Speed UTV - discussion

[RiverDave]

Everyone is in violent agreement.. I the case of the Speed car, it is a coefficient of friction issue (pads) or pressure, or both.

A solution exists, but I think it is a solvable problem without having to buy a $4000 brake kit.

I got a couple friends in town this weekend that are going tot Alena look at the breaks on a speed.

One is @Fabhouse whos resume is so long it’s not worth even typing.. the other is Jason from tube works whos again resume is so long.. lol

They are gonna look at it this evening

 

[RiverDave]

@RiverDave

any more updates, did you get the car to stop overheating with windshield?

brakes get any better?

Been too busy with work to mess with it.. I’ll get after it again soon.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I got a couple friends in town this weekend that are going tot Alena look at the breaks on a speed.

One is @Fabhouse whos resume is so long it’s not worth even typing.. the other is Jason from tube works whos again resume is so long.. lol

They are gonna look at it this evening

Once the pedal ratio, master bore size and caliper piston size is known we will know exactly what to change, and if it is more than just pads.

 

[RiverDave]

So Chad Nelson stopped by a friends place last night and @Fabhouse and Jason from tube works were there.. they literally adjusted the clevis on the brakes and gave him some more pedal throw and it greatly improved the brake situation.

They also suggested rubbing different pads.. those two pretty much figured out every problem in twenty minutes..

 

[Fabhouse]

So what's the fix on the overheating. Lol

**observation only, I spent an hour with a car, mostly looking at braking issues**
It seems that the oil cooler is mounted directly in front of the radiator. It covers 60+% of the radiator surface. Likely a packaging issue. Creates a huge reduction in airflow to the radiator. ***this is not always an issue, and oil and water temps should have a pretty close delta, +/- 30deg. I think the larger issue is the windshield, with cabin airflow both coolers should work fine in concert. I would likely consider a heat exchanger rather than the finned oil cooler if i had the choice, in order to more expose the radiator and still offer balanced water/oil cooling.

 

[RiverDave]

So here is the video Chad put out.. I believe the initial test was 150+’??

It stops in 79’ now. This was after @Fabhouse adjusted the clevis real quick.

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[LargeOrangeFont]

So here is the video Chad put out.. I believe the initial test was 150+’??

It stops in 79’ now. This was after @Fabhouse adjusted the clevis real quick.

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Now we just need some pads that don't get cooked in 2 stops and we will be in business.

 

[TVMNick]

Great chatting with you at the DCB Regatta about your Speed Dave! It sounds like you are making some headway with it, I hope you get some time to go enjoy the machine. I appreciated your insight into the platform, hopefully we can go ride sometime! I'd love for you to come up to Utah and rip with us.

I'm going to get my Maverick R back out to the dunes this weekend and keep testing with it. Hoping to have some Evo Beta tunes for it soon to see what it will actually do in the near future!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

On what master number? I'm 538 and thinking about the same time frame.

497.

 

[lenmann]

Speed cars are showing up out in the wild up our way.

Car 127 spotted at MoonRocks north of Reno yesterday afternoon. Car had 20 miles of neighborhood pavement time on the tires when he unloaded it. Guy said he and 8 other buddies laid down deposits way back when, he is the only one that didn't bail. He picked it up and the Sand Show and it's his first SXS but they have lots of previous dirt bike experience. Needles to say he and his wife were pretty excited to get it dirty.

The car is beautiful and me and a couple buddies gave it a pretty good once over. Build quality, fit and finish all looked top notch.

We had just returned from a 5 hour ride when he rolled into the camping area. We about slipped on our own shit getting over to his camp to grab a look! I told him he better get used to the celebrity factor the car has.

 

[Speed59]

Hey guys I own Speed 59 here’s what I’ve learn and my 2c on the overheating issue

We went to a 55mile ride last week and the car was overheating we had to stop several times to cool it down ambient temp was around 95f, the very next day we took off the windshield and tested it for another 30 miles and problem solved, no more overheating.

The design has several flaws
1 radiators are sitting too low
2 rear seats cover 2/3 of the front part of the radiator
3 the roof scoop is useless cause all possible air that flows trough passes on the 1’ clearing between the roof and the rads

Solutions
Remove windshield (I tested it and works)
Cover the top area so that the air is deflected or forced into lower radiator area
Raise the Rads so that the air that’s flowing is able t9 hit the rads and the seats don’t cover them

 

[StandardCycles]

Hey Guys,
Came across this forum looking for answers and or advice on the “cooling” fan issue with Speed UTV car.

