Speed cars hit the assembly Line

[Singleton]

I don’t believe that either. That is a CA problem not a Speed problem.

No, that is a Speed problem. If you can’t sell in the largest market you are F’d.
If you have a deposit holder who say ‘No’ to being skipped, that could open a huge liability.

Also while CARB can limit sales, it can also stop cars from being used in the state (current rulings are heading in that direction). Whoever is the money behind this operation could stay no more production runs until that is solved. No CA sales and this Operation is closed before it opens

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

I don’t believe that either. That is a CA problem not a Speed problem.

Actually quite the opposite.
California does not need Speed UTV.
Speed UTV does need California.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

No, that is a Speed problem. If you can’t sell in the largest market you are F’d.
If you have a deposit holder who say ‘No’ to being skipped, that could open a huge liability.

Also while CARB can limit sales, it can also stop cars from being used in the state (current rulings are heading in that direction). Whoever is the money behind this operation could stay no more production runs until that is solved. No CA sales and this Operation is closed before it opens

We just had this same roundy round of conjecture with the EPA cert, and then magically they got the rubber stamp.

The same applies here, just CA is slower and dependent on the EPA.
They have already passed all the tests.. they are just waiting on bureaucrats in CA to issue the CARB certification.

None of those regulations are even a thing yet.. and are nearly unenforceable.

 

[WhatExit?]

You know I can get the idea that LOF can be annoying with the non stop arguing... but seriously take a look at the flip side of the coin here.. This is just arguing for the sake of arguing.

RD

LOF’s example of startups is Tucker. You know how many startups have failed even after product is on the market?

When the cars are in buyers’ hands and the market has assessed their value and it’s competitive - that’s when Speed is a successful company.

Until then it’s LOF posting incessantly touting the cars and company

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Actually quite the opposite.
California does not need Speed UTV.
Speed UTV does need California.

They don’t need CA to begin deliveries to people in the other 49 free states

Just like a Polaris started delivering Turbo cars in 49 states before they delivered them to CA.

 

[buck35]

LOF’s example of startups is Tucker. You know how many startups have failed even after product is on the market?

When the cars are in buyers’ hands and the market has assessed their value and it’s competitive - that’s when Speed is a successful company.

Until then it’s LOF posting incessantly touting the cars and company

Or fail...
I sincerely hope for all rhe bag holders this works out, but it looks worse by the day.ⁿ

 

[DLC]

You would think for $28,000 there would be a SHIT load of 2 seater RZR PRO R’s out running around….

why even comment on a unicorn …. unseen / un delivered Speed car when you can buy the PRO R

for under $30,000

Shoot need a 4 seater just buy 2 PRO R’s for what $28,000 x2 = $52,000 plus tax / lic

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

They don’t need CA to begin deliveries to people in the other 49 free states

Just like a Polaris started delivering Turbo cars in 49 states before they delivered them to CA.

A certain Sesame Street song comes to mind here.

One of these things is not like the other...

Sing along now.

 

[LGETT]

Well not exactly interest free since the price of the cars went up 11k?

Did the price lock with your deposit at that time?

If so it's an interest free loan to RG as stated.

 

[riverroyal]

We just had this same roundy round of conjecture with the EPA cert, and then magically they got the rubber stamp.

The same applies here, just CA is slower and dependent on the EPA.
They have already passed all the tests.. they are just waiting on bureaucrats in CA to issue the CARB certification.

None of those regulations are even a thing yet.. and are nearly unenforceable.

How does one know all this info but nobody knows how many are ready to ship and from what country?
Where’s the assembly line? Why is this a mystery? If these are shipping in ‘weeks or months’ where the picture of 50, 20, 15 ready to go? Shouldn’t there we be a factory full of cars to ship? Then a line running continuously to get 16000 done? Or even 2500 done.
As we have all read, the design is done.

It just doesn’t add up.

 

[WhatExit?]

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

How does one know all this info but nobody knows how many are ready to ship and from what country?
Where’s the assembly line? Why is this a mystery? If these are shipping in ‘weeks or months’ where the picture of 50, 20, 15 ready to go? Shouldn’t there we be a factory full of cars to ship? Then a line running continuously to get 16000 done? Or even 2500 done.
As we have all read, the design is done.

It just doesn’t add up.

How does one know all this?
One doesn't.
LOF on the other hand makes wide ranging assumptions and presents them as facts.
When those assumptions turn out to be wrong, he deflects, denies, edits or simply states that he expected it to be the case all along.
After all, he's fine waiting up to 10 years to get his discounted car.

