Trump lifts ban on import of Ivory

[Bobby V]

You forgot Hotboat!

Dave doesn't like us bringing up HB.

 

[JBS]

Dave doesn't like us bringing up HB.

Dave does not come around these parts

 

[Bobby V]

Dave does not come around these parts

He does when the tattlebaby inmates call him.

 

[Stainless]

He does when the tattlebaby inmates call him.

Out of the park!

 

[ChumpChange]

Dave doesn't like us bringing up HB.

Noted.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2147366778824994

This day can be marked as the day the Elephants and the Lions future became crystal clear. Tanzania can no longer protect them, simply because the hunters have stopped coming. Pasanini hunting safaris has surrendered ALL of his formidable areas back to the government. I have hunted in several of his once beautiful concessions. The animals will all be gone. Stainless' prediction that there will be less Elephants will become true, but not because of guys like me. They needed the protections offered by hunters dollars.

Lions and Elephants and probably most other game will be gone in these areas. As people stop hunting, moneys stops, anti poaching dollars stop.

"If it pays, it stays" ....when the money stops, what happens next?

I completely understand that hunting these animals, saves the species is a hard concept to understand.

Stainless, you've won. Africa's wildlife has lost.

 

[Stainless]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2147366778824994

This day can be marked as the day the Elephants and the Lions future became crystal clear. Tanzania can no longer protect them, simply because the hunters have stopped coming. Pasanini hunting safaris has surrendered ALL of his formidable areas back to the government. I have hunted in several of his once beautiful concessions. The animals will all be gone. Stainless' prediction that there will be less Elephants will become true, but not because of guys like me. They needed the protections offered by hunters dollars.

Lions and Elephants and probably most other game will be gone in these areas. As people stop hunting, moneys stops, anti poaching dollars stop.

"If it pays, it stays" ....when the money stops, what happens next?

I completely understand that hunting these animals, saves the species is a hard concept to understand.

Stainless, you've won. Africa's wildlife has lost.

I thought Trump reversed himself and going to let YOU kill elephants on a case by case basis? What’s changed Nganga? Yes it seems Africa’s wildlife will lose under Trump. [emoji107]

 

[500bbc]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2147366778824994

This day can be marked as the day the Elephants and the Lions future became crystal clear. Tanzania can no longer protect them, simply because the hunters have stopped coming. Pasanini hunting safaris has surrendered ALL of his formidable areas back to the government. I have hunted in several of his once beautiful concessions. The animals will all be gone. Stainless' prediction that there will be less Elephants will become true, but not because of guys like me. They needed the protections offered by hunters dollars.

Lions and Elephants and probably most other game will be gone in these areas. As people stop hunting, moneys stops, anti poaching dollars stop.

"If it pays, it stays" ....when the money stops, what happens next?

I completely understand that hunting these animals, saves the species is a hard concept to understand.

Stainless, you've won. Africa's wildlife has lost.

I've argued with Libturds, no, really, about conservation before. Ask them if they've ever volunteered to construct a quail or sheep guzzler. Asked them they've ever supported Ducks Unlimited. Every single one the felching experts said the same thing "Why waste time and effort conserving game just so you can kill it".

Fucking imbeciles...

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

I thought Trump reversed himself and going to let YOU kill elephants on a case by case basis? What’s changed Nganga? Yes it seems Africa’s wildlife will lose under Trump. [emoji107]

Won't argue the semantics. As they say, it is what it is. Point of my post is; One of Tanzania's largest safari operators can no longer afford his stewardship of the vast tracts of wild Africa. There will be no anti-poaching, there will be nothing but wide open Africa, no anti-poaching means everything will die. This really isn't an Obama/Trump issue, it really is a public perception issue. Not unlike the current "Assault Rifle" issue. The media has pushed Americas short attention span where they want it, to accomplish a goal. There isn't a politician alive that would try to defend killing Elephants and Lions to his constituency. There just isn't enough international hunters to be represented. Politicians live to be re-elected.

The sad truth is, this was but the first domino to fall. There is another operator over there named "Shinee" he owns large air charter business's, many hunting blocks, I have heard he will next relinquish his GMA's (Game Management Area) back the Government.