First off I will say…..I love the car….
Handles great! Rides great and has plenty of power for what I do….

Just looking for some insight…

I have car #43 el jefe
I live in Parker Az

I recently went on a small ride to get the feel of the car with my buddies
From my house I dropped into the wash and headed towards Shea Road…
Noticed the water temp indicator climb up 2 notches from the starting point.
I clicked over to the more informative screen for all temps.
I watched all the vitals while navigating the wash to the pavement.
Hit Shea road, ran 60-65 mph. Down Shea road…
Had to stop and pull over about a 1/4 mile before the canal bridge to let cool down….
Car water temp was at 225 and jumped to limp mode.

What I did notice is the car only had the 1 fan on. Outside temperature was 72 degrees

Let the car cool down and continued down the road…about another 3-5 miles.
Car jumped quickly back up to the mid 220-227 degree temp.
Still only 1 fan on.(right rear)
At that point I decided to slowly turn around and get it home so it wasn’t a really bad day.

Fast forward crabbed a test light unplugged the other 2 fans.. to verify power to them
Had nothing on far left and only after I unplugged and re plugged the center fan did it come on.

Took the car for a quick , fast run back out to the wash…
Got out to inspect fans …now only the center fan was on…far left and far right off.
Drove car back home.
Removed the center console between the back seats to locate the drivetrain fuse / relay pod.
Located which relays were the fans…
Took far left fan relay out and swapped it with far right relay….also ensured all relays were seated correctly.
Applied all covers and panels back.
Fired car back up drove to Circle K for Some beverages with buddies combined weight in car was probably in the 700-745 range.
Fans seemed to be working as normal.
(In stages based on water temp.)
Right fan first…far left fan next…center came on about 195 ish.

Considered this a win on the diagnosis….
Let car completely cool down while all family’s showered for diner ….
Outside temp was 60-65 degrees at 5pm.
Drove car to diner Pirates Den.
Here is the odd part
With the car water temp around 172-178 the far right fan was on as normal , but now the center fan was on???…

By the time we arrived back at the house pulled into the Garage the car water temp at 185… and all 3 fans were running.

I’m lost…..
I just want to know from anyone if they are having this sporadic fan response.

Also keep in mind …..at no point has there been a windshield on the car.

I have read all the previous replies to RD’s post.
Any and all suggestions and advice welcomed

 

[rivermobster]

Hey Guys,
Came across this forum looking for answers and or advice on the “cooling” fan issue with Speed UTV car.

First off I will say…..I love the car….
Handles great! Rides great and has plenty of power for what I do….

Just looking for some insight…

I have car #43 el jefe
I live in Parker Az

I recently went on a small ride to get the feel of the car with my buddies
From my house I dropped into the wash and headed towards Shea Road…
Noticed the water temp indicator climb up 2 notches from the starting point.
I clicked over to the more informative screen for all temps.
I watched all the vitals while navigating the wash to the pavement.
Hit Shea road, ran 60-65 mph. Down Shea road…
Had to stop and pull over about a 1/4 mile before the canal bridge to let cool down….
Car water temp was at 225 and jumped to limp mode.

What I did notice is the car only had the 1 fan on. Outside temperature was 72 degrees

Let the car cool down and continued down the road…about another 3-5 miles.
Car jumped quickly back up to the mid 220-227 degree temp.
Still only 1 fan on.(right rear)
At that point I decided to slowly turn around and get it home so it wasn’t a really bad day.

Fast forward crabbed a test light unplugged the other 2 fans.. to verify power to them
Had nothing on far left and only after I unplugged and re plugged the center fan did it come on.

Took the car for a quick , fast run back out to the wash…
Got out to inspect fans …now only the center fan was on…far left and far right off.
Drove car back home.
Removed the center console between the back seats to locate the drivetrain fuse / relay pod.
Located which relays were the fans…
Took far left fan relay out and swapped it with far right relay….also ensured all relays were seated correctly.
Applied all covers and panels back.
Fired car back up drove to Circle K for Some beverages with buddies combined weight in car was probably in the 700-745 range.
Fans seemed to be working as normal.
(In stages based on water temp.)
Right fan first…far left fan next…center came on about 195 ish.

