Speed cars hit the assembly Line

[LargeOrangeFont]

Most hypocritical post I’ve ever seen on any forum

Another 0% contributor

 

[Javajoe]

Must have been pretty embarrassing for RG to see his rig break at the show. Really no excuse for that. That’s gotta hurt some sales. I’m sure the other Manuf’s enjoyed that

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Ahhhhhh.....I never proclaimed to talk down to people and don't but there are times you gotta call someone out for their actions. You deserve to be called out just based on your child like outbursts. You do it each and every day....EVERY FUCKIN' DAY.

My intentions have always been to try to help you understand a few things about you. If you don't want to listen to any advice then continue on with yourself.

It must be exhausting being you though......lol

Lets just say that I am very much unimpressed by you as a human being and just leave it at that.

Tom, you don’t need a proclamation to talk down to people. The fact that you are so blind to your own previous actions and still can’t even admit them is disappointing. You got banned for the same shit as I did and still don’t recognize it.

I don’t need advice from people that do the exact same thing they criticize me for.

I asked you multiple times to read the last thread to elucidate yourself as to why I was saying things with a certain tone that you found offensive to certain people. You refused to do that many times. Once again I’m not taking advise from someone that is not going to take time to understand my position, which you never had an interest in doing, you just had in interest in arguing, so that is fine and provides some entertainment.

If you want to move on, great, if you want to keep going back and forth on this or any topic and have a substantive position, fine.

If you want to keep going down the “I’m gonna teach LOF a lesson about talking down to people by talking down to him” road we can, and it will end the same as last time .

I suppose the other choice is to just put me on ignore.

The choice is yours!

 

[DILLIGAF]

For fuck sakes

Carry on

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

For fuck sakes

Indeed.

 

[counterpart7]

Another 0% contributor

You and me both, buddy

 

[attitude]

Pic of the upside down show chassis. I know nothing about fabrication so I’ll let the experts decide if this is better or worse than the one that broke.

 

[grumpy88]

You guys know RG doesn't need your money he and his family are well off he doesn't need this BS all he is trying to do is build a better mousetrap for us common people its not his fault covid came and slowed things down it has to be a perfect car before you get it or you guys will hang him from the first tree you can I promise you knowing RG he is involved at every step and I'm sure its very hard on him to stand there and tell you guys a few more months

He might be a great guy but he asked for this b.s. . He did nothing for Polaris except stickers , sorry I mean " graphics " on the the side . Then there was the Arctic cat fiasco and now this . Your right He never needed private money but here is the kicker ... he asked for it !!!! He has shit the bed . Bottom line .

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Pic of the upside down show chassis. I know nothing about fabrication so I’ll let the experts decide if this is better or worse than the one that broke.

View attachment 1155638

Thanks for that. Looks like an entire dual shear tab mount formed, and wrapped around the bar, then welded to structure.

 

[beerrun]

He might be a great guy but he asked for this b.s. . He did nothing for Polaris except stickers , sorry I mean " graphics " on the the side . Then there was the Arctic cat fiasco and now this . Your right He never needed private money but here is the kicker ... he asked for it !!!! He has shit the bed . Bottom line .

You are right to a point but robby is the one that designed the polaris 4 seater i saw it first in Bristol he took that to polaris and the 4 seater was born

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

Yep.

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

Pic of the upside down show chassis. I know nothing about fabrication so I’ll let the experts decide if this is better or worse than the one that broke.

View attachment 1155638

It's better in that it's not broken.




Yet

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

He might be a great guy but he asked for this b.s. . He did nothing for Polaris except stickers , sorry I mean " graphics " on the the side . Then there was the Arctic cat fiasco and now this . Your right He never needed private money but here is the kicker ... he asked for it !!!! He has shit the bed . Bottom line .

I think the honest truth is definitely between these 2 statements.

They have started an entire vehicle company in 3 years and are at the point where they are finally making vehicles.

On its face that is pretty good. Now if he hadn’t said the cars would be out 18 months ago, it would be a different story.

