Ultra Boats update

[LargeOrangeFont]

I would drive down and speak with them in person. Don't take whats on here as gospel as there is lots of "3rd hand info", but you should check in with your own eyes and talk to the owner.

Yes, get down there to get the story for yourself and have him tell you to your face that “everything is good” and there is “nothing to see here” and that you can’t see the progress on the boat because “it is in the booth” and “we are just putting the second coat on now”.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Yes, get down there to get the story for yourself and have him tell you to your face that “everything is good” and there is “nothing to see here” and that you can’t see the progress on the boat because “it is in the booth” and “we are just putting the second coat on now”.

It might happen from reading others accounts! I was just saying, if it was me, i'd get down there regularly and monitor my build. Hopefully there's no problem.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

It might happen from reading others accounts! I was just saying, if it was me, i'd get down there regularly and monitor my build. Hopefully there's no problem.

Agreed. I hope the build is going as planned. But even if 25% of what has been said is true, it be there in person to investigate the status of my build.

 

[CobraDave]

And then of course post all of your findings....


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[Mike K]

Looking back ... before social media and forums like this ... you could run & hide and most people wouldn't know about how your business was doing ... or how you screwed over some people ... but times have changed ... these businesses have good people watching them and they are sharing their experiences with their friends and like minded people ... think of Yelp and forums like this. Social Media is the true "Better Business Bureau " and the best leverage potential customers ever had.

 

[DRYHEAT]

Looking back ... before social media and forums like this ... you could run & hide and most people wouldn't know about how your business was doing ... or how you screwed over some people ... but times have changed ... these businesses have good people watching them and they are sharing their experiences with their friends and like minded people ... think of Yelp and forums like this. Social Media is the true "Better Business Bureau " and the best leverage potential customers ever had.

It’s a bit of a double-edged sword, social media can also destroy a business Based on speculation.

 

[ductape1000]

It’s a bit of a double-edged sword, social media can also destroy a business Based on speculation.

This is why businesses need to embrace social media these days...

It can make you or break you. You have to control your own destiny.

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[DRYHEAT]

This is why businesses need to embrace social media these days...

It can make you or break you. You have to control your own destiny.

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While I do agree with what you say, it only takes one or two disgruntled customers to blow something up on the Internet and destroy a viable business.

I learned a long time ago you can’t make 100 percent of the people happy 100 percent of the time.

 

[Bigbore500r]

While I do agree with what you say, it only takes one or two disgruntled customers to blow something up on the Internet and destroy a viable business.

I learned a long time ago you can’t make 100 percent of the people happy 100 percent of the time.

The other issue is that most people don't go out of their way to post on the internet, or Yelp, when they are super pleased with a business. But you can be damn sure they will blow up the forums, social media and review websites when they are displeased. It's like reading about fuel pump issues with chevy tahoes......if you go on the web, you'd think every tahoe made had a faulty fuel pump. The reality is the fuel pump died at 100k miles, and it was 1% of the vehicles produced.

 

[RiverDave]

Does anyone have any new updates on Ultra? Unfortunately, I have a new build with Ultra and haven’t heard much. I checked this forum recently and seen all the bad news about them. Not sure what to do, my money and traded in boat looks like it will be stolen/lost at this point.

What are you building?

Don't get too wound up on what you are reading on the internet. A lot of the responses on Facebook, and even some on here are just people making comments. That all said, I'd be diligent with my follow ups and payment schedules, but I don't think I'd be concerned that your trade in, and money are gone or anything like that.

Somethings that people don't know.. Rusty is laying up Magic hulls for Preston right now, and he has other work going on as well.

RD

 

[ductape1000]

While I do agree with what you say, it only takes one or two disgruntled customers to blow something up on the Internet and destroy a viable business.

I learned a long time ago you can’t make 100 percent of the people happy 100 percent of the time.

The other issue is that most people don't go out of their way to post on the internet, or Yelp, when they are super pleased with a business. But you can be damn sure they will blow up the forums, social media and review websites when they are displeased. It's like reading about fuel pump issues with chevy tahoes......if you go on the web, you'd think every tahoe made had a faulty fuel pump. The reality is the fuel pump died at 100k miles, and it was 1% of the vehicles produced.

