Speed UTV - discussion

[Icky]

Didn't see this suggested yet, your welcome.

 

[Terminal Velocity]

Didn't see this suggested yet, your welcome.
View attachment 1282687

In the front, or the back

 

[whiteworks]

At least once

Consumable

 

[Icky]

In the front, or the back

Yes

 

[whiteworks]

What CFM are the existing fans? Seems to me that bumping the CFM the fans are pushing is the path of least resistance here and will keep you within the envelope. Ideally you find a higher CFM fan that fits in the existing housing or convert your existing fans to 24V and spin them twice as fast.

I’ve done this on starters for high compression stuff that needed a little more ass to turn over. Those parts did become consumables for the greater good of racing, but I see the move here as modifying the fans.

Assuming that airflow is the problem

 

[hallett21]

Didn't see this suggested yet, your welcome.
View attachment 1282687

I was

It won’t nearly be enough.. in that pic we gapped the bottom of the windshield 3/4 of an inch and it wasn’t enough

My thought was 2-2” openings with forced air would be comparable to the 1/2”-3/4” opening on the windshield.

The 1/2”-3/4” windshield gap also is not “forced air”.

My thought process was to figure out how many “CFM” are required and then figure how to go from there.




I don’t know a thing about SXS’s. I’m just thinking of ways to add air.

 

[Racer56]

@RiverDave you should try some real deal Spal fans on the car. I bet it would be a big improvement than the Chinese copy fans the car comes with.

 

[hallett21]

It won’t nearly be enough.. in that pic we gapped the bottom of the windshield 3/4 of an inch and it wasn’t enough

So 2X 2” of pipe cfm vs the gap in the windshield is close. Gotta check my math but it seems like you need at least 1 inch on the gap of windshield, but they have no guarantee.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

DYNO and drag racing.
Maverick R made 211 WHP
Pro R made 171 WHP
Speed made 150 WHP - This is on gas, not E85. They get Speed key at 500 miles.

Maverick R beat the Speed 4 seat by 2.5 cars or so, and it beat the Pro R 4 seat by 1 car.

 

[dirtslinger2]

DYNO and drag racing.
Maverick R made 211 WHP
Pro R made 171 WHP
Speed made 150 WHP - This is on gas, not E85. They get Speed key at 500 miles.

Maverick R beat the Speed 4 seat by 2.5 cars or so, and it beat the Pro R 4 seat by 1 car.

If the dude driving the Speed wouldn't have been asleep at the wheel at the start, it would have been much closer, but still a loss.

I feel sorry for the guys that get a flat tire, they can't get any spares. Maybe the Can Am guys should switch over to Speed tires, JK.

I'm wondering about this traction control, when i drove mine in 2wd it was noticeably different then with it was in 4wd. I wonder if these guys didn't know how to get it out of 4wd, seem strange. i would think these guys weren't idiots and knew what they were doing. I also know they got the instructions on operating the car from Robby, cause they were with me during it at SSSS. Their first video about driving it in 1st, was a clue they might not know what they were doing

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

If the dude driving the Speed wouldn't have been asleep at the wheel at the start, it would have been much closer, but still a loss.

I feel sorry for the guys that get a flat tire, they can't get any spares. Maybe the Can Am guys should switch over to Speed tires, JK.

I'm wondering about this traction control, when i drove mine in 2wd it was noticeably different then with it was in 4wd. I wonder if these guys didn't know how to get it out of 4wd, seem strange. i would think these guys weren't idiots and knew what they were doing. I also know they got the instructions on operating the car from Robby, cause they were with me during it at SSSS. Their first video about driving it in 1st, was a clue they might not know what they were doing

Agree.. he was very lazy off the line, that’s where he lost the 2 cars. From the videos they do seem a little slow off the line. In the dirt that is probably meaningless. How does yours feel and how does the boost ramp in?

I don’t know why they were driving it around in first in the other video either lol.

If I bought a Maverick R I’d throw those stock wheels and tires in the trash the first hour. Those 16 inch wheels and tires are a huge liability. No one will ever have spares.

 

[dirtslinger2]

Agree.. he was very lazy off the line, that’s where he lost the 2 cars. From the videos they do seem a little slow off the line. In the dirt that is probably meaningless. How does yours feel and how does the boost ramp in?

