Speed UTV take 3

[Go-Fly]

The reason we don't manufacture products in the US is because we have lost the skill to design, build and manage an assembly line. There are still some hot spots but, most of the skill level is focused on management. We can e-mail, have meetings, collect data and make presentations like no other country. When it gets down to nuts and bolts there is no one really in charge and those that are, have no say in what needs to be done. There's no computer program that will tell you what to do. It take people with insight and experience and we have lost that. I've been on both sides of the problem where you struggle to pull all the elements together to get a product out the door. It can be the best idea and you have people lining up to buy it but, you can't get it up and running. This is a fade product that is fade driven and has a very short life span for payback of investment. Hell, the best shock in the whole world this month can be the biggest piece of shit next month. By the time they get to market, the parts they are using will be last years obsoletes.

 

[Orange Juice]

The reason we don't manufacture products in the US is because we have lost the skill to design, build and manage an assembly line. There are still some hot spots but, most of the skill level is focused on management. We can e-mail, have meetings, collect data and make presentations like no other country. When it gets down to nuts and bolts there is no one really in charge and those that are, have no say in what needs to be done. There's no computer program that will tell you what to do. It take people with insight and experience and we have lost that. I've been on both sides of the problem where you struggle to pull all the elements together to get a product out the door. It can be the best idea and you have people lining up to buy it but, you can't get it up and running. This is a fade product that is fade driven and has a very short life span for payback of investment. Hell, the best shock in the whole world this month can be the biggest piece of shit next month. By the time they get to market, the parts they are using will be last years obsoletes.

If RG can organize class racing for his speed cars, I can see 5-8 years of interest. (If you’re not racing, you’re not selling). I think many of the deposits, are from potential race teams. If that’s the case, I could see RD’s point, that the early #’s might have some extra value.

But Speeds hurdle is getting 5000+ out the door over a 6 month period. And have enough parts to support those roll-overs, and warranty issues.

I’d be pissed if I took possession of a new UTV, and had an issue that took more than 2-8 weeks to resolve. So customer service has to be ready.

 

[Sand Shark]

20k!?!?!?

I may go back to my paraimd scheme theory.

And yes, I understand the theory of the faithful...

Whatever you paid, it will be worth more by the time it's out.

But I also understand all too well the theory of, you never buy the first year model release of ANYTHING.

And then I have said from the beginning, by the time this thing Does show up, the technology will be dinosaur.

I really do wish you guys luck.

I don’t think Speeds technology was ever revolutionary, but it was just proper. I don’t see it being a dinosaur, as Speed has lots of patents to keep others from doing it. Both Polaris & Can Am have never built suspension or chassis with the idea of correct geometry. It’s been more about big wheel travel, bigger HP and Polaris likes to add all the electronic bells & whistles. Besides the dash, and high tech ECU. The Speed is basic in electronics.

 

[Sand Shark]

If RG can organize class racing for his speed cars, I can see 5-8 years of interest. (If you’re not racing, you’re not selling). I think many of the deposits, are from potential race teams. If that’s the case, I could see RD’s point, that the early #’s might have some extra value.

But Speeds hurdle is getting 5000+ out the door over a 6 month period. And have enough parts to support those roll-overs, and warranty issues.

I’d be pissed if I took possession of a new UTV, and had an issue that took more than 2-8 weeks to resolve. So customer service has to be ready.

Most cars ordered were 4 seaters, so I don’t think many cars ordered are planned to be raced. If you’d be pissed to buy a UTV and have issues that take months to fix. Then don’t buy a Polaris. A friend bought a new XP Pro in October. It’s only been out twice and he got his Stop Ride recall notice for the fuel line/o ring etc.. failure. He called the dealer and was told he was around car 100 on their list, and there was still no ETA on a fix or when parts would be available. If he abides by the Recall he will not be driving his new car for months.