Considered this a win on the diagnosis….
Let car completely cool down while all family’s showered for diner ….
Outside temp was 60-65 degrees at 5pm.
Drove car to diner Pirates Den.
Here is the odd part
With the car water temp around 172-178 the far right fan was on as normal , but now the center fan was on???…

By the time we arrived back at the house pulled into the Garage the car water temp at 185… and all 3 fans were running.

I’m lost…..
I just want to know from anyone if they are having this sporadic fan response.

Also keep in mind …..at no point has there been a windshield on the car.

I have read all the previous replies to RD’s post.
Any and all suggestions and advice welcomed

First I want to say...

Nice job on the diagnosis! Best one I've seen so far.

My suggestion would be to get a wiring diagram, if you don't have one already.

If it was me, I would jumper each relay, with a 10 gauge wire, so that all fans are on all the time with the key on. If they wired the car normally, jumping pins 30 and 87 should do it. Check that pin 30 has power when you turn the key on and verify pin 86 goes directly to one of the fans to power it up. Go drive the car HARD to see if the cooling system actually has the capacity to keep the car cool.

If the system won't keep the car cool under hard driving, now you have a REAL problem that Speed needs to resolve and you are not going to fix.

If the car does stay cool, and the dash temp levels off at some point during HARD driving, have a lazer temp gun with you and start taking readings at both the radiator intake and exit hoses. Jump out and write down the readings with the engine running at idle. Do the temps match what's on the display at all? Is there a noticeable difference between the inlet and outlet hoses? What is the point of this particular step???

I've seen a whole bunch of situations (in other vehicles) where the displayed temp is not even close to the actual engine temp. You'll want to determine IF the engine IS actually overheating, or the display is just reading wrong? I have yet to see anyone post the radiator boiled over, which leads me to suspect that the engine isn't actually overheating. It would be good to verify that the temp gun radiator inlet temp reading and and the display reading, are Somewhat close to the same.

If you can come up with an actual wiring diagram, we can do some more in depth diagnosis.

ProTip: You really should Never use a test light and always use a DVOM when diagnosing a computer controlled car.

 

[River Dirt 2]

Pics for reference. 1st pics are fuse box between rear seats. 2nd fuse box is in front under the hood.

I believe a wiring diagram is still MIA

 

[rivermobster]

Those are not standard relays.

K6, K7, and K8 are not marked, so there is no way to determine what the pin assignments might be.

You'd have to figure that out on your own. Definitely do not use a test light.

 

[StandardCycles]

Those are not standard relays.

K6, K7, and K8 are not marked, so there is no way to determine what the pin assignments might be.

You'd have to figure that out on your own. Definitely do not use a test light.

Just to clarify my test light diagnosis….
I used a test light on the red wire that supplies power to the fan terminal water tight plug not on the relay on the fuse module.

 

[rivermobster]

Just to clarify my test light diagnosis….
I used a test light on the red wire that supplies power to the fan terminal water tight plug not on the relay on the fuse module.

From your diagnosis...

It's pretty obvious you know what you're doing.

 

[rivrrts429]

I’d wire the fans direct from a switchPro’s panel or otherwise if I owned one of these cars like our race cars. Rear radiators are going to be susceptible to some degree to potential heat issues. The quicker you can begin transferring the heat the better without depending on a heat temp sensor.

 

[StandardCycles]

From your diagnosis...

It's pretty obvious you know what you're doing.

I’d wire the fans direct from a switchPro’s panel or otherwise if I owned one of these cars like our race cars. Rear radiators are going to be susceptible to some degree to potential heat issues. The quicker you can begin transferring the heat the better without depending on a heat temp sensor.

Being that the car is extremely new, I am hoping to solve the issue, But yes wiring the fans to a direct switch would be an amazing option if it comes to that.

 

[RiverDave]

View attachment 1307137 View attachment 1307138 View attachment 1307139 View attachment 1307140 View attachment 1307141 Pics for reference. 1st pics are fuse box between rear seats. 2nd fuse box is in front under the hood.

I believe a wiring diagram is still MIA

I believe it’s in the manual online

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I’d wire the fans direct from a switchPro’s panel or otherwise if I owned one of these cars like our race cars. Rear radiators are going to be susceptible to some degree to potential heat issues. The quicker you can begin transferring the heat the better without depending on a heat temp sensor.

