Anyone tow "heavy" with a 2014-2017 Silverado 1500 ?

[wsuwrhr]

Fucking grammar police....

Just the spelling police, for now.

 

[4Waters]

I was trying to figure out what a WEGIT was.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

So you're saying I make the whole story up?? lol

You kids are funny, you think you KNOW everything! And if you've never seen it, it didn't happen. Oh to be young and dumb.

Listen up, and I'll explain it to you...

Its called WEIGT. My truck weighs almost 8k EMPTY! What does a modern half ton weigh? Maybe half of that if your lucky?? Weight on the tires equals friction. Friction where the rubber meets the road, and this friend is everything. You put a 10k trailer behind a 4k lb truck, and what do you think will happen?? You're gonna bash right into the fuck face that cut you off. The trailer will shove you right into the car in front of you. And there wont be a dam thing you can do about it. Except cry to somebody, "but my truck is rated for it!" I'm sure your insurance company has never heard that story before.

Yes, my dinosaur has ABS on the rear. Yes, I run the tires maxed out when I'm towing (they need to be maxed to support the weight, read your tire info and see).

Some of you may not know this, but a vehicle with ABS will take more distance to stop than a non ABS vehicle in a full panic stop. The ONLY advantage ABS gives you is the ability to steer during a full panic stop.

What have we learned to far then? My dinosaur, cause it weighs so much, will stop in much shorter distance than any four wheel ABS half ton truck, because there is more friction between the tire and the road. Simple when you think about it.

And if you don't wanna think about it, take your new truck and make two panic stops, one with the ABS on, and one with the ABS off. We all had to do this back in the day during dealership training when ABS first came out. They NEEDED us to understand how it worked. We spent half the day in the classroom and half the day at the track. We all learned a lot that day.

I run good brake pads and forged wheels and E rated 8 ply on the tread tires. I run LT tires on my trailer as well, and the biggest tire I could fit on the trailer also to max out the capacity.

And lastly, this whole thread is about towing WAY over weight! lol

I challenge ALL of you to take your truck (with boat or trailer attached) to the scale, post up with the results (yes, they will give you a detailed print out) and then post up the specs of your truck. I'll bet that most of you, that even if you are within the towing spec on your truck, your over on the GCVWR. And this particular spec is the one that matters the most.

A modern halfton quad cad is over 5000 lbs.

And no this thread is not about towing over the rated weight of your truck. It is about towing near that limit.

You can’t turn ABS off these days without pulling fuses. Your info about ABS creating longer stopping distances is from 25 years ago. Modern ABS systems stop cars in shorter distances more safely, period. They have dynamic proportional 4 channel control over each wheel individually now, not single channel per axle crap like they did 25 years ago.

If you think your dinosaur truck with rear ABS only is safer than a modern truck with 4 wheels independent ABS, stability, sway, skid and traction control you are out of your mind.

Those old trucks had single channel ABS that was crap compared to the individual wheels systems hey had today. Do 10 panic stops in your truck and then in a modern 1/2 ton and see which ones stops shorter and which ones suffers brake fade and become useless first.

We haven’t even talked about air bags, side air bags and all the other safety improvement built into all the new incapable 1/2 ton trucks that the MFGs are lying about their capabilities.

 

[rivermobster]

Modern ABS systems stop cars in shorter distances more safely, period. .

Prove it.

A modern halfton quad cad is over 5000 lbs.

And no this thread is not about towing over the rated weight of your truck. It is about towing near that limit.

You can’t turn ABS off these days without pulling fuses. Your info about ABS creating longer stopping distances is from 25 years ago. Modern ABS systems stop cars in shorter distances more safely, period. They have dynamic proportional 4 channel control over each wheel individually now, not single channel per axle crap like they did 25 years ago.

If you think your dinosaur truck with rear ABS only is safer than a modern truck with 4 wheels independent ABS, stability, sway, skid and traction control you are out of your mind.

Those old trucks had single channel ABS that was crap compared to the individual wheels systems hey had today. Do 10 panic stops in your truck and then in a modern 1/2 ton and see which ones stops shorter and which ones suffers brake fade and become useless first.

We haven’t even talked about air bags, side air bags and all the other safety improvement built into all the new incapable 1/2 ton trucks that the MFGs are lying about their capabilities.

You are missing two things, and ill state em again for you...

IF your towing capacity is 10k, and your towing 9k, I'll bet your over on the combined vehicle weight rating of your vehicle. Prove me wrong.

Second, a vehicle with ABS takes longer to stop when a vehicle without ABS. Prove me wrong.

I'll be waiting...

 

[spectra3279]

Prove it.



You are missing two things, and ill state em again for you...

IF your towing capacity is 10k, and your towing 9k, I'll bet your over on the combined vehicle weight rating of your vehicle. Prove me wrong.

Second, a vehicle with ABS takes longer to stop when a vehicle without ABS. Prove me wrong.

I'll be waiting...

Abs from what I have seen only helps stop in a shorter distance if the road is wet or some other type of slippery, sand, gravel, ice. And if you don't lock up the wheels on the nonabs

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[lbhsbz]

So you're saying I make the whole story up?? lol

You kids are funny, you think you KNOW everything! And if you've never seen it, it didn't happen. Oh to be young and dumb.

Listen up, and I'll explain it to you...

Its called WEIGHT. My truck weighs almost 8k EMPTY! What does a modern half ton weigh? Maybe half of that if your lucky?? Weight on the tires equals friction. Friction where the rubber meets the road, and this friend is everything. You put a 10k trailer behind a 4k lb truck, and what do you think will happen??