It's all a "you" problem as only the people with NO interest or NO knowledge are the one's commenting on the shortcomings of Speed.
EVERYONE with a deposit is fine with the status quo.

No, it's not an interest free loan to a couple of rich guys. With all the money he's out of pocket, he's actually "money ahead".
Just ask 1Carl who by some accounts is so far "money ahead" he's actually losing everything including his marriage. (I honestly hope that's not true).

 

[JDKRXW]

Shouldn’t there we be a factory full of cars to ship?

It just doesn’t add up.

This - is actually one of the worst things that can happen to RG.
If they're not shipping immediately after the car is completed - there's either something big that's wrong with the car -- or someone (ie the factory owner) is not getting paid.

 

[Eliminator21vdrive]

God Damn!!!! 106 pages of neighsayers bull shit ! I would like to se any one of you MF ers pull off what he has in the time frame!

Admitted he has posted some updates that may have been premature but for fuck snakes he is trying to give real updates on a real product and I think that is about as transparent as it can be.

I cant imagine the difficulty involved with supply chains, manufacturing set up and changing directions as new opportunities present themselves ...

Step back and look at the largest picture!

 

[Bpracing1127]

God Damn!!!! 106 pages of neighsayers bull shit ! I would like to se any one of you MF ers pull off what he has in the time frame!

Admitted he has posted some updates that may have been premature but for fuck snakes he is trying to give real updates on a real product and I think that is about as transparent as it can be.

I cant imagine the difficulty involved with supply chains, manufacturing set up and changing directions as new opportunities present themselves ...

Step back and look at the largest picture!

You don’t think the rest of the world is going through the same problems and have functioning business ? Give me a break. The car has been completed for over a year now. Supply chains should have been figured out. I work in supply chain for a large defense prime contractor. People get fired for shit like this. We call these companies garage shops. They have no clue what they are doing and people at the top have no clue too

 

[Eliminator21vdrive]

You don’t think the rest of the world is going through the same problems and have functioning business ? Give me a break. The car has been completed for over a year now. Supply chains should have been figured out. I work in supply chain for a large defense prime contractor. People get fired for shit like this. We call these companies garage shops. They have no clue what they are doing and people at the top have no clue too

So you are saying that he should have the same amount of business history and experience as a large defense contractor? O.K. .....

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You don’t think the rest of the world is going through the same problems and have functioning business ? Give me a break. The car has been completed for over a year now. Supply chains should have been figured out. I work in supply chain for a large defense prime contractor. People get fired for shit like this. We call these companies garage shops. They have no clue what they are doing and people at the top have no clue too

Then why did it take Polaris just as long to get the Pro R out? Literally around 3 years.

And they were not starting from scratch, and starting an entire brand at the same time.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You don’t think the rest of the world is going through the same problems and have functioning business ? Give me a break. The car has been completed for over a year now. Supply chains should have been figured out. I work in supply chain for a large defense prime contractor. People get fired for shit like this. We call these companies garage shops. They have no clue what they are doing and people at the top have no clue too

Then why did it take Polaris just as long to get the Pro R out? Literally 3 years. Who got fired for that one?

And Speed was not starting from scratch, and not launching an entire brand at the same time.

How long was Tesla around before bringing a electric Lotus to market?…. 6 years.

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

God Damn!!!! 106 pages of neighsayers bull shit ! I would like to se any one of you MF ers pull off what he has in the time frame!

Admitted he has posted some updates that may have been premature but for fuck snakes he is trying to give real updates on a real product and I think that is about as transparent as it can be.

I cant imagine the difficulty involved with supply chains, manufacturing set up and changing directions as new opportunities present themselves ...

Step back and look at the largest picture!

Fuck snakes?

I will say those do sound scary.

And I haven't seen anyone speak like a horse. Or did you mean naysayers?

 

[Eliminator21vdrive]

Fuck snakes?

I will say those do sound scary.

And I haven't seen anyone speak like a horse. Or did you mean naysayers?

Thank you for correcting me and not having one thing to say about content. We need more of this in the thread.

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

Thank you for correcting me and not having one thing to say about content. We need more of this in the thread.

You're welcome.
I'm a helper by nature.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

So you are saying that he should have the same amount of business history and experience as a large defense contractor? O.K. .....

Established in 1988, HISUN Motors began manufacturing spare motorcycle parts in a tiny garage and has since grown into one of the largest manufacturers of powersports vehicles in the world.

HiSun isn't new to the market...and they are supposedly the ones building this deal.

 

[Bpracing1127]

So you are saying that he should have the same amount of business history and experience as a large defense contractor? O.K. .....

Yep, pretty easy to hire the right people!!!