I don’t know why they were driving it around in first in the other video either lol.

If I bought a Maverick R I’d throw those stock wheels and tires in the trash the first hour. Those 16 inch wheels and tires are a huge liability. No one will ever have spares.

I have never driven any other brand of SXS, so I can't really compare. I've driven lots of other things though.

Honestly the car felt like a 2 stroke when the boost kicked in. I'm not concerned with the power in the least bit, but I don't plan on drag racing on the street, or taking it to Glamis.

Really they should put all these things in 2wd and 4wd and do some dirt drag racing if a drag race is what people are looking for.

 

[dirtslinger2]

I got a response back from the Vent racing guys out of Utah regarding the rear window.

"It seems to work well, it forces a bunch of air in the rear of the car, and is keeping the hot air from recycling"

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I got a response back from the Vent racing guys out of Utah regarding the rear window.

"It seems to work well, it forces a bunch of air in the rear of the car, and is keeping the hot air from recycling"

Nice. That’s what we needed.

 

[RiverDave]

DYNO and drag racing.
Maverick R made 211 WHP
Pro R made 171 WHP
Speed made 150 WHP - This is on gas, not E85. They get Speed key at 500 miles.

Maverick R beat the Speed 4 seat by 2.5 cars or so, and it beat the Pro R 4 seat by 1 car.

So ya got one in 4wd
Ya got one with a giant car tire on it in the drag race..

I’m not sure I’d call this scientific testing here?

I get that shit happens but they couldn’t find a stock tire to test all this.. or just turn around and Debo them all in 4wd?

 

[outboard_256]

So ya got one in 4wd
Ya got one with a giant car tire on it in the drag race..

I’m not sure I’d call this scientific testing here?

I get that shit happens but they couldn’t find a stock tire to test all this.. or just turn around and Debo them all in 4wd?

They dented the stock rim. And with it being 6 bolt and 16" you can't just pull one from another car. They have one on order but it didn't come in before the dyno day. They didn't want to buy a whole new set of rims to replace the one broken stock one.

 

[dirtslinger2]

Any pics of this?

Look up Dekon Vent Racing on FB, he built a cage, and there are pictures of it with a rear window.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

So ya got one in 4wd
Ya got one with a giant car tire on it in the drag race..

I’m not sure I’d call this scientific testing here?

I get that shit happens but they couldn’t find a stock tire to test all this.. or just turn around and Debo them all in 4wd?

That was their 500+ HP Pro R for fun with the slicks.

They dyno tested them all the same day. Seems like a reasonable test.

The belt always runs weird on the dyno compared to a car with gears. For a 2500 lb car with 50 more HP to the ground across the entire power band I would have thought the Maverick would have freight trained..

It just jumped out a couple cars on the leave and appeared to stay there.

I could give 2 shits about a drag race in the street. I would like to see a roll race though. That will probably be more informative. The speed seems soft on the bottom end from a standing start. Even my regular Turbo RZR spins the tires in the street.

The Tapp clutch in the speed is also adjustable, There could be some tuning there

 

[Bigbore500r]

So ya got one in 4wd
Ya got one with a giant car tire on it in the drag race..

I’m not sure I’d call this scientific testing here?

I get that shit happens but they couldn’t find a stock tire to test all this.. or just turn around and Debo them all in 4wd?

Yea, alot of variables here for sure....

The HP thing is gonna matter for the sand guys - the real desert guys don't need more than what it has. If the car is hauling the mail as-is and the suspension is working, it's enough power. Adding another 150hp isn't gonna make it run thru the whoops any faster - but it is gonna make it eat more gas, break more shit, etc. It's never a question of horsepower, its what car stays together and can carry speed through the terrain

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Yea, alot of variables here for sure....

The HP thing is gonna matter for the sand guys - the real desert guys don't need more than what it has. If the car is hauling the mail as-is and the suspension is working, it's enough power. Adding another 150hp isn't gonna make it run thru the whoops any faster - but it is gonna make it eat more gas, break more shit, etc. It's never a question of horsepower, its what car stays together and can carry speed through the terrain

Speed key on E85 for the kids in the sandbox.