I think it was all a lot more work than they thought going in.

Have they shit the bed and going out of business? Not even close. They are looking at dealership properties in Irvine for this venture for chrissakes.

But agreed it is on their shoulders.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Yep.
View attachment 1155640

You don’t have to share the inspirational posters on your bedroom wall with us.

 

[ArizonaKevin]

For reference, here's pics of the same pivot on the XX. Don't think this is a known issue on the XX, but it's a lighter car, with less power, and the trialing arms are narrower so less leverage.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

For reference, here's pics of the same pivot on the XX. Don't think this is a known issue on the XX, but it's a lighter car, with less power, and the trialing arms are narrower so less leverage.

View attachment 1155642

View attachment 1155643

Thanks Kevin! I was just wondering about this.

 

[ArizonaKevin]

Thanks Kevin! I was just wondering about this.

The big difference that I can see that is somewhat concerning, it looks like on my car the tabs are radiused to match the radius of the tube they are welded to, where on the speed car it appears that they are trying to weld a square boxed tab directly to the tube.

*disclaimer I am not a fabricator, just sell cool stuff for a living

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The big difference that I can see that is somewhat concerning, it looks like on my car the tabs are radiused to match the radius of the tube they are welded to, where on the speed car it appears that they are trying to weld a square boxed tab directly to the tube.

*disclaimer I am not a fabricator, just sell cool stuff for a living

Take another look. It appears that bracket on the Speed car is radiuses to fit against the tube.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Just left the sand show. Robby was on the main stage. He said the rig that broke yesterday also broke in Parker and they fixed it with a 110v flux core welder.

Now, I'm no marketing genius, but why the hell would you jump the car with a trail fix? Sure, buzz it back together and finish a weekend. When back at a shop fix it right if you intend to hammer on it.

As for the detail pic of the one on it's lid, not the way I'd do it, but also never done production assemblies. A hydroformed or CNC bent bracket may in fact be just as strong as a multi-piece configuration. Any modern vehicle has many of them. The key advantage would be consistency of production, less chance of human error.

 

[counterpart7]

For reference, here's pics of the same pivot on the XX. Don't think this is a known issue on the XX, but it's a lighter car, with less power, and the trialing arms are narrower so less leverage.

View attachment 1155642

View attachment 1155643

The XX looks to be significantly stronger. Forged solid piece that gets integrated into the chassis. Speed car looks to be a U-shaped plate tab that is welded to the outside of the chassis. I’m surprised by this, but it explains the breakage.

 

[ArizonaKevin]

Take another look. It appears that bracket on the Speed car is radiuses to fit against the tube.

Looked closer, agree the speed is radiused, just appears as though my car is possibly more radiused and done a little cleaner.

 

[chvynhra]

For reference, here's pics of the same pivot on the XX. Don't think this is a known issue on the XX, but it's a lighter car, with less power, and the trialing arms are narrower so less leverage.

View attachment 1155642

View attachment 1155643

Narrower means more leverage. Those look to be forged, much much stronger.

 

[ArizonaKevin]

Narrower means more leverage. Those look to be forged, much much stronger.

My brain tells me that the wider the car is, the longer the moment arm is that can exert force on a system (breaker bar vs 1/4 drive ratchet). Would love to understand your thought process.

 

[Backlash]

I'm sorry, but the welds on that Speed golf cart look like they were done by a kid in a 7th grade introductory welding class. There's my 0% addition to this thread.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Looked closer, agree the speed is radiused, just appears as though my car is possibly more radiused and done a little cleaner.

My brain tells me that the wider the car is, the longer the moment arm is that can exert force on a system (breaker bar vs 1/4 drive ratchet). Would love to understand your thought process.

I would agree, especially considering it is pivoting about the main joint.

At the end of the day, I can’t tell you I’m anymore worried about this breaking than a radius rod component on a radius rod car.

I believe that piece is also forged on the speed car., but don’t 100% recall

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I'm sorry, but the welds on that Speed golf cart look like they were done by a kid in a 7th grade introductory welding class. There's my 0% addition to this thread.