The timeline isn’t the problem as LOF points out. It’s the over promise under deliver that is the problem. Again garage shop mantra

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Yep, pretty easy to hire the right people!!!

The timeline isn’t the problem as LOF points out. It’s the over promise under deliver that is the problem. Again garage shop mantra

Then here is the question on one ever answers.

Why is everyone else more concerned about it than the several people here with actual cars?

Speed didn’t promise you anything, they promised me and the others with deposits something.

We want the best car possible with the design, time and resources given. We have taken the risk here, not the unwashed masses whining to see the car.

You are going to need to pick a side here. Either it’s a garage shop and the cars are being hand built, or it’s a Hisun assembly line. It isn’t both. Only one of those options allows them fulfill orders at the frequency and price point needed.

 

[Bpracing1127]

Then here is the question on one ever answers.

Why is everyone else more concerned about it than the several people here with actual cars?

Speed didn’t promise you anything, they promised me and the others with deposits something.

We want the best car possible with the design, time and resources given. We have taken the risk here, not the unwashed masses whining to see the car.

You are going to need to pick a side here. Either it’s a garage shop and the cars are being hand built, or it’s a Hisun assembly line. It isn’t both. Only one of those options allows them fulfill orders at the frequency and price point needed.

They don’t need to promise me anything, they are promising the market.

Agree that Hisun needs to build to meet demand but that won’t happen if they keep acting like a garage shop

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

They don’t need to promise me anything, they are promising the market.

Agree that Hisun needs to build to meet demand but that won’t happen if they keep acting like a garage shop

I agree, and would add that they are promising customers first before the market. They have spent near $0 marketing this thing and the market is on fire with love, hate, and anticipation for it. They said repeatedly the first 1000 cars are their marketing budget. They are a loss leader. They can’t afford a big bungle with failures early on. If they are hand assembling the first runs.. who cares? Everyone is smart enough to realize that is not a long term solution.

You’ve got wanna be customers here lined up waiting for it to debut before they make a decision on purchasing a SXS. Are they that worried they will buy the wrong product? Is it FOMO? Are they worried their neighbor will show up with one of these that might be better after they buy something else?

Does it really matter when 90% of the time for 90% of the owners these just bump down a dirt road at 20-30 mph to a bar with the lights and stereo on?

 

[DLC]

We are NOT going to get this thread to 200 pages w/ rational thinking and common sense !!

who runs nitrogen in their sxs tires?

asking for a friend

 

[Todd Mohr]

We are NOT going to get this thread to 200 pages w/ rational thinking and common sense !!

who runs nitrogen in their sxs tires?

asking for a friend

Are you saying 200 pages before a car is delivered?

 

[Bpracing1127]

We are NOT going to get this thread to 200 pages w/ rational thinking and common sense !!

who runs nitrogen in their sxs tires?

asking for a friend

Lol am I the friend?

 

[Singleton]

I agree, and would add that they are promising customers first before the market. They have spent near $0 marketing this thing and the market is on fire with love, hate, and anticipation for it. They said repeatedly the first 1000 cars are their marketing budget. They are a loss leader. They can’t afford a big bungle with failures early on. If they are hand assembling the first runs.. who cares? Everyone is smart enough to realize that is not a long term solution.

You’ve got wanna be customers here lined up waiting for it to debut before they make a decision on purchasing a SXS. Are they that worried they will buy the wrong product? Is it FOMO? Are they worried their neighbor will show up with one of these that might be better after they buy something else?

Does it really matter when 90% of the time for 90% of the owners these just bump down a dirt road at 20-30 mph to a bar with the lights and stereo on?

If the loss on the first 1000 are being classified as marketing and you have apx 3000 confirmed deposit holders (that was stated in this thread) and apx 12k dealer orders (they usually don’t pay deposits - would be a huge exception to the normal dealer process), the break even point has to be stressing the books.

In most cases manufactures require payment in full before units are released for delivery.
To add fuel to the fire, does the speed bank have the cash to pay the manufacture invoice on the car, plus all the accessories that had to be ordered and paid for.

And stop comparing to Tesla.

• The CyberTruck was announced in 2019, with manufacturing targeted in 2022. Now delayed to 2023. $100 refundable deposit and nothing due until delivery.
• Speed - announced 2019, said delivery 2020 (changed the car design after accepting deposits), delayed until 2022(3). Deposits of 1500 (non-refundable), plus some had to pre-pay your accessories over 6 months ago.

 

[DLC]

Are you saying 200 pages before a car is delivered?

That’s the spirit!

2 weeks!

 

[counterpart7]

Then here is the question on one ever answers.

