Speed UTV - discussion

[Raffit78]

This shroud is completely sealed around the radiator. Pulls a ton of air. View attachment 1281103

I agree, it also seems like Speeds fans are sunken in the shroud which can cause some of that diversion to stay in rather then exit.

 

[rivermobster]

Maybe just remove the thing?

As someone else pointed out, it looks more decorative than functional.

 

[Deckin Around]

not sure if anyone has said this but i’d foil tape the radiators individually to the shroud and get rid of any gaps. Just to prevent hot air exiting from sucking back around into the front

 

[Icky]

Here's an example of a radiator behind the seats( not installed currently) and fuel tank on a Ls powered sand rail.

 

[Melloyellovector]

Under the decorative cover there is a fan shroud. Those are only 10in fans 800cfm ea, it’s basically same set up cbr makes for class 10 cars MAX 230hp rating on that radiator. That would be no bueno if you have the speed key running 300hp e85 tune.

Air flow into the cabin, front of car comparisons, mph speed taking over fan cfm is comparing apples to donuts. Front mount radiators versus rear mount interior behind seats are not the same

The air flow through radiator is completely dependent on fans drawing clean air thru it. If back of seat is close, floor is closed off, body blocks sides, clean air is only really coming from rear hot engine area to the headrest/seat back area. Radiator needs to go up and or back to create a cleaner air zone to pull from. Or a bigger radiator and fans for higher cfm. 6in taller radiator can fit 16in fans, 2 fans only will pull 5000cfm, doubling the cooling ability of current set up.

Or keep poking holes in your new car and I’ll keep watching , lol

 

[NIKAL]

So let me share what I know about aerodynamics, which is not much. First the duct on the Speed roof is not designed to draw air in for the radiator. Its sole purpose is to create a vacuum and reduce the negative pressure you get from the dash, footwell areas and windshield if running one. If you notice even Polaris & the Pro R don’t do a true full sealed door. That’s because having that gap in the door allows to suck the heat & negative pressure out from under the dash. When Robby built the Dakar XX SpeedCats. They cut holes in the hood in multiple areas to allow air in under the dash and reduce the heat and negative pressure.

Moving the roof duct forward to the top of the windshield will not force more air in the duct, unless the windshield is greatly laid back like on a sports car. Just the opposite will happen. People think the air will go up the windshield and forced in the duct. But what happens is the air actually swirls at the base of the windshield. Robby learned this the first year with the Dakar Gordini. The first year the roof duct was right above the windshield. That Dakar race they struggled with engine temp and water temp issues. They even drilled holes in the side window and made ducting during the event to get air in, and they still struggled. The OG Dakar Hummer had a roof duct, but it was for cabin pressure and not cooling.

Here’s the Gen 1 Gordini with the moved forward roof ducting.

On the Gen 2 Gordini they learned that moving the roof duct back actually put the roof duct into cleaner less turbulent air.

They also learned that the side windows needed to be used to evacuate air and not pull in air. Again you need to be able to create a vacuum and have a way to pull the air out. Notice which way the side windows are opened?

Also the Speed UTV roof duct would never draw air into the radiators as directly under the roof is the roll cage and the cage tubes are directly in the way of the duct and will disturb the air way before it ever reached the radiator. You would have to have an inner “headliner duct” directing the air right into the radiator grill for it to work.

Now the discussion about the radiator fans, and fan shroud. I have not looked at the current version as far as any shrouding on each end of the radiator & row of fans. But the fans previously were on the radiator fins sd acted as their own shroud. The “Shroud” or cover everyone is looking at for gaps is actually more of guard or housing to protect the radiator from being touched or hit. The original Speed radiator “Shroud” had a honeycomb like grill.

What Speed learned when doing the huge test track oval in China is that the grill actually restricted the air the fans could pull out. So they cut the honeycomb section out and the temperature dropped significantly. So they redesigned it like we see today with the three big holes. But remember it’s not an actual shroud, it’s just cover and part of the radiator enclosure.

I’d be more concerned if the gaps on the two ends of the radiator & housing are sealed to force the air through the radiator, and not around it inside the cover? Or is only the air directly in front of the fans being pulled through the radiator? Air will flow the least resistance and both ends of the radiator & housing need to be sealed so air can’t be allowed to get around the radiator and then out the rear vents? Might need to pull the radiator covers off and see what’s there?

