Tesla Continues to collapse.

[SBMech]

All I Know is they are so fucking ugly, one has to be fucking drunk to buy one ....but hey, if you are a computer geek and think you're cool, whatever tickles your fancy and helps you drink your cosmo down smoothly. They literally look like a copy of a Kia imo. Ohhhh To grow up in the 60s and 70s again when cars were real and geeks were geeks. View attachment 669579

Whenever I see a 3 coming down the road, all I can think of is the 90's dodge neon lol...it looks like it's ugly, slightly larger cousin haha!

 

[KENDOG689]

All I Know is they are so fucking ugly, one has to be fucking drunk to buy one ....but hey, if you are a computer geek and think you're cool, whatever tickles your fancy and helps you drink your cosmo down smoothly. They literally look like a copy of a Kia imo. Ohhhh To grow up in the 60s and 70s again when cars were real and geeks were geeks. View attachment 669579

Looks like a lowered jetta with a body kit.

 

[rrrr]

Ive seen all kinds of stuff requested - especially from guys that buy millions of dollars. Never hurts to ask.

You have no facts, you have third party analyst opinion you proffer as gospel.

I'll take elons position over a claim from an outsider with a position to support.
Especially one that wordsmithed their claims like needham did.
Plus other analysts have called needham on their claim.

This is an interesting read.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4189303-tesla-short-thesis-model-3-demand-wrong

Analysts make bogus claims all the time like the one you posted from Rajivendra gill that you are really trying to avoid talking about.

I enjoy your posts and although we probably won't see eye to eye Id like to hope we can agree or disagree without being disagreeable.

UD

Enough about a quote I posted. You act like I have a poster of the guy on my bedroom wall and beat off to it.

You can believe Elon all you want. There are facts about, like their faked 5,000 vehicle week, the crappy build quality, and the hundreds of unsellable cars due to quality defects.

There's also the matter of convertible bonds maturities, which will require $1.15 billion in cash to cover.

$230 million due in November 2018

• Issued in October 2013 by SolarCity
• 2.75% convertible notes
• Conversion price of $560.64

$920 million due in March 2019

• Issued in March 2014
• 0.25% convertible notes
• Conversion price of $359.87

Musk still maintains Tesla's cash position is solid, in spite of a $750+ million quarterly burn rate and the above-mentioned bond maturities.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Enough about a quote I posted. You act like I have a poster of the guy on my bedroom wall and beat off to it.

You can believe Elon all you want. There are facts about, like their faked 5,000 vehicle week, the crappy build quality, and the hundreds of unsellable cars due to quality defects.

There's also the matter of convertible bonds maturities, which will require $1.15 billion in cash to cover.

$230 million due in November 2018

• Issued in October 2013 by SolarCity
• 2.75% convertible notes
• Conversion price of $560.64

$920 million due in March 2019

• Issued in March 2014
• 0.25% convertible notes
• Conversion price of $359.87

Musk still maintains Tesla's cash position is solid, in spite of a $750+ million quarterly burn rate and the above-mentioned bond maturities.

" You act like " - stop right there - I have no idea who or what you beat off to never asked and don't care.

Lets not forget you started by coming after me with the callouts rather than just talking about the subject- not the other way around.

Completely horseshit way to have a discussion.

You have a lot of opinions about the subject and make a lot of predictions and you keep getting it wrong.
Rather than just saying you got this or that wrong you keep going with new stuff never answering to your misses.

Just a few days ago you predicted the future incorrectly again saying the whole thing would collapse if it hit 300 which was supposed to have some psychological barrier even though it was way off the 52 week low, and we saw the single biggest gain of the year after the Q2 announce. You are dodging that now like all your other mile wide misses.

Don't you think the street factors in the long-term debt and all the other things mentioned? you really think you are doing some unique math no one else catches?

I wanted to talk about it - you and bunch of other guys just want to be right and somehow make me the bad guy when you individually or collectively blow it.

The bummer here is otherwise I really like you and your posts elsewhere and most guys here and see eye to eye a very high % of the time - but you just can't keep from making it personal if you aren't right about everything - and that sucks.



UD

 

[530RL]

Tesla short sellers get Q2 results.....

 

[rcmike]

So Elon says he is going to take the company private? I wonder who is giving him an extra 70 dollars a share to buy this turd..

 

[SBMech]

So Elon says he is going to take the company private? I wonder who is giving him an extra 70 dollars a share to buy this turd..