 

[RiverDave]

I always thought your site was about boating and like minds and of course normal day to day BS. Not so much custom or who had the most money.
If the entire purpose of this forum is for the elite or overkill type why not have an income box to when you sign up. Or try to.
I’ve loved this site for for almost 16 years. But your comment in jest or not might make me rethink that.

It’s about custom everything was the intent of the site. doesn’t have to be overboard baller. Just making things your own and different..

I was talking to these kids at a hotel in Carlsbad the other day. Most on here wouldn’t like what this kid did to his car.. I thought it was cool he went out of his way to make it his own.

The skirts on the side are actually house siding he formed to the car.

By the way if you are that sensitive to a joke….

 

[BIGRED9158]

It’s about custom everything was the intent of the site. doesn’t have to be overboard baller. Just making things your own and different..

I was talking to these kids at a hotel in Carlsbad the other day. Most on here wouldn’t like what this kid did to his car.. I thought it was cool he went out of his way to make it his own.

The skirts on the side are actually house siding he formed to the car.

By the way if you are that sensitive to a joke….
View attachment 1183919 View attachment 1183920 View attachment 1183921

Looks like a car vin would drive

 

[Sand Shark]

Did Henry ford take deposit asking for a friend lol

Tell your friend to look it up! Henry Ford did not take deposits, probably not a thing back then. But Henry Ford took on lots of investors and stockholders, and the first two attempts to start the company failed and those investors got screwed. The 3rd time was the charm, and he had investors to help fund that start up company too. Btw one of his failed attempts became Cadillac.

 

[rivermobster]

I don’t think Speeds technology was ever revolutionary, but it was just proper. I don’t see it being a dinosaur, as Speed has lots of patents to keep others from doing it. Both Polaris & Can Am have never built suspension or chassis with the idea of correct geometry. It’s been more about big wheel travel, bigger HP and Polaris likes to add all the electronic bells & whistles. Besides the dash, and high tech ECU. The Speed is basic in electronics.

Although it probably sounded that way, I wasn't even referring to the electronics.

Everyday someone comes out with a better mousetrap. New and different ways of doing the same old thing. Suspension technology is not immune.

I'm SURE when he came up with his ideas, they Were things that no one else was doing.

Today? Years later and with it all being put on display??

What he has effectively done is raise the bar for all the other manufacturers and showed them how to do it!

They have the R&D dollars to do anything they want. They also have to keep costs down to keep their profits up. AND they can do all this on the fly.

In the Automotive world (that I spent almost my whole life in) it's roughly 7 to 10 years from paper to the showroom. Depends on the manufacturer, who all have unlimited funds.

Just food for thought. I wish all you guys with orders good luck.

 

[RiverDave]

That's why I’m shocked that they don't offer refunds should one request it. Transfer a non or low profit sale to one with full mark up. Then again, they probably don’t have the money to be able to do that.

How do you figure that?

 

[rivermobster]

How do you figure that?

You guys with orders all bought in for Way less total cost than what he SAYS they will go for after they are in production.

Correct? Or?

 

[Sand Shark]

I’m guessing Robby only showed them what he’s got after he had his patents in place. He has mentioned this before. I’m guessing Polaris’s shock fork was their attempt to get around one of his patents, and it’s already proven to have its flaws. Polaris also looks to have Camber issues from what Shock Therapy was showing. Hoping Can Am has something better coming.

 

[Heylam]

How do you figure that?

Because if the initial sales of cars were sold at a lower price point then cars are selling for now and there's people waiting to buy cars at the higher price point why not offer the lower price point customers out of their contracts?

 

[RiverDave]

@rivermobster the cars have gone up approximately 11k and accessories went up 20%.

While I’m sure some of that price increase is due to manufacturing costs going up.. I don’t know what % of that is also being driven by overwhelming demand.

It’s kind of impossible to predict what financial shape they are in, when we don’t even know the basics of the equation.

We don’t know how much they have in the bank.
We don’t know who and how much was invested.
We don’t know the actual hard costs of building and delivering a vehicle.
We don’t know how many deposits they have taken vs dealer orders. We don’t know if dealers had to pay for their spots up front.
We don’t know the cost of the accessories or how many they have sold etc..

