Stoker vs Schiada

[CampbellCarl]

Handle sets the plates. Pedal pushes them down and a spring returns them to the set position. It can also work in the opposite on some boats although I've never had any experience with them working that way. Pushing up with the pedal.

Umm, no. They all use a down pedal (over-riding the previously set lockout handle) and some use an up pedal (in addition to the down pedal) for use when the water friction on the plates begins to suck down the cav plate. Most compensate with stiffer cav plate (up) springs and that action then begat the hydraulic assist and then the air assist (down) as the return springs are SO stiff that the driver can't finish a 10 or 20 lap main event without some assistance on the down.

BH

 

[Outdrive1]

Umm, no. They all use a down pedal (over-riding the previously set lockout handle) and some use an up pedal (in addition to the down pedal) for use when the water friction on the plates begins to suck down the cav plate. Most compensate with stiffer cav plate (up) springs and that action then begat the hydraulic assist and then the air assist (down) as the return springs are SO stiff that the driver can't finish a 10 or 20 lap main event without some assistance on the down.

BH

I've never driven a boat with an up and a down pedal. So I don't know. I've just heard some have an up pedal.

 

[Tommy Gun Images]

So RD is racing a K boat and Tyro is really white? Damn it must be winter time

 

[CampbellCarl]

I've never driven a boat with an up and a down pedal. So I don't know. I've just heard some have an up pedal.

I'd guess the up/down combination pedal(s) were 80's maybe 70's technology. Many with both sawed off the up after mistakenly pushing the up but wanting the down with bad results. You can guess that in the heat of the moment one doesn't have time to look or 'feel' around for the correct pedal. The combo units used smaller pedals with perhaps 2 inches of seperation between them...

An "Oh shit" moment doesn't allow time for decision...just action.

 

[RiverDave]

So RD is racing a K boat and Tyro is really white? Damn it must be winter time

And Carl just kinda laid out my down pedal article I wrote.. Lol

 

[Paul65k]

I'd guess the up/down combination pedal(s) were 80's maybe 70's technology. Many with both sawed off the up after mistakenly pushing the up but wanting the down with bad results. You can guess that in the heat of the moment one doesn't have time to look or 'feel' around for the correct pedal. The combo units used smaller pedals with perhaps 2 inches of seperation between them...

An "Oh shit" moment doesn't allow time for decision...just action.

It is official........Carl knows more about doing that "Up and Down thing" in a boat than any other inmate :yikes

 

[CampbellCarl]

And Carl just kinda laid out my down pedal article I wrote.. Lol

You're the HNIC around here...just delete them...

 

[88vector]

Got it[emoji106]


Ok, back to the dick measuring contest:skull

I believe it's refered to as a "cock off."

 

[530RL]

Would now be the time to say that SleekCraft's with a small block can tow a skier of any size, especially if a bet is on the line?

 

[AzGeo]

The term back then was "cover the down", and guys who are drivers know what this means . If you have not 'been there', you have no need to chime in with comments .

 

[CampbellCarl]

The term back then was "cover the down", and guys who are drivers know what this means . If you have not 'been there', you have no need to chime in with comments .

George, Who first designed a combination up/down assembly and when?

 

[boater250s]

They would have to leave the trailer or shop and we all know. That ait gonna happen.

That's funny !!

 

[steveo143]

George, Who first designed a combination up/down assembly and when?

I think it was Ray Caselli.

 

[t&y]

The term back then was "cover the down", and guys who are drivers know what this means . If you have not 'been there', you have no need to chime in with comments .

Correct me if I'm wrong... I've never driven a boat with that set up... but would it be something similar to controlling an ailerons on a airplane wing? Minor adjustments to keep the ride/nose at the right height?

 

[RiverDave]

Correct me if I'm wrong... I've never driven a boat with that set up... but would it be something similar to controlling an ailerons on a airplane wing? Minor adjustments to keep the ride/nose at the right height?

By bending the running surface of the boat, minor movement makes major differences. They are a lot more efficient then trim tabs in that regard. You can find Cav Plates on Big Boats as well, but they aren't super common.

Big Boat Cav Plates..

http://www.arneson-industries.com/page.php?type=products&id=rocker

 

[Sharp Shooter]

By bending the running surface of the boat, minor movement makes major differences. They are a lot more efficient then trim tabs in that regard. You can find Cav Plates on Big Boats as well, but they aren't super common.