Or I’d just wire all of them to come on at the low temp threshold.

 

[rivermobster]

I’d wire the fans direct from a switchPro’s panel or otherwise if I owned one of these cars like our race cars. Rear radiators are going to be susceptible to some degree to potential heat issues. The quicker you can begin transferring the heat the better without depending on a heat temp sensor.

I'm wondering if the computer is using just one temp sensor to control Everything?

If so, I'd eliminate the computer completely, and put a sensor in the radiator outlet hose to turn all the fans on at once.

What's the point of progressive fans in an off-road vehicle? It's not like you're concerned about fuel milage and all that jazz?

But then again...

The engine may NEED to run at a certain temp to get past the CARB emissions requirements.

Lots of unknowns going on.

 

[Bpracing1127]

I'm wondering if the computer is using just one temp sensor to control Everything?

If so, I'd eliminate the computer completely, and put a sensor in the radiator outlet hose to turn all the fans on at once.

What's the point of progressive fans in an off-road vehicle? It's not like you're concerned about fuel milage and all that jazz?

But then again...

The engine may NEED to run at a certain temp to get past the CARB emissions requirements.

Lots of unknowns going on.

We know for a fact that the engine won’t run right if it gets too cold too

 

[rivrrts429]

Or I’d just wire all of them to come on at the low temp threshold.

That would probably help as well. There’s a reason why most of these UTV’s in race trim have their fans wired to be on from the start.

 

[River Dirt 2]

I believe it’s in the manual online

No wiring diagram in the owners manual

You have to be 170 degrees plus in both water and oil temp before its happy. Otherwise it can/will go into limp mode, thus the fans have to sequence to maintain proper water and oil temps.

 

[rivermobster]

No wiring diagram in the owners manual

You have to be 170 degrees plus in both water and oil temp before its happy. Otherwise it can/will go into limp mode, thus the fans have to sequence to maintain proper water and oil temps.

I'm gonna disagree with that theory.

Why?

It's true, most modern engines need to be kept at a certain temperature to function properly. Absolutely no doubt about that. For a whole bunch of different reasons, it can be critical.

Do the fans need to come on incrementally for that to happen?

Doubtful.

Once everything is up to operating temp and settles in, the fans just need to cycle on and off to maintain that temp.

This is why you put a coolant/fan temp sensor in the radiator outlet hose.

Your controlling the water temp going into the engine, to maintain an ideal condition.

Now...

This assumes the fans and radiator are Fully up to that task?

This is the first determination that needs to be made.

Proper diagnosis starts with the basics. Then you Slowly move on from there.

 

[Bigbore500r]

All the fan talk for a car trying to cool a car going 60 MPH is nonsense. It's not overheating at idle. As for reversing the fans, I agree, there is no need to pump 140 degree air into the cabin on rear seat passengers. And I've never seen any car that pushed air with a fan against vehicle airflow.

Revisiting this with some real world info - in my case, i can confirm fans are 100% required to keep my car cool running at 60+ mph.

I had a fan connector come off my buggy this weekend. We were running 60-70 mph continous for 20 minutes, temp usually sets around 175 in these conditions. Noticed temp gauge creeping up slowly, eventually it hit 215 and I pulled over to see what was happening, and noticed only one of my two fans was on. Found the loose fan connector, and fixed it - both fans came on, and problem went away, temps dropped to 170 for the rest of the run. Ambient temps outside in the high 50's / low 60's.

My buggy has it's radiator mounted behind the rear seats, similar to the speed car. It also has a windshield, roof, and the passenger compartment has an enclosed floor and sides, similar to the speed car. My fuel tank is a few inches in front of my radiator, and it obscures about 70% of the radiator's frontal area (very similar to the seats blocking the radiator in the speed car).

My fans are 2 large units, with a shroud that covers 100% of the finned surface area on the backside of the radiator. They are configured to pull the air thru the radiator, and exhaust it out the rear. One thing I will say, is that my radiator is probably at least twice the size of what is on the Speed car. Granted, it is cooling a considerably larger 3.5L motor, but i am only pushing an estimated 275hp with zero belt slip and a true 1:1 final drive ratio (manual trans, clutch).