To even take wild guesses without any information seems a bit irresponsible.

I can only speak for myself but I have three deposits

1500 and 18,000 in accessories paid up front on two of them.. 1500 and I think about 8-9,000 in accessories on a two seater that is way down the line.

For the first two cars I will be into both of them fully loaded for about the price of a stock Pro R ultimate. If I buy the Pro R it needs 20-25k in things to make it what I’d want.

Speed car is about 50k. Pro R is about 70’ish all done. In comparison the can am defender that is pretty done up is about 60k.

I am having a real hard justifying some of the prices on these things.. but it is what it is I guess.

Since we are already rambling.. I will say my biggest concern is buying a RZR or whatever right now and having speed tell me in 30-45 days or some short amount of time “hey your car is here…”. They can’t or won’t give anyone any kind of real time line.

 

[RiverDave]

Because if the initial sales of cars were sold at a lower price point then cars are selling for now and there's people waiting to buy cars at the higher price point why not offer the lower price point customers out of their contracts?

I still don’t understand why this is being talked about. If someone wants out they can sell their spot at cost in a matter of minutes..

Point in fact if they have any kind of low number they can sell it for the new price and make money and still will sell quickly

 

[Fishd00d]

If I buy the Pro R it needs 20-25k in things to make it what I’d want.

Speed car is about 50k. Pro R is about 70’ish all done. In comparison the can am defender that is pretty done up is about 60k.

I am having a real hard justifying some of the prices on these things.. but it is what it is I guess.

Since we are already rambling.. I will say my biggest concern is buying a RZR or whatever right now and having speed tell me in 30-45 days or some short amount of time “hey your car is here…”. They can’t or won’t give anyone any kind of real time line.

What are you figuring you need to do to the Pro R to get it how you want it that will cost 20-25K? I guarantee your Speed cars are not coming in 30-45 days unless RG pulls a special for ya haha.

 

[jetboatperformance]

I have purpously avoided this topic like an open cess pool ..... however could someone give me the Cliffs notes on speed cars , what is it

 

[Fishd00d]

I have purpously avoided this topic like an open cess pool ..... however could someone give me the Cliffs notes on speed cars , what is it

12 on the boat from China, should be delivered next month. No updates on the timeline for anymore at this time.

 

[rivermobster]

@rivermobster the cars have gone up approximately 11k and accessories went up 20%.

This is the only thing I was asking about.

And the answer to @haylam is...

They don't need to offer refunds because they are still lots of people willing to buy deposits Over what the original deposit cost was.

 

[BIGRED9158]

I still don’t understand why this is being talked about. If someone wants out they can sell their spot at cost in a matter of minutes..

Point in fact if they have any kind of low number they can sell it for the new price and make money and still will sell quickly

That is with the information we have right now if the car keeps getting delayed I don’t see these spots selling as quickly as you say they are now

 

[daytona man]

That is with the information we have right now if the car keeps getting delayed I don’t see these spots selling as quickly as you say they are now

If they come out and have a lot of problems even the low number cars will start selling at cost !

 

[Dan Lorenze]

I have purpously avoided this topic like an open cess pool ..... however could someone give me the Cliffs notes on speed cars , what is it

12 are on the way from China. In three years they will be available on Alibaba under the "Hisun" brand.

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

I still don’t understand why this is being talked about. If someone wants out they can sell their spot at cost in a matter of minutes..

Point in fact if they have any kind of low number they can sell it for the new price and make money and still will sell quickly

It's being talked about because it's interesting.
You need to stop reading comments and questions through the LOF filter and see that it's not haters pointing out faults, it's people discussing and questioning something that hasn't been done in this industry before.

Right now early build spots still can command a small profit for the seller but as I've said before, that will go away VERY quickly if production actually starts at any real pace.