I’d urge you not to look at a Polaris or Can Am

These cars are all MIG welded together.

 

[counterpart7]

My brain tells me that the wider the car is, the longer the moment arm is that can exert force on a system (breaker bar vs 1/4 drive ratchet). Would love to understand your thought process.

You would be correct. Narrower spacing between the two pivots would put more load on them, but my understanding is that the spacing is extremely close between the XX and SpeedUTV. Pivot points(front and rear) should be almost interchangable between the two.

 

[MonkeyButt70]

Pic of the upside down show chassis. I know nothing about fabrication so I’ll let the experts decide if this is better or worse than the one that broke.

View attachment 1155638

3 things stare at me in this pic.

1. The Heim is a cheap chinese chrome joint and most likely not hardened.
2. The Heim also uses china rubber (I can smell it from here) and not a proper urethane material to reduce inflection of the arm.
3. The U bracket that tore is not integrated into the chassis as a forged joint like most connection points in a high stress area of the frame, you can also see that it is not a complete circumference weld of the bracket. Definitely a weak spot for the suspension over time.

There were some steps skipped for sure. but again you do have to consider the price point these cars are trying to hit. If you want a "race car" then step up and pay for a custom build to get the top stuff.

 

[counterpart7]

I’d urge you not to look at a Polaris or Can Am

These cars are all MIG welded together.

All UTVs are “MIG” (GMAW) welded Mr. Know it all.

Only difference is Polaris and Can-Am don’t brag about their welds. Robby does, and they still look like shit.

 

[monkeyswrench]

The XX looks to be significantly stronger. Forged solid piece that gets integrated into the chassis. Speed car looks to be a U-shaped plate tab that is welded to the outside of the chassis. I’m surprised by this, but it explains the breakage.

Sand rails and many off road cars, things with 6" longer and wider arms, have run welded on brackets for many years. Weight of vehicle and distance between pivot points make a big difference on stressors though. In the same token, the distance between the crossmember and the pivot point on the fabricated bracket is the reason I would have gusseted the double shear mount. Even welding a brace, boxing the mount itself, would increase it's strength. At that point though, the mount may become stronger than the tube it's welded to...and require reinforcement to spread the stress.

In off road, probably any powersport, everything is only as strong as the weakest link. With any of these, it seems like chasing your tail. If I had one, I know exactly what I'd do to cure this particular "weakness"...but then the next one can be found. Like I posted before, get things to break less. Anything taken out with the intention to hammer on, will break at some point.

 

[ArizonaKevin]

You would be correct. Narrower spacing between the two pivots would put more load on them, but my understanding is that the spacing is extremely close between the XX and SpeedUTV. Pivot points(front and rear) should be almost interchangable between the two.

I believe you can bolt the speed arms into the XX, robby's patent covers the spacing between the pivots. My reference to wider was overall width between the tires, not pivot width.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

All UTVs are “MIG” (GMAW) welded Mr. Know it all.

Only difference is Polaris and Can-Am don’t brag about their welds. Robby does, and they still look like shit.

Maybe just echoing what I already said makes you feel better about yourself?

Don’t buy one if you don’t like it .

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Why wouldn’t he have the booth plastered with photos of the warehouse full of 75 cars, videos of them, etc. Carb says you can’t drive them but they would be ok with photos of them, that would shut a lot of the naysayers up. Makes you wonder if there really are 75 cars sitting somewhere?

 

[Sandlord]

You can see in pictures it was broken before the landing. It was injured before the jump attempt. They had been hooning around in the car.

Thats what I saw too

 

[JayBreww]

Why wouldn’t he have the booth plastered with photos of the warehouse full of 75 cars, videos of them, etc. Carb says you can’t drive them but they would be ok with photos of them, that would shut a lot of the naysayers up. Makes you wonder if there really are 75 cars sitting somewhere?

Probably are, in china.

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

Todd made a point of saying Speed does not grind then powder coat any welds

Maybe this is just glued and smoothed ...