Stainless, throughout this entire thread, I simply tried to inform people here as to the facts, without the hunters dollars, EVERYTHING will die. So now instead of sacrificing a few Elephants and a few Lions, the area will become a wasteland devoid of tree's (Wood poachers) and devoid of wildlife.

Not sure if you watched the video, The Female Cape Buffalo caught in the wire snare will be the rule, no longer the exception.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Here's a pretty informative article that gives more specifics on why the Pasanisi family withdrew their hunting blocks. Here's some proof that...Yes, we must kill them, to save them. And no, we won't just donate the money we would have spent. Our hunting dollars will just go elsewhere. But feel free.

The antis win, Africa's wildlife loses. Still make sense to not hunt these beasts?

https://www.ippmedia.com/en/news/concern-over-wildlife-conservation-top-firm-surrenders-tourist

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

This is a friend of mine in Zambia. His name is Alister Norton. He took over a hunting block that was classified as "depleted" he got it cheap. He began anti poaching activity. In less than 6 months, he confiscated all the poachers rifles you see and over 4,000 wire snares. Without his anti poaching, funded by America hunters, what would his area look like?

 

[94Nautique]

View attachment 628366

This is a friend of mine in Zambia. His name is Alister Norton. He took over a hunting block that was classified as "depleted" he got it cheap. He began anti poaching activity. In less than 6 months, he confiscated all the poachers rifles you see and over 4,000 wire snares. Without his anti poaching, funded by America hunters, what would his area look like?

It would look like Chicago or Detroit, or any other formerly great American city now run into the ground by democrats, but I digress...

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

http://www.thepatriot.co.bw/news/item/5602-lift-hunting-ban-on-elephants-professor-mbaiwa.html

Hmmm, hunting being used as a tool. What a novel concept.

 

[530RL]

http://www.thepatriot.co.bw/news/item/5602-lift-hunting-ban-on-elephants-professor-mbaiwa.html

Hmmm, hunting being used as a tool. What a novel concept.

The sooner all these species no longer inhabit the earth, the sooner there can be agreement on this issue.

Although tragic, that is the only possible rational path to agreement amongst the party's.

 

[Stainless]

The sooner all these species no longer inhabit the earth, the sooner there can be agreement on this issue.

Although tragic, that is the only possible rational path to agreement amongst the party's.

Boom!

 

[buck35]

The sooner all these species no longer inhabit the earth, the sooner there can be agreement on this issue.

Although tragic, that is the only possible rational path to agreement amongst the party's.

So its better to kill them all instead of a few???? Please explain the logic used here.

Boom!

As a phisherman , do you try and totally depete a lake so there are none left to catch?

 

[530RL]

So its better to kill them all instead of a few???? Please explain the logic used here.



As a phisherman , do you try and totally depete a lake so there are none left to catch?

I've honestly never heard the argument that in order to save a fish species, you must kill a fish species as is the argument in trophy game. Normally they try not to kill them but protect them.

So the fish analogy seems somewhat non-applicable.

This debate over these large "trophy" animals is unresolvable which I fully accept. So the sooner they are all gone, the sooner everyone can get along as there will be nothing to argue about.

 

[buck35]

I've honestly never heard the argument that in order to save a fish species, you must kill a fish species as is the argument in trophy game. Normally they try not to kill them but protect them.

So the fish analogy seems somewhat non-applicable.

This debate over these large "trophy" animals is unresolvable which I fully accept. So the sooner they are all gone, the sooner everyone can get along as there will be nothing to argue about.

Thats a sad outlook and I am truly sorry thats the way you see it.
Stain is a fisher so I wanted to put in terms he could grasp.

 

[Stainless]

So its better to kill them all instead of a few???? Please explain the logic used here.



As a phisherman , do you try and totally depete a lake so there are none left to catch?

Catch and release.

 

[rivrrts429]

I've honestly never heard the argument that in order to save a fish species, you must kill a fish species as is the argument in trophy game. Normally they try not to kill them but protect them.