 

[evantwheeler]

Anyone having issues losing inner beads? Boss lost 2 yesterday wheeling in sand hollow. Has the speed 35’s on it. When he dismounted the 32 or 33’s it came with, the in er beads came off by just standing on the dismounted and aired down tire, he thought that was kind of odd, but didnt give it much more thought and figured with air in the tires it would keep the bead on. He was running 12 psi in them when they popped off yesterday, and both times were on hard impacts coming down a steep rock face decline.

Overall impression is they handle amazing off road. Shocks are dialed, there is no bounce in the car, it just settles immediately after a big hit. He has a big 4 seat Alumicraft sand car and said this thing is way better than his sand car from a suspension feel standpoint. He even said it drives better than his jeep on the road - he took it all the way up and through Zion from St George!

There are a lot of little things hes annoyed with, but nothing that is keeping him from using the car. He does not have a windshield and has zero issues with engine temps. Its not a good crawler at all, but he knows its not what they were designed to do.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Speed key on E85 for the kids in the sandbox.

Yep

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Anyone having issues losing inner beads? Boss lost 2 yesterday wheeling in sand hollow. Has the speed 35’s on it. When he dismounted the 32 or 33’s it came with, the in er beads came off by just standing on the dismounted and aired down tire, he thought that was kind of odd, but didnt give it much more thought and figured with air in the tires it would keep the bead on. He was running 12 psi in them when they popped off yesterday, and both times were on hard impacts coming down a steep rock face decline.

Overall impression is they handle amazing off road. Shocks are dialed, there is no bounce in the car, it just settles immediately after a big hit. He has a big 4 seat Alumicraft sand car and said this thing is way better than his sand car from a suspension feel standpoint. He even said it drives better than his jeep on the road - he took it all the way up and through Zion from St George!

There are a lot of little things hes annoyed with, but nothing that is keeping him from using the car. He does not hand a windshield and has zero issues with engine temps.

That’s good news. Are the inner barrels of the wheels coated? Maybe they need to be roughed up a bit?

 

[evantwheeler]

That’s good news. Are the inner barrels of the wheels coated? Maybe they need to be roughed up a bit?

He said there was very little lip on the wheel for the inner bead to seat onto. But, Im not sure that lip width matters as much as the precise diameters of it and tire bead. I’ve read of guys wrapping wheels with gorilla tape to help keep inner beads on, may help on these speed wheels. Probably not an issue if you keep the tires aired up, i havent read about any other issues with keeping tires on the wheels with these cars.

 

[dirtslinger2]

He said there was very little lip on the wheel for the inner bead to seat onto. But, Im not sure that lip width matters as much as the precise diameters of it and tire bead. I’ve read of guys wrapping wheels with gorilla tape to help keep inner beads on, may help on these speed wheels. Probably not an issue if you keep the tires aired up, i havent read about any other issues with keeping tires on the wheels with these cars.

I haven't heard of this on any cars either, there's been a couple flats, I wonder if this was the initial cause of the flat?

What other things is he annoyed with?

 

[evantwheeler]

I haven't heard of this on any cars either, there's been a couple flats, I wonder if this was the initial cause of the flat?

What other things is he annoyed with?

-Has had trouble getting front diff to lock offroad.

-Had a major stalling/dieing issue with the motor, but that event only seemed to happen in his garage at home. It stalled on him over 20 times in his shop when he was trying to turn the car around to load in his trailer.

-Speed gave him two wheels with TPS sensors when he didnt order any and it has an error warning on the screen because its only picking up 2 and not 4.

He put the wilwood kit and 35’s on before it had any miles, so no complaints about the brakes.

Similar to Daves comments on the 2 stroke like powerband, throttle control isnt great. Its not as precise and controllable as one would like it to be.

 

[dirtslinger2]

Has had trouble getting front diff to lock offroad. Had a major stalling/dieing issue with the motor, but that event only seemed to happen in his garage at home. It stalled on him over 20 times in his shop when he was trying to turn the car around to load in his trailer. Speed gave him two TPS sensors when he didnt order any and it has an error warning on the screen because its only picking up 2 and not 4.

He put the wilwood kit and 35’s on before it had any miles, so no complaints about the brakes.

Similar to Daves comments on the 2 stroke like powerband, throttle control isnt great. Its not as precise and controllable as one would like it to be.

Interesting, as it sounds like the TPS system was making it stall? Or maybe I read that wrong.