Probably Soros rofl!

 

[j21black]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/musk-considering-taking-tesla-private

 

[GRADS]

Yep for $420 a share.

 

[Yellowboat]

Yep for $420 a share.

I think that number is what he is smoking

 

[GRADS]

We'll see what happens when the stock starts trading again in about 10 minutes....

 

[H2O]

Billionaires and their fragile egos....I guess he doesn't like all the criticism from the shorts. Taking the company private pretty much shuts down most public criticism.

Value, whats that? Saudis have $$$ to burn...whats a few billion between friends?

On the other hand, if he does not in fact have funding in place he's looking at possible securities fraud violations.

 

[530RL]

Billionaires and their fragile egos....I guess he doesn't like all the criticism from the shorts. Taking the company private pretty much shuts down most public criticism.

Value, whats that? Saudis have $$$ to burn...whats a few billion between friends?

On the other hand, if he does not in fact have funding in place he's looking at possible securities fraud violations.

Musk said he was "considering" it, he has 22 million facebook followers. It was in the financial press simultaneously and there was the Netflix/Reed Hastings case where the SEC did not take action for violations of Reg FD by simply disseminating via twitter.

He may get sued as anyone can pretty much sue anyone for anything, and the SEC may "look into it", but I doubt there is a Reg FD violation or any civil damages that can be proven as he carefully used the expression "considering" no different than takeover guys and hedge fund guys do all the time. So he gets sued, it costs him 50 million or so and he wiped out 2.5 to 3 billion from the shorts. Good business deal.

But who knows.

Got to give him some credit, he has some big balls and such a tweet certainly causes a nice little short squeeze.

 

[pronstar]

He stated “Funding secured” so I think that’s the key.
If he lied then it’s fraud.

But that’s a big “if”.
I don’t think he’d say it if it wasn’t true.

Now if he said “funding will be secured by the 3rd quarter”...well, we know how he is with deadlines LOL




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[MSum661]

Probably Soros rofl!

Saudi's went in Large flying deep just under the disclosure radar.

 

[Uncle Dave]

It'd be hilarious if the Saudis bought the whole thing right out from under wall street.

That could go either way they could keep developing - or just close it down and walk away.

They are a people with only one asset and it's quite possible they may throw away billions to protect trillions.

UD

reminds me of the old star trek joke - CBS asked Gene Roddenberry why when they had Russian and Asians and black people the bridge of the enterprise - why there were no Arabs? - He answered - "because its the future".

 

[Singleton]

Musk said he was "considering" it, he has 22 million facebook followers. It was in the financial press simultaneously and there was the Netflix/Reed Hastings case where the SEC did not take action for violations of Reg FD by simply disseminating via twitter.

He may get sued as anyone can pretty much sue anyone for anything, and the SEC may "look into it", but I doubt there is a Reg FD violation or any civil damages that can be proven as he carefully used the expression "considering" no different than takeover guys and hedge fund guys do all the time. So he gets sued, it costs him 50 million or so and he wiped out 2.5 to 3 billion from the shorts. Good business deal.

But who knows.

Got to give him some credit, he has some big balls and such a tweet certainly causes a nice little short squeeze.

The difference is Tesla in a previous quarterly release referenced his personal social media accounts as a mechanism to obtain company and product data. That along with the internal company memo released most likely will result in an SEC investigation.

 

[KevinR]

Didn't the US Government (our tax dollars) make loans to Tesla?

If so, and Tesla goes private, are the $$$ repaid?

 

[Uncle Dave]

Didn't the US Government (our tax dollars) make loans to Tesla?

If so, and Tesla goes private, are the $$$ repaid?

Not quite Tesla got factory and employer subsidies like every other manufacturer.
There may have been a big one before they went public I cant recall.

Wall Street and private equity put up the money to make the whole thing go.

Any sell out would likely require a repayment.

If the factories close down before the state contracts end there could be a repayment triggered, these amounts are pocket money to the saudis.

UD

 

[Racey]

Tesla short sellers get Q2 results.....

No matter the subject, these never get old

BTW for anyone interested this is a scene from the movie Downfall. It's a really good drama surrounding Hitler's impending defeat and final days in command.

 

[pronstar]

Didn't the US Government (our tax dollars) make loans to Tesla?

If so, and Tesla goes private, are the $$$ repaid?

They had a DOE loan that they paid, with interest, 9 years early. And well before Nissan and ford paid theirs.