Why is everyone else more concerned about it than the several people here with actual cars?

Speed didn’t promise you anything, they promised me and the others with deposits something.

We want the best car possible with the design, time and resources given. We have taken the risk here, not the unwashed masses whining to see the car.

You are going to need to pick a side here. Either it’s a garage shop and the cars are being hand built, or it’s a Hisun assembly line. It isn’t both. Only one of those options allows them fulfill orders at the frequency and price point needed.

Because they can be concerned with whatever they want to be concerned with. Maybe they are future/potential buyers?

Why are you more concerned about other people being concerned than they are actually concerned?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

If the loss on the first 1000 are being classified as marketing and you have apx 3000 confirmed deposit holders (that was stated in this thread) and apx 12k dealer orders (they usually don’t pay deposits - would be a huge exception to the normal dealer process), the break even point has to be stressing the books.

In most cases manufactures require payment in full before units are released for delivery.
To add fuel to the fire, does the speed bank have the cash to pay the manufacture invoice on the car, plus all the accessories that had to be ordered and paid for.

And stop comparing to Tesla.

• The CyberTruck was announced in 2019, with manufacturing targeted in 2022. Now delayed to 2023. $100 refundable deposit and nothing due until delivery.
• Speed - announced 2019, said delivery 2020 (changed the car design after accepting deposits), delayed until 2022(3). Deposits of 1500 (non-refundable), plus some had to pre-pay your accessories over 6 months ago.

That assumes you know the arrangements between Speed and Hisun. They could be partially or fully backing the project. There could be other investors. You don’t know, I don’t know.

How about this, I will not stop comparing them to Tesla if you can name a car they made aside from the Model Y that came out on time, that delivered the range originally claimed at the price point originally claimed.

You rail against over promising and under delivering, yet Tesla does that consistently, in nearly every model they have come out with. If you could give Tesla $1500 for a 30% discount on your CyberTruck order, you would in a heartbeat.

Hell, you were an Ultra Boats cheerleader for years of over/undering.

 

[Canuck 1]

Then here is the question on one ever answers.

Why is everyone else more concerned about it than the several people here with actual cars?

Speed didn’t promise you anything, they promised me and the others with deposits something.

We want the best car possible with the design, time and resources given. We have taken the risk here, not the unwashed masses whining to see the car.

You are going to need to pick a side here. Either it’s a garage shop and the cars are being hand built, or it’s a Hisun assembly line. It isn’t both. Only one of those options allows them fulfill orders at the frequency and price point needed.

At this point it isn't either as no cars are being delivered, just empty promises

 

[Singleton]

That assumes you know the arrangements between Speed and Hisun. They could be partially or fully backing the project. There could be other investors. You don’t know, I don’t know.

How about this, I will not stop comparing them to Tesla if you can name a car they made aside from the Model Y that came out on time, that delivered the range originally claimed at the price point originally claimed.

You rail against over promising and under delivering, yet Tesla does that consistently, in nearly every model they have come out with. If you could give Tesla $1500 for a 30% discount on your CyberTruck order, you would in a heartbeat.

Hell, you were an Ultra Boats cheerleader for years of over/undering.

Name me a time JW over promised / under delivered when he owned Ultra and controlled the build beginning to end. Don’t count those hulls sold to another company and then rigged (saw the lawsuits JW had on that BS).

While I did support Rusty when he purchased the Ultra molds and name, you can go search and see I finally called him out and stopped that when the over promise / under deliver BS started again after Andrew left the shop for ICB.

As for Tesla, if the truck does not meet the requirements stated when announced, I will walk and get my $100 back without having to deal with selling my spot and trying to break even

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Name me a time JW over promised / under delivered when he owned Ultra and controlled the build beginning to end. Don’t count those hulls sold to another company and then rigged (saw the lawsuits JW had on that BS).

While I did support Rusty when he purchased the Ultra molds and name, you can go search and see I finally called him out and stopped that when the over promise / under deliver BS started again after Andrew left the shop for ICB.

As for Tesla, if the truck does not meet the requirements stated when announced, I will walk and get my $100 back without having to deal with selling my spot and trying to break even

What do you mean? Tesla already raised the price of the truck on you. Why aren’t you out of that deal already?

That $100 bucks bought you exactly what is it worth as it relates to Tesla’s commitment to delivering what they promised you.. nothing.

They will give you a truck that costs more than what they promised, and/or it will have less range than they promised, and it will be late.

Again, would you have given them $1500 to lock in your price and range back in 2019? Of course you would have.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

Just popping in to say hello! Can't believe that Thanksgiving is next week



Still no cars delivered?........................................Noted.