If the trailer brakes are adequate and working correctly, nothing out of the ordinary.

You're gonna bash right into the fuck face that cut you off. The trailer will shove you right into the car in front of you. And there wont be a dam thing you can do about it. Except cry to somebody, "but my truck is rated for it!" I'm sure your insurance company has never heard that story before.

No. Leave enough room, expect everyone on the road to do something stupid, and you'll not find yourself in situations like that

Yes, my dinosaur has ABS on the rear. Yes, I run the tires maxed out when I'm towing (they need to be maxed to support the weight, read your tire info and see).

If you'll take notice of the picture you posted...would you say that the front axle has significantly more weight over it with the trailer hooked up than without?

Some of you may not know this, but a vehicle with ABS will take more distance to stop than a non ABS vehicle in a full panic stop. The ONLY advantage ABS gives you is the ability to steer during a full panic stop.

What have we learned to far then? My dinosaur, cause it weighs so much, will stop in much shorter distance than any four wheel ABS half ton truck, because there is more friction between the tire and the road. Simple when you think about it.

And if you don't wanna think about it, take your new truck and make two panic stops, one with the ABS on, and one with the ABS off. We all had to do this back in the day during dealership training when ABS first came out. They NEEDED us to understand how it worked. We spent half the day in the classroom and half the day at the track. We all learned a lot that day.

I run good brake pads and forged wheels and E rated 8 ply on the tread tires. I run LT tires on my trailer as well, and the biggest tire I could fit on the trailer also to max out the capacity.

And lastly, this whole thread is about towing WAY over weight! lol

I challenge ALL of you to take your truck (with boat or trailer attached) to the scale, post up with the results (yes, they will give you a detailed print out) and then post up the specs of your truck. I'll bet that most of you, that even if you are within the towing spec on your truck, your over on the GCVWR. And this particular spec is the one that matters the most.

Take note of the parts of your post I've highlighted in red.

I don't know the exact details on your truck...so I'll assume a 2003-ish F350 CCLB diesel 4x4. This truck, with the heaviest options, has a front axle rating of 5200lbs, or 2600lbs per tire.

Not knowing what tire size, I looked up a BFG 285/65/R20 which is rated at 3860lbs. Even the little tires I have on my truck are rated at 3400lbs, so let's assume somewhere in the middle of 3600lbs @ 80psi.

With 80psi in both front tires, they can safely carry an axle weight of 7200 lbs, which is 2000lbs more than your axle is good for...about 30% more actually. This tire would be more correctly inflated to 60-65 psi to carry the load that exists...unless of course you're exceeding the front axle rating with your setup..which I don't think is happening.

What's the difference in contact patch of that tire at 80psi vs that tire at the correct 60-65psi with a axle rated load on it, and how do you think that will affect your braking performance?

If you locked up the front wheels, it's your own damn fault for not understanding how tires and their inflation guidelines work. Take them down to a more appropriate pressure, and they'll stick to the road a lot better.

You old guys are funny.

 

[spectras only]

I’m sorry for your friend Brian, but there is a difference in towing near the limit and grossly over the limit of your vehicle.

Sounds like instead of a 3/4 ton truck you should just buy a dash cam.

There's a good reason for why almost every car in Russia has one! Cheap insurance.

 

[wsuwrhr]

No. Leave enough room, expect everyone on the road to do something stupid, and you'll not find yourself in situations like that

Right, because that is even possible.

 

[spectras only]

So you're saying I make the whole story up?? lol

You kids are funny, you think you KNOW everything! And if you've never seen it, it didn't happen. Oh to be young and dumb.

Listen up, and I'll explain it to you...

Its called WEIGT. My truck weighs almost 8k EMPTY! What does a modern half ton weigh? Maybe half of that if your lucky?? Weight on the tires equals friction. Friction where the rubber meets the road, and this friend is everything. You put a 10k trailer behind a 4k lb truck, and what do you think will happen?? You're gonna bash right into the fuck face that cut you off. The trailer will shove you right into the car in front of you. And there wont be a dam thing you can do about it. Except cry to somebody, "but my truck is rated for it!" I'm sure your insurance company has never heard that story before.

Yes, my dinosaur has ABS on the rear. Yes, I run the tires maxed out when I'm towing (they need to be maxed to support the weight, read your tire info and see).

Some of you may not know this, but a vehicle with ABS will take more distance to stop than a non ABS vehicle in a full panic stop. The ONLY advantage ABS gives you is the ability to steer during a full panic stop.

What have we learned to far then? My dinosaur, cause it weighs so much, will stop in much shorter distance than any four wheel ABS half ton truck, because there is more friction between the tire and the road. Simple when you think about it.

And if you don't wanna think about it, take your new truck and make two panic stops, one with the ABS on, and one with the ABS off. We all had to do this back in the day during dealership training when ABS first came out. They NEEDED us to understand how it worked. We spent half the day in the classroom and half the day at the track. We all learned a lot that day.

I run good brake pads and forged wheels and E rated 8 ply on the tread tires. I run LT tires on my trailer as well, and the biggest tire I could fit on the trailer also to max out the capacity.

And lastly, this whole thread is about towing WAY over weight! lol

I challenge ALL of you to take your truck (with boat or trailer attached) to the scale, post up with the results (yes, they will give you a detailed print out) and then post up the specs of your truck. I'll bet that most of you, that even if you are within the towing spec on your truck, your over on the GCVWR. And this particular spec is the one that matters the most.