Now when you add window nets with a windshield you force the negative air pressure bubble farther back behind the car and behind the radiator. Dave made comment about he feels the air pushing back through the rear window. He also tested and proved that air does not pass through the nets very well. Then adding the storage box and spare tire even can push the air even farther back, as it streamlines the bed area. The upper rear brake light on the roof can cause some turbulence back there too.

IMO the combo of the windshield and window nets is the primary issue with the over heating. I’m not sure you will be able to run both? You will lesson the negative pressure zone with the removal of the window nets if the windshield is on. And if the windshield is removed and nets on, it might even help create a wind tunnel effect as air will be forced directly back through the cab and not be exiting out the sides and around the passengers.

 

[fishing fool]

Are you the only one with a cooling issue?
Could it be a water pump issue or a blockage in the motor?

 

[EPL]

Are you the only one with a cooling issue?
Could it be a water pump issue or a blockage in the motor?

There are others on FB having the same problem .

 

[dirtslinger2]

The one I’ve seen does not cover that area.

The xtra thick skid plate on the rear covers the hitch pin hole, there is no way to get a pin in it without trimming the skid plate. I noticed it right away.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The xtra thick skid plate on the rear covers the hitch pin hole, there is no way to get a pin in it without trimming the skid plate. I noticed it right away.

I saw that too but my first thought was to just unbolt/ loosen the skid, throw a hook or ball in there in there with a low profile pin, bolt the skid back on and run it. I wouldn’t be taking off the tow hook ever personally.

If you were planning on changing it out often, yea, hack the skid.

Thinking something like this. Pop the shackle on when you need it. Leave the base in permanently.

 

[dirtslinger2]

I've read all of this thread.

I was having heat issues on my first ride, with a windshield and nets. It got hot within a couple miles. When i stopped I noticed that only one of my fans was working. The passenger fan appears to have an issue inside of the connection plug, so maybe a loose pin. When I wiggle the plug, it will come on and turn off. My center fan, we could not get to work at all.

As far as the plastic "cover" over the fans themselves, it's a rather large singular piece, it goes from the top of the bed, over the top of the radiator, and down behind the seats, so it's not as easy as just pulling that cover off.

Since I was digging around in this area of the radiator, I can tell you, the fans are pretty tight against the radiator, so I don't think much air is escaping there, and the fan blades are super tight on the shroud, like about the thickness of a zip tie.

The ends of the radiator, are not sealed off at all, you can shove your hand down behind that cover, and feel the ends of the radiator, I know, cause I was in there trying to get the plugs sorted out.

LIke it's been mentioned, there are other owners talking about heat issues with the windshield on. Speed has been talking about the windshield for a long time and telling people that it doesn't work at temps over 80, so it should be no surprise, I knew it going in.
When I picked up my car, I asked the Engineer about it, and he said, if I just cruise the windshield should be OK, and if I got water temps in the 212-215 range, I should let it cool down. I got to those temps much sooner that I thought, and I was just cruising it. I actually just assumed it was because of my fans because I could seem to tell when the 2nd fan would loose it's connection. The temps seemed to hold around 190ish, and then immediately start rising, and we would stop and find only the 1 fan running.

I'll be following along here, as my wife really wants a windshield, and not goggles or a helmet.

 

[dirtslinger2]

I saw that too but my first thought was to just unbolt/ loosen the skid, throw a hook or ball in there in there with a low profile pin, bolt the skid back on and run it. I wouldn’t be taking off the tow hook ever personally.

If you were planning on changing it out often, yea, hack the skid.

Thinking something like this. Pop the shackle on when you need it. Leave the base in permanently.

View attachment 1281352

Thats a good option, I don't ever see towing anything with it, but it is a perfect Tow strap point.

 

[hallett21]

Im sure airflow is a large part of the equation but it seems like everyone having heat problems is describing the same 190-200 degree temp with a spike “out of no where”.

Wouldn’t that indicate a fan, coolant/radiator/thermostat issue? Otherwise shouldn’t the temp rise linearly and not spike?

 

[outboard_256]

Im sure airflow is a large part of the equation but it seems like everyone having heat problems is describing the same 190-200 degree temp with a spike “out of no where”.

Wouldn’t that indicate a fan, coolant/radiator/thermostat issue? Otherwise shouldn’t the temp rise linearly and not spike?