I totally understand the motivation of people. Bitch first, praise second.

This is why many businesses are asking for their customers to help them with their social media presence. We as consumers need to change the dynamic and take a moment to share our good stories.

The problem with this situation is the business is being talked about because they are not accessible. Unfortunately if your train is running toward a cliff, you best jump in the driver's seat and hit the brakes! Sad as it may be, your reputation is a full time job.

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[Taboma]

While I do agree with what you say, it only takes one or two disgruntled customers to blow something up on the Internet and destroy a viable business.

I learned a long time ago you can’t make 100 percent of the people happy 100 percent of the time.

I rarely base my shopping decision on negative reviews alone. I consider the product or service, I consider the perceived intelligence, attitude and common sense of the reviewers based on review content and presentation. But in the end my final decision usually is biased towards how the business represents itself by it's response to the negative review and accusations. In this particular case, Ultra / Rusty (Whom I don't know or have ever done business with) was advised by Dave that he's getting negative reviews and why. He could easily come on here and address the concerns and proposed remedies (If there are any), yet he chooses to remain silent --- either A. He feels this conversation has no merit and hence deserves no response ---- Or B. Has no viable response and this is business as normal for him, take it or leave it.
I can't see this position garnering him any new clients, at least from RDP.

 

[Bigbore500r]

What are you building?

Don't get too wound up on what you are reading on the internet. A lot of the responses on Facebook, and even some on here are just people making comments. That all said, I'd be diligent with my follow ups and payment schedules, but I don't think I'd be concerned that your trade in, and money are gone or anything like that.

Somethings that people don't know.. Rusty is laying up Magic hulls for Preston right now, and he has other work going on as well.

RD

What brand will they be sold under? Are they laying up deck boats?

 

[RiverDave]

Yes, get down there to get the story for yourself and have him tell you to your face that “everything is good” and there is “nothing to see here” and that you can’t see the progress on the boat because “it is in the booth” and “we are just putting the second coat on now”.

Did this happen to you, or someone you know recently with Ultra?

RD

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Did this happen to you, or someone you know recently with Ultra?

RD

No, not with Ultra specifically but I’ve heard and seen it all before multiple times.

Again,if 25% of what has been said is true, I’d be very concerned about my build... wouldn’t you?

(I’m talking in general here) It sucks seeing people getting taken advantage of. Just because someone is huffing resin fumes all day is not an excuse to treat customers that way.

 

[throttle]

IMO, I would never pay anything more than a deposit on a new boat build. It gets built, its gets delivered and the the builder gets paid.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

IMO, I would never pay anything more than a deposit on a new boat build. It gets built, its gets delivered and the the builder gets paid.

So you expect the builder to throw down the 80k to Merc for engine and drive package on the hope that you follow through with the purchase?

 

[4Waters]

So you expect the builder to throw down the 80k to Merc for engine and drive package on the hope that you follow through with the purchase?

The builder shouldn't make a dime until delivery, all the builder should ask for is what he is out for parts and that should be the deposit, engines, drives hardware etc.... the builder can add their markup on the parts at delivery.

 

[FreeBird236]

So you expect the builder to throw down the 80k to Merc for engine and drive package on the hope that you follow through with the purchase?

In 08 I only paid 10% down to Eliminator, of course it was a 496 which could have been used in anything and the whole purchase was under $80,000. They also had the boat done in about three and a half weeks and I had to scramble for the money.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

So you expect the builder to throw down the 80k to Merc for engine and drive package on the hope that you follow through with the purchase?

Yes. It is called working capital. Every business has these problems, and there are solutions for them.

Some payment schedule along the way can be appropriate however based on progress.

If you are going to walk away from a 10%-20% deposit, that is just 10%-20% more profit the builder just made on the boat, or he can offer it at a discount to someone that will snatch it up.

 

[Dirtbag]

I dont understand how he is laying up hulls but not finishing boats? Whats the deal on that?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I dont understand how he is laying up hulls but not finishing boats? Whats the deal on that?

It is quick income, and he does not have to deal with sales, lead times, other vendors/employees, or need working capital. Pop out a hull, get paid. Rinse & repeat.