Just FYI, I pull through truck scales every time taking my boat, TT to a destination just for shits and giggles. never been close to the GCVW 17000, got it? Maybe you argument about weight suggest, we all 1/2 owners should just tow half what the manufacturers recommend,lol. talking about splitting hairs here. OK, I'll replace my F-150 with a Kenwood tractor [ 20.000lbs fueled ] to prove that your 350 with hydraulic brakes are no match to airbrakes to stop a heavy load. Even your 8000lbs truck not even close to a perfect weght balance to your toy hauler that's over 10-13000 pounds loaded. I'm out, fruitless conversation!

 

[lbhsbz]

Right, because that is even possible.

It improves one's odds significantly.

 

[rivrrts429]

Forced everyone in the group to sell their F250s and buy 350s and 450s overnight.

I’ve got my commercial class A license, and although I️ no longer use it professionally, I️ keep it current. Just went to DMV this morning to renew my medical card.

It’s not just the truck but also the correct license. 10k lb + for ball mount and 15k lb + for 5th wheel, I️ believe.

For those without a commercial license you can get a non-commercial endorsement for the RV. Since I️ already drove semi in a prior life and my license is current it covers me with my toyhauler.

 

[wsuwrhr]

It improves one's odds significantly.

So does staying at home and hiding under the covers.

Your statement, however funny, I hope is hyperbole.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

So you're saying I make the whole story up?? lol

You kids are funny, you think you KNOW everything! And if you've never seen it, it didn't happen. Oh to be young and dumb.

Listen up, and I'll explain it to you...

Its called WEIGT. My truck weighs almost 8k EMPTY! What does a modern half ton weigh? Maybe half of that if your lucky?? Weight on the tires equals friction. Friction where the rubber meets the road, and this friend is everything. You put a 10k trailer behind a 4k lb truck, and what do you think will happen?? You're gonna bash right into the fuck face that cut you off. The trailer will shove you right into the car in front of you. And there wont be a dam thing you can do about it. Except cry to somebody, "but my truck is rated for it!" I'm sure your insurance company has never heard that story before.

Yes, my dinosaur has ABS on the rear. Yes, I run the tires maxed out when I'm towing (they need to be maxed to support the weight, read your tire info and see).

Some of you may not know this, but a vehicle with ABS will take more distance to stop than a non ABS vehicle in a full panic stop. The ONLY advantage ABS gives you is the ability to steer during a full panic stop.

What have we learned to far then? My dinosaur, cause it weighs so much, will stop in much shorter distance than any four wheel ABS half ton truck, because there is more friction between the tire and the road. Simple when you think about it.

And if you don't wanna think about it, take your new truck and make two panic stops, one with the ABS on, and one with the ABS off. We all had to do this back in the day during dealership training when ABS first came out. They NEEDED us to understand how it worked. We spent half the day in the classroom and half the day at the track. We all learned a lot that day.

I run good brake pads and forged wheels and E rated 8 ply on the tread tires. I run LT tires on my trailer as well, and the biggest tire I could fit on the trailer also to max out the capacity.

And lastly, this whole thread is about towing WAY over weight! lol

I challenge ALL of you to take your truck (with boat or trailer attached) to the scale, post up with the results (yes, they will give you a detailed print out) and then post up the specs of your truck. I'll bet that most of you, that even if you are within the towing spec on your truck, your over on the GCVWR. And this particular spec is the one that matters the most.

Besides the fact that the technology you are using to support your theory is very much antiquated, your comparison of ABS vehicles to non-ABS vehicles is also assuming both have equal brakes when no ABS is applied. The large problem with that is, today's trucks have FAR suppior braking systems than those from 20 years ago. The sway and traction control systems are tied into the ABS to modulate the braking effect on each tire so the vehicle and load stop as effeciently as possibke without having to lock up or engage the ABS.

So, yes.... a 1/2 ton towing 11k WILL stop shorter and more controlled than a early 2000's 3/4 ton with 14k (similar weight to rating ratio for each, ballparked). Shit, it would probably stop shorter and better than one with a 11k load.

Also, the integrated trailer brake comtroller that ties into the truck computer to add additional computerized braking to the equation.

 

[lbhsbz]

So does staying at home and hiding under the covers.

Your statement, however funny, I hope is hyperbole.

I do what I can to make sure my excitement begins after I arrive at my destination when I'm towing the boat.

 

[wsuwrhr]

I do what I can to make sure my excitement begins after I arrive at my destination when I'm towing the boat.

As we all do.

 

[spectras only]

For those without a commercial license you can get a non-commercial endorsement for the RV. Since I️ already drove semi in a prior life and my license is current it covers me with my toyhauler.

Here in the great white north, a endorsement is required towing over 10200 lbs. Also, airbrake endorsement [ I have ] is required for diesel pushers with air brakes. Only gassers are exempt. Only in the land of free, people get away driving 40+ tag axle mohos driving without one,lol.

 

[pronstar]

Wanna know how a race car loses time? It locks the brakes up and skates too far into the turn.

A locked tire - be it sideways or in a straight line - has little traction.

How many real race cars do you see drifting in a corner? None.

It's the same principle braking or accelerating - exceeding the traction of the surface is not good.

The absolute shortest stopping distance in any vehicle, is at "impending lockup" which is on the verge of locking up, while retaining traction.

It's not possible to hold all 4 wheels at impending lockup with a single pedal - the braking systems' electronics can do it, and ABS is part of this system. The system needs wheel speed info to hold impending lockup.

