Speed UTV take 3

[SeanRitchie]

I have a request?

I've rebuilt a number of manual transmissions. So I understand how synchros and cluster gears function.

I have never seen the inside of a DTC transmission, and I doubt I'll ever have the opportunity to get My hands inside one.

So the next time you have one apart, id sure like to see what one looks like inside!

Maybe everyone else would like to see as well?

Thanks in advance. If you can find the time.

They are not much mechanically different than a sequential/dog-engagement gearbox. The main difference is the computer controlled shifting and electronically actuated clutch. Can-am had a cut-away trans at their dealer event that someone took a picture of that I examined for a while.

With all of the computer controls for shifting, they make sure there is plenty of logic involved to prevent damage to the gearbox from improper shifting, unlike having a linkage/cable hand shifter that the driver has control of.

 

[rivermobster]

They are not much mechanically different than a sequential/dog-engagement gearbox. The main difference is the computer controlled shifting and electronically actuated clutch. Can-am had a cut-away trans at their dealer event that someone took a picture of that I examined for a while.

With all of the computer controls for shifting, they make sure there is plenty of logic involved to prevent damage to the gearbox from improper shifting, unlike having a linkage/cable hand shifter that the driver has control of.

BMW had a whole separate shifting module for the M3 SMG. They sure were proud of that thing!

It was Definitely a trip to drive.

If you come across that pic, it would be cool if you could post it up.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Racey]

BMW had a whole separate shifting module for the M3 SMG. They sure were proud of that thing!

It was Definitely a trip to drive.

If you come across that pic, it would be cool if you could post it up.

Thanks for the reply.

They are basically 2 separate normal synchro transmission packaged in a single box, odd gears are fed by clutch1 even by clutch 2, the outputs are coupled.

When you are in 1st gear the computer shifts the even side of the trans to 2nd gear, when the gear shift is called to go to 2nd clutch 1 disengages and clutch 2 engages. The output of the odd side is now free wheeling back to the clutch being driven by 2nd gear up to clutch 1 which is open.

If your conditions are accelerating (throttle above a certain amount, rpm above a certain amount and climbing) transmission 1 shifts to 3rd gear, if you are decellerating it shfts back to 1st, when the shift is needed the clutches are swapped.

The whole theory is that a gear shift is slow mechanically, bit a clutch swap can be very short, the gear shif can happen in the opposite transmission while you are accelerating or decelerating which takes a long time compared to the actual shift. This means the transmission is always shifted without a load.

 

[rivermobster]

They are basically 2 separate normal synchro transmission packaged in a single box, odd gears are fed by clutch1 even by clutch 2, the outputs are coupled.

When you are in 1st gear the computer shifts the even side of the trans to 2nd gear, when the gear shift is called to go to 2nd clutch 1 disengages and clutch 2 engages. The output of the odd side is now free wheeling back to the clutch being driven by 2nd gear up to clutch 1 which is open.

If your conditions are accelerating (throttle above a certain amount, rpm above a certain amount and climbing) transmission 1 shifts to 3rd gear, if you are decellerating it shfts back to 1st, when the shift is needed the clutches are swapped.

The whole theory is that a gear shift is slow mechanically, bit a clutch swap can be very short, the gear shif can happen in the opposite transmission while you are accelerating or decelerating which takes a long time compared to the actual shift. This means the transmission is always shifted without a load.

Thanks.

I kinna knew all the theory, but I've never seen the inside of one, or had my hands in one.

Being a mechanic my whole life, my first instinct with Anything is to take it Completely apart to see how it works!

Same thing with a computer. I took my wife's 286 apart to see how the fuck it worked!

I've always been jealous of people like you that can actually Create something. I don't have a creative bone in my body.

But I can diagnose like a mother fucker and figure Most anything out! I just have to SEE how it works!

 

[Racey]

Thanks.

I kinna knew all the theory, but I've never seen the inside of one, or had my hands in one.

Being a mechanic my whole life, my first instinct with Anything is to take it Completely apart to see how it works!

Same thing with a computer. I took my wife's 286 apart to see how the fuck it worked!

I've always been jealous of people like you that can actually Create something. I don't have a creative bone in my body.

But I can diagnose like a mother fucker and figure Most anything out! I just have to SEE how it works!

What's even more mind blowing is that in F1 they quickly determined that a dual clutch has too much parastict loss from redundant shafts and rotational mass, so they are single clutch, they time the gear shift perfectly after calculating the gear and dog positions (which are doing different rpms) so that the fork/collar lauches off the engaged gear after a very short duration torque reduction (like a single firing event) via the engine ecu, at the exact right shaft timing so that when it lands on the next gear it lands in the engaged position with the dogs lined up perfectly.