Big Boat Cav Plates..

http://www.arneson-industries.com/page.php?type=products&id=rocker

That's a good point Dave. We spend a lot of time blueprinting the bottom of our boats. The plates are a continuation of the bottom of the boat, but at speed above 90 or so (depends on your spring pressure) the plates start to vibrate and move. So essentially your perfectly blueprinted bottom is moving around and inconsistent at that point. :thumbsdown An up pedal can stabilize this, but what if you need to get back on the down for a moment? The fix is stretching the springs more, and or larger springs for more pressure which creates another problem- muscle fatigue on the left leg. I've also heard of guys having their feet get stuck between the up pedal and the dash. Possibly another justification for cutting it off.

All of this led to the development of an air assist. If you peek into Dave Rankin or Mike Stocks K boats they have full hydraulics. I've seen some boats going back to the 60's with what looked like home fabbed hydos using automotive master cylinders and I've seen some cruisers using them too. Seems like some of the bigger cruisers especially those with stainless plates would definitely need hydraulics or electrics, you probably know more about that than I do. Some say the lack in pedal feedback isn't good.

So how far jacked can we get this thread from Stokers and Schiada's?

 

[copterzach]

So it looks like no boats will actually be getting wet in this legendary "cock off?"

 

[t&y]

So how far jacked can we get this thread from Stokers and Schiada's?

Well let's see. I had a little conversation with Dave over the phone yesterday and I am not making any of this shit up! He told me he was trading his Shciada for some bitchen Bayliner Jet Boat conversion he and HolyMoly found on Craigslist. Said something about a custom built AMC 304 with over the transom exhaust (no mufflers) and a big tube Wakeboard tower with 15 speakers that was going silence all the Haters.

Ding ding ding.....:skull

 

[Riverbound]

So it looks like no boats will actually be getting wet in this legendary "cock off?"

nope. they never do. have you ever been to foxes when all these hug horsepower machines are tied up......the owners consume more fuel than the boats do :drink:drink:drink

 

[RiverDave]

That's a good point Dave. We spend a lot of time blueprinting the bottom of our boats. The plates are a continuation of the bottom of the boat, but at speed above 90 or so (depends on your spring pressure) the plates start to vibrate and move. So essentially your perfectly blueprinted bottom is moving around and inconsistent at that point. :thumbsdown An up pedal can stabilize this, but what if you need to get back on the down for a moment? The fix is stretching the springs more, and or larger springs for more pressure which creates another problem- muscle fatigue on the left leg. I've also heard of guys having their feet get stuck between the up pedal and the dash. Possibly another justification for cutting it off.

All of this led to the development of an air assist. If you peek into Dave Rankin or Mike Stocks K boats they have full hydraulics. I've seen some boats going back to the 60's with what looked like home fabbed hydos using automotive master cylinders and I've seen some cruisers using them too. Seems like some of the bigger cruisers especially those with stainless plates would definitely need hydraulics or electrics, you probably know more about that than I do. Some say the lack in pedal feedback isn't good.

So how far jacked can we get this thread from Stokers and Schiada's?

Grier Rush designed a manual system to combat the muscle fatigue. He Mounted a large swinging pedal off the deck so it works like a clutch pedal. This would allow you to use the larger muscles in your legs instead of your calf muscles. You can read all about it here in the Article about the Rush.

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/newsletter.php

RD

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Grier Rush designed a manual system to combat the muscle fatigue. He Mounted a large swinging pedal off the deck so it works like a clutch pedal. This would allow you to use the larger muscles in your legs instead of your calf muscles. You can read all about it here in the Article about the Rush.

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/newsletter.php

RD

Yeah, I saw that on Hobans boat like twenty something years ago. Nobody's using calf muscle to push a down or their springs are waay too soft in the first place. I'm not sure how a dash mount is an advantage or not, but it hasn't been adapted to other boats...It sure wouldn't work on a light lay up hull without building a supported frame or something.

I'll read your article here in a minute.:thumbup:

 

[rivermobster]

Grier Rush designed a manual system to combat the muscle fatigue. He Mounted a large swinging pedal off the deck so it works like a clutch pedal. This would allow you to use the larger muscles in your legs instead of your calf muscles. You can read all about it here in the Article about the Rush.

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/newsletter.php

RD

No racer is gonna add that much weight to their boat. I always put my heel at the top of the down pedal to work it. It does take a whole lot of effort! Interesting idea though. Good think'n out side the box. :thumbup:

Newsletter looks great!!! But please tell me that that pig is photochoped in!!!!!!! lol

 

[Uncle Dave]

So it looks like no boats will actually be getting wet in this legendary "cock off?"

Yeah with all this mouth music for so long I can't believe at least some of these races didn't already happen.

Buncha punks (except for maybe alexi ) - all so afraid to loose - they don't really go and run em.