Show me any car that posts the fastest times with wheelslip - it doesn't exist.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[pronstar]

The exceptions where locking a wheel yields shorter stopping distances, is on snow and gravel, where the locked wheel builds up a berm of material in front of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Abs from what I have seen only helps stop in a shorter distance if the road is wet or some other type of slippery, sand, gravel, ice. And if you don't lock up the wheels on the nonabs

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

Have fun threshold braking perfectly to avoid wheel lockup in every stopping situation, every time. What if one front tire hits a bit of dirt, gravel or water and locks up? Tell your family how ABS “stops longer” with your truck and 5th wheel off the side of the road in the ditch.

 

[rivrrts429]

Here in the great white north, a endorsement is required towing over 10200 lbs. Also, airbrake endorsement [ I have ] is required for diesel pushers with air brakes. Only gassers are exempt. Only in the land of free, people get away driving 40+ tag axle mohos driving without one,lol.

They did away with the air brake endorsement for our commercial license but still make you test for it on both the written and driving. Instead of it being an endorsement it is now included with your commercial license, which makes sense.

I️ do think these snowbirds could use a lesson on how the system works, how to make sure it’s working properly and holding pressure, and how to adjust air brakes. They just drive these MoHo’s until the brakes cam over and then bad mouth the manufacturer on the rv forums lol

I’ve got all my endorsements still (tank, doubles/triples, etc..) except for HazMat. That HazMat deal was a pain in the ass with TSA background checks so I️ let that one fall off.

Once you’ve tested and/or operated in a large truck it opens your eyes to how serious of a situation you can find yourself in while towing just a small amount of weight. I️ tend to lean towards having the biggest tow vehicle I️ can afford because of it. It’s not me that I️ worry about, it’s everyone else around me.

He’ll, I️ use a dually to tow my little 21’ lol

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Prove it.



You are missing two things, and ill state em again for you...

IF your towing capacity is 10k, and your towing 9k, I'll bet your over on the combined vehicle weight rating of your vehicle. Prove me wrong.

Second, a vehicle with ABS takes longer to stop when a vehicle without ABS. Prove me wrong.

I'll be waiting...

First no one is talking about towing beyond the weight limits of a vehicle.


So you want me to prove that modern vehicles are less safe and have less capable braking systems than they did 20 years ago? Is it because modern trucks have larger rotors, and calipers capable of dealing with more brake heat? Is it because modern trucks have larger, wider, stickier tires that yield shorter stopping distances? That is what you are basing your argument on - That something inferior in all areas is somehow better?

You are asking me to prove why ABS is disallowed or handicapped in some racing classes because you think it is somehow a performance disadvantage, and why anyone competing or racing in a vehicle desires ABS if they can use it and will yield more consistent, faster laps with it.

I race a car with no ABS. I would LOVE to put ABS on it, because my lap times would improve.

I don’t have to prove anything because the argument is laughable. Even if you could pull one stop out of your ass that was 1 foot shorter with ABS disabled (which I agree is possible) ANY debris or water on the road in the real world will extend stopping distances. And you are betting that you can better the performance of modern ABS (not the 25 year old archaic ABS systems) EVERY stop at ANY time in EVERY condition. Your argument is to just lock up the wheels in a panic stop and trade stopping distances with control.

Yea go ahead and drive around with your ABS disabled. Put a carburetor back on the truck while you are at it.

 

[rivermobster]

If you'll take notice of the picture you posted...would you say that the front axle has significantly more weight over it with the trailer hooked up than without?



Take note of the parts of your post I've highlighted in red.

I don't know the exact details on your truck...so I'll assume a 2003-ish F350 CCLB diesel 4x4. This truck, with the heaviest options, has a front axle rating of 5200lbs, or 2600lbs per tire.

Not knowing what tire size, I looked up a BFG 285/65/R20 which is rated at 3860lbs. Even the little tires I have on my truck are rated at 3400lbs, so let's assume somewhere in the middle of 3600lbs @ 80psi.

With 80psi in both front tires, they can safely carry an axle weight of 7200 lbs, which is 2000lbs more than your axle is good for...about 30% more actually. This tire would be more correctly inflated to 60-65 psi to carry the load that exists...unless of course you're exceeding the front axle rating with your setup..which I don't think is happening.

What's the difference in contact patch of that tire at 80psi vs that tire at the correct 60-65psi with a axle rated load on it, and how do you think that will affect your braking performance?

If you locked up the front wheels, it's your own damn fault for not understanding how tires and their inflation guidelines work. Take them down to a more appropriate pressure, and they'll stick to the road a lot better.

You old guys are funny.

The answer to your first question, I would guess to be yes, since I run a WD hitch.

I run 65psi in my tires towing and about 35psi empty. 65psi is the max inflation pressure for the Toyo's I have and they are rated for 3400lb at that pressure. Could I run em lower? Maybe, but I don't wanna find out...

Do you know why just about every new car has a tire inflation monitor?? Because the majority of tire blow outs happen due to under inflated tires. The tires flex more when they are under inflated, build up excessive heat, and blow the sidewalls out. The .gov mandated inflation monitors mainly due to this issue.

I really don't wanna find out the hard way i ran em too low on pressure. To change the contact patch, I would have to drop them a significant amount, and I'm not going to take that chance. Also, lower inflated tires wear faster, I usually get 50 to 60k on these particular tires. I'm about ready for my third set.

You can try your theory on your truck though! Let us know how it works out for you.

 

[rivermobster]

First no one is talking about towing beyond the weight limits of a vehicle.


So you want me to prove that modern vehicles are less safe and have less capable braking systems than they did 20 years ago? Is it because modern trucks have larger rotors, and calipers capable of dealing with more brake heat? Is it because modern trucks have larger, wider, stickier tires that yield shorter stopping distances? That is what you are basing your argument on - That something inferior in all areas is somehow better?

