ultra delam question

[Nord]

How many of them delaminated? Did all of the newer shadows have this problem?


Instead of deleting the first part of this while editing, I will be more specific. Did or will all of the new infused hulls have this problem?

 

[shadow]

Had my 27 Shadow for about 7 years and ran the hell out of it,never had any issues what so ever.That boat seemed to be bullet proof.I think mine was the 4th one out of the mold.Great boat loved it.

 

[Crazyhippy]

My understanding is, only the infused hulls are having issues. They are/ were rare.

 

[McRib]

I thought I remember reading on here that 7 were built with the infusion process and 3 have surfaced with delam problems. Im sure im wrong but these numbers are in my head.

 

[Ultra28]

Only a portion of 2007 to 2009 model year Ultra 27 Shadows and 26 Shadow decks were infused (there were also two 19' race pickleforks). Not all of them have had problems. I know of three 27 Shadows and one 26 Shadow deck that have had some delamination. I just heard about one from this weekend a few minutes ago. The customer that had that one just bought it used and took it out for the first time to have the sponson break within minutes of it hitting the water.

 

[VoodooMedMan]

Never saw the poo slingin thread about the blue one but I have an Ultra and it is bullet proof. couple of air bubbles at the keel and and a strake or two but I've seen those on so many different brands it ain't funny. Those are not structural at all and just between the skin coat and the gel. Most people let them go thinking it's part of their beach rash. Infusion seems to an awesome deal but you have to get it right. It's like buying (pick your favorite brand of car) a first model year vehicle. All the bugs haven't been worked out yet. Moral of the story may be don't buy one of the very few Ultra's that were infused. Buy any other and you will have years of turnkey fun.

 

[dancudmore]

Only a portion of 2007 to 2009 model year Ultra 27 Shadows and 26 Shadow decks were infused (there were also two 19' race pickleforks). Not all of them have had problems. I know of three 27 Shadows and one 26 Shadow deck that have had some delamination. I just heard about one from this weekend a few minutes ago. The customer that had that one just bought it used and took it out for the first time to have the sponson break within minutes of it hitting the water.

That really sucks

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[Long Way Home]

How many of them delaminated? Did all of the newer shadows have this problem?

I though John West said on this site that there were 10-12 of the infused hulls boats the were/may have problems.

 

[Ultracrazy]

I though John West said on this site that there were 10-12 of the infused hulls boats the were/may have problems.

Check #5

 

[Long Way Home]

I should read all the posts..

 

[Nord]

I think that exposing problems such as these is a prime example of why online boating forums such as this one are so important. Issues like this never make print. The guy in following link in the F/S section here is obviously pissed. If he had read about the issue first and was educated, he probably would have not been going through what he is going through. I hope all is resolved.

The scary part is what if one of these things is at W.O.T and this happens? Somebody could be killed! Sounds like this issue just started happening within the last year? Have there been measures taken to let the remaining owners aware of the problem? Are the sellers supposed to make the buyers aware of the problem?


http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/showpost.php?p=780513&postcount=29





.........

 

[Motor Boater]

Its a really bad deal and ultimately could really hurt some people financially. I cant imagine paying 60-70K for something only to have it fall apart and the Insurance not cover it due to MFG Defects. Trying to absord that kind of financial loss will hurt for years and years.

 

[Singleton]

If you are thinking about purchasing a used 27 Shadow or 26 Shadow deck built between 2007 and 2009, send JW a note asking if it was infused. I bet he will be able to help, if you ask nicely. Or ask the seller for this original invoice that shows all options (it should be listed).

If you own one already (that you purchased new from JW), you should know how it was built, since JW would ask if you wanted to try the infused process or go with a standard layup. I remember when I purchased mine, I asked and he said standard layup unless I wanted to pay the up charge for infused.

 

[FREAK JUICE]

Its a really bad deal and ultimately could really hurt some people financially. I cant imagine paying 60-70K for something only to have it fall apart and the Insurance not cover it due to MFG Defects. Trying to absord that kind of financial loss will hurt for years and years.