Carry on.

 

[Singleton]

What do you mean? Tesla already raised the price of the truck on you. Why aren’t you out of that deal already?

That $100 bucks bought you exactly what is it worth as it relates to Tesla’s commitment to delivering what they promised you.. nothing.

They will give you a truck that costs more than what they promised, and/or it will have less range than they promised, and it will be late.

Again, would you have given them $1500 to lock in your price and range back in 2019? Of course you would have.

I knew from day 1 the price would go and hope the specs are what I want. If not, I walk and get all my money back with only a small float being made off my money. I avoid non-refundable deposits on products (unless 100% custom ordered item). Remember a large percentage of companies that lock in a price on kickstarter went out of business before delivering a product (almost all said the same thing - early losses are forecasted marketing expenses). To survive a company needs to have a profit margin from unit one. You can’t start with a negative profit margin and hope to make it up with future sales (that never works if the company has a long term vision).

 

[EPL]

Just popping in to say hello! Can't believe that Thanksgiving is next week



Still no cars delivered?........................................Noted.


Carry on.

Yep were on page 106 and "LOF" is still flapping about shit it doesn't know about , just guessing !!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I knew from day 1 the price would go and hope the specs are what I want. If not, I walk and get all my money back with only a small float being made off my money. I avoid non-refundable deposits on products (unless 100% custom ordered item). Remember a large percentage of companies that lock in a price on kickstarter went out of business before delivering a product (almost all said the same thing - early losses are forecasted marketing expenses). To survive a company needs to have a profit margin from unit one. You can’t start with a negative profit margin and hope to make it up with future sales (that never works if the company has a long term vision).

And how does that apply here where neither you or I have any idea about their P&L and who is funding anything? Who said they are operating on negative margins?

And the same applies here.. if the specs are not what I want I can walk. Speed will even help broker the sale of the spot.

If you don’t like the deal, don’t enter into it.. pretty simple.

 

[Singleton]

And how does that apply here where neither you or I have any idea about their P&L and who is funding anything? Who said they are operating on negative margins?

And the same applies here.. if the specs are not what I want I can walk. Speed will even help broker the sale of the spot.

If you don’t like the deal, don’t enter into it.. pretty simple.

Do you not read what you post. You just typed it.

…..They said repeatedly the first 1000 cars are their marketing budget. They are a loss leader…..

Simple accounting will tell you the loss on the first 1000 car will be JE’d into a marketing expense. That is how the accounting works. If a cars loss is being booked as a marketing expense that equals a negative margin.

 

[BIGRED9158]

I believe the main difference with the speed car compared to any other thing you can preorder Is the deposit is always refundable where in speeds case you have to try and sell your spot now if he delivers these cars and the Lower numbers do not perform and the market for them crashes when they come out then people are not going to be able to sell the car very easily

 

[PaPaG]

I believe the main difference with the speed car compared to any other thing you can preorder Is the deposit is always refundable where in speeds case you have to try and sell your spot now if he delivers these cars and the Lower numbers do not perform and the market for them crashes when they come out then people are not going to be able to sell the car very easily

Sounds like they are not be NOT Confident in their product or production promises.

 

[PaPaG]

Without going through this thread, did some people say they would be getting their cars by Thanksgiving? 9 days away? or is it Christmas?

 

[buck35]

Do you not read what you post. You just typed it.


Simple accounting will tell you the loss on the first 1000 car will be JE’d into a marketing expense. That is how the accounting works. If a cars loss is being booked as a marketing expense that equals a negative margin.

Hey easy now I'm sure he's a really nice guy in person anyone else come to mind...
I navee no issue with the latter btw.

 

[Bpracing1127]

Without going through this thread, did some people say they would be getting their cars by Thanksgiving? 9 days away? or is it Christmas?

Which time. If you go back to the beginning it was may, then June, then September for ssss the Halloween then thanksgiving

 

[stonehenge]

Without going through this thread, did some people say they would be getting their cars by Thanksgiving? 9 days away? or is it Christmas?

The more accurate question is what year.

 

[DWC]

Amazing this thread is still going. Should have been locked a long time ago

 

[Eliminator21vdrive]

Yep were on page 106 and "LOF" is still flapping about shit it doesn't know about , just guessing !!

Along with everyone else! Ya know what opinion's are like ?
Let the haters hate!!

 

[MonkeyButt70]

Amazing this thread is still going. Should have been locked a long time ago

No, Do not Lock this Thread!

It truly is one of the most entertaining and fascinating threads going. I enjoy reading people's positions for and against Speed. It is an endless argument.