You are asking me to prove why ABS is disallowed or handicapped in some racing classes because you think it is somehow a performance disadvantage, and why anyone competing or racing in a vehicle desires ABS if they can use it and will yield more consistent, faster laps with it.

I race a car with no ABS. I would LOVE to put ABS on it, because my lap times would improve.

I don’t have to prove anything because the argument is laughable. Even if you could pull one stop out of your ass that was 1 foot shorter with ABS disabled (which I agree is possible) ANY debris or water on the road in the real world will extend stopping distances. And you are betting that you can better the performance of modern ABS (not the 25 year old archaic ABS systems) EVERY stop at ANY time in EVERY condition. Your argument is to just lock up the wheels in a panic stop and trade stopping distances with control.

Yea go ahead and drive around with your ABS disabled. Put a carburetor back on the truck while you are at it.

Last time I am gonna say this.............

A vehicle with ABS takes longer to stop than a vehicle without ABS.

(notice I said NOTHING about old vs. new?)

Please make a note of it THIS time.

Also, the topic of this thread is towing a toy hauler with a half ton truck. NOT about ABS.

 

[wsuwrhr]

He’ll, I️ use a dually to tow my little 21’ lol

Blaspheme!!!

I imagine a Yugo is probably rated to tow that. What a waste of a dually. I have three half tons you can underload and use next time.

 

[wsuwrhr]

Last time I am gonna say this.............

A vehicle with ABS takes longer to stop than a vehicle without ABS.

(notice I said NOTHING about old vs. new?)

Please make a note of it THIS time.

Also, the topic of this thread is towing a toy hauler with a half ton truck. NOT about ABS.

Noted.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Last time I am gonna say this.............

A vehicle with ABS takes longer to stop than a vehicle without ABS.

(notice I said NOTHING about old vs. new?)

Please make a note of it THIS time.

Also, the topic of this thread is towing a toy hauler with a half ton truck. NOT about ABS.

I’m glad that is the last time you are going to say it, because that is the last time you’ll be WRONG, especially considering that in less than ideal conditions like in rain or with dirt or debris on the road your claim is 100% false.

Have fun driving on your D shaped tires you got 1 panic stop out of .


And yes.. no one is talking about overloading their 1/2 ton. And modern ABS is one reason why the 1/2 ton tow ratings have been increased.

 

[wsuwrhr]

I run 65psi in my tires towing and about 35psi empty. 65psi is the max inflation pressure for the Toyo's I have and they are rated for 3400lb at that pressure. Could I run em lower? Maybe, but I don't wanna find out...

Just curious....I have always ran tires at the PSI listed on the tire. I realize that is the max rated weight at the max psi. But I figured that was where the tire was happiest. Why do you run the tires at almost half the rated psi when not towing? I imagine the ride may be better, but doesn't that increase the rolling resistance?

Just curious why is all,

Thanks,

Brian

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Just curious....I have always ran tires at the PSI listed on the tire. I realize that is the max rated weight at the max psi. But I figured that was where the tire was happiest. Why do you run the tires at almost half the rated psi when not towing? I imagine the ride may be better, but doesn't that increase the rolling resistance?

Just curious why is all,

Thanks,

Brian

Because if you run around with no load, or even half load at max PSI the tire will not wear evenly, and it will ride like shit.

 

[wsuwrhr]

Just curious....I have always ran tires at the PSI listed on the tire. I realize that is the max rated weight at the max psi. But I figured that was where the tire was happiest. Why do you run the tires at almost half the rated psi when not towing? I imagine the ride may be better, but doesn't that increase the rolling resistance?

Just curious why is all,

Thanks,

Brian

Because if you run around with no load, or even half load at max PSI the tire will not wear evenly, and it will ride like shit.

So, yes?

 

[highvoltagehands]

While all the 3/4 ton diesel crew cab 4x4 guys sit back and laugh at the endless talk about towing heavy with a 1/2 ton 2wd trucks.

I wonder if the 1/2 ton gasser guys counting the money they saved and laughing at all the extra money being spent on unnecessary 3/4 ton trucks and diesel fuel?

 

[Danger Dave]

I keep enough air in my tires to keep the light on the dash off.

 

[rvrrun]

Just curious....I have always ran tires at the PSI listed on the tire. I realize that is the max rated weight at the max psi. But I figured that was where the tire was happiest. Why do you run the tires at almost half the rated psi when not towing? I imagine the ride may be better, but doesn't that increase the rolling resistance?

Just curious why is all,

Thanks,

Brian

I go with what's on the mfgr sticker in the driver door jamb. The tire on your vehicle might have been used on who knows how many dissimilar vehicles of varying size and weight. The big exception to that is my '32, it uses LT tires on the rear to get the look right and I run about 22 lbs in those to keep it from riding like a truck.

...and I'll agree that non abs stops better, if the vehicle is being driven by a computer with separate brake pedals for each corner. I know I can't modulate the pedal faster than an ECU, especially in a panic situation.

 

[rivermobster]

I’m glad that is the last time you are going to say it, because that is the last time you’ll be WRONG, especially considering that in less than ideal conditions like in rain or with dirt or debris on the road your claim is 100% false.

Have fun driving on your D shaped tires you got 1 panic stop out of .


And yes.. no one is talking about overloading their 1/2 ton. And modern ABS is one reason why the 1/2 ton tow ratings have been increased.

Hahaha...

That was maybe four sets of tires ago!!!

And no, not wrong. Like I said before, had to take classes at the dealership level, with more than one manufacturer, repeatedly on it. So I've seen the results first hand, on the same car, with and without ABS. Dry pavement. These are classes you have to take when you work at the dealership. The expect you to understand how all of these systems work, well before you have to diagnose a problem.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Hahaha...