My takeaway - my radiator is very obstructed from incoming airflow (similar to the speed car), but it's huge and has massive fans and is 100% shrouded with zero uncovered area. It needs all the fans to stay cool, even running on flat ground on a cool day.

Maybe the speed car needs a bigger radiator, larger surface area and larger fans to cover that area, to work with the enclosed body, floor and windshield scenario.
This also seems to be supported by the recent post by @StandardCycles, where his car required all of the fans operating to cool the car down, even without the windshield, with the vehicle at speed.

My fan setup, for reference

 

[ArizonaKevin]

Love that these are finally making it out in the wild, was fun seeing a few in Ocotillo Wells this weekend and chatting with the owners about their thoughts so far, I feel some level of connection to this car as the natural successor to my XX.

I do have to say that dyno testing and drag racing UTVs may be the most pointless test. There are now (2) Turbo S in our group, and they saw nothing but taillights from my 130hp NA 64" wide car weighing ~2000lb wet.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Revisiting this with some real world info - in my case, i can confirm fans are 100% required to keep my car cool running at 60+ mph.

I had a fan connector come off my buggy this weekend. We were running 60-70 mph continous for 20 minutes, temp usually sets around 175 in these conditions. Noticed temp gauge creeping up slowly, eventually it hit 215 and I pulled over to see what was happening, and noticed only one of my two fans was on. Found the loose fan connector, and fixed it - both fans came on, and problem went away, temps dropped to 170 for the rest of the run. Ambient temps outside in the high 50's / low 60's.

My buggy has it's radiator mounted behind the rear seats, similar to the speed car. It also has a windshield, roof, and the passenger compartment has an enclosed floor and sides, similar to the speed car. My fuel tank is a few inches in front of my radiator, and it obscures about 70% of the radiator's frontal area (very similar to the seats blocking the radiator in the speed car).

My fans are 2 large units, with a shroud that covers 100% of the finned surface area on the backside of the radiator. They are configured to pull the air thru the radiator, and exhaust it out the rear. One thing I will say, is that my radiator is probably at least twice the size of what is on the Speed car. Granted, it is cooling a considerably larger 3.5L motor, but i am only pushing an estimated 275hp with zero belt slip and a true 1:1 final drive ratio (manual trans, clutch).

My takeaway - my radiator is very obstructed from incoming airflow (similar to the speed car), but it's huge and has massive fans and is 100% shrouded with zero uncovered area. It needs all the fans to stay cool, even running on flat ground on a cool day.

Maybe the speed car needs a bigger radiator, larger surface area and larger fans to cover that area, to work with the enclosed body, floor and windshield scenario.
This also seems to be supported by the recent post by @StandardCycles, where his car required all of the fans operating to cool the car down, even without the windshield, with the vehicle at speed.

My fan setup, for reference
View attachment 1307454

View attachment 1307456

The radiator in your buggy looks to have open sides so yes you need a giant radiator and fans as you have no other way to direct air through the radiator.

If it needs the fans to maintain the airflow because too much of the radiator frontal area is blocked, then that is what it needs. If we are able to force more air into that shrouded area of the Speed car, then that may solve the problem.

I don't know what is in there for ducting or shrouding in the Speed car, because I don't have a car to look at yet and no one has posted any real pictures. If it is open like yore buggy, or even open on the bottom, it may need a bigger radiator as a band aid, or more shrouding around the radiator but this is clearly something that can be solved with airflow, because people without windshields are largely not having issues.

There are literally a couple hundred of these cars running around now. Not all of them are overheating.

 

[rivermobster]

Revisiting this with some real world info - in my case, i can confirm fans are 100% required to keep my car cool running at 60+ mph.

I had a fan connector come off my buggy this weekend. We were running 60-70 mph continous for 20 minutes, temp usually sets around 175 in these conditions. Noticed temp gauge creeping up slowly, eventually it hit 215 and I pulled over to see what was happening, and noticed only one of my two fans was on. Found the loose fan connector, and fixed it - both fans came on, and problem went away, temps dropped to 170 for the rest of the run. Ambient temps outside in the high 50's / low 60's.

My buggy has it's radiator mounted behind the rear seats, similar to the speed car. It also has a windshield, roof, and the passenger compartment has an enclosed floor and sides, similar to the speed car. My fuel tank is a few inches in front of my radiator, and it obscures about 70% of the radiator's frontal area (very similar to the seats blocking the radiator in the speed car).