My guess is once you get a certain speed the air flow is out of the radiator and that's when you get your spike. Maybe it's good up till 45 mph and at 50 mph the radiator isn't seeing air flow then it will spike. I don't expect a linear heat curve when you are trying to trouble shoot aerodynamics in a rear radiator car. Maybe if the radiator was in the front.

 

[Dalton]

I've read all of this thread.

I was having heat issues on my first ride, with a windshield and nets. It got hot within a couple miles. When i stopped I noticed that only one of my fans was working. The passenger fan appears to have an issue inside of the connection plug, so maybe a loose pin. When I wiggle the plug, it will come on and turn off. My center fan, we could not get to work at all.

As far as the plastic "cover" over the fans themselves, it's a rather large singular piece, it goes from the top of the bed, over the top of the radiator, and down behind the seats, so it's not as easy as just pulling that cover off.

Since I was digging around in this area of the radiator, I can tell you, the fans are pretty tight against the radiator, so I don't think much air is escaping there, and the fan blades are super tight on the shroud, like about the thickness of a zip tie.

The ends of the radiator, are not sealed off at all, you can shove your hand down behind that cover, and feel the ends of the radiator, I know, cause I was in there trying to get the plugs sorted out.

LIke it's been mentioned, there are other owners talking about heat issues with the windshield on. Speed has been talking about the windshield for a long time and telling people that it doesn't work at temps over 80, so it should be no surprise, I knew it going in.
When I picked up my car, I asked the Engineer about it, and he said, if I just cruise the windshield should be OK, and if I got water temps in the 212-215 range, I should let it cool down. I got to those temps much sooner that I thought, and I was just cruising it. I actually just assumed it was because of my fans because I could seem to tell when the 2nd fan would loose it's connection. The temps seemed to hold around 190ish, and then immediately start rising, and we would stop and find only the 1 fan running.

I'll be following along here, as my wife really wants a windshield, and not goggles or a helmet.

I think you’re the first person to mention the possibility of the fans not working right lol….

 

[Dalton]

Also with fans, if only 1 or 2 are functional it can draw air through the non functional fan opening and make it spin, it’ll be drawing air through that fan opening in stead of the radiator, but the fan will be spinning looking like it’s working

 

[dirtslinger2]

Also with fans, if only 1 or 2 are functional it can draw air through the non functional fan opening and make it spin, it’ll be drawing air through that fan opening in stead of the radiator, but the fan will be spinning looking like it’s working

When my 1 working fan is running the other fans do not spin, also when both are running, the center fan doesn't spin. It's obvious when they are on, you can hear them, and feel the air pushing out the back.

 

[Melloyellovector]

When multiple fans used. They are not normally wired to be all on / off
normally configuration would be like fan 1 triggers at say 185, fan 2 at say 190, fan 3 at 192. So seeing fans not on unless you’re in the trigger point temp range won’t happen. If all 3 are not turning on beyond 200 temps. Could be connection, could be bad relay, could be bad program not triggering or temp sets too high to recover, etc..
temps spiking quick beyond 190 is common if fans / radiator size can’t keep up, once your at that temp 190 to 200 plus happens in seconds.

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

Probably not a good idea, but some disco computer gaming fans may work pretty well to provide some air flow.

 

[hallett21]

When multiple fans used. They are not normally wired to be all on / off
normally configuration would be like fan 1 triggers at say 185, fan 2 at say 190, fan 3 at 192. So seeing fans not on unless you’re in the trigger point temp range won’t happen. If all 3 are not turning on beyond 200 temps. Could be connection, could be bad relay, could be bad program not triggering or temp sets too high to recover, etc..
temps spiking quick beyond 190 is common if fans / radiator size can’t keep up, once your at that temp 190 to 200 plus happens in seconds.

Are they usually just on and off or do they have a speed control as well?

 

[Joe mama]

And now we have some good R&D.

 

[RVRKID]

Are you the only one with a cooling issue?
Could it be a water pump issue or a blockage in the motor

Just saw this on FB

Most of the needed add ons were done by speed but this car needed that Hi-viz yellow 1Life Trauma Kits before we hit the dirt.
1st drive review:
Pros: The car runs great, it's got plenty of power, suspension feels great, the interior is spacious and I love the amount of info provided on the dash!
Cons: The brakes are extremely soft, I'm hoping once they go through some cycles and break in that they are substantially better, the roof has a super loud shudder in the center/front over 60mph, and I'm not sure if the cooling system needs to be bled or burped but it gets hot pretty quick while in the dirt (street driving it was fine) gonna remove the windshield and see if that helps. I'm pretty hopeful that once the minor kinks are worked out it will be a real fun car!