What I learned boating half my life in the midwest is that - in this group the "loser" is still probably close to if not the fastest boat at any given time on almost every other lake in the US.




UD

 

[SFV2RVR]

nope. they never do. have you ever been to foxes when all these hug horsepower machines are tied up......the owners consume more fuel than the boats do :drink:drink:drink

Damn straight. Someone's gotta show up to the bar in style! If everyone showed up in a Hyundai what would everyone look at?! [emoji6]

 

[Riverbound]

Damn straight. Someone's gotta show up to the bar in style! If everyone showed up in a Hyundai what would everyone look at?! [emoji6]

The fast boats (stokers) making passes in front of the bar.

 

[SFV2RVR]

The fast boats (stokers) making passes in front of the bar.

I've never seen it. Most of the entertainment is the jet boats making a lot of noise and going nowhere!

 

[Sharp Shooter]

I read the article Dave. That's a sweet boat! I got to see it at Red Rock in 2003 for a few days of our V-Drive "vacation". The owner lives (or lived) next to or across from one of my riding buddies. I've always wondered why the guy doesn't show it off more, but seeing it here is cool. :cool

 

[twocents]

Getting back to the cav plate discussion for a minute, the slickest hydraulic set-up I ever saw was the one that Denis Porter built a few years back. You can check out the story with photos at http://classiccustomboats.com/pedal-power/ Unfortunately Denis is no longer with us -- just wonder if anybody picked up on his technology and is manufacturing something like it?

 

[steveo143]

I have one of Denis's systems in my 19' Schiada GN. Denis had a partner, Paul Barber who lives in Canada, that was making the production run of the system and they are still available from Paul.

 

[Backlash]

Steveo143, Can you post some pics??

 

[Racey]

I have one of Denis's systems in my 19' Schiada GN. Denis had a partner, Paul Barber who lives in Canada, that was making the production run of the system and they are still available from Paul.

Those systems really are badass, Very simple, fool-proof, safe. :thumbup: It's like going from cable steering to hydraulic.

 

[steveo143]

Steveo143, Can you post some pics??

I don't have any current pics but if you go over to www.performanceboats.com and do a search for 'Denis Porter' on page 2 there is a build thread by Paul with lots of pics. Many other threads also about the system and one by the one and only Tony Scarlota about the system in the K-69.

 

[BigSteve]

I don't have any current pics but if you go over to www.performanceboats.com and do a search for 'Denis Porter' on page 2 there is a build thread by Paul with lots of pics. Many other threads also about the system and one by the one and only Tony Scarlata about the system in the K-69.

There a couple very nice K boats set up with them
We were at the Kilo's last year with the K 69
One of the other K boats teams had a excellent set up

 

[Sharp Shooter]

There a couple very nice K boats set up with them
We were at the Kilo's last year with the K 69
One of the other K boats teams had a excellent set up

K-24 is in the process of going hydraulic as well. We may see more to follow.

 

[Sbarry]

Cavitation plate technology is cool and all, but let's not change the subject!! We almost had a race lined up and the thread really took a turn!! WTH! Haha

 

[Enen]

Cavitation plate technology is cool and all, but let's not change the subject!! We almost had a race lined up and the thread really took a turn!! WTH! Haha

We had a Schiada committed. Not sure what happened to the Stoker.

 

[Sbarry]

Paul65k 's Schiada and Dezetriders Stoker would be the perfect race. 21RT and a 22 Stoker both with Merc 300's

Was Paul the only commitment?

 

[Wheeler]

here we go lol

Spring is coming up soon. Get your boat out!

 

[DLow]

 

[stokerwhore]

Spring is coming up soon. Get your boat out!

geez i just put it away, lol

 

[rivermobster]

Spring is coming up soon. Get your boat out!

Really???

 

[Wheeler]

Really???

As always your contribution is ...

 

[rivermobster]

As always your contribution is ... View attachment 1204516

You know it!

 

[Bobby_329]

Just read this whole thing pretty much about my stoker before i had it. Little different now.

 

[Wheeler]

Just read this whole thing pretty much about my stoker before i had it. Little different now. View attachment 1204573

We're gonna need more photos!

 

[RiverDave]

Just read this whole thing pretty much about my stoker before i had it. Little different now. View attachment 1204573

Is that in a stoker??

 

[Wheeler]

 

[Riverbound]

Is that in a stoker??

Yes, that’s marks old boat. quad rotor is gone now it’s TT.

 

[Wheeler]

This thing is Obnoxious!

 

[RiverDave]

Yes, that’s marks old boat. quad rotor is gone now it’s TT.

Damn! Looks good!