Fisker also (foolishly) was given one of these loans, which they defaulted on when they went BK.

Tesla’s EV subsidy will soon run out it the US. It should be noted that every other carmaker will receive the EV subsidy until they, too, sell 200,000 cars.

So this will very soon become a liability for Tesla.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[MSum661]

If the factories close down before the state contracts end there could be a repayment triggered, these amounts are pocket money to the saudis.

UD

I believe the "undisclosed" stake in this comes from a Saudi Fund worth North of more than $250 Billion under management and will be overseen directly by a Saudi Prince.
Should get interesting.

 

[Racey]

They had a DOE loan that they paid, with interest, 9 years early. And well before Nissan and ford paid theirs.

Fisker also (foolishly) was given one of these loans, which they defaulted on when they went BK.

Tesla’s EV subsidy will soon run out it the US. It should be noted that every other carmaker will receive the EV subsidy until they, too, sell 200,000 cars.

So this will very soon become a liability for Tesla.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

What exactly is the EV Subsidy? Is this separate to the $7,500 tax deduction Credit?

 

[pronstar]

What exactly is the EV Subsidy? Is this separate to the $7,500 tax deduction Credit?

It’s the federal tax credit you mention. There may also be local credits and rebates but they vary.

It wouldn’t be unprecedented if the Saudis bought a stake.

A consortium of Kuwaiti and other middle easterners owns Aston Martin, for example.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[H2O]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but you have to tread lightly when your comments can create billion dollar changes in valuation

SEC Probes Tesla CEO Musk’s Tweets

https://www.wsj.com/articles/sec-ha...er-elon-musks-taking-private-tweet-1533757570

 

[highvoltagehands]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but you have to tread lightly when your comments can create billion dollar changes in valuation

SEC Probes Tesla CEO Musk’s Tweets

https://www.wsj.com/articles/sec-ha...er-elon-musks-taking-private-tweet-1533757570

Isn't that the point? Reminds me of old commercial "When EM-Hutton talks, people listen"

 

[KENDOG689]

EF Hutton.

 

[Deja_Vu]

You couldn't give me a damn Tesla... or any other Plug-in for that matter.

 

[Racey]

It’s the federal tax credit you mention. There may also be local credits and rebates but they vary.

It wouldn’t be unprecedented if the Saudis bought a stake.

A consortium of Kuwaiti and other middle easterners owns Aston Martin, for example.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I believe Bahraini's now own McLaren Technology Group as well.

There are some in the middle east that realize that oil consumption will start to shrink drastically in the future, and if they don't diversify their holdings they will go belly up.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

The base car costs 49k. The 36k price includes a 7500 federal tax savings, a 2500 CA EV Rebate and a 5 year gas savings estimate of 3600. Out the door your paying 46,500 and you will get a $7500 tax credit in April that does not affect your monthly payment of $822 a month with 5k down. How is a $800 car payment affordable electric powered motoring for the masses?

Their top end cars are bad ass, the tech that they are putting into them is cutting edge. I would have loved to have built a board around that chipset that they are using when I was in the PCB world.

I am starting to choke on the snake oil that is coming out of the green energy companies.

 

[Racey]

The base car costs 49k. The 36k price includes a 7500 federal tax savings, a 2500 CA EV Rebate and a 5 year gas savings estimate of 3600. Out the door your paying 46,500 and you will get a $7500 tax credit in April that does not affect your monthly payment of $822 a month with 5k down. How is a $800 car payment affordable electric powered motoring for the masses?

Their top end cars are bad ass, the tech that they are putting into them is cutting edge. I would have loved to have built a board around that chipset that they are using when I was in the PCB world.

I am starting to choke on the snake oil that is coming out of the green energy companies.

Early adopters always pay the premium price. You were from the PCB world, so remember the days when an intel 386 PC cost about $3k back in the late 80s early 90s? People back then said the same things "How are these for the masses?"....

We are still in the infancy of EV's. Let the tree huggers and feel gooders pay the premium so that in 10 years we'll all be able to buy them at 1/2 the cost in real terms they are today. Electric vehicles are going to be insanely cheaper to produce in the long run because they have so many less moving parts and tolerance issues from the manufacturing side.

 

[Uncle Dave]

You couldn't give me a damn Tesla... or any other Plug-in for that matter.