So the fish analogy seems somewhat non-applicable.

This debate over these large "trophy" animals is unresolvable which I fully accept. So the sooner they are all gone, the sooner everyone can get along as there will be nothing to argue about.

You do realize that the money to protect these animals comes from those that hunt them.

The local population views them as a nuisance and would rather them gone. The locals, or at least the vast majority, could give two fucks about the bleeding hearts of other nations.

Without the big dollars comes no local paychecks to protect the herds. No local paychecks means people killing them like they’re ridding a gopher in their lawn.

You can despise the “sport” of trophy hunting and still agree it’s likely responsible for sustaining animal populations in the long term.

 

[SBMech]

You do realize that the money to protect these animals comes from those that hunt them.

The local population views them as a nuisance and would rather them gone. The locals, or at least the vast majority, could give two fucks about the bleeding hearts of other nations.

Without the big dollars comes no local paychecks to protect the herds. No local paychecks means people killing them like they’re ridding a gopher in their lawn.

You can despise the “sport” of trophy hunting and still agree it’s likely responsible for sustaining animal populations in the long term.

You are wasting your time. Even though they both claim to be hunters, I very much feel that they are lying, since most people who actively hunt are part of conservation efforts to manage animal populations, since man has made such a large impact on their natural habitat.

They will never understand. Like most liberal or independent douchebags they feel their "opinion" is worth more than years of actual statistics and conservation efforts.

 

[rivrrts429]

You are wasting your time. Even though they both claim to be hunters, I very much feel that they are lying, since most people who actively hunt are part of conservation efforts to manage animal populations, since man has made such a large impact on their natural habitat.

They will never understand. Like most liberal or independent douchebags they feel their "opinion" is worth more than years of actual statistics and conservation efforts.

Im not trying to change their mind about their position on big game hunting itself. They have their reasons and I have no intention of charging that hill.

Relying on extinction as a viable option doesn’t seem well thought either. At least not for an individual who identifies themselves as a hunter, or someone who did at one time. I’ve yet to meet one.

 

[regor]

Catch and release.

You're not suppose release trophy carp!!!

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

I'm guessing the folks here in America know whats best...better than the folks whom walk among these grim beasts.

https://africasustainableconservati...parliament-votes-to-end-elephant-hunting-ban/

 

[530RL]

I'm guessing the folks here in America know whats best...better than the folks whom walk among these grim beasts.

https://africasustainableconservati...parliament-votes-to-end-elephant-hunting-ban/

The worlds last male White Northern Rhino died in March, so give it a decade or so and this disagreement too will be resolved.

 

[thetub]

as a kid I was a terror with the bb gun. would shoot anything that moved.

but one day an enormous amount of guilt hit me and since never shot anything again.

take that back shot at yotes in my yard to protect my cat.

 

[500bbc]

The worlds last male White Northern Rhino died in March, so give it a decade or so and this disagreement too will be resolved.

So you support aborting big game babies?

Wheels up in ten!
Good job!

 

[Stainless]

The worlds last male White Northern Rhino died in March, so give it a decade or so and this disagreement too will be resolved.

Great example Dan!

 

[Stainless]

as a kid I was a terror with the bb gun. would shoot anything that moved.

but one day an enormous amount of guilt hit me and since never shot anything again.

X2 Tubby, and I’m not against hunting, just against killing animals for sport.

 

[Stainless]

This was very disappointing to read in the newspaper this morning. Even though it may have been killed by a poacher it’s just as dead and was killed for no other reason than a pelt for someone to brag about. Here’s the story on a Phoenix TV station.
https://www.12news.com/amp/article?...n-killed-officials-say&contentId=75-566747436

 

[rivrrts429]

This was very disappointing to read in the newspaper this morning. Even though it may have been killed by a poacher it’s just as dead and was killed for no other reason than a pelt for someone to brag about. Here’s the story on a Phoenix TV station.
https://www.12news.com/amp/article?...n-killed-officials-say&contentId=75-566747436

So a Poacher is responsible, noted [emoji106]

 

[rivrrts429]

Oh boy... we got some deleting of posts going on with the Pretzel and his echo.