I didn't have any stalling issues with mine so far, wonder if it was up to temps.

The 2 stroke powerband I definitely feel, but I was able to get used to it a little, the first time I drove it, and was putting it on the trailer, I thought I was going to jump all the way over it and into the back of my truck.

 

[evantwheeler]

Interesting, as it sounds like the TPS system was making it stall? Or maybe I read that wrong.

I didn't have any stalling issues with mine so far, wonder if it was up to temps.

The 2 stroke powerband I definitely feel, but I was able to get used to it a little, the first time I drove it, and was putting it on the trailer, I thought I was going to jump all the way over it and into the back of my truck.

Sorry, i can see how that was confusing. I abbreviated Tire Pressure Sensor as TPS, which is commonly used to abbreviate throttle position sensor. Stalling issue was from unknown cause, and it hasnt happened again here in St George. The TPS issue i mentioned is for tire pressure sensor monitoring, they should have gave him two wheels without TPSM and he wouldnt have the error alert on his screen. The car was delivered with two wheels having the sensors, and two without. He didnt pay for the TPSM or whatever package includes that.

 

[Hammer]

Look up Dekon Vent Racing on FB, he built a cage, and there are pictures of it with a rear window.

This is a good looking car. you can see the rear plexi in this photo.. I may have to buy RD's second Speed

 

[dirtslinger2]

This is a good looking car. you can see the rear plexi in this photo.. I may have to buy RD's second Speed
View attachment 1283257

Thats the one, I hadn't seen this picture, it looks like that rear window has some little wings on the C-pillar as well

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You can see they put wings on the edge of their plexiglass window.. also not running window nets.. interesting

Those wings create more low pressure at the radiator exit. Looks like the car gas a plexi front windshield.

 

[Hammer]

That was their 500+ HP Pro R for fun with the slicks.

They dyno tested them all the same day. Seems like a reasonable test.

The belt always runs weird on the dyno compared to a car with gears. For a 2500 lb car with 50 more HP to the ground across the entire power band I would have thought the Maverick would have freight trained..

It just jumped out a couple cars on the leave and appeared to stay there.

I could give 2 shits about a drag race in the street. I would like to see a roll race though. That will probably be more informative. The speed seems soft on the bottom end from a standing start. Even my regular Turbo RZR spins the tires in the street.

The Tapp clutch in the speed is also adjustable, There could be some tuning there

I agree with you on drag racing in the streets.... Put the cars on a dirt/desert course with some small terrain and race them. Power is useless if you cant use it.

Is it possible the belt cars slip on the dyno when they put a load on it ?

 

[Hammer]

Anyone having issues losing inner beads? Boss lost 2 yesterday wheeling in sand hollow. Has the speed 35’s on it. When he dismounted the 32 or 33’s it came with, the in er beads came off by just standing on the dismounted and aired down tire, he thought that was kind of odd, but didnt give it much more thought and figured with air in the tires it would keep the bead on. He was running 12 psi in them when they popped off yesterday, and both times were on hard impacts coming down a steep rock face decline.

Overall impression is they handle amazing off road. Shocks are dialed, there is no bounce in the car, it just settles immediately after a big hit. He has a big 4 seat Alumicraft sand car and said this thing is way better than his sand car from a suspension feel standpoint. He even said it drives better than his jeep on the road - he took it all the way up and through Zion from St George!

There are a lot of little things hes annoyed with, but nothing that is keeping him from using the car. He does not have a windshield and has zero issues with engine temps. Its not a good crawler at all, but he knows its not what they were designed to do.

Great informative post!

 

[sandshark1]

So ya got one in 4wd
Ya got one with a giant car tire on it in the drag race..

I’m not sure I’d call this scientific testing here?

I get that shit happens but they couldn’t find a stock tire to test all this.. or just turn around and Debo them all in 4wd?

Most UTV tuners do not have 4 wheel dynos. They had to put the Speed in 4wd to trick the torque limiters. It would be interesting to see if the numbers change if the torque limiter programming is removed. Would not be surprised if RG or someone from Speed goes over there with a computer and removes it to let them dyno it in 2wd.

The Speed UTV hauls ass in the desert.

