own tanks not bothering with what grade it is.If my tank start corroding,I'll build the new one out of s/s.

 

[H20-ski]

Here is a crappy quick pics from early this morning.

I like the other pics better.

 

[spectras only]

Not looking to change power. This is a school bus, not a hotrod.

After seeing the one in TN I think, that had 1100 HP that went 80. Cemented any ideas about that.

Brian

Always wondered what the twin engined 24 Spectra [ black ] that Greg Shoemaker restored do speed wise and if it had belly tank, or saddles? Anyone know the whereabouts or ownership of that boat,now?

 

[wsuwrhr]

I like the other pics better.

Which other?

 

[OLDRAAT]

Brian,

Good luck with your project. I think it will make a great addition to your toy box and provide many hours of enjoyment for the family, especially knowing who it previously belonged to.:thumbsup

OR

 

[Racey]

I have the original marine grade aluminum belly tank in my 26yr old Mirage,no problems so far, running reg 87 oct with the 6.2 mercs.:thumbup:Some people fabricate their own tanks not bothering with what grade it is.If my tank start corroding,I'll build the new one out of s/s.

The problem with large SS tanks is because of the nature of 300 series stainless, work hardening, and heat brittleness, they can be very susceptible to cracking at the welds. You really need to back purge the entire tank and open root weld it so that you don't end up with sugaring on the inside of the weld growing an inclusion and crack. backpurging a tank like that and welding it open root is $$$$$$$$. Not to mention the expense of the material in the first place. Save your money for your exotic car collection and put another 5052 alum tank in

Smaller tanks you can get away with because the ratio of overall size to wall thickness is better, but large tanks you need to be very careful about how they are fabricated.

 

[Cole Trickle]

get out the vacuum and wash bucket...Have 2forcefull over for the day and he will have that thing buffed to perfection lickity split!!

 

[wsuwrhr]

Just got it on Friday, some of us have a job to do, and don't have OCD.

What difference does it make if I have to tear all that shit out to replace tanks?

Brian

get out the vacuum and wash bucket...Have 2forcefull over for the day and he will have that thing buffed to perfection lickity split!!

 

[Willie B]

Not looking to change power. This is a school bus, not a hotrod.

After seeing the one in TN, I think, that had 1100 HP and went a blistering 80. Cemented any ideas about that.

Brian

... I have a call into Fred Thompson who I bought my Spectra 24 from...Fred ran Spectra Marines Burbank Marine store and Fred knows these boats...I'm going to ask him what is the optimum in fuel tank placement...

... I can tell you this about adding horse power to those boats...If you do add big horse power the engine has to be moved forward an exact amount... I realize you are not planning on adding big horse power now but I will find out what that measurement is anyway so you can file it away in your memory bank... You never know???...

 

[wsuwrhr]

Thank you, I appreciate that.

... I have a call into Fred Thompson who I bought my Spectra 24 from...Fred ran Spectra Marines Burbank Marine store and Fred knows these boats...I'm going to ask him what is the optimum in fuel tank placement...

... I can tell you this about adding horse power to those boats...If you do add big horse power the engine has to be moved forward an exact amount... I realize you are not planning on adding big horse power now but I will find out what that measurement is anyway so you can file it away in your memory bank... You never know???...

 

[milkmoney]

Jus want to say congrats Brian , glad it's staying close to home. Carl is happy about that. [emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji202]

 

[Willie B]

Thank you, I appreciate that.

... OK here we go about the placement of the fuel tanks... Fred has had numerous Campbell's and numerous Spectra's...his feeling from his experience with the fuel tanks in the floor the boat was more stable...With gunnel tanks the boat had a tendency to rock on top of the water,...side to side and if you were to run out of fuel in one tank,...the boat would tilt...

... As far as moving the engine forward when adding horsepower I was wrong...what needs to be done is the V Drive moved forward and the strut move forward or else the big horsepower will bury the nose of the boat...
... As far as how far to move the Strut and V-Drive forward he was unsure and kind of vacillated back-and-forth between 6 inches and 12 inches...there are people out there that have done this who would know...

... So it is sounding more more like building aluminum tanks and sliding them into the casings of the old glass tanks is the way to go???...

 

[Rattle Can Lou]

I have done this to a Schiada and it worked slick..just cut the top out of the tanks...clean accordingly and take really good measurements to build the new ones...you can foam them in if you feel the need...but just cut the fills out of the fiberglass top you cut out and place them exactly the same in the new tanks...I then put the fiberglass top back on after grinding about 2" on either side of my cut...laid it back in and glassed the top back on...if you need a hole for the sending unit...just cut it out.

My feeling today is these older boats have too big of tanks in them anyway...it used to be that the fuel could sit in them over the winter or summer and it didn't matter....today we need to keep FRESH fuel in them because it goes bad so fast...so a little less fuel capacity with new tanks is not going to matter much...JMO

 

[wsuwrhr]

What do you think the number should be for fuel capacity?

I have done this to a Schiada and it worked slick..just cut the top out of the tanks...clean accordingly and take really good measurements to build the new ones...you can foam them in if you feel the need...but just cut the fills out of the fiberglass top you cut out and place them exactly the same in the new tanks...I then put the fiberglass top back on after grinding about 2" on either side of my cut...laid it back in and glassed the top back on...if you need a hole for the sending unit...just cut it out.

My feeling today is these older boats have too big of tanks in them anyway...it used to be that the fuel could sit in them over the winter or summer and it didn't matter....today we need to keep FRESH fuel in them because it goes bad so fast...so a little less fuel capacity with new tanks is not going to matter much...JMO

 

[wsuwrhr]

I feel the same. Fuel in the belly is a better idea.

I can make whatever I need anyway. the shitty part is chopping up the floor to R&R them.


Brian

... OK here we go about the placement of the fuel tanks... Fred has had numerous Campbell's and numerous Spectra's...his feeling from his experience with the fuel tanks in the floor the boat was more stable...With gunnel tanks the boat had a tendency to rock on top of the water,...side to side and if you were to run out of fuel in one tank,...the boat would tilt...

 

[jones performance]

as cool as it would be to keep the og 13' turbines, your better off finding a set of 14' turbines to keep the look. tires are pretty much impossible to find for 13' these days.

 

[Willie B]

I feel the same. Fuel in the belly is a better idea.

I can make whatever I need anyway. the shitty part is chopping up the floor to R&R them.


Brian

... I have no idea how Howard did the floors in their 24's...In my Spectra,...Fred had already put new floors into it and they are done in three pieces which works just fine...Where the center section of the floor meets the outer pieces They are adjoined half on each of the inner stringers and screwed to the stringers with stainless Countersunk screws I think???...

... I know it seems like a major job to cut the floor out of the boat but it really isn't... I did it to my other day cruiser and made new floors... Make sure that you set the depth of your Skil Saw just a tad less than the thickness of the floor material to ensure that you do not cut into any of the stringers...What I used for the floors was 10 ply construction grade plywood that I got at Home Depot...it is cheap...I then coated the ply with West Systems Epoxy,...to make sure that no water gets into the end grain or the flat surface...
... When thinking about your new floors keep in mind that cutting them possibly into a three piece floor deal and make them in such a way so it seems easiest to remove the sections should you ever need to...