I think Adam Corolla (the radio personality not the Top gear guy) said it best after a day in a model S

" Get an F350 and one of these and you are done"
(Chevy guys insert Dmax)




IF I didn't need two trucks Id have a (somebodies long range) electric as one of 2 vehicles in a heartbeat. These things are going to get better and cheaper pretty rapidly.

With a 300 mile range and the ability to fill up at home every night so I start with a "full tank" every morning without going anywhere is huge.

Add up 3-5 years of trips to the gas station for city driving and forget about the money, look at the time you get back.
For me I fill each car once a week and it takes about 15-20 min if it's on a route - more if its a separate trip to " fill up before a trip". Sometines I pay cash and have to make 2 trips inside - I try to be thrifty when its meaningful but not ridiculous about it.

f-all the notion of green, forget about who makes the thing - you buy yourself back a lot of time by filling at home vs separate destinations.

One regular car/truck/suv for long range and towing duty call that 20% of my driving this runs on dino and I have no station at home.

One sedan/SUV for 80% of my driving this runs on juice goes 300 a stretch, and I fill up at home and start every day with a full tank.


UD

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Early adopters always pay the premium price. You were from the PCB world, so remember the days when an intel 386 PC cost about $3k back in the late 80s early 90s? People back then said the same things "How are these for the masses?"....

We are still in the infancy of EV's. Let the tree huggers and feel gooders pay the premium so that in 10 years we'll all be able to buy them at 1/2 the cost in real terms they are today. Electric vehicles are going to be insanely cheaper to produce in the long run because they have so many less moving parts and tolerance issues from the manufacturing side.

Completely agree. Especially as battery tech and board and chipsets continue to advance there is going to be some really cool stuff on the horizon. I just hate the marketing machines.

 

[KENDOG689]

I think Adam Corolla (the radio personality not the Top gear guy) said it best after a day in a model S

" Get an F350 and one of these and you are done"





IF I didn't need two trucks Id have a (somebodies long range) electric as one of 2 vehicles in a heartbeat.

With a 300 mile range and the ability to fill up at home every night so I start with a "full tank" every morning without going anywhere is huge.

Add up 3-5 years of trips to the gas station for city driving and forget about the money, look at the time you get back.
For me I fill each car once a week and it takes about 15-20 min if it's on a route - more if its a separate trip to " fill up before a trip".

f-all the notion of green, forget about who makes the thing - you buy yourself back a lot of time by filling at home vs separate destinations.

One regular car/truck/suv for long range and towing duty call that 20% of my driving this runs on dino and I have no station at home.

One sedan/SUV for 80% of my driving this runs on juice goes 300 a stretch, and I start every day with a full tank.


UD

Sounds good till you add up the #s.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Sounds good till you add up the #s.

Which numbers?

 

[KENDOG689]

Which numbers?

$46k for a car....Electric bill goes up and I read insurance is a bit higher.

 

[Uncle Dave]

$46k for a car....Electric bill goes up and I read insurance is a bit higher.

Yeah that's premium sedan money - not Altima money. It's also premium sedan performance.

Most of my friends are driving 40-80K trucks and 40-60K cars.

Sure electric bill goes up - but there is still realized dollar savings over gasoline.

What is your own time worth to you for convenience?

The older I get the more I value time.

UD

 

[KENDOG689]

Yeah that's premium sedan money - not Altima money. It's also premium sedan performance.

Most of my friends are driving 40-80K trucks and 40-60K cars.

Sure electric bill goes up - but there is still realized dollar savings over gasoline.

What is your own time worth to you for convenience?

The older I get the more I value time.

UD

Do you have a quote on the electric bill for a month?

 

[Uncle Dave]

Do you have a quote on the electric bill for a month?

Do you have a months gas bill?

Whats your time worth? - you havent answered that.

Can you offset that with a roof full of panels? (no)

Like anything it varies.

The closest efficiency standard that compares the two its typically MPGE - or electric miles per gallon.

EPA based - EMPG clocks in much higher than Gasoline MPG in every case.
They usually look like this Pretty sure this is a volts.

UD

 

[pronstar]

For my EV clown car, assuming:
Drive 90 miles/day
Use a full 20 kWh/day
30 days/month
$0.08/kWh electricity rate in Dallas

That would be $48 in electricity to drive 2,700 miles every month.
YMMV [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[MSum661]

For my EV clown car, assuming:
Drive 90 miles/day
Use a full 20 kWh/day
30 days/month
$0.08/kWh electricity rate in Dallas

That would be $48 in electricity to drive 2,700 miles every month.
YMMV [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Do you use a 220 volt or 110v outlet to charge it?
Does one source cost more than the other on the electric bill? Or is it about the same?
Just curious.