That was maybe four sets of tires ago!!!

And no, not wrong. Like I said before, had to take classes at the dealership level, with more than one manufacturer, repeatedly on it. So I've seen the results first hand, on the same car, with and without ABS. Dry pavement. These are classes you have to take when you work at the dealership. The expect you to understand how all of these systems work, well before you have to diagnose a problem.

And that was what, decades ago. The flaw in your logic is that technology stopped evolving when you took your class and learned about ABS.

The whole reason ABS was put in cars was for CONTROLLED panic stops in ANY condition.

So by your own admission, testing you did was only done on a clean, and dry road. I guess you just sit home when it is rainy or windy out? Or if there is any debris on the road, if the road is uneven or cracked you must just stop and turn around.... because you care about your family’s safety, right? Since ABS does not stop the car, what is someone to do???


You were right 25 years ago, but not today.

 

[lbhsbz]

The answer to your first question, I would guess to be yes, since I run a WD hitch.

I run 65psi in my tires towing and about 35psi empty. 65psi is the max inflation pressure for the Toyo's I have and they are rated for 3400lb at that pressure. Could I run em lower? Maybe, but I don't wanna find out...

Do you know why just about every new car has a tire inflation monitor?? Because the majority of tire blow outs happen due to under inflated tires. The tires flex more when they are under inflated, build up excessive heat, and blow the sidewalls out. The .gov mandated inflation monitors mainly due to this issue.

I really don't wanna find out the hard way i ran em too low on pressure. To change the contact patch, I would have to drop them a significant amount, and I'm not going to take that chance. Also, lower inflated tires wear faster, I usually get 50 to 60k on these particular tires. I'm about ready for my third set.

You can try your theory on your truck though! Let us know how it works out for you.

It's not a theory.

So, yes?

I'll use my truck as an example here.

285/75/16 BFG A/Ts on a 1500HD GM truck. sidewall says 3750lbs max load at 80 psi. Unloaded, with 65psi in the tires, only the center of the tire is contacting the road. There is about 2" on either side of the tire that never touches the road. If I put 2000lbs of load in the bed, then the contact patch will be the full width of the tire. I will never need to put 80psi in my tires because the GVWR is 8600lbs (IIRC). 3750lbs x 4 tires = 15,000lbs lbs, which exceeds the trucks max weight by 6400lbs. No sense being anywhere near max pressure.

The stock tires had a max load at 3042 @ 80psi.

The door sticker calls for 80psi rear (RA GAWR is 6000lbs) and 50psi front (FR. GAWR is 4410). Why didn't GM spec the front tires to the same inflation as the rear? ...because it will never be carrying a load that requires 80psi, and braking and handling will be lousy.

I can't find the chart for my BFGs, but here's the Toyo chart: https://toyo-arhxo0vh6d1oh9i0c.stac...ication_of_load_inflation_tables_20170203.pdf
Have a look at page 12.

Lets assume I was using the 37x13.5R17LT (5th one down). On my truck, with a front GAWR of 4410, 25psi would be sufficient. I might increase that a bit to get rid of any "squishy" handling characteristics, but probably not much...anything over about 35psi is just starting to turn it into a bicycle tire shape, which helps fuel economy, but hurts handling and braking.

The rear I'd never need to run over 40psi.


Yes, overinflating the tire will result in less rolling resistance, but it will also result in significantly reduced traction due to the reduced contact patch. I was hauling loads of dirt and had the rear tires up at about 65psi last year and after I was done, didn't get a chance to air back down for a few days. It rained that night, and driving empty, it went sideways on me a couple times around relatively low speed corners. Aired back down, it sticks just fine. I generally fill mine to 40, and that way they stay over 35psi until the next oil change, when I check them again. It's a bit higher than necessary, but handling is improved.

The ONLY argument for running more pressure than necessary is fuel economy...and it doesn't make much difference. If we gave a shit about fuel economy, we wouldn't be driving big ass trucks.

Higher tire pressure will NOT result in longer tire life...it will not. It will wear the center of the tread out faster. The correct pressure that provides a good contact patch for the load will result in the best tire wear, handling and braking.

In Rivermob's F tree fiddy, the front tires (using the above mentioned toyo as an example) shouldn't need to be over 35psi...towing or not. Unless he's got 7000lbs over the rear axle, the rears don't need to be anywhere near 65psi and there won't be any benefit to it. How much tongue weight does the trailer add? 600-700lbs maybe? put another 5 psi in 'em and call it a day.

Use the chart and use the door jamb pressure spec decal. Determine the load capacity of the OE sized tires at the specified pressure, then use the chart to determine what PSI is needed to match that load capacity with whatever oversized tires you're using, and that's a good starting point for the truck operating at max GVW. Adjust for lighter loads.

 

[rivermobster]

And that was what, decades ago. The flaw in your logic is that technology stopped evolving when you took your class and learned about ABS.

The whole reason ABS was put in cars was for CONTROLLED panic stops in ANY condition.

So by your own admission, testing you did was only done on a clean, and dry road. I guess you just sit home when it is rainy or windy out? Or if there is any debris on the road, if the road is uneven or cracked you must just stop and turn around.... because you care about your family’s safety, right? Since ABS does not stop the car, what is someone to do???


You were right 25 years ago, but not today.

Sigh....

You're like a liberal bro, you keep changing the argument to suit your needs!

On a dry surface, a car with ABS will take longer to stop than a car without ABS (go ahead, try it on your own car).