I'd take that deal all day long, however that is not an indication either way if the business is healthy or unhealthy. If it is unhealthy I'd expect him to do whatever work is getting him money the soonest, which is probably not rigging a new boat... it is popping out hulls.

 

[Uncle Dave]

A high level series of steps all requiring their own skillset looks like this.

Mold prep/repair
Gelcoat
Glass Layup
Installing a stringer grid and tank
Fitments of the upper and lower
Rigging
Interior
Setup/ Test
License tags

Are all different skills.

What anyones given staff or ownership can accomplish on its own with no outside support varies.

Management and ownership do different things at different shops.

UD

 

[DrunkenSailor]

In 08 I only paid 10% down to Eliminator, of course it was a 496 which could have been used in anything and the whole purchase was under $80,000. They also had the boat done in about three and a half weeks and I had to scramble for the money.

Depending on when that was in 08 Merc may have sold that motor to Eliminator for less than your deposit or someone else backed out of a build and they had one laying around. If I were building boats today it would be payment schedules and progress reports. You want to buy a boat cash on delivery go look at the 2 models sitting in inventory. You want to build custom, payments are due on these dates for these amounts with progress reports coming back to you on these dates. Boat builders have crap for collateral. Their tooling isn't worth much. Few own the buildings they are in. Getting working lines of credit for any amount is difficult. The guys who have it usually get it from private equity in exchange for X% annually and X% of any upside. Why would anyone invest in a boat builder when the stock market is generating 15%+ returns. If the builder owns their building then your talking a CRE deal which more lenders will get behind as the collateral actually has value.

The performance boating industry was started by small players. The Halletts, Eliminators, Campbells were all small companies. I fear in today's environment there won't be the opportunity for small companies to compete. We all bitch about roll bar boats which are the most inefficient hulls in existence on purpose. 450 hp gets you 35 mph top speed. Want to know what the future of boating looks like? Just look at Mastercrafts sales numbers compared to Eliminator and Hallett/Nordic.

Without small players in the performance boating industry there isn't going to be a performance boating industry outside of toys for the rich. Guys who can do their own rigging like headless hula are getting fewer and fewer. As the older generation of performance guys leave us who is going to take their place? Sure we all love to see a 2000 hp Doug Wright, DCM or CC but how many of us can actually stroke the check to pay for a new one from the factory? Entry level boats from custom builders cost 100k today. DCM, Outerlimits and Midnight Express are all building drool worthy boats but 450k is a ton of money.

I'm not going communist here if you can afford one of these bitchen machines please go build one. The big guys will continue to make the sport better and innovation will breed innovation. But without the Shockwave's, Howard's, Advantage's and even the Ultra's of the world then a performance boat will be relegated to a poster on the wall of my garage that I stare at as I wipe down my Bayliner. Which is a future that may all to quickly become a reality. Very few performance boats were built between 2008 and 2015. Very few boats during that time, and those being built today, were/are smaller than 25'. Builders are trending away from affordable performance because expensive performance is so much more profitable.

I am ranting way off topic here but my point is that Ultra is building anticipated hulls right now (Magic). Sounds like yes they are having financial difficulties (Their website is still down by the way). Instead of piling on a small builder that our sport desperately needs I wish the community would come together instead to support one of our own who appears to need it.

 

[Advantage 1]

When Advantage built my 25' [2009], our deal was $500 down to get in the mold, 50% half-way through the build and 50% upon delivery. 496HO package.

Bill emailed me pictures at least once a week... sometimes more. And I stopped by several times through the process. Always a pleasure to work with him.

 

[riverroyal]

What are you building?

Don't get too wound up on what you are reading on the internet. A lot of the responses on Facebook, and even some on here are just people making comments. That all said, I'd be diligent with my follow ups and payment schedules, but I don't think I'd be concerned that your trade in, and money are gone or anything like that.

Somethings that people don't know.. Rusty is laying up Magic hulls for Preston right now, and he has other work going on as well.

RD

Wait, what? Rusty is doing magic hulls for horizon? Is that building built on a burial ground? He is in business with Rusty?..

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

When Advantage built my 25' [2009], our deal was $500 down to get in the mold, 50% half-way through the build and 50% upon delivery. 496HO package.