I have seen people put rear windscreens on their UTVs to help with the dust when they run a windshield. It would be worth trying to see if it helps with the temps. Just get some screen door mess and zip tie it to the rear window area and see if allows the radiator fans to get that air going through the radiator.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I agree with you on drag racing in the streets.... Put the cars on a dirt/desert course with some small terrain and race them. Power is useless if you cant use it.

Is it possible the belt cars slip on the dyno when they put a load on it ?

No, if the belt slips at anything over 10 mph it will burn up pretty quick. There is not much loss out of the belt system, but it is hard to load a dyno because the final drive ratio is always changing.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Most UTV tuners do not have 4 wheel dynos. They had to put the Speed in 4wd to trick the torque limiters. It would be interesting to see if the numbers change if the torque limiter programming is removed. Would not be surprised if RG or someone from Speed goes over there with a computer and removes it to let them dyno it in 2wd.

The Speed UTV hauls ass in the desert.

I have seen people put rear windscreens on their UTVs to help with the dust when they run a windshield. It would be worth trying to see if it helps with the temps. Just get some screen door mess and zip tie it to the rear window area and see if allows the radiator fans to get that air going through the radiator.

This car really looks like it has a torque limiting strategy built into the engine tune to protect the drivetrain.

 

[Hammer]

Those wings create more low pressure at the radiator exit. Looks like the car gas a plexi front windshield.

 

[sandshark1]

View attachment 1283262 View attachment 1283264

That is a good looking Speed car. They built a cage for it. That front windshield allows for airflow.

 

[Hammer]

That is a good looking Speed car. They built a cage for it. That front windshield allows for airflow.

I really like the stance and it looks awesome with the paddle tires and wheel combo. The more see them, the more I want one.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

View attachment 1283262 View attachment 1283264

If that thing isn't overheating in the sand... we are fine. Keep in mind this thing has no roof scoop.

 

[dirtslinger2]

If that thing isn't overheating in the sand... we are fine. Keep in mind this thing has no roof scoop.

Update from literally 5 minutes ago, he is still having overheating issues, he can run in the dunes 30-40mph, but when he really gets on it, at 90 degrees out, it's getting hot with or without the windshield.

 

[SoCalDave]

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Update from literally 5 minutes ago, he is still having overheating issues, he can run in the dunes 30-40mph, but when he really gets on it, at 90 degrees out, it's getting hot with or without the windshield.

So partial fix.. Interesting he's having issue without without the windshield.

I'm wondering if he added any ducting to make the airflow through the radiator more efficient when he had it all apart for the cage?

I'm also wondering if what he is done is enough for the dirt.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

View attachment 1283271

View attachment 1283269

View attachment 1283270

I'm thinking as you noted earlier, that the entire fan cover deal needs to be opened up and a open grill needs to be placed over top of the fans, instead of 3 D shaped holes.

Vent makes nice cages.

 

[Bpracing1127]

Update from literally 5 minutes ago, he is still having overheating issues, he can run in the dunes 30-40mph, but when he really gets on it, at 90 degrees out, it's getting hot with or without the windshield.

Didby Robby test in Glamis in august? When it was like 115 out? I’m sure he didn’t have a windshield. Why didn’t he have problems then?

something is not adding Up here

 

[dirtslinger2]

Didby Robby test in Glamis in august? When it was like 115 out? I’m sure he didn’t have a windshield. Why didn’t he have problems then?

something is not adding Up here

They had 2 cars out in Glamis in August, or maybe July, and they didn't advertise that they were having heating issues. They did not have a windshield

 

[Hammer]

Update from literally 5 minutes ago, he is still having overheating issues, he can run in the dunes 30-40mph, but when he really gets on it, at 90 degrees out, it's getting hot with or without the windshield.

Where is the info? FB ? I'd like to read up on what he's dooing.

 

[rivermobster]

View attachment 1283262 View attachment 1283264

St Anthony's?

That thing looks bad azz.

 

[dirtslinger2]

Where is the info? FB ? I'd like to read up on what he's dooing.

I'm messaging him, it's not on anything public

 

[Hammer]

I'm messaging him, it's not on anything public

It would be cool for him to chime in on here, looks like his cage shaved 20 lbs. I'd like to hear more on what he thinks the solution is, was it over paddled in the dunes? I read on his FB it seemed to have plenty of power (not a s much as his RZR, but it was modded) which makes the dyno YT kinda worthless drama...