More like 70-120 K. Those boats were sold when business was booming

 

[shippingguy]

From what I am told the current customers were or have been informed and it is only a few of the infused hulls. JW addressed this the first time this type of thread was brought up. As for Ultra Boats quality. I am on my fourth ALL were STANDARD LAYUP!!! I have NEVER had one issue with my boat. If anybody is interested in buying a used Ultra that is STANDARD LAYUP and are out at the river the same time I am you are more than welcome to crawl through my boat and look at EVERYTHING and I am sure you will have confidence in the quality. Again this is a shitty situation for all involved, but again let's remember this is ONLY on the INFUSED hulls and there were not many done and only a few with an issue.

 

[XTRM22]

I know of one 22' Shadow that delamed on the bottom, I think in 07, If I remember right after the second time, John West took it back and built the guy a 26 Shadow and did everything he could to make it right. I dont think that 22 was infused but I took pictures of the delam, scary stuff.

 

[Singleton]

I know of one 22' Shadow that delamed on the bottom, I think in 07, If I remember right after the second time, John West took it back and built the guy a 26 Shadow and did everything he could to make it right. I dont think that 22 was infused but I took pictures of the delam, scary stuff.

JW always went above and beyond when he owned Ultra. For the folks having issues now it sucks but based on the other thread, JW has told them what to do.

 

[Nord]

JW always went above and beyond when he owned Ultra. For the folks having issues now it sucks but based on the other thread, JW has told them what to do.

So more than likely the guy that sold the boat that delammed in the f/s thread new that the boats had a problem. I have a feeling that now since time has passed, your going to start seeing more of these pop up. Though it sounds like it is only the infused boats, that is still a ton of money out there with a lingering thought of "how safe is my boat". I wonder if the seller holds any responsibility if he was aware of the problem and didn't pass that info onto the new buyer?

 

[FREAK JUICE]

We sold ours to a dealer before any problems arose. Delam probs that is
It was our first new boat & I always loved the looks & gel work of the Ultra's. Learned alot about quality rigging and workmanship from that lesson.

 

[Joker]

So more than likely the guy that sold the boat that delammed in the f/s thread new that the boats had a problem. I have a feeling that now since time has passed, your going to start seeing more of these pop up. Though it sounds like it is only the infused boats, that is still a ton of money out there with a lingering thought of "how safe is my boat". I wonder if the seller holds any responsibility if he was aware of the problem and didn't pass that info onto the new buyer?

I'm sure there's an attorney out there ready to grab this one.

 

[dancudmore]

We sold ours to a dealer before any problems arose. Delam probs that is
It was our first new boat & I always loved the looks & gel work of the Ultra's. Learned alot about quality rigging and workmanship from that lesson.

I was very impressed with the gel work and rigging on my Ultra too




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[FREAK JUICE]

I was very impressed with the gel work and rigging on my Ultra too




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[LowRiver2]

I'd put my 03' Stealth up to a lot of the competition that year in size/category for rigging. Anyone that knows west coast boats knows enough to know the order or hierarchy of mfg.'s Ultra's were in the upper half, not top's but not a level either, unless you paid too much

 

[dancudmore]

23' Shadow??


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[FREAK JUICE]

Bingo I think it was one of ther first. so that might explain some things

 

[Deano]

If you are thinking about purchasing a used 27 Shadow or 26 Shadow deck built between 2007 and 2009, send JW a note asking if it was infused. I bet he will be able to help, if you ask nicely. Or ask the seller for this original invoice that shows all options (it should be listed).

If you own one already (that you purchased new from JW), you should know how it was built, since JW would ask if you wanted to try the infused process or go with a standard layup. I remember when I purchased mine, I asked and he said standard layup unless I wanted to pay the up charge for infused.

And then what? What's your point? Let's say I know my 115K shadow was infused. What's your suggestion?

 

[Deano]

If you are thinking about purchasing a used 27 Shadow or 26 Shadow deck built between 2007 and 2009, send JW a note asking if it was infused. I bet he will be able to help, if you ask nicely. Or ask the seller for this original invoice that shows all options (it should be listed).

