Why not a buggy?

[evantwheeler]

always wanted a LT sand car before I died. how much in maintenance are they per season? More than the boat?

Depends what you buy, how you drive, and how much you use it. Ive gone 3 years and only minimal prep, but im an idaho for a week and 2 or 3 glamis trips a season kind of duner. I love driving the car, but have zero desire to go out for long trips or many times a season.

 

[evantwheeler]

In October he lunched second or third, so that's probably why it's so shiny and pretty. The ring gear portion looks like it can house a pretty substantial gear set though. I like the stuff, but my bank account is more in the spectator range...and the cheap seats at that.

Pretty positive it is essentially a d60 r&p in the S4/5D. They are fantastic. You have to TRY to hurt them if properly built. My boss whoops on his and still on original R&P. Like does laps at Olds hill full throttle multiple times a trip, and only needed a couple bearings and a 2nd gear over the decade he has had it.

I bought one because of the abuse his takes, and with my power and the way I drive, i should never ever have to do anything but change the oil in it.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Pretty positive it is essentially a d60 r&p in the S4/5D. They are fantastic. You have to TRY to hurt them if properly built. My boss whoops on his and still on original R&P. Like does laps at Olds hill full throttle multiple times a trip, and only needed a couple bearings and a 2nd gear over the decade he has had it.

This guy has near 900hp, and it's his first buggy. It may have been a vertical learning curve. I believe it was doing wheelies down Olds

 

[SeanRitchie]

Here's some transaxle facts (consider me the horses mouth):

1. 90% of people put far more power through their H-pattern Mendeola 2D than they are capable of handling. (same as 525 pushing an Alpha 1 drive in a 25'+ boat). This is the majority of "transaxles are expensive to maintain!" talk.

2. The vast majority of buggies were built in the past 20 years with transaxles and engine packages that were matched to handle the power. Then new owners threw a cam, heads, stroker crank in the motor against the same transaxle that is not capable of handling that power. Yes, that requires more frequent services on the transaxle and replacing worn out parts.

3. There are far better transaxles on the market today that can handle 600+ HP and are extremely reliable (Weddle HV-24/HV-25), and are still a common H-pattern that your wife and kids and drive.

4. Yes, a new Albins is $35k. There are still plenty of ballers building high end cars that are willing to shell out for the best of the best. Yes, a Weddle S4D will handle nearly the same amount of power as an Albins for $20k, and cost a lot less to replace parts when the time comes. This is the "minor league baller" market.

5. Transaxles for off-road buggies are not a high volume production unit, therefor they cost more. We are not GM, Ford, Dodge, etc. This is a niche market. Gotta pay to play.

6. A ride in a high powered purpose built sand car or desert buggy is far more fun than any SxS ride. I've been in and driven both, I have skin in the game on this topic.

Enjoy your whiskey's tonight boys, I finally got 80 gallons of solvent in my parts wash tank today and actual work is getting through my shop. I smell as good as I look tonight.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Here's some transaxle facts (consider me the horses mouth):

1. 90% of people put far more power through their H-pattern Mendeola 2D than they are capable of handling. (same as 525 pushing an Alpha 1 drive in a 25'+ boat). This is the majority of "transaxles are expensive to maintain!" talk.

2. The vast majority of buggies were built in the past 20 years with transaxles and engine packages that were matched to handle the power. Then new owners threw a cam, heads, stroker crank in the motor against the same transaxle that is not capable of handling that power. Yes, that requires more frequent services on the transaxle and replacing worn out parts.

3. There are far better transaxles on the market today that can handle 600+ HP and are extremely reliable (Weddle HV-24/HV-25), and are still a common H-pattern that your wife and kids and drive.

4. Yes, a new Albins is $35k. There are still plenty of ballers building high end cars that are willing to shell out for the best of the best. Yes, a Weddle S4D will handle nearly the same amount of power as an Albins for $20k, and cost a lot less to replace parts when the time comes. This is the "minor league baller" market.

5. Transaxles for off-road buggies are not a high volume production unit, therefor they cost more. We are not GM, Ford, Dodge, etc. This is a niche market. Gotta pay to play.

6. A ride in a high powered purpose built sand car or desert buggy is far more fun than any SxS ride. I've been in and driven both, I have skin in the game on this topic.

Enjoy your whiskey's tonight boys, I finally got 80 gallons of solvent in my parts wash tank today and actual work is getting through my shop. I smell as good as I look tonight.

For a second, I thought you were going to say you had 80 gallons of whiskey....
Whiskey I understand, sequential transmissions I don't

Glad work is going for you!

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Which proves my theory. A class 1 with no drivetrain is pretty useless to most and will take a bare minimum of 20k for engine and trans. To do it right is 100k+

I’ll be into my rzr 75 by the time it has 50 miles on it, a buddy just sold a prepped JimCo 2000 for 70…

 

[02HoWaRd26]

I also believe when this thread was made, could be wrong but a 4 seat buggy is what would be a comparison. Not an actual c1 car.