 

[RiverDave]

What are you figuring you need to do to the Pro R to get it how you want it that will cost 20-25K? I guarantee your Speed cars are not coming in 30-45 days unless RG pulls a special for ya haha.

When I bought the first two speed cars the price was 32k. It’s 43 now I believe.

For the pro r.. wheels / tires cage / trunk deal / windshield / Simpson seats with heaters / lights / comms / spare tire rack / spare / whips / stereo etc..

It all adds up quick for a pretty basic car.

 

[Tireman]

It was a joke.. lol. But I feel it really did cover all the basis quickly.

This is a website about custom boats and custom anything. Virtually none of it is cheap or basic? Point in fact it’s quite the opposite.

So why give a speech about getting the basics to Just go have fun in the dirt, when the entire purpose of the forum is for people that go overkill on everything and are anything but basic?

Hence the go be poor somewhere else. It hits all the fronts without having to explain them individually. Lol

RD

But then you had to explain individually
Lol

 

[rivermobster]

When I bought the first two speed cars the price was 32k. It’s 43 now I believe.

For the pro r.. wheels / tires cage / trunk deal / windshield / Simpson seats with heaters / lights / comms / spare tire rack / spare / whips / stereo etc..

It all adds up quick for a pretty basic car.

You Know a jeep would have all that stuff stock yeah? Well, maybe not the whip...

 

[BIGRED9158]

You Know a jeep would have all that stuff stock yeah? Well, maybe not the whip...

How dare you post that don’t you know jeeps are for the poor jk

 

[River Runnin]

Made in China??

 

[Nanu/Nanu]

Oh my! Some of us have been asking legitimate questions about this startup since early on. We were branded "haters" by the investors.

I recall a recent post where someone said a guy paid for his car(s?) in full. If true that guy has too much money. Oh wait, this is the Ballerz Forum where everyone's toys are over-the-top and paid for in cash

It may have been me, i unintentionally may have left my post open ended.


It was in the thread about top speed postings in for sale ads

this here. Ive never arrived to look at a boat without full asking price cash in hand. If we launch into the water at that point im buying the boat as long as the motor holds up.

i didn't mean that as in i always pay full asking. I just dont show up without full asking price. I only negotiate prices in person and if i want it bad enough i will pay full asking price.

dont want to be "that guy" they are now talking about in the fresh thread about buyers negotiating prices after agreeing to a set price.

i also didn't mean that as in i got the baddest coolest shit the world has ever seen. Haha couldn't be further from the truth. My boat is 94 eliminator eagle open bow in nice shape but old. Just like my toy hauler and quads for the dunes theyre all very well used but taken good care of. Yes my toys are paid for but to each his own. Ive just thankful to have been blessed by the good lord with a body strong enough to take the abuse of working hard to afford my toys. At the end of the day everyone here puts our pants on the same way.

Sorry if i came across like my shit don't stink. I really don't like those kind of people but i could totally see how it could have been perceived.

 

[Heylam]

This is the only thing I was asking about.

And the answer to @haylam is...

They don't need to offer refunds because they are still lots of people willing to buy deposits Over what the original deposit cost was.

But then the original purchaser is making the money, but Speed is still selling a car for less then the current market price they set for the purchase of a car today.
I fully understand a purchaser can sell their spot on the open market, but it just shocks me if Speed has any money that they wouldn’t substitute a discounted selling price by them for a full priced sale at todays pricing.

 

[rivermobster]

But then the original purchaser is making the money, but Speed is still selling a car for less then the current market price they set for the purchase of a car today.
I fully understand a purchaser can sell their spot on the open market, but it just shocks me if Speed has any money that they wouldn’t substitute a discounted selling price by them for a full priced sale at todays pricing.

Totally agree.

It funds the fantasy though.

 

[daytona man]

When I bought the first two speed cars the price was 32k. It’s 43 now I believe.

For the pro r.. wheels / tires cage / trunk deal / windshield / Simpson seats with heaters / lights / comms / spare tire rack / spare / whips / stereo etc..