If you own one already (that you purchased new from JW), you should know how it was built, since JW would ask if you wanted to try the infused process or go with a standard layup. I remember when I purchased mine, I asked and he said standard layup unless I wanted to pay the up charge for infused.

I have to ask one more thing. Why would I have to ask nicely? Wouldn't that be pretty negligent (if not already) for him to hold back information on a boat that could possibly kill my family?

 

[Tom Brown]

I think that exposing problems such as these is a prime example of why online boating forums such as this one are so important.

I'm kind of surprised Dave hasn't taken this down, yet. You won't see much of this sort of thing in the forums, either. It isn't to the forum owner's advantage to allow negative discussion.

 

[FREAK JUICE]

danben111
Junior Member


danben111 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2 ultra shadow

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportCat
$65,000 OBO takes everything!!!!!!! Let me know. Thanks

Hi,

i am wondering how your situation is going with your boat. I have a 2007 ultra shadow i purchased in pheonix 1 month ago. i just took it out for the first time this weekend to havasu. the boat delamed on the left side and could have sunk. im lucky i was near a beach and dock awy from havasu springs. this thing is bad. i dont even think it can be fixed. i am soooo pissed. did you have any luck at all with the insurance that john west had while it was in operation? i am call the insurance co on monday to file a claim. i've never filed anything before so i dont know the process. i would like to talk to you if its ok.

dan

Posted 7-31 :thumbsdown

 

[shippingguy]

danben111
Junior Member


danben111 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2 ultra shadow

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by SportCat
$65,000 OBO takes everything!!!!!!! Let me know. Thanks

Hi,

i am wondering how your situation is going with your boat. I have a 2007 ultra shadow i purchased in pheonix 1 month ago. i just took it out for the first time this weekend to havasu. the boat delamed on the left side and could have sunk. im lucky i was near a beach and dock awy from havasu springs. this thing is bad. i dont even think it can be fixed. i am soooo pissed. did you have any luck at all with the insurance that john west had while it was in operation? i am call the insurance co on monday to file a claim. i've never filed anything before so i dont know the process. i would like to talk to you if its ok.

dan

Posted 7-31 :thumbsdown

Before you start to drag this through the mud. This guy has already been in contact with JW and it is now sounding like this is NOT a delam issue. Again, not confirmed, but let's not jump the gun. According to Dan who actually PM'd me this may have been a repair gone bad by the previous owner. Again we all know that there is a delam issue with a few of the INFUSED hulls, but this is not necessarily the case on this boat! Kind of like the DCB thread let's not jump to conclusions here!

 

[Singleton]

I have to ask one more thing. Why would I have to ask nicely? Wouldn't that be pretty negligent (if not already) for him to hold back information on a boat that could possibly kill my family?

If you purchased your boat new from JW, you should know how it was built (infused or not). If you don't know then ask the question, but no need to be an ass about it when you are asking JW. If you don't get an answer and have concerns, have the boat inspected by a professional to see if you are at risk. Not all INFUSED hulls are having issues.

Some folks might think I am trying to defend Ultra, I am not. The INFUSED process at Ultra did not work well and if you have problems or think you are at risk, take the steps needed to file an insurance claim and sue.

 

[HEY YOU]

We love are 2nd ULTRA :thumbsup

 

[Tom Brown]

Not all INFUSED hulls are having issues.

... but all infused Ultras are suspect.

 

[Nolan@Nicholas]

Anyone have pictures of delaminated areas on boats? Here is my bro's 07 on the trailer after it came apart while coming back from sandbar on poker run weekend... This was John's personal 26 deck and was the 1st one infused.

 

[Nord]

... but all infused Ultras are suspect.

Exactly.

 

[riverroyal]

Anyone have pictures of delaminated areas on boats? Here is my bro's 07 on the trailer after it came apart while coming back from sandbar on poker run weekend... This was John's personal 26 deck and was the 1st one infused.

thats not good

 

[Ultra26 # 1]

We love are 2nd ULTRA :thumbsup

I feel the same about my 3rd. All standard wet lay ups.