My fans are 2 large units, with a shroud that covers 100% of the finned surface area on the backside of the radiator. They are configured to pull the air thru the radiator, and exhaust it out the rear. One thing I will say, is that my radiator is probably at least twice the size of what is on the Speed car. Granted, it is cooling a considerably larger 3.5L motor, but i am only pushing an estimated 275hp with zero belt slip and a true 1:1 final drive ratio (manual trans, clutch).

My takeaway - my radiator is very obstructed from incoming airflow (similar to the speed car), but it's huge and has massive fans and is 100% shrouded with zero uncovered area. It needs all the fans to stay cool, even running on flat ground on a cool day.

Maybe the speed car needs a bigger radiator, larger surface area and larger fans to cover that area, to work with the enclosed body, floor and windshield scenario.
This also seems to be supported by the recent post by @StandardCycles, where his car required all of the fans operating to cool the car down, even without the windshield, with the vehicle at speed.

My fan setup, for reference
View attachment 1307454

View attachment 1307456

Hopefully @StandardCycles will run my basic jumper wire test, so we can see how the Whole system works.

 

[River Dirt 2]

I'm gonna disagree with that theory.

Why?

It's true, most modern engines need to be kept at a certain temperature to function properly. Absolutely no doubt about that. For a whole bunch of different reasons, it can be critical.

Do the fans need to come on incrementally for that to happen?

Doubtful.

Once everything is up to operating temp and settles in, the fans just need to cycle on and off to maintain that temp.

This is why you put a coolant/fan temp sensor in the radiator outlet hose.

Your controlling the water temp going into the engine, to maintain an ideal condition.

Now...

This assumes the fans and radiator are Fully up to that task?

This is the first determination that needs to be made.

Proper diagnosis starts with the basics. Then you Slowly move on from there.

Not a theory, that’s what the owners manual and Speed has said.
our car ran perfect all weekend, 300+ miles. That said that’s with no windshield, but Speed has said the windshield currently is limited by outdoor ambient.

going forward there looks to be room for improvement in the fan shrouding area and I’ll be messing with that before the next run at New Years.

 

[rivermobster]

Not a theory, that’s what the owners manual and Speed has said.
our car ran perfect all weekend, 300+ miles. That said that’s with no windshield, but Speed has said the windshield currently is limited by outdoor ambient.

going forward there looks to be room for improvement in the fan shrouding area and I’ll be messing with that before the next run at New Years.

Correct. It's their theory. It's how they designed the car. It makes complete sense.

In Most modern cars, they pulse width modulate just one cooling fan (vary the rpm's) to achieve the same seneriao.

I'm would guess your Vette works this way? And I'll bet your Vette has a radiator temp sensor that controls the cooling fan operation. Along with the cooling map in the computer.

In an off road vehicle, I doubt such precision temperature regulation is needed?

But let's get back to basics and find out First, before anything else, if the system actually will keep up.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Correct. It's their theory. It's how they designed the car. It makes complete sense.

In Most modern cars, they pulse width modulate just one cooling fan (vary the rpm's) to achieve the same seneriao.

I'm would guess your Vette works this way? And I'll bet your Vette has a radiator temp sensor that controls the cooling fan operation. Along with the cooling map in the computer.

In an off road vehicle, I doubt such precision temperature regulation is needed?

But let's get back to basics and find out First, before anything else, if the system actually will keep up.

Those newer vettes have a single coolant temp sensor in the engine area that runs everything. There is not a separate one in the radiator.

There is no need for PWM control with multiple fans.

We already know the systems will keep up in a general sense. There are many people running around without issue. The system probably needs some adjustments for higher temps.

 

[RiverDave]

Those newer vettes have a single coolant temp sensor in the engine area that runs everything. There is not a separate one in the radiator.

There is no need for PWM control with multiple fans.

We already know the systems will keep up in a general sense. There are many people running around without issue. The system probably needs some adjustments for higher temps.

Mine was fine even in 100 degree weather with the windshield off..

 

[RiverDave]

So three turbos in two days..

Before I get started I would like to tell everyone what the actual boost issues are.

The original turbo had three flaws..

1. The exhaust side would crack and it would bleed boost past the waste gate

2. The waste gate shaft was too small and they would bend allowing exhaust to escape

3. The bolts would come loose after a few heat cycles.

The first three pics are some turbos that had already been taken out of cars .