It all adds up quick for a pretty basic car.

Was it 32K with all the parts listed above or was it 32k plus accessories ?? I know someone who purchase on and from what I have been told he paid 32K plus 18K in accessories !

 

[WhatExit?]

You Know a jeep would have all that stuff stock yeah? Well, maybe not the whip...

But Jeeps are made in the USA while Speed cars are made…nowhere?

 

[Sand Shark]

What are you figuring you need to do to the Pro R to get it how you want it that will cost 20-25K? I guarantee your Speed cars are not coming in 30-45 days unless RG pulls a special for ya haha.

Due to your industry connections, you probably got a special price on all your upgrades, and probably on the car too. But if you had to pay retail price for all the upgrades you have made to your Pro R. How much do you think you would have spent? I know I’ve spent e significant amount upgrading on the Can Am, but it’s great now.

 

[RiverDave]

You Know a jeep would have all that stuff stock yeah? Well, maybe not the whip...

If I bought a gladiator the build would be north of 40k in aftermarket shit... and I’d still be afraid to scratch it.

 

[RiverDave]

You Know a jeep would have all that stuff stock yeah? Well, maybe not the whip...

If I bought a gladiator the build would be north of 40k in aftermarket shit... and I’d still be afraid to scratch it.

 

[RiverDave]

Was it 32K with all the parts listed above or was it 32k plus accessories ?? I know someone who purchase on and from what I have been told he paid 32K plus 18K in accessories !

See post 215. The speed all done will be 15-20k cheaper than a pro r..

32 + 18 in accessories.

 

[RiverDave]

It's being talked about because it's interesting.
You need to stop reading comments and questions through the LOF filter and see that it's not haters pointing out faults, it's people discussing and questioning something that hasn't been done in this industry before.

Right now early build spots still can command a small profit for the seller but as I've said before, that will go away VERY quickly if production actually starts at any real pace.

I don’t read it has haters etc.. but I do clue into the words that are used..

For example you say early build slots can command a “small” profit margin.

Realistically I paid 1500.00 ea for two spots.. that car now sells for 11,000.00 more than it did when I bought.

Realistically I could sell both my spots, and laid out 3k to make 22k (minimum) without even adding a bonus for the earlier numbers.

Is that what you call small profit margin?
Now I decided to add 18k in accessories to build them how I’d build them.. but realistically the spots are the spots.. and those are the numbers right now.

Even if you add the accessories in and call it 39k for those two, to turn around and make 22-26k? Not bad

 

[hallett21]

I don’t read it has haters etc.. but I do clue into the words that are used..

For example you say early build slots can command a “small” profit margin.

Realistically I paid 1500.00 ea for two spots.. that car now sells for 11,000.00 more than it did when I bought.

Realistically I could sell both my spots, and laid out 3k to make 22k (minimum) without even adding a bonus for the earlier numbers.

Is that what you call small profit margin?
Now I decided to add 18k in accessories to build them how I’d build them.. but realistically the spots are the spots.. and those are the numbers right now.

Even if you add the accessories in and call it 39k for those two, to turn around and make 22-26k? Not bad

Anything less than 100x is chump change sir

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

I don’t read it has haters etc.. but I do clue into the words that are used..

For example you say early build slots can command a “small” profit margin.

Realistically I paid 1500.00 ea for two spots.. that car now sells for 11,000.00 more than it did when I bought.

Realistically I could sell both my spots, and laid out 3k to make 22k (minimum) without even adding a bonus for the earlier numbers.

Is that what you call small profit margin?
Now I decided to add 18k in accessories to build them how I’d build them.. but realistically the spots are the spots.. and those are the numbers right now.

Even if you add the accessories in and call it 39k for those two, to turn around and make 22-26k? Not bad

You also said you had an offer of $70K but felt you might be able to pull $80K for the first car.
Times change as this process continues and Laguna just sold his for what HE termed a small profit.
I'll take real world results as my measuring stick rather than the hypotheticals that you are quoting.