 

[Backlash]

I also believe when this thread was made, could be wrong but a 4 seat buggy is what would be a comparison. Not an actual c1 car.

I agree. Having friends who moved up from Class 1 to TT, I know for a fact a Class 1 car costs FAR more than any SxS. The motor alone cost more than an entire SxS.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Great responses.

Example of class 1 car currently listed for sxs prices.

Class 1 buggy

2020 built Class 1 buggy . 112 wheel base 90 miles on car since rebuild. 22 of travel front and rear650hp 5.3 ls, ...click to see more of this listing

classifieds.race-dezert.com

Here's another

2004 Coyote Racing Class 1 Race Car/ Dune car

2004 Coyote Racing Class 1 Race CarThis Car Was originally built for Lee Finke owner of raceshock in Phoenix AZ. When we a...click to see more of this listing

classifieds.race-dezert.com

There are lots of these in the 60-70k range.

 

[Badchoices03]

This is why

 

[CLdrinker]

See when you guys say class 1 I think you are talking about this

 

[yz450mm]

Because 96% of sxs owners could not hop in and drive a manual transmission 2wheel drive anything in the sand without blowing it up or getting stuck.

Your property should be the Docktagon of off-road smack talk. I'll bring out the equipment and prep the track, then we go bracket style to name the true king of off-road toys!

Round one is @Wizard29 in his Ultra 4 VS @Bpracing1127 in a Speed SxS.

Brad can do a parade lap to show off his pirouetting prerunner, then Jonathan can do a lap in the AWD TT to show everyone up.

 

[River Dirt 2]

See when you guys say class 1 I think you are talking about this View attachment 1486788

Sheila is the definition of Badass….

 

[CLdrinker]

Sheila is the definition of Badass….

Definitely.

Calling a car a Class 1 when it has a 2D like above is an insult.

 

[Thunderhead1]

The class 1 Buggy is built for the crash... The SXS is NOT. I have both and they both have a prurpose... IMO , a SXS has no business running 100+mph through the desert.

 

[River Dirt 2]

2020 Alumi Craft dual sport

2020 Alumi Craft Dual Sport Redline Chevy v6Mendeola 2d (250mi)Fox Shocks CBR radiator/oil coolerFuel safe 25gal fuel c...click to see more of this listing

classifieds.race-dezert.com

I like this. This car is probably good for 20 years with minimal upkeep depending on how and how much you run it.

 

[evantwheeler]

2020 Alumi Craft dual sport

2020 Alumi Craft Dual Sport Redline Chevy v6Mendeola 2d (250mi)Fox Shocks CBR radiator/oil coolerFuel safe 25gal fuel c...click to see more of this listing

classifieds.race-dezert.com

I like this. This car is probably good for 20 years with minimal upkeep depending on how and how much you run it.

Yes. Because the cars are designed properly, they don't "wear themselves out". I had a buddy with an alumicraft that had been modified in the front to fit bigger shocks and spindles by a shop that had a name, but not a great reputation. He was always replacing heims in the front end. Like multiple times a year. We have early 2000's Alumicrafts in our dune group that have heims that are decades old. That car also likely doesn't have enough power to destroy the 2D. That is a smoking deal for a great car, though it would be a ton more fun with a V8 and a sequential.

 

[Backlash]

2020 Alumi Craft dual sport

2020 Alumi Craft Dual Sport Redline Chevy v6Mendeola 2d (250mi)Fox Shocks CBR radiator/oil coolerFuel safe 25gal fuel c...click to see more of this listing

classifieds.race-dezert.com

I like this. This car is probably good for 20 years with minimal upkeep depending on how and how much you run it.

I'll bet that car handles EXTREMELY well and is well-balanced and nimble. That's a helluva deal on a really well-made car.

 

[Englewood]

I recently built 2 Baja bugs and remodeled a Monster Manx. Holy F*cking shit these things are expensive.

Dealing with fab shops will make you go postal in no time at all. When I sold my last car I decided I will never own anything for Offroad other than a UTV.

 

[EmpirE231]

Here's some transaxle facts (consider me the horses mouth):



4. Yes, a new Albins is $35k. There are still plenty of ballers building high end cars that are willing to shell out for the best of the best. Yes, a Weddle S4D will handle nearly the same amount of power as an Albins for $20k, and cost a lot less to replace parts when the time comes. This is the "minor league baller" market.

So is the Albins in any way still superior to the S4D/S5D or not any longer?

 

[evantwheeler]

So is the Albins in any way still superior to the S4D/S5D or not any longer?

You get to tell people you have an Albins.

