Union guys never work!

[Vmjtc3]

he is saying is the "jib" must match the equipment. If you have a Sky Trac the jib must be Sky Trac and for that exact machine. Not a Gradall jib on a sky trac, or a fab shop made jib that has a engineers stamp. On large jobs there could be 6 reach forks, all different manufactures, guys will grab any jib they see laying around. Thats the legal problem.
Truth is construction site are one big legal time bomb. The days of loaning a forklift for a 12 pack are long gone. You cant even loan a ladder these days. It is just the way it is now.

I hear you on loaning stuff out, we would not even let our guys on another trades ladder, to much liability. When the contractor I worked for got bought out by MDU ( Montana Dakota Utilities corp) we spent a lot of time in training for all the new policies. Most of it was legal cover your ass policy. Shit when I first started in construction the first thing we did in the winter was send the apprentices out to gather wood for the fire in a 55 gallon drum to stay warm, now most towers you cant even smoke on. The last 10 years have been crazy, I have spent more time in OSHA training and in house safety training than training for my trader:thumbsdown

 

[rivrrts429]

How does OSHA trump manufacturer sign offs and engineer sign offs when that is their rule? We had a gator roll over with a pipe rack on it and recieved two citations one for untrained operator and one for a having the rack. After we showed them an engineer sign off on the rack they dropped it.

It has been my experience that the courts rely on OSHA's interpretation and testimony long before the engineer or manufacture regardless if a single citation was given.

In your example... If an injury or death occurred and a lawsuit was filed, OSHA's desire to issue a citation would most likely have resulted in a win for the plaintiff. Regardless of who signed off and if a citation was ever filed.

I've sat through about 15 similar court cases and have had the judge hanging from the OSHA reps every word. Maybe its coincidence but I haven't seen one case where the judge ruled against OSHA's analysis.

Meanwhile... Manufacture, vendor, engineers, etc... are all pointing fingers at each other acting like the other is an idiot :thumbsdown

he is saying is the "jib" must match the equipment. If you have a Sky Trac the jib must be Sky Trac and for that exact machine. Not a Gradall jib on a sky trac, or a fab shop made jib that has a engineers stamp. On large jobs there could be 6 reach forks, all different manufactures, guys will grab any jib they see laying around. Thats the legal problem.
Truth is construction site are one big legal time bomb. The days of loaning a forklift for a 12 pack are long gone. You cant even loan a ladder these days. It is just the way it is now.

Exactly. Thanks :thumbsup

 

[Vmjtc3]

It has been my experience that the courts rely on OSHA's interpretation and testimony long before the engineer or manufacture regardless if a single citation was given.

In your example... If an injury or death occurred and a lawsuit was filed, OSHA's desire to issue a citation would most likely have resulted in a win for the plaintiff. Regardless of who signed off and if a citation was ever filed.

I've sat through about 15 similar court cases and have had the judge hanging from the OSHA reps every word. Maybe its coincidence but I haven't seen one case where the judge ruled against OSHA's analysis.

Meanwhile... Manufacture, vendor, engineers, etc... are all pointing fingers at each other acting like the other is an idiot :thumbsdown

Exactly. Thanks :thumbsup

I am not trying to disagree with you, I am just saying that it is OSHA's rule that you can have a letter from the manufacturer or an engineer, so they are not going to trump their own rule, you following me?

 

[rivrrts429]

I am not trying to disagree with you, I am just saying that it is OSHA's rule that you can have a letter from the manufacturer or an engineer, so they are not going to trump their own rule, you following me?

Yep, never took it as disagreeing :thumbsup

 

[RUNNINHOTRACING163.1]

So, the taxpayers are on the hook for this twice because nobody thought about the weather?
I would think the the change order would keep a couple of teachers hired for another year.:thumbsdown

Oh Fvck why worry bout the Weather







ROCK ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190649028759
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-BOAT-TRA...089d56&vxp=mtr

ITS A SKATER NATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Luvnlife]

I will be the first to admit I suck at driving equipment I was actually a local 12 apprentice back when I was 18, my step dad is a retired local 12 operator. But if you don't run stuff all the time you are going to suck. Believe me when I say no way in hell would I ever take anyone else's work. I'll stand in front of an open elevator for 3 hours before I would get in and punch a button to go up That being said most of our job contracts allow us to load, unload, stock and supply our own material but never another trade. If another trade needs something done and its not in their contract the local 12 guys do it. Trust me I would rather not have any part of it, coordinating deliveries, scheduling lift time on the tower cranes and man lifts, keeping equipment fueled and maintained ect. ect., is a pain in the ass I would rather not have when I am trying to build a tower. But its just part of the gig, personally I think if it has wheels or requires someone to run it a local 12 guy should be on it so I don't have to mess with it! :thumbsup

I like what you are saying:thumbsup I'm not trying to be a dick, just busting a brothers balls I don't get it though, when I went through the apprenticeship, if it had a seat it was ours. Now I hear stocking, tool of the trade, delivery. We need to keep it strong
:thumbsup:cool

 

[Luvnlife]

I hear you on loaning stuff out, we would not even let our guys on another trades ladder, to much liability. When the contractor I worked for got bought out by MDU ( Montana Dakota Utilities corp) we spent a lot of time in training for all the new policies. Most of it was legal cover your ass policy. Shit when I first started in construction the first thing we did in the winter was send the apprentices out to gather wood for the fire in a 55 gallon drum to stay warm, now most towers you cant even smoke on. The last 10 years have been crazy, I have spent more time in OSHA training and in house safety training than training for my trader:thumbsdown

I hear what you are saying. Alot has changed, I makw sure I have covered my ass before the boys head into an excavation. I have twenty years to go and wonder what I'm in for. Pretty soon I'll have four hours of paperwork to fill out before I wrap the crew in bubble wrap to go to work. BTW I remember gathering wood for the fire also

 

[Nordie]

How did I miss all this lol, this is a private job, no tax payer money. To date I have not seen a single county person on the job, so hopefully that squashes that. The OSHA dealio well OSHA is part of the problem that we dont have American idustries here anymore.

Oh yeah flame on!

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