It's basically like chipping a golf ball from a moving golf cart into a solo cup that is on the roof of another cart driving past. And making it land in the cup every time. And doing it within just a few milliseconds

 

[Boatymcboatface]

What's even more mind blowing is that in F1 they quickly determined that a dual clutch has too much parastict loss from redundant shafts and rotational mass, so they are single clutch, they time the gear shift perfectly after calculating the gear and dog positions (which are doing different rpms) so that the fork/collar lauches off the engaged gear after a very short duration torque reduction (like a single firing event) via the engine ecu, at the exact right shaft timing so that when it lands on the next gear it lands in the engaged position with the dogs lined up perfectly.

It's basically like chipping a golf ball from a moving golf cart into a solo cup that is on the roof of another cart driving past. And making it land in the cup every time. And doing it within just a few milliseconds

Amazing and thanks for the explanation. But as far as the golf comparison?

 

[rivermobster]

What's even more mind blowing is that in F1 they quickly determined that a dual clutch has too much parastict loss from redundant shafts and rotational mass, so they are single clutch, they time the gear shift perfectly after calculating the gear and dog positions (which are doing different rpms) so that the fork/collar lauches off the engaged gear after a very short duration torque reduction (like a single firing event) via the engine ecu, at the exact right shaft timing so that when it lands on the next gear it lands in the engaged position with the dogs lined up perfectly.

It's basically like chipping a golf ball from a moving golf cart into a solo cup that is on the roof of another cart driving past. And making it land in the cup every time. And doing it within just a few milliseconds

Golf cart?

Well I suppose we had to circle back to the Speed car eventually.

Nice segway.

 

[fishing fool]

I was told the "speed car is SLOW"......

 

[Bpracing1127]

I was told the "speed car is SLOW"......

Have Joe terrana do the same thing I bet he puts a faster time in

 

[rivrrts429]

Have Joe terrana do the same thing I bet he puts a faster time in

Max is only 15. That kid isn’t even near his prime yet. He’s only going to get better.

 

[Bpracing1127]

Max is only 15. That kid isn’t even near his prime yet. He’s only going to get better.

my point is pro race car driver vs joe blow. put race car driver to race car driver.

MAX has skillz!!!

 

[fishing fool]

my point is pro race car driver vs joe blow. put race car driver to race car driver.

MAX has skillz!!!

My point is "a lot of impates said the speed car is slow"......

 

[DWC]

My point is "a lot of impates said the speed car is slow"......

Is the Bandit faster because of the weight or new parts/tune?

 

[fishing fool]

Is the Bandit faster because of the weight or new parts/tune?

It's a speed car.... I have no clue.

 

[Bpracing1127]

My point is "a lot of impates said the speed car is slow"......

it is slow for 225 hp. Notice a turbo s is only 11 sec slower on a 5 min lap time. Turbo S only has 168 hp stock.


also that bandit was not stock. it at least had clutch cover mod lol

 

[Bpracing1127]

Is the Bandit faster because of the weight or new parts/tune?

that wasnt the bandit, that was the el diablo. it was fast because you had a race car driver behind it. again put any race car driver (pro) behind a stock machine and i bet its close.

 

[DWC]

that wasnt the bandit, that was the el diablo. it was fast because you had a race car driver behind it. again put any race car driver (pro) behind a stock machine and i bet its close.

Question withdrawn. Why are the new 2 doors faster than the 4 doors?

 

[Bpracing1127]

Question withdrawn. Why are the new 2 doors faster than the 4 doors?

Weight. 100lb kid driving doesn’t hurt too

 

[dirtslinger2]

Question withdrawn. Why are the new 2 doors faster than the 4 doors?

weight and wheel base.

 

[rivrrts429]

it is slow for 225 hp. Notice a turbo s is only 11 sec slower on a 5 min lap time. Turbo S only has 168 hp stock.


also that bandit was not stock. it at least had clutch cover mod lol

11 seconds is an insane delta between times when talking about 5 minute increments.

Over a long period of time that’s a hell of a gap in a racing environment. The Speed car is also 400lbs heavier before driver or co-dawg.

I share many of the same views you do about the Speed car but to say an 11 second gap between a Turbo S that races in the same class as the Speed car isn’t significant appears shortsighted.

I’ll gladly take that 11 seconds in my Turbo S.

 

[NIKAL]

it is slow for 225 hp. Notice a turbo s is only 11 sec slower on a 5 min lap time. Turbo S only has 168 hp stock.


also that bandit was not stock. it at least had clutch cover mod lol

That Turbo S is a full built race car , driven by a racer. I’m confident that motor & tuning is not stock either. If it is then he’s getting smoked by the other cars in his class. I’m sure his ECU is tuned etc.. also power to weight ratio, that Turbo S might be right there with these heavier newer cars.