 

[Stainless]

So a Poacher is responsible, noted [emoji106]

Poachers and sport hunters are one in the same to me! As I said, it was done purely to brag about!

Fwiw I haven’t deleted any posts and stand by every post I’ve made in this thread.

 

[rivrrts429]

Poachers and sport hunters are one in the same to me. As I said, it was done purely to brag about!

Fwiw I haven’t deleted any posts and stand by every post I’ve made in this thread.

Thanks for putting your post back up [emoji106]

 

[Stainless]

Thanks for putting your post back up [emoji106]

Never took any post down. If I did it would have a new post number plus be out of logical order wouldn’t it?
Nice try though!

 

[was thatguy]

Poachers and sport hunters are one in the same to me!

What a fucking idiot.

 

[Stainless]

What a fucking idiot.

Why, because your buddy does it and you’re ONLY here to support him dumbass?
EMAL!

 

[rivrrts429]

Why, because your buddy does it and you’re ONLY here to support him dumbass?
EMAL!

The irony of that statement [emoji1]

 

[was thatguy]

Why, because your buddy does it and you’re ONLY here to support him dumbass?
EMAL!

No, because it’s one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard. I also quit hunting in my 20’s in Alaska.
I did not enjoy killing for “sport” even though we ate moose and whatever else I hunted.
I do not hunt today. I do not enjoy it.
But having lived in a State where game management is a MAJOR concern, and having an Uncle back then who was a game biologist for the State and an avid hunter, I fully understand the delicate nature and balance of game management in an ever changing world.
And it is a balancing act. To call hunters poachers is just flat ignorant.
Here’s something that you might not understand. Species go extinct.
It isnt ALWAYS due to man. But when it is, it is ALWAYS due to lack of management or the POACHING of animals outside of the plan of management.
For management to work, it has to be followed.
Management is the key to preservation and coexistence.

The human population in Africa know this. An ever encroaching world on the animals habitat makes the animals vulnerable.

There has to be a balance or extinction will occur as the animals are rendered as “nuisances” to the human population.
This balance is fragile. Any little paradigm change upsets it.
Poachers get shot with automatic weapons in Africa, by the army and other “poacher hunters”
The African management agencies understand the upset in the balance that poachers cause.

To call hunters poachers is just plain idiocy.

 

[Stainless]

No, because it’s one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard. I also quit hunting in my 20’s in Alaska.
I did not enjoy killing for “sport” even though we ate moose and whatever else I hunted.
I do not hunt today. I do not enjoy it.
But having lived in a State where game management is a MAJOR concern, and having an Uncle back then who was a game biologist for the State and an avid hunter, I fully understand the delicate nature and balance of game management in an ever changing world.
And it is a balancing act. To call hunters poachers is just flat ignorant.
Here’s something that you might not understand. Species go extinct.
It isnt ALWAYS due to man. But when it is, it is ALWAYS due to lack of management or the POACHING of animals outside of the plan of management.
For management to work, it has to be followed.
Management is the key to preservation and coexistence.

The human population in Africa know this. An ever encroaching world on the animals habitat makes the animals vulnerable.

There has to be a balance or extinction will occur as the animals are rendered as “nuisances” to the human population.
This balance is fragile. Any little paradigm change upsets it.
Poachers get shot with automatic weapons in Africa, by the army and other “poacher hunters”
The African management agencies understand the upset in the balance that poachers cause.

To call hunters poachers is just plain idiocy.

I read about 2 sentences and see this is just more SCRAMBLED BULLSHIT with a few words rearranged idiot!
I stand by my statement about “sport hunters” and poachers being one in the same!
EMAL!!

 

[Stainless]

I think I said it somewhere in this thread, those Govt’s should sell poacher tags.
[emoji106][emoji106]

 

[Stainless]

The irony of that statement [emoji1]

I started the thread, your statement fits you not me!