 

[Bpracing1127]

Your property should be the Docktagon of off-road smack talk. I'll bring out the equipment and prep the track, then we go bracket style to name the true king of off-road toys!

Round one is @Wizard29 in his Ultra 4 VS @Bpracing1127 in a Speed SxS.

Brad can do a parade lap to show off his pirouetting prerunner, then Jonathan can do a lap in the AWD TT to show everyone up.

Hahah funny I still kick wizards ass in my 6 year old turbo s. Won’t be caught in a speed car cuz I don’t wanna walk

 

[jesco]

See when you guys say class 1 I think you are talking about this View attachment 1486788

Sheila is a BAAAAAAAD BITCH!!! Most iconic Class 1 "buggy" still out there racing... The ultimate Class 1 still has to be the Herbst's El Tiburon "truggy". This thing hurt some feelings!!!! I saw it years ago at their shop buried in the corner collecting dust. My buddy who works there told me there was a plan to bring it back to life, and they finally did!!! Its cool to see it running again.

 

[CLdrinker]

You get to tell people you have an Albins.

Some get to say the broke a few albins each seasons. Pissing away serious amounts of cash.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Sheila is a BAAAAAAAD BITCH!!! Most iconic Class 1 "buggy" still out there racing... The ultimate Class 1 still has to be the Herbst's El Tiburon "truggy". This thing hurt some feelings!!!! I saw it years ago at their shop buried in the corner collecting dust. My buddy who works there told me there was a plan to bring it back to life, and they finally did!!! Its cool to see it running again. View attachment 1486934

That's the same one?! Holy crap, that thing was a beast...still is, but now a "vintage" beast

 

[oldschool]

SxS’s are cool. BUT, I’d take this every time.

 

[SeanRitchie]

So is the Albins in any way still superior to the S4D/S5D or not any longer?

There are a few details on the Albins that are better than S4D, but really the only advantage in my opinion is the torsen diff in the Albins, which is far stronger than the spider gear diff in the S4D and works as an LSD to get both tires pushing under low traction.

I have no problem putting upwards of 1500 HP through an S4D. There are a few that have exceeded that with good reliability.

 

[yz450mm]

Sheila is a BAAAAAAAD BITCH!!! Most iconic Class 1 "buggy" still out there racing... The ultimate Class 1 still has to be the Herbst's El Tiburon "truggy". This thing hurt some feelings!!!! I saw it years ago at their shop buried in the corner collecting dust. My buddy who works there told me there was a plan to bring it back to life, and they finally did!!! Its cool to see it running again. View attachment 1486934

The truggy and Ivan's PPI Toyota are easily the two coolest off road vehicles ever made, I'd rather have those than anything new.

 

[Deckin Around]

Your property should be the Docktagon of off-road smack talk. I'll bring out the equipment and prep the track, then we go bracket style to name the true king of off-road toys!

Round one is @Wizard29 in his Ultra 4 VS @Bpracing1127 in a Speed SxS.

Brad can do a parade lap to show off his pirouetting prerunner, then Jonathan can do a lap in the AWD TT to show everyone up.

Instigator! No more big trucks on the jump track… you know how this ended

 

[Wizard29]

Your property should be the Docktagon of off-road smack talk. I'll bring out the equipment and prep the track, then we go bracket style to name the true king of off-road toys!

Round one is @Wizard29 in his Ultra 4 VS @Bpracing1127 in a Speed SxS.

Brad can do a parade lap to show off his pirouetting prerunner, then Jonathan can do a lap in the AWD TT to show everyone up.

Ha, put some rock obstacles on that course and it'll be no contest. U4 will win every time.

And before any of you say, "But side by sides...King of the Hammers..." keep in mind that those cars are barely side by sides any more and one of them even snapped in half.

To the OP's original post that started this thread, not only is it about financing, ease of repair/maintenance, and the other pro-side by side reasons already mentioned, one other thing to consider is 4WD. Most buggies don't have that, which restricts them to certain terrain.

I have my Ultra4 and I also have an LS powered sand rail. Since I do both hard pack/rocky terrain riding as well as the sand dunes, I wanted the best tool for both jobs. I would never take my rail on the hard pack/rocky terrain rides. No way it would ever be able to climb the rocks and stuff like the Ultra4 can (too long, too low, and no 4WD). Conversely, I would never take the Ultra4 to the sand dunes. It could do them, but not even close to as well as the rail will.

My personal situation allows me to have both types of vehicles. I can wrench on them as needed and also have the facilities to park/store them. A lot of people don't have that, which is where side by sides come in.

As much as I despise side by sides because they have made Glamis and other places far too accessible to people who don't belong there, they do have that element of being a decent "all around" vehicle. They can do the sand and the hard pack/some rocks, reasonably well, but they aren't really the best vehicle out there for either type of riding.