 

[4Waters]

What about cutting a couple inches off the top of the windshield

 

[arch stanton]

If you want to try cutting the windshield down, cheap to experiment with a plastic one

E85 may help with overheating at moderate speed but not making more HP than you do with gas, the alcohol has a cooling effect
Back in the day a friend of mine ran a VW with no fan in a buggy with 100% alcohol

 

[NIKAL]

Something else that would be a cheap way to lower temps could be a coolant additive. Since VP is the official lubricant of Speed UTV, maybe we should try VP’s Stay Frosty or VP Cool Down. These coolent additives claim water temp reductions up to 30 degrees. 15-20 degree reduction with just an additive would be huge!

I have a Hummer H3 Alpha with the 5.3 V8. One of the issues the Alpha had is they have the same radiator as the standard 3.7 I5 engine that came in the H3. This causes them to run hotter. I have Royal Purple Ice in my system and I can say it works as I’ve never had a cooling issue. Cruises at 195-197 degrees all day.

So maybe looking at a coolant additive and sealing off the open voids on each side of the radiator in the housing would help, or fix the higher temp issues?

 

[Bullhead bully]

Ahhh. Got it

I believe it’s a problem they definitely need to address because we really like running with windshields out here. I know almost everyone I run with has them as well.

The offset will be when you need the windshield the air temp will probably be 30 to 40° cooler.
That will definitely help cooling

 

[Melloyellovector]

Are they usually just on and off or do they have a speed control as well?

Just on or off. But fans typically have crazy amp draws. bigger fans need 40amps to stay happy. So they’re wired to turn on at different temps. Plus first fan in cool temps will maintain. Run hard or air temps hot, fan 2 / 3 turn on to drop back to happy zone. If they all just came on same time and remained on. Normal cars would drop to 160 range or lower and would just constant cycle hot cold hot cold.
‘it’s basically a math equation for motor X size/fuel consumption / hp. Creates Y amount of heat = required radiator and fan size. Only way that changes is the environment the radiator is in. Like front/side/rear, air flow natural or by fan only.
By the looks of the whats going on R+D said mathematically yes it works, and in open body car it may very well work. Enclosed body or running on e85 300hp range its undersized and or needs to be re located. maybe I’m wrong, but I’m usually right, lol

 

[arch stanton]

I hooked up a variable speed fan controller on my sand car because the fans were too loud and cycled constantly
This worked out well as the 2 fans at about 50% are much quieter than 1 fan or 2 at 100% and still keep the temps down when cruising around but step up automatically when needed

 

[rivrrts429]

They didn't have windshields installed on them.

This is correct

 

[NIKAL]

Can’t loosen screws and drop the skid?

I’m putting a pin in the thing 1 time. If you are gonna switch from a ball to a tow hook.. for sure hack it.

I’m probably using this. Curt Anti Rattle hitch pin kit.

View attachment 1281786

It’s only an issue for the thicker skid so why not just just trim the skid plate, then you can install or pull the pin anytime you want?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

It’s only an issue for the thicker skid so why not just just trim the skid plate, then you can install or pull the pin anytime you want?

If that’s what you want to do, perfect.

I don’t bolt a tow hook on my car when I need it. I leave it on so I don’t have to mess with it when I have bigger problems.

 

[Bpracing1127]

Dave, how is the steering. Seems to be hit or miss on the feedback into the wheel? Shifting?

 

[Dunerking]

Dave, how is the steering. Seems to be hit or miss on the feedback into the wheel? Shifting?

My neighbor took his out yesterday and asked him how it was and if he had any heating and braking issues. He said the car was great and the only standout was feedback through the steering wheel.

 

[joecfd1]

I just ran across this. Is it old news?

 

[rivermobster]

I just ran across this. Is it old news?

View attachment 1281979

Is this legit??

 

[joecfd1]

Is this legit??

Dunno…

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The first real comparison is coming real soon. These guys picked up a Speed and a Maverick R last week. They have a Pro R and Turbo R already and have their own area with a track.