 

[monkeyswrench]

My brain tells me that the wider the car is, the longer the moment arm is that can exert force on a system (breaker bar vs 1/4 drive ratchet). Would love to understand your thought process.

I believe he is referencing the distance between pivots on a single arm, not the overall track width. That's how I took it at least. Being narrow at those points is focusing the leverage from any lateral stress in a smaller area. The Speed setup is more of a traditional design, and the broader mounts send the stress towards more of the center. Given length of radius arm and weight of vehicle being equal, the Speed geometry should make it stronger.

That said, materials used and manufacturing techniques can also lose what was gained...

 

[JayBreww]

Todd made a point of saying Speed does not grind then powder coat any welds

Maybe this is just glued and smoothed ...

View attachment 1155662

He’s a business man, not a mechanic.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Probably are, in china.

This.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Todd made a point of saying Speed does not grind then powder coat any welds

Maybe this is just glued and smoothed ...

View attachment 1155662

He’s a business man, not a mechanic.

And that’s a sway bar, probably from a supplier and not a chassis.

 

[ArizonaKevin]

I believe he is referencing the distance between pivots on a single arm, not the overall track width. That's how I took it at least. Being narrow at those points is focusing the leverage from any lateral stress in a smaller area. The Speed setup is more of a traditional design, and the broader mounts send the stress towards more of the center. Given length of radius arm and weight of vehicle being equal, the Speed geometry should make it stronger.

That said, materials used and manufacturing techniques can also lose what was gained...

Makes sense, that part of the geometry I believe is a carbon copy of XX

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

And that’s a sway bar, probably from a supplier and not a chassis.

He didn't qualify his statement by saying only specific welds

No need to apologize for him.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Makes sense, that part of the geometry I believe is a carbon copy of XX

Not being a SxS guy, when I see "XX", I think of the old Sure Shot logo, or Dos Equis

 

[rivermobster]

I can recognize hard work and as most of you guys on here can as well. I think we all can agree that what has got this product to this point didn’t lack a lot of hard work. I won’t be a buyer until it has been out for a few years and have proven itself.

If he truly did address the tab issues on the new production line as was said, it would be good to quite all the commotion that is hurting him by posting videos what was made to address the issue.

I really hope he succeeds in his venture cause of all the hard work and also for the people that have made the deposits. If I was deposit holder , I would love to see what the improvements were and if not then what is going to be addressed to fix the unit I purchase before receiving it.

1000 percent agree.

 

[ArizonaKevin]

Not being a SxS guy, when I see "XX", I think of the old Sure Shot logo, or Dos Equis

Ah, XX is the original speed car. Textron/Artic Cat told Robby that there wasn't enough market to do a 4 seat version or a turbo version, which created this whole mess

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

Not being a SxS guy, when I see "XX", I think of the old Sure Shot logo, or Dos Equis

I guess I'm a bit more of a reprobate.
When I see XX I think of porn that's not quite as good as XXX

 

[WhatExit?]

Pot meet kettle the self proclaimed expert of identifying down talking, while down talking to others! That is some laughable shit.

Give it up, let it go, put me on ignore or just stop crying if you don’t like it Tom. You’ve never added one ounce of fact to help anyone on this topic, just whining and crying about me.

I’m not your problem, you are your problem if you can’t simply ignore someone you don’t agree with or at least let it go.

My life is fine Tom. Don’t you get sick of chasing me around a website asking for apologies?

Judge, jury, know it all, and executioner (name caller).

 

[Icky]

Stop being such a douche and rooting for failure Carl! everything breaks!!


Yea take a look at the flipped over car and take some pics. I didn’t look at that area specifically. This way the armchair mechanical engineers and international supply chain experts here can tell us how it’s going to fail.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Judge, jury, know it all, and executioner (name caller).

That is rich.

Guilty!

 

[Singleton]

Probably are, in china.

This actually makes sense.
Can’t import a car that is not certified.
Can import parts and assemble in Mexico/US, but a complete car will be stuck until certs are published