My car started experiencing the low boost issue and at the end of the last ride I noticed the exhaust note changed..

 

[RiverDave]

Speed is installing the replacement turbos on all of the cars, and I had actually picked up the replacement turbo to install on my car. As most know Eric Barker is building my sign truck and they gave me the turbo on the premise that Eric would install it for me.. otherwise they pretty much want it done in house (for now). So I have the turbo. I elected that I’d rather have Eric keep working on the sign truck so I went to Ken from push turbo as everyone online was saying his turbo was basically the upgrade.. so I paid the $$ to get his whole “kit” and have it installed.

I took my ecu down to speed to get reflashed as they had an update..


He installed his turbo, blow off valve, and a clutch spring and removed all but two of the clutch weights..

We tested the car and it ran great.. point in fact he said “for some reason yours runs better than all the other ones”. I couldn’t tell ya why but if I had to guess I actually have been easy on mine breaking it in right actually letting it warm up to temps etc.. or it could be I just got a hotter tune on accident? I’m not sure..

We made a couple of “roll on” acceleration runs and I was pretty surprised by them.. 20-50 mph pulls.. either way I was in a hurry so after those two runs that was it..



This is what we found when we took the bed off the car. And ultimately what was the cause of my low boost issues..

The bolts had come loose or in some cases had fallen out and the cases split. The heat actually cut a line in the heat shielding.. those pics are exactly as it was.. we didn’t loosen or remove any bolts.

 

[RiverDave]

I will say Speed has been absolutely great through this.. I went down there they handed me new heat shields, with no drama etc..

So now it’s the next day and I’m talking to Robby about something else and he asks me if I put one of Ken’s turbos on my car, so I tell him that I did.. he then basically says if I run the car with that turbo it’s gonna void the warranty because they had two cars develop problems after that turbo was installed..

No problem.. so now I trailer the car over to Eric Barkers house and Ken’s turbo comes out and the speed turbo goes in.. (that’s turbo number three in two days).

Speed also provided a relocation kit for a water temp sensor that we installed.

When Ken installed his turbo he used studs and 10mm nuts with lock washers etc to keep everything tight. Those were reused on the speed turbo instead of bolts.. I’d highly recommend doing this.

 

[RiverDave]

When you replace the turbo if you are careful you will only lose a few ounces of coolant.. we also did the sensor relocation so we lost a little more. Between both changes I’d estimate it to be around 12 ounces. (I bring this up for a reason)

Because it’s supposed to be freezing cold this weekend we put the windshield back on. I had read somewhere that someone burped the radiator and added some super cool and hadn’t had any issues with overheating after that.

We ended up pouring 3/4 of a bottle of whatever redline calls their glycol mix and ALMOST AN ENTIRE JUG of coolant.. this thing was WAY LOW from the get go..

Final results are the car is making 36 lbs of boost at peak at 9,000 rpm at half to three quarter throttle..

That is a little too much boost and too much rpm. I asked Robby if I might have gotten a hot tune on accident or?? Upside is the car is crazy fast.. lol. Robby replied that it isn’t gonna live forever like that and to bring it in so they can see what’s what.

I’m guessing the clutch spring and removing all but two of the weights is responsible for the rpm. I’m looking for four weights to put back in it to solve that before the weekend (Ken took the weights with him) Speed will look at the boost deal.. could be a couple of different things.

The car is currently over at Morgan motorsports getting prepped for desert bash and I pick it up Friday.

I didn’t get a lot of time to drive it with the windshield on but my hopes are high that the coolant and super cool will solve or mitigate the overheating problem.. if it doesn’t I may add some spacers at the bottom again, and if that doesn’t work a rear windshield is coming next.

RD

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Good info Dave. The use of studs on the exhaust housing is a much better idea.

 

[Fast Willy]

God, from reading through this fiasco!! You guys bought POS un tested vehicles. I would never be happy with a Speed vehicle if it overheated, turbos broke, bolts falling out, brake problems. You could of bought some China UTV & had better luck & performance!

 

[Bpracing1127]

When you replace the turbo if you are careful you will only lose a few ounces of coolant.. we also did the sensor relocation so we lost a little more. Between both changes I’d estimate it to be around 12 ounces. (I bring this up for a reason)

Because it’s supposed to be freezing cold this weekend we put the windshield back on. I had read somewhere that someone burped the radiator and added some super cool and hadn’t had any issues with overheating after that.