This has nothing to do with any perceived hate, or love, for Speed UTV.
It's just the facts.

I told you back then, take that $70K and run. It's done nothing but shrink and it will continue as Speed gets going.

 

[HullofaTime]

There will be dealers? Is there a list on the web site? I didn't see one but wonder if they will come to Wichita. They look nice and have huge power according to the site.

This is the only shot of dealers I could find quickly, they used to have an actual dealer map on their website, not sure why it’s not there now other than they have been updating the site. Anyway, looks like there may be some close to Wichita.

 

[RiverDave]

You also said you had an offer of $70K but felt you might be able to pull $80K for the first car.
Times change as this process continues and Laguna just sold his for what HE termed a small profit.
I'll take real world results as my measuring stick rather than the hypotheticals that you are quoting.

This has nothing to do with any perceived hate, or love, for Speed UTV.
It's just the facts.

I told you back then, take that $70K and run. It's done nothing but shrink and it will continue as Speed gets going.

Or gamble and take delivery of the car and put it up for sale and see? I’m taking the gamble

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

Or gamble and take delivery of the car and put it up for sale and see? I’m taking the gamble

At this point you should do exactly that.
Short of a complete and unlikely failure on Speed's part, you'll make a few bucks.

I wonder if 1Carl ever moved any of his build spots. Hopefully he comes out without too much $ damage.
He unfortunately purchased some of his spots at a premium from other sellers.

 

[WhatExit?]

If I bought a gladiator the build would be north of 40k in aftermarket shit... and I’d still be afraid to scratch it.

It can be done (spening "$40,000 in aftermarket shit") but what the hell would you be doing to a Jeep with the $40k?!

I've got all kinds of aftermarket stuff on my Gladiator - Metalcloak lift, 37's + wheels, 4.88 gears, Ultra Vision (made in Australia) lights, and lots more and I'm nowhere near $20,000K over purchase.

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

It can be done (spening "$40,000 in aftermarket shit") but what the hell would you be doing to a Jeep with the $40k?!

I've got all kinds of aftermarket stuff on my Gladiator - Metalcloak lift, 37's + wheels, 4.88 gears, Ultra Vision (made in Australia) lights, and lots more and I'm nowhere near $20,000K over purchase.

View attachment 1183965

View attachment 1183964

That's a good looking Gladiator.

Of course you probably should have just thrown $5 or $10K at a YJ and you too could have 47" of wheel travel like one member posted earlier

Better luck on the next build.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Tell your friend to look it up! Henry Ford did not take deposits, probably not a thing back then. But Henry Ford took on lots of investors and stockholders, and the first two attempts to start the company failed and those investors got screwed. The 3rd time was the charm, and he had investors to help fund that start up company too. Btw one of his failed attempts became Cadillac.

If you can find his book "My Life and Work," I highly recommend it.

 

[Bigbore500r]

This thread without LOF

 

[Boatymcboatface]

This thread without LOF

View attachment 1183976

Seems like Dave is answering all the questions just without the LOF flair?

 

[Havasu blue label]

You also said you had an offer of $70K but felt you might be able to pull $80K for the first car.
Times change as this process continues and Laguna just sold his for what HE termed a small profit.
I'll take real world results as my measuring stick rather than the hypotheticals that you are quoting.

This has nothing to do with any perceived hate, or love, for Speed UTV.
It's just the facts.

I told you back then, take that $70K and run. It's done nothing but shrink and it will continue as Speed gets going.

My Tesla stock is going back to 200 hundred next month

 

[RiverDave]

If you can find his book "My Life and Work," I highly recommend it.

I thought he was most known for his book about Jews.

 

[RiverDave]

At this point you should do exactly that.
Short of a complete and unlikely failure on Speed's part, you'll make a few bucks.

I wonder if 1Carl ever moved any of his build spots. Hopefully he comes out without too much $ damage.
He unfortunately purchased some of his spots at a premium from other sellers.

I think his sales Delivery leaves a little to be desired.