 

[SJP]

I had a chance to ride and check out @RiverDave ‘s Speed car yesterday. We had 3 fullsize guys and my son 750 lbs total of people. The car is legit. Performed very well over wash ruts, whoops, ruff terrain. We took a quick ride from old London Bridge Rd. up to Landfill. It handled well, suspension was great, and felt like power was more than adequate. No need to shift constantly. With the car loaded up and 100 degrees no overheating or issues. My friend that is 1800 on list was relieved after checking out. RD let him take it for a spin around the block. I would not hesitate to get one. If I was early buyer pricing I would keep it. Thanks again RD for giving us a ride.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Not sure how 4 seater vs 2 works out.. I’d imagine the 4 is gonna handle whoops, high speed turning etc better.. but just being smaller and lighter the two seaters will dominate accelerating and stopping etc..

It does not work out, but it will be the best we have for now. The wheelbase of both 2 seaters is close to the speed 4 seater.

Comparing all the 4 seaters, the Speed 4 seater will have several of those advantages. We have already seen in the last head to head video by Chupacabra.

 

[ZSTIV]

My neighbor took his out yesterday and asked him how it was and if he had any heating and braking issues. He said the car was great and the only standout was feedback through the steering wheel.

Which there is a solid "fix" for and has already been implemented into a car.
Seems like its fixes all feedback issues.

 

[NIKAL]

Which there is a solid "fix" for and has already been implemented into a car.
Seems like its fixes all feedback issues.

It has?

 

[ZSTIV]

It has?

Yes, talk to Rick Brown.

 

[NIKAL]

Yes, talk to Rick Brown.

Sorry I re-read your first post. I thought you meant it was implemented in all cars. I guess I need to wear my glasses!

Yes Rick and tested it on his Baja trip and it fixes the feedback issue. He said it was a day/night improvement, and will install on both of his cars. I’m hoping it becomes a standard part of the Speed UTV and not an accessory.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Sorry I re-read your first post. I thought you meant it was implemented in all cars. I guess I need to wear my glasses!

Yes Rick and tested it on his Baja trip and it fixes the feedback issue. He said it was a day/night improvement, and will install on both of his cars. I’m hoping it becomes a standard part of the Speed UTV and not an accessory.

It will as they move through assembly is what I have heard.

 

[n2otoofast4u]

It will as they move through assembly is what I have heard.

Ashley what number are you?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Ashley what number are you?

497 & 1010.

Todd is/was the GM of Hawk Performance brake pads.

There have been brake pad changes with the OE calipers in testing and the cars will lock up all 4 tires on pavement. This was on Speeds Facebook feed.

Fixing the brake performance should be pretty straightforward, assuming it’s not a caliper flex problem or basic hydraulic ratio problem.

If it isn’t those, it just needs a more aggressive pad conpound. In the early tests the cars were not even locking the wheels and the testers said they could smell the brakes. To me that is a dead giveaway that the pads need to be a different and more aggressive compound. You should not be cooking the brakes under those conditions.

 

[n2otoofast4u]

497 & 1010.

Todd is/was the GM of Hawk Performance brake pads.

There have been brake pad changes with the OE calipers in testing and the cars will lock up all 4 tires on pavement. This was on Speeds Facebook feed.

Fixing the brake performance should be pretty straightforward, assuming it’s not a caliper flex problem or basic hydraulic ratio problem.

If it isn’t those, it just needs a more aggressive pad conpound. In the early tests the cars were not even locking the wheels and the testers said they could smell the brakes. To me that is a dead giveaway that the pads need to be a different and more compound. You should not be cooking the brakes under those conditions.

I have anxiety for you waiting for you to get the damn car! Gotta give credit, you’ve kept a strong belief in the car despite the hate.

 

[evantwheeler]

Yes, talk to Rick Brown.

Is it a secret? Details on the fix?

 

[dirtslinger2]

Is it a secret? Details on the fix?

Rick hasn't given too much detail on what it is, it's some sort of electric dampener, his fabricator made it, but they are sharing it with Speed to see if they are interested in making it, and offering it up.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I have anxiety for you waiting for you to get the damn car! Gotta give credit, you’ve kept a strong belief in the car despite the hate.

The people without cars have made an entirely bigger deal out of it than the people waiting for cars. I've never been that worried about it. If the cars suck, I will sell them, be money ahead, and buy something else.

If the only fixes these really need is some air management upgrades in and out of the radiator, and some brake fixes, these cars will be a slam dunk.