On a slippery surface (rain, dirt, whatever) the ONLY thing ABS will allow you to do is steer in a panic stop and this is only if the wheels don't loose traction completely!

On new cars (BMW and Lexus for instance) the ABS takes input from the steering angle sensor, the G force sensors in the air bag computer, the engine computer, the trans computer and lastly the sensors on all four wheels, and determines what each individual brake/wheel Should be doing based on the saved data hard coded into the ABS computer. There are half a dozen different control maps in the ABS computer that determine what happens at any given time to the wheel speed at every wheel.

Going to fast around a corner? The ABS can now apply the brake to just one wheel to get you back inline. You'll never know though. This action takes place too fast for you to know. The technology on new cars is absolutely amazing. The speed of the new processors and cheap memory make all these things possible and allows you to steer when you have you foot on the brake pedal way harder than it should be.

But, if you get into a slide situation, all of these bets are off. The tires can no longer determine exactly what's going on and all of the systems are now useless.

ABS is a very forgiving and useful system under the right situations, but it CANNOT compensate for everything. To say ABS is useful an ANY condition is a very misleading statement.

P.S.

With all that being said, brakes themselves haven't changed a bit. Disc brakes still operate the same way they did forty years ago! So do the drum brakes as well, although they aren't used as much. The assist systems have changed a bit though. Most trucks used a vacuum booster way back in the day. Most 3/4 and up trucks all use hydro boost now. 1/2 tons are still vacuum boosted.

Manual brakes put out roughly 800psi. Vacuum boosted brakes put out about 1200psi. Hydroboost brakes put out roughly 2000psi. Of course, this all depends what size master cylinder you use on the system in question. This can affect braking performance as well.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I have not changed my argument. You have shown that your reading comprehension is lacking.

You keep unequivocally stating that “Without ABS you can stop shorter” if you want to talk about misleading statements, that is a huge one, and flat false. That is a rediculous statement unless you drive in a vacuum in a laboratory.

So now that you have gone through a cursory explanation of ABS systems, your conclusion is to say that they don’t always work? And you are saying I’ve changed my argument?

So now can you describe how your bionic foot works? Please describe how in all conditions you are able to modulate the brakes and stop better than all the amazing technology in a new vehicle?

Again, If you want to grind your tires off to one uncontrolled stop a foot shorter than ABS in perfect conditions, be my guest.

I’ll wet the road for the next stop and watch you spin off into the field.

 

[hallett21]

Will the stopping while towing contest happening before or after the drunk vs sober docking competition


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rivermobster]

I have not changed my argument. You have shown that your reading comprehension is lacking.

You keep unequivocally stating that “Without ABS you can stop shorter” if you want to talk about misleading statements, that is a huge one, and flat false. That is a rediculous statement unless you drive in a vacuum in a laboratory.

So now that you have gone through a cursory explanation of ABS systems, your conclusion is to say that they don’t always work? And you are saying I’ve changed my argument?

So now can you describe how your bionic foot works? Please describe how in all conditions you are able to modulate the brakes and stop better than all the amazing technology in a new vehicle?

Again, If you want to grind your tires off to one uncontrolled stop a foot shorter than ABS in perfect conditions, be my guest.

I’ll wet the road for the next stop and watch you spin off into the field.

No lab. We did it out behind the Ford training center, when ABS first came out and then years later behind the Saab training center when I was was working for Saab.

We did it on dry pavement, and and pavement with dirt on it so we could see the difference. Those were some of the funnest training days I remember cause we got paid to thrash on the cars! Got to do a few ride and drives with Lexus too, back to back in competitive make cars. Those were fun days as well.

Most of the time it's just boring classroom training the manufactures provide for you. I've worked for Lincoln Mercury, Saab, Lexus, BMW, Toyota and Bentley. I've sat through my share of boring training and am pretty familiar with how ABS and the associated systems all work.

Enjoy your night.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

No lab. We did it out behind the Ford training center, when ABS first came out and then years later behind the Saab training center when I was was working for Saab.

We did it on dry pavement, and and pavement with dirt on it so we could see the difference. Those were some of the funnest training days I remember cause we got paid to thrash on the cars! Got to do a few ride and drives with Lexus too, back to back in competitive make cars. Those were fun days as well.

Most of the time it's just boring classroom training the manufactures provide for you. I've worked for Lincoln Mercury, Saab, Lexus, BMW, Toyota and Bentley. I've sat through my share of boring training and am pretty familiar with how ABS and the associated systems all work.

Enjoy your night.

You as well. And be safe out there in your travels.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Sigh....

You're like a liberal bro, you keep changing the argument to suit your needs!

On a dry surface, a car with ABS will take longer to stop than a car without ABS (go ahead, try it on your own car).

On a slippery surface (rain, dirt, whatever) the ONLY thing ABS will allow you to do is steer in a panic stop and this is only if the wheels don't loose traction completely!

On new cars (BMW and Lexus for instance) the ABS takes input from the steering angle sensor, the G force sensors in the air bag computer, the engine computer, the trans computer and lastly the sensors on all four wheels, and determines what each individual brake/wheel Should be doing based on the saved data hard coded into the ABS computer. There are half a dozen different control maps in the ABS computer that determine what happens at any given time to the wheel speed at every wheel.

Going to fast around a corner? The ABS can now apply the brake to just one wheel to get you back inline. You'll never know though. This action takes place too fast for you to know. The technology on new cars is absolutely amazing. The speed of the new processors and cheap memory make all these things possible and allows you to steer when you have you foot on the brake pedal way harder than it should be.