 

[was thatguy]

In addition, I’ve seen first hand the absolute debacle’s that occur when activists get involved with game management.
Alaska would have certain areas where imbalances would occur as far as wolf populations for instance.
Normally, you just let Mother Nature work her course and predators move on into other areas as they thin the moose.
But sometimes that isn’t feasable because a human population has increased in this area or that area.
So they would have a short open season on wolf. Shooting from planes and whatever.
The wolf lovers had a hissy. They shut it down. So...the wolf increased exponentially, the moose took a beating, and the human population exterminated every wolf they saw...at least the ones that didn’t starve from overpopulation. It was a disaster.
If the wolves could have been thinned back a little, the balance could have been maintained.
It took years for that area to recover.
This was many years ago. I don’t remember the areas or the years so don’t ask.

 

[was thatguy]

I read about 2 sentences and see this is just more SCRAMBLED BULLSHIT with a few words rearranged idiot!
I stand by my statement about “sport hunters” and poachers being one in the same!
EMAL!!

Well, 2 sentences is about your limit.

 

[Stainless]

Well, 2 sentences is about your limit.

You know what I did pickup on in your blather of bullshit? You left the word “sport” off every reference to “hunter” in that post hypocrite. What’s the deal, you don’t want to insult a certain member? I think you foundered on Talapia!
EMAL!

 

[was thatguy]

You know what I did pickup on in your blather of bullshit? You left the word “sport” off every reference to “hunter” in that post hypocrite. What’s the deal, you don’t want to insult a certain member? I think you foundered on Talapia!
EMAL!

I’ll gladly add the word sport into my post.
You needn’t worry about me conversing with or “offending” Steve.
We are both adults and speak to each other honestly and openly.

 

[Old Texan]

Poachers and sport hunters are one in the same to me! As I said, it was done purely to brag about!

Fwiw I haven’t deleted any posts and stand by every post I’ve made in this thread.

I agree whomever killed that beautiful animal was wrong and to me a criminal which is a poacher.

I am not understanding what the meaning of "sport hunter" is though. Hunting is considered a sport and hunters are responsible people that follow game and hunting rules/laws.

If you are defining "sport hunter" as someone that kills for the trophy of a hyde, that person is a poaching illegal hunter.

You poke at Nganda who is a law abiding hunter and the farthest thing from a poacher. He hunts for sport in legal situations and what he kills is consumed and feeds people that need the protein. He only kills animals that are specifically targeted controlled managed environments based on research by experts.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

The sooner all these species no longer inhabit the earth, the sooner there can be agreement on this issue.

Although tragic, that is the only possible rational path to agreement amongst the party's.

Here's how I read this; You are willing to accept Elephants become extinct, yet you are NOT willing to look at SPORT hunting with at least an open mind as to its potential conservation merits.

Poachers and sport hunters are one in the same to me! As I said, it was done purely to brag about!

Fwiw I haven’t deleted any posts and stand by every post I’ve made in this thread.

Safari Club International, Mule Deer Foundation, Desert Bighorn Sheep Society, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Arizona Antelope Society, Ducks Unlimited, Boone & Crockett, Rowland Ward, Arizona Elk Society and Arizona Wildlife Federation are all organization which support poaching and poachers? I will fool around and try to come up with a dollar amount that these organization donate to wildlife conservation through well regulated SPORT hunting.

 

[530RL]

Here's how I read this; You are willing to accept Elephants become extinct, yet you are NOT willing to look at SPORT hunting with at least an open mind as to its potential conservation merits.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

There is some admitted conflicting information here, some, I've put up.

Elephants in Botswana are NOT endangered by poachers. Yes, there is poaching but not at the level there is in Tanzania. Tanzania's Elephants are all but gone, due to illegal poaching...period.

Botswana's problem is too many Elephants. They are causing inordinate crop damage. These rural African peoples rely SOLEY on the crops for their vegetable intake, also small cotton plots. The Elephants come in and raid their crops, eat, smash, push over all of it.

The bigger danger that I see is the extreme deforestation they cause. They will move through the bush and push down every single tree.They eat a bit from the top and move on. They turn once lush African savanna into vast barren grassland.

In Botswana, they MUST be managed, in Tanzania, they MUST be protected. All the other sub-Saharan African countries fall somewhere in between. TRUTH