Bill emailed me pictures at least once a week... sometimes more. And I stopped by several times through the process. Always a pleasure to work with him.

That seems reasonable on both sides.

 

[RiverDave]

(Pic courtesy of Goodtime$)

Wait, what? Rusty is doing magic hulls for horizon? Is that building built on a burial ground? He is in business with Rusty?..

Preston has all of the magic molds (Not sure if that's in care for a bank, or personally). Rusty is laying up some hulls for him, and Preston will be selling some 18 magics!



RD

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

Sounds like yes they are having financial difficulties (Their website is still down by the way). Instead of piling on a small builder that our sport desperately needs I wish the community would come together instead to support one of our own who appears to need it.

I obviously trimmed your post to save space and I'm really only addressing this part anyway.

Right or wrong, some serious allegations have been made and referenced to in this thread and the owner of Ultra is apparently aware of it.
If he chose to address these allegations, I'm quite certain the RDP community would support him wholeheartedly.

Instead it has the appearance of "I'll ignore it until it goes away", and go away it will. In the aftermath, the RDP community will just assume what they will.
Not the best approach for a business that is so closely tied to reputation.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

I obviously trimmed your post to save space and I'm really only addressing this part anyway.

Right or wrong, some serious allegations have been made and referenced to in this thread and the owner of Ultra is apparently aware of it.
If he chose to address these allegations, I'm quite certain the RDP community would support him wholeheartedly.

Instead it has the appearance of "I'll ignore it until it goes away", and go away it will. In the aftermath, the RDP community will just assume what they will.
Not the best approach for a business that is so closely tied to reputation.

Don't disagree with you there. I just look out and see lots of torches and pitchforks and it saddens me. I would like to hear from the owner as much as everyone but I don't know that as the owner I would be talking directly to the mob. I would reach out to the customers who were wronged, perceived or otherwise first and try to make them whole. Regardless he is probably looking at litigation right now and can't say anything to anyone without fear of it being used against him. Any lawyer worth their salt is telling him to be quiet right now and unfortunately his reputation and the brand is going to suffer from it.

 

[Advantage 1]

That seems reasonable on both sides.

I thought so too. Funky times back in 2009... it all worked out just fine.

Boat builds should be fun.

It is really unfortunate others do not have such a nice experience.

 

[Ziggy]

I've never purchased a new boat with anything more than a $5k deposit and full payment at time of delivery.
Anyone that needs my cash to operate their business on a daily basis does not deserve my money.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I've never purchased a new boat with anything more than a $5k deposit and full payment at time of delivery.
Anyone that needs my cash to operate their business on a daily basis does not deserve my money.

I agree with this.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

Wait, so Rusty is laying up Magic's for Preston but can't finish his own builds................noted

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Don't disagree with you there. I just look out and see lots of torches and pitchforks and it saddens me. I would like to hear from the owner as much as everyone but I don't know that as the owner I would be talking directly to the mob. I would reach out to the customers who were wronged, perceived or otherwise first and try to make them whole. Regardless he is probably looking at litigation right now and can't say anything to anyone without fear of it being used against him. Any lawyer worth their salt is telling him to be quiet right now and unfortunately his reputation and the brand is going to suffer from it.

So will you be giving him 50% down on a boat build tomorrow morning?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Wait, so Rusty is laying up Magic's for Preston but can't finish his own builds................noted

It seems way easier to lay up a bunch of boats than to layup and finish a few boats.

 

[GRADS]

It's looking like the black stripe on this boat does not match up where the deck meets the hull.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

So will you be giving him 50% down on a boat build tomorrow morning?

We all have our list of boats that if the right one came along we would seriously consider making the jump. To be honest I never have actually liked the Ultra lineup. I have heard good and bad but on a V from a west coast builder I would be looking at one of the new outboard Lavey's that they are putting together. That being said if I was in the market for a new deck boat I would definitely go down there are talk to him, nortech, howard, eliminator, etc. before making a decision. I am not a fan of the modern deck boats that are out right now.