But, if you get into a slide situation, all of these bets are off. The tires can no longer determine exactly what's going on and all of the systems are now useless.

ABS is a very forgiving and useful system under the right situations, but it CANNOT compensate for everything. To say ABS is useful an ANY condition is a very misleading statement.

P.S.

With all that being said, brakes themselves haven't changed a bit. Disc brakes still operate the same way they did forty years ago! So do the drum brakes as well, although they aren't used as much. The assist systems have changed a bit though. Most trucks used a vacuum booster way back in the day. Most 3/4 and up trucks all use hydro boost now. 1/2 tons are still vacuum boosted.

Manual brakes put out roughly 800psi. Vacuum boosted brakes put out about 1200psi. Hydroboost brakes put out roughly 2000psi. Of course, this all depends what size master cylinder you use on the system in question. This can affect braking performance as well.

Dude, you are seriously out of touch with today's truck technology. The gov't mandated all vehicles (it may be just trucks and SUV's, i cant remember) be factory equiped with stability control. The technology you mentioned in your reply from BMW and the like, is the same technology used in trucks for stability control. The objective is slightly different but the same individual braking, steering wheel angle input, yaw sensors, G force sensors accelerometers, etc are used.

You're argument is ABS only helps on pavement that has compromised grip. Single vector (straight line, not turning, no road sloping to one side, etc), dry pavement braking non-ABS vehicles will stop shorter. Lets use your example of a loaded truck towing a heavy trailer. You think there is only 1 force vector with that set-up? You dont think that trailer is pushing the truck one way or another? Is this not the same result as a less-than-ideal road surface? The fact is, that is precisely what happens and why the new trucks with the ABS and stability control systems can stop MUCH better than the old, heavy trucks.

Also, your argument of needing more weight to stop weight is flat wrong as well. The weight helps to keep the load behind you but it does not help stop it. Just look at Newtons third law. Mode weight.... more force required to stop.

Also, can you share whatever youre smoking? Cause you MUST be higher than giraffe pussy to think there hasnt been any improvement in braking technology in 25 years. The general principal is the same yes. But materials and components have increased performance DRASTICALLY!! Rotor sizes have increased (cant run no dinky 15" wheels no more), calipers with MULTIPLE pistons, advanced designs for cooling the rotors and pads to further reduce fade....

There is a member here that works at, i believe, Stop Tech. A brake manufacturer and design company. Id LOVE to see you convince him his products arent any better than the ones being sold 25 years ago.

 

[shan]

Prove it.

Second, a vehicle with ABS takes longer to stop when a vehicle without ABS. Prove me wrong.

I'll be waiting...

 

[shan]

Really?

 

[Singleton]

This tread still going - must be winter. End of day, if you are towing every weekend and are going to be close to the max GVWR then you might want a bigger truck. If it is just once a month you most likely will be ok, just take the necessary safety steps.
Not sure why folks are making it out to be more difficult

 

[shan]

Really?

Well, that's weird i quoted the post that non-ABS stops shorter than ABS, and that didn't work, but, really one of the most ignorant posts I've seen in recent history.

 

[pronstar]

Aside from the fact that Saab hasn't engineered a car since the mid-90's [emoji15][emoji12]

Let's say you're towing on a treadmill with a tailwind...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[lbhsbz]

There is a member here that works at, i believe, Stop Tech. A brake manufacturer and design company.

That asshole doesn't know shit

 

[sml]

For me the decision was easy living in western Pennsylvania. I tow everything i have with a 7.3 crew cab long bed dually. Not a chance in hell i would even attempt to tow my 12,000lb toy hauler with anything less. I don’t care how great these brand new half ton’s are......The roads are WAY different here.

When i lived in phoenix i towed with a 6.0 denali. Towed a 10klb ‘hauler with it once to glamis and never did it again(mainly because it felt like i had it set on kill the whole trip) but i towed some heavy boats and it was fine.

People can choose what they want to tow with and what works for them especially if it is a dual purpose daily driver vehicle. In my situation i chose a truck for the sole purpose of towing things. My truck has all the towing upgrades including ssbc calipers and it stops on a dime with 22.5 wheels on it.

I know a couple guys towing some big campers with half tons...they just ask that i let off a little as i blow past them on the highway so they don’t sway in to the ditch [emoji1]

My thoughts on this whole subject is, it’s all good till it’s not!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[77charger]

We will agree to disagree then...

Why? If you load your trailer with too little tongue weight, it will sway with NO wind at all.

If you load your trailer with enough tongue weight, the likelyhood of trailer sway is nil.

I've towed my toy hauler for Thousands of miles, and drivin in the worst cross winds you'll ever see. My whole rig never moves in the wind. It's all about how much tongue weight you run, and if your truck/hitch can deal with that weight. I run a Class IV reciever with a WD hitch. I have no issues at all.

A weight distribution hitch is just that. It distributes the weight to front wheels and takes some of the weight off the rear axle. This effect doubles the capacity of the hitch. IF you have a truck with a tow package from the factory, that info you speak of MIGHT be in the truck owners manual, then again, it might not. A lot of hitches/recievers are dealer installed.

If you are adding a hitch to whatever you have (truck, motor home, van, etc...), you'll need to use the instructions that came with the hitch/receiver.

Nothing is ever as simple as it seems...

View attachment 605671

View attachment 605672

Same here towed my tag toyhauler manh times from glamis in heavy winds no issues at all besides giving my lil 6.0 gasser all it has to keep at 55 but never any sway or blown across the roads.My old buggy if i drove it in foward i could get a sway at 60 with no wind i began backing it in it would track straight in the heaviest of winds.