 

[KENDOG689]

For my EV clown car, assuming:
Drive 90 miles/day
Use a full 20 kWh/day
30 days/month
$0.08/kWh electricity rate in Dallas

That would be $48 in electricity to drive 2,700 miles every month.
YMMV [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

What car do you own?I would like to see the #s across the board.

 

[Uncle Dave]

If one drove 280 miles every day how many gas stops would that be per week in one's normal car

Very few cars could cover that longer than 2 full days on one tank in city driving

That rate sustained has you visiting the gas station 14 times per month at 15 min per which is doable

Lets for argument's sake say the money is equal - the time dedicated to the task of fueling is not.

Thats 210 minutes (3.5 hours) spent fueling vs spending that extra time on my boat or driving the skin boat to tuna town, taking the log to the beaver - or if Im in the doghouse for spending money on go fast toy just adjusting my extraneous digit.

Within range - you make ZERO trips anywhere but home for fuel with the EV. The range is pretty big these days.

My wife plugs a dog grooming van in every night - takes exactly 30 seconds.


UD

 

[pronstar]

What car do you own?I would like to see the #s across the board.

Fiat 500e 36-month lease
$0 down, $99/month

These have been selling off-lease at auction for $4k-$7k.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[KENDOG689]

Do you have a months gas bill?

Whats your time worth? - you havent answered that.

Can you offset that with a roof full of panels? (no)

Like anything it varies.

The closest efficiency standard that compares the two its typically MPGE - or electric miles per gallon.

EPA based - EMPG clocks in much higher than Gasoline MPG in every case.
They usually look like this Pretty sure this is a volts.

UD

View attachment 672206

If it takes you 5mins to gas up,is that really time?

 

[KENDOG689]

Fiat 500e 36-month lease
$0 down, $99/month

These have been selling off-lease at auction for $4k-$7k.

View attachment 672242


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Gas car?

 

[Uncle Dave]

If it takes you 5mins to gas up,is that really time?

Lets say you can do it in 5 minutes (seriously doubtful if that can be sustained)

If you have to make a dedicated to trip from your house to the station in back to do it 5 mi? Seriously doubtful.

the 5 minutes still adds up to 70 minutes a month. Then add that up for a year thats 840 minutes 14 hours.

Is that really time?

I cant tell anyone what time means to them, but I know what that time means to me.

UD

 

[hallett21]

Pronstar..Does it take 15 minutes to get a simple answer from you?
Or is this another one of those Fuck you's?

120 or 240 costs the same on the bill. They are measuring watts on your bill. 240 will charge faster


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MSum661]

120 or 240 costs the same on the bill. They are measuring watts on your bill. 240 will charge faster


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks.
I'm was trying to compare his EV costs to a 110v outdoor spa which burns up power trying to heat the water as opposed to 240v spa which uses less time to heat the same amount of water.
Just trying to understand actual cost to operate per month.

 

[SBMech]

Early adopters always pay the premium price. You were from the PCB world, so remember the days when an intel 386 PC cost about $3k back in the late 80s early 90s? People back then said the same things "How are these for the masses?"....

We are still in the infancy of EV's. Let the tree huggers and feel gooders pay the premium so that in 10 years we'll all be able to buy them at 1/2 the cost in real terms they are today. Electric vehicles are going to be insanely cheaper to produce in the long run because they have so many less moving parts and tolerance issues from the manufacturing side.

When the world goes to shit, I can still bump start my old hotrod, no electronics needed.....I always have the points distributor in the trunk lol.

EMP or Solar Flare nightmare for the world in EV's, and all the electronic warriors.

I guess I am just lucky to be born in an era where I got to experience it all, the birth of the internet (good or bad lol) hot rodding in it's waning years, and unregulated access to national parks, lakes, rivers with no fees growing up. Every family had extra vehicles, boats, rv's and campers, and were actually friendly to each other.

This new direction the "tech" generation is going down lacks style, class and resourcefulness. How many of you ever actually call AAA to change a tire?

Considering that they are so new, with so little actual world testing, it's going to be interesting to see how EV's hold up as far as longevity.

Remember, they are less than .7% of the national fleet at the moment, not exactly a lot of time to really judge anything on.

The real world is much harsher than engineers and testers can ever plan for, I have experienced it thousands of times.