 

[newmexico]

Anyone have pictures of delaminated areas on boats? Here is my bro's 07 on the trailer after it came apart while coming back from sandbar on poker run weekend... This was John's personal 26 deck and was the 1st one infused.

What let your buddy know something was wrong? Water in the boat? Weird noises? Thats a disaster!

 

[Ultra26 # 1]

Anyone have pictures of delaminated areas on boats? Here is my bro's 07 on the trailer after it came apart while coming back from sandbar on poker run weekend... This was John's personal 26 deck and was the 1st one infused.

Heard through the grapevine that before the bank took back your bro's Ultra, he beat the shit out of it in the ocean and really big water in Havasu.

I can tell you from experience that if a guy beats any boat hard enough it will break.

I guess it's the bank's problem now, right?

 

[Deano]

Heard through the grapevine that before the bank took back your bro's Ultra, he beat the shit out of it in the ocean and really big water in Havasu.

I can tell you from experience that if a guy beats any boat hard enough it will break.

I guess it's the bank's problem now, right?

How are you going to beat the shit out of a deck boat in the ocean? What does giving it back to the bank have to do with delamination? Taking the high road are ya.

 

[Joker]

I'll assume the bank has it since he didn't want to pay for something that wasn't worth anything?

 

[Ultra26 # 1]

How are you going to beat the shit out of a deck boat in the ocean? What does giving it back to the bank have to do with delamination? Taking the high road are ya.

Some water is too big for a 26 Deck boat. I've had mine in Havasu five footers. the 26 didn't like water that big. A cat is not like a V in really big water.

Like I said, I've heard that this boat was beaten up badly. When something is going back to the back some folks don't seem to give a shit out they treat it.

Just the facts Deano

I'll assume the bank has it since he didn't want to pay for something that wasn't worth anything?

Bank was after this one long before Desert Storm.

 

[FREAK JUICE]

So did he beat the $hit out of it before the delam? Just curious

 

[Joker]

Some water is too big for a 26 Deck boat. I've had mine in Havasu five footers. the 26 didn't like water that big. A cat is not like a V in really big water.

Like I said, I've heard that this boat was beaten up badly. When something is going back to the back some folks don't seem to give a shit out they treat it.

Just the facts Deano



Bank was after this one long before Desert Storm.

Ohhhhhh, never mind then.

 

[funkcity]

I had to look this up and I found a pretty good page.
Listed are pros and cons and pitfalls.

http://www.fram.nl/workshop/controlled_vacuum_infusion/cvi.htm

 

[Ultra26 # 1]

How many of them delaminated? Did all of the newer shadows have this problem?

No.

I believe JW mentioned in a previous thread that he built less than 20 infused boats. In this thread he mentioned that he knew of three with issues, besides the used boat just purchased in AZ, so 4 total.

I have an 07 Shadow, standard layup, that has no issues at all.

 

[Gelcoater]

I had to look this up and I found a pretty good page.
Listed are pros and cons and pitfalls.

http://www.fram.nl/workshop/controlled_vacuum_infusion/cvi.htm

Here's another great source of info on lamination.




http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1029

 

[GRADS2009]

Heard through the grapevine that before the bank took back your bro's Ultra, he beat the shit out of it in the ocean and really big water in Havasu.

I can tell you from experience that if a guy beats any boat hard enough it will break.

What a bullshit, nut swinging response!

I'm guessing that if he was "beating" it up in the ocean that they would of been tossed from the boat long before the boat would have fallen apart...at least thats how it should be.

I had a friend run a Shockwave 100' up on a beach at 65 m.p.h. and the boat looked better than that.

It is what it is....don't make excuses.

 

[Nord]

No.

I believe JW mentioned in a previous thread that he built less than 20 infused boats. In this thread he mentioned that he knew of three with issues, besides the used boat just purchased in AZ, so 4 total.

I have an 07 Shadow, standard layup, that has no issues at all.

Standard layup really doesn't apply to the infused boat problems. I should have made that more clear. The question is "will" the infused boats delaminate in the future?

 

[newmexico]

Even more bullshit that any boats were sold built in this obviously unproven manner.