We ended up pouring 3/4 of a bottle of whatever redline calls their glycol mix and ALMOST AN ENTIRE JUG of coolant.. this thing was WAY LOW from the get go..

Final results are the car is making 36 lbs of boost at peak at 9,000 rpm at half to three quarter throttle..

That is a little too much boost and too much rpm. I asked Robby if I might have gotten a hot tune on accident or?? Upside is the car is crazy fast.. lol. Robby replied that it isn’t gonna live forever like that and to bring it in so they can see what’s what.

I’m guessing the clutch spring and removing all but two of the weights is responsible for the rpm. I’m looking for four weights to put back in it to solve that before the weekend (Ken took the weights with him) Speed will look at the boost deal.. could be a couple of different things.

The car is currently over at Morgan motorsports getting prepped for desert bash and I pick it up Friday.

I didn’t get a lot of time to drive it with the windshield on but my hopes are high that the coolant and super cool will solve or mitigate the overheating problem.. if it doesn’t I may add some spacers at the bottom again, and if that doesn’t work a rear windshield is coming next.

RD

Are you out the money for the push turbo? Or will Ken allow you to return it.

 

[4Waters]

Good info Dave. The use of studs on the exhaust housing is a much better idea.

Agreed but I still wouldn't trust it, I would have changed the bolts and saftey wired them.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Agreed but I still wouldn't trust it, I would have changed the bolts and saftey wired them.

View attachment 1310549

Usually lock washers and high quality nuts do the job, but that is also an option.

 

[monkeyswrench]

What material were/are the turbo bolts? Did they heat cycle and stretch? I've seen a lot of factory cars coming with titanium alloy type hardware, I assume for this reason.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

What material were/are the turbo bolts? Did they heat cycle and stretch? I've seen a lot of factory cars coming with titanium alloy type hardware, I assume for this reason.

Those bolts look to just have a plain washer on them.

 

[4Waters]

Usually lock washers and high quality nuts do the job, but that is also an option.

Yup but being a racecar guy like you I would make it near impossible to come loose with the heat cycling. IDK if the bed is plastic and if so that is a potential for fire.

 

[NIKAL]

I will say Speed has been absolutely great through this.. I went down there they handed me new heat shields, with no drama etc..

So now it’s the next day and I’m talking to Robby about something else and he asks me if I put one of Ken’s turbos on my car, so I tell him that I did.. he then basically says if I run the car with that turbo it’s gonna void the warranty because they had two cars develop problems after that turbo was installed..

No problem.. so now I trailer the car over to Eric Barkers house and Ken’s turbo comes out and the speed turbo goes in.. (that’s turbo number three in two days).

Speed also provided a relocation kit for a water temp sensor that we installed.

When Ken installed his turbo he used studs and 10mm nuts with lock washers etc to keep everything tight. Those were reused on the speed turbo instead of bolts.. I’d highly recommend doing this.

View attachment 1310507

Dave, what’s going to keep the exhaust studs from backing out? Or from keeping the nuts from coming loose? Any special lock washers being used?

I was thinking of maybe drilling and wire tying the bolts together?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Yup but being a racecar guy like you I would make it near impossible to come loose with the heat cycling. IDK if the bed is plastic and if so that is a potential for fire.

Yea agreed, and disassembly is definitely a concern down the road. Most of the studs I've ever used on turbos were a different alloy/coating. A little bit of anti seize, even if baked in there will probably work, for disassembly.

The safety wire keeps it locked down 100%.

Bed is plastic, but this car having the turbo in the back should reduce some of the fire risk. Can Ams and RZRs have turbos near the rear firewall.

 

[RiverDave]

Dave, what’s going to keep the exhaust studs from backing out? Or from keeping the nuts from coming loose? Any special lock washers being used?

I was thinking of maybe drilling and wire tying the bolts together?

Yes there are lock washers on them now.

 

[RiverDave]

Are you out the money for the push turbo? Or will Ken allow you to return it.

I didn’t ask I kept it as a spare for down the road.. I don’t expect you could return it if you ran it on the car though, even if it was only a few miles..

That’d be like returning a tampon that had only been in for a few minutes.. ya just don’t do it. lol