 

[Q4mtxUS]

So,,,??????
brand “X” boat manufacturer lays up bare hulls from former brand “X” boat manufacturer to be rigged by brand “X” dealership and upholstered by brand “X” upholstery shop to be transported on brand “X” trailer under the brand of, ?????
See what I’m sayin?

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Outside of the big E ticket that thing is bad ass.

 

[RiverDave]

So will you be giving him 50% down on a boat build tomorrow morning?

With the exception of two I can’t really think of any of them that I’d drop 50% up front on.. lol

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

We all have our list of boats that if the right one came along we would seriously consider making the jump. To be honest I never have actually liked the Ultra lineup. I have heard good and bad but on a V from a west coast builder I would be looking at one of the new outboard Lavey's that they are putting together. That being said if I was in the market for a new deck boat I would definitely go down there are talk to him, nortech, howard, eliminator, etc. before making a decision. I am not a fan of the modern deck boats that are out right now.

The 3 brands you listed are not even in the same galaxy as Ultra in its current form. You are talking about 3 companies that have more demand than they have capacity to build boats.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

With the exception of two I can’t really think of any of them that I’d drop 50% up front on.. lol

10% only keeps the shop going for a month.. how do you expect to fund the business and keep the doors open for a small underdog???

Plus your boat won’t get built before the doors close.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

The 3 brands you listed are not even in the same galaxy as Ultra in its current form. You are talking about 3 companies that have more demand than they have capacity to build boats.

I had heard good things about the Shadow which is why I would go take a look. I have also heard that they are a really complicated build due to many mold pieces. Especially if I could get one with the next engine up for the same price as one of the competitors. This is exactly my point competition is good. I may not go with an Ultra at the end of the day but that doesn't mean that there isn't a buyer that would.

 

[SBMech]

Does anyone have any new updates on Ultra? Unfortunately, I have a new build with Ultra and haven’t heard much. I checked this forum recently and seen all the bad news about them. Not sure what to do, my money and traded in boat looks like it will be stolen/lost at this point.

I'd be camping in front of the shop waiting to talk to them. If they are not returning your phone calls (or jesus not answering the phone!?!) you should be concerned.

As a business owner myself, communication is the only thing that matters. I have no dog in this fight, but it looks bad from my limited view.

 

[kiethco]

Wait, so Rusty is laying up Magic's for Preston but can't finish his own builds................noted

Said the interwebs...........
So far only one deal seems to have gone south, I'm sure we haven't heard both sides of that one either. I'm leaving a message for Rusty now on the Bat phone to see when he can get me in. This is how I've worked with him for 2 years. Like I said earlier, I flinched a little when this stuff surfaced, but then I remembered how effed it is dealing with customers sometimes and the boating crowd can be particularly snooty at times, I see the shit some of the current boating crowd throws money at, lol. I'll keep this thread updated on my progress this off season.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

I would rather have 20 custom boat builders than 5. 20 guys will work hard to build the next best boat that another guy is ignoring. Howard builds the best 28' V? Fine i'm gonna build the best 21' V. Schiada builds the best 24? Wonder if I can make a better one using a vented step bottom. No one is building a west coast CC I bet our 32 would make a great CC boat. See what Outerlimits did this year with the fastest V? I wonder if we could implement some of their lamination techniques into our process to make the whole lineup better. 20 guys will push each other harder to be better. 5 guys will build one halo model so they can claim to be the fastest on the water that year and the 21' v bottom hasn't had a design change in 25 years because it's the entry level boat and you can't charge over x amount for it.

 

[JB in so cal]

What are you building?

Don't get too wound up on what you are reading on the internet. A lot of the responses on Facebook, and even some on here are just people making comments. That all said, I'd be diligent with my follow ups and payment schedules, but I don't think I'd be concerned that your trade in, and money are gone or anything like that.

Somethings that people don't know.. Rusty is laying up Magic hulls for Preston right now, and he has other work going on as well.

for those of us that don't know, who's Preston and what's up with the Magics?

RD

 

[comfortably numb]

Has anyone heard from John West about who has the rights to the Ultra molds? Maybe he canceled his deal with Rusty if he still owns the molds?

 

[DrunkenSailor]

With the exception of two I can’t really think of any of them that I’d drop 50% up front on.. lol

What are your two?