That Speed Diablo was the car Robby raced at KOTH desert race. It’s about 95% bone stock with the exception of 35 tires, I think Wilwood brakes? and clutch cover fan mod. It still had the stock shock springs on it.

 

[zhandfull]

Speed car listed at invoice, no markup.

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[sandshark1]

Ya I have been changing mine every 1000-1200 miles just because lol. I don't want to push it and have it take out something else if it did break. But I know people with 3K miles on the OG belt (desert use). Takes about 15-20min to change if you know what you're doing, even with my Sparcos the mounts are easy to come out with one pin.

My friend did some clutch tuning on his turbo Pro R. We did over 200 miles of duning this weekend and no issues with the belt. He is ready to add more boost. LOL! A turbo on the Pro R makes the car stupid fast.

 

[sandshark1]

Clearly you're never replaced one that shreaded into a thousand pieces, out in the sand dunes, where if you happen to drop anything into the sand, you'll never find it again!

5min to maintenance one in your garage? Maybe.

Out in the real world? It takes 30 minutes to dig all the busted up pieces out of everywhere, on a HOT engine. And Then install a new belt, with no opportunity to properly break it in.

It is NOT anyone's idea of fun.

30 minutes? It is about 15 minutes to change a belt and another 15 minutes for everyone to get get back in their cars so you can get going again. LOL!!!

 

[rivermobster]

30 minutes? It is about 15 minutes to change a belt and another 15 minutes for everyone to get get back in their cars so you can get going again. LOL!!!

Sounds like fun.

 

[sandshark1]

That Turbo S is a full built race car , driven by a racer. I’m confident that motor & tuning is not stock either. If it is then he’s getting smoked by the other cars in his class. I’m sure his ECU is tuned etc.. also power to weight ratio, that Turbo S might be right there with these heavier newer cars.

That Speed Diablo was the car Robby raced at KOTH desert race. It’s about 95% bone stock with the exception of 35 tires, I think Wilwood brakes? and clutch cover fan mod. It still had the stock shock springs on it.

Time difference was Max was carrying speed into and through the corners. The two other guys said they slow way down in the corners.

Be interesting to see what times Max would get in a Bandit.

 

[sandshark1]

Sounds like fun.

Had to do a few belt changes in the dunes this weekend, my X3 included. My clutches faces are getting worn out after 4300 miles and starting to cause premature belt breakage. I can normally go an entire dune season on one belt.

 

[rivermobster]

Had to do a few belt changes in the dunes this weekend, my X3 included. My clutches faces are getting worn out after 4300 miles and starting to cause premature belt breakage. I can normally go an entire dune season on one belt.

Well that explains your screen name nicely I suppose.

 

[Fishd00d]

My friend did some clutch tuning on his turbo Pro R. We did over 200 miles of duning this weekend and no issues with the belt. He is ready to add more boost. LOL! A turbo on the Pro R makes the car stupid fast.

Im scared to touch the engine on either of mine. Stock FTW just with a tune to get rid of some of the BS like cant start in gear, and to get the fans to come on earlier. The turbo seems fun for the dunes but I have seen engine issues with a lot of those turbo cars and see guys pulling them off too. Lemme know how your friends goes!

 

[sandshark1]

Im scared to touch the engine on either of mine. Stock FTW just with a tune to get rid of some of the BS like cant start in gear, and to get the fans to come on earlier. The turbo seems fun for the dunes but I have seen engine issues with a lot of those turbo cars and see guys pulling them off too. Lemme know how your friends goes!

My other friend has a bigger throttle body and Bikeman 91 octance tune on his Pro R. It is rock solid. I think me might add the Bikeman cam which will bring the car to 300hp. For the desert the stock tune is plenty fast.

Friend with the turbo had tuning issues initially, but went to a different tuner and all has been good whether he run the 91 tune or the E85 tune.

If it does not come from the factory with a turbo I would not add one. I agree they can be a nightmare. I am pretty sure my friend would go another route if he could recoup the cost of the turbo.

 

[fishing fool]

So we all agree it’s not the car that’s slow it’s the person behind the wheel…….

 

[DoughBallin14]

update post for anyone looking at trying a back window out.
Looks like vent racing has em getting ready to go.

 

[rivermobster]

So we all agree it’s not the car that’s slow it’s the delivery.

Fixed it for ya.

 

[zhandfull]

update post for anyone looking at trying a back window out.
Looks like vent racing has em getting ready to go.

View attachment 1337147

Got to love the comment section of just about any post. Speed related or not.

 

[RiverDave]

I was down there today and there is a ton going on, deliveries happening, people buying cars etc..

Haters are gonna hate but things are moving and shaking down there like it or not.

 

[rivrrts429]

SDS (Speed derangement syndrome) is going to kick off in 3… 2… 1…

 

[bentprops]

View attachment 1337347 View attachment 1337348 View attachment 1337349 View attachment 1337350 View attachment 1337351 View attachment 1337352 I was down there today and there is a ton going on, deliveries happening, people buying cars etc..

Haters are gonna hate but things are moving and shaking down there like it or not.

This pisses me off, 4 freaking years and mine is still not delivered. yet some how these higher number diablos are going home first.

 

[Bpracing1127]

View attachment 1337347 View attachment 1337348 View attachment 1337349 View attachment 1337350 View attachment 1337351 View attachment 1337352 I was down there today and there is a ton going on, deliveries happening, people buying cars etc..

Haters are gonna hate but things are moving and shaking down there like it or not.

How is your car second motor and all lol

 

[DWC]

This pisses me off, 4 freaking years and mine is still not delivered. yet some how these higher number diablos are going home first.

Please refer to the hater guidelines.. Not sure if this comment is allowed.

 

[bentprops]

Please refer to the hater guidelines.. Not sure if this comment is allowed.

You can look iv never been a hater. I love what they have done. Being buisness guy i think they have done great things. I would've done some things different but i would have never attempted such a huge undertaking. However almost 2 months ago i was notified my car was in corona. Than all of the sudden that was a mistake. I feel like my car was confiscated for a koa race car and another was shipped over for me. Mean while im still waiting. Frustrating fo sure. Not sure what worse. This or the promise that i would have it December 2020 but no later than jan 21.

 

[Singleton]

555 and 556 were camped next to me @ Superstition over the weekend.
They looked good, but we rode more in one day, then that group did in 3.

 

[rivermobster]

Please refer to the hater guidelines.. Not sure if this comment is allowed.

I wonder which one Robbie will pick...

 

[DWC]

You can look iv never been a hater. I love what they have done. Being buisness guy i think they have done great things. I would've done some things different but i would have never attempted such a huge undertaking. However almost 2 months ago i was notified my car was in corona. Than all of the sudden that was a mistake. I feel like my car was confiscated for a koa race car and another was shipped over for me. Mean while im still waiting. Frustrating fo sure. Not sure what worse. This or the promise that i would have it December 2020 but no later than jan 21.

Sorry, i was just messing around. I’m not a hater either. Hope it works out for everyone.

 

[Outdrive1]

I saw a couple of new ones in the neighborhood today. Cool colors, one green and one all blue. They look badass. Both in the 500’s.

 

[RiverDave]

How is your car second motor and all lol

Pick it up Wednesday! Then Robby and I are going to go run it to make sure it’s all good.

 

[DLC]

You can look iv never been a hater. I love what they have done. Being buisness guy i think they have done great things. I would've done some things different but i would have never attempted such a huge undertaking. However almost 2 months ago i was notified my car was in corona. Than all of the sudden that was a mistake. I feel like my car was confiscated for a koa race car and another was shipped over for me. Mean while im still waiting. Frustrating fo sure. Not sure what worse. This or the promise that i would have it December 2020 but no later than jan 21.

Unfortunately
Nothing you can do!

gets super frustarting ….

It would be cool to have a secret long in to view where you are in the build process and see a snapshot of car numbers that are built, in shipping mode, DPI mode etc….

 

[RiverDave]

This pisses me off, 4 freaking years and mine is still not delivered. yet some how these higher number diablos are going home first.

That might have to do with that weird master number program they have going on?

Which Diablo number are you? Does it have a different master number?

 

[RiverDave]

I wonder which one Robbie will pick...

View attachment 1337421

They are aware of issues and are addressing them as fast as they can. I will say with regard to some of them they aren’t putting stop rides out but rather fixing them as they come in for service or if they do break..

Guy just replaced 570 turbos.. they are manually taking off all the decompression deals and changing tunes as people come in or as they can.

 

[rivermobster]

They are aware of issues and are addressing them as fast as they can. I will say with regard to some of them they aren’t putting stop rides out but rather fixing them as they come in for service or if they do break..

Guy just replaced 570 turbos.. they are manually taking off all the decompression deals and changing tunes as people come in or as they can.

Everyone has been asking about your car yano. What's the latest? Inquiring minds wanna know!

 

[rivermobster]

Pick it up Wednesday! Then Robby and I are going to go run it to make sure it’s all good.

Nevermind. Lol.

Best of luck!