Russia and Ukraine

[monkeyswrench]

You know that “gain of function” research is bio weapon research. You know the NIH had responsibility for our bio weapon program and was conducting gain of function research. And you know who ran the NIH. And you know we “officially stopped” bio weapon research in the US, so instead we funneled money abroad to do so.

If there is a rumor of a bio lab in a questionable country that we may or may not have funded.. the odds are it is there and we put it there.

With 2 of the Ukraine labs, I saw videos and pics of an obvious medical lab type facility. The soldiers looking through the the taken buildings were showing paperwork in English. Unlike Russian, Ukrainian and a few others, English stands out. In all honesty, I questioned if materials had been planted. Obviously, a year ago, I had more faith in our leadership.

Now, as we seem more fit to argue about last year's fuckery, the current status is not much better. Over the past week, Donetske has been pummeled with cluster munitions. Targets, or accidental hits, have again included the hospital, downtown parks and markets. The AP also released a photo Thursday of damage from a "Russian missile" in Odessa. The photo they released was of the Odessa Trade Union massacre in 2014...when the people we were and are funding protested with iron pipes and molotov cocktails, killing and beating those opposed to the Maidon.
AP used their own pic, but wrote a new story.

...And, Preghozin wasn't just flying to Moscow, it's where he was the previous day that is of more interest. He and his top cammanders had been in Africa, where many Wagner troops are. In countries the US and it's allies are trying to push neighbors into wars.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

No, dont you get it, it's a one way street, the US gloabalists are allowed to expand and encroach into neutral territories, and we should be outraged to find out that is viewed as threatening to the other country. Heaven forbid....



Just look at a NATO influence map from 1980 and one today. This is Russia's fault

If Russia did to us in Mexico what NATO has done to Russia in Ukraine, we would have not stood for it and already went in.
Russia is certainly the devil.

 

[Wedgy]

Alexander Solzhenitsyn said that too. But I question Biden's ability to control his bowels, much less lead the nation into war.

 

[motormonkey]

The Wagner group is operating in haiti and south america. Afrika always has mercs from everywhere. Haha

 

[Wedgy]

The South African Farmers should pass the hat. Criminal what's going on there, Ukraine. There is no altruistic motive.

The Rich Men North of Richmond wreak havoc abroad like a personal playground with delusions of grandeur and perceived impunity. Skirting the law for personal gain. Newland, Binken and Nod are not Statesmen. Not cualified, nor are they capable of rational thought. The US ambassador to Hungary dressing Hungarians down for not accepting Trans insanity.

That is a problem. Penetrate. Eliminate.

 

[HNL2LHC]

I thought I was in a thread on Russia and Ukraine, originally authored by a well respected RDP member.
Didn't realize I'd stumbled into one of your numerous commentaries advocating breaking laws that will result in others having pick up your tab.

Sorry bout that.

Meanwhile, you keep right on hurling those insightful insults while listening intently for those imaginary cheers of peer adoration, all while bathing in the gratification of your perceived brilliance.

Russia, Russia, Russia has turned into LOF, LOF, LOF

Yet all along it was the US government, Us government, Us government.

 

[Wedgy]

Russia, Russia, Russia has turned into LOF, LOF, LOF

Yet all along it was the US government, Us government, Us government.

Who's America is it.

Vietnam happened in our America. I didn't know about this battle. I was 7 then. WW2 and Korea was prominent every time I looked at Dad. US Marine. I've out lived him for a decade now, in age. He never spoke a single word about war. This was T's fight for America. Standing on the shoulders of these brave fallen young men who fought for our America, Semper Fidelis.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Russia, Russia, Russia has turned into LOF, LOF, LOF

Yet all along it was the US government, Us government, Us government.

When in doubt.. Orange Man Bad.

 

[Taboma]

Sorry I didn't respond sooner, and others piped in My concern with the Ukraine labs was due to Russia saying they were there, and the US denying it for so long. I thought, "ok, this is another Vlad lie..." Six months later, we admit to it. When we found out US money had gone to the China lab, it was only after many had died, and the previous story was some guy ate bad bat soup. (Don't think "good" bat soup exists)

I don't think going off world would save us. It may delay the demise, but the aspect of humans that wants to control others is our weak link. Brilliant minds and ideas are over powered by greed. I don't know what it will take, but it doesn't seem to be driven by humans.

No problem hope you enjoyed a good morning and day.
My wife and I certainly did as we enjoyed an "Awesome California Weather Day"
I'll admit it, I did not suffer even the slightest tinge of remorse or guilt for doing so. Oh well, maybe tomorrow, but I doubt it.


It's most unfortunately those labs are necessitated by the reality of the potential horrors biological agents and weapons present.
No location is a good one, but certainly they should be as secretive as possible about their existence.
I have little doubt that there isn't numerous persons and countries involved in this terrifying research.

I doubt most governmental officials want to know anything about them, or discuss their existence, the less they know the better. It's for their own good and anyone close to them.

For 40 years we performed construction in intentionally 'Discrete' facilities and laboratories for various federal, university and private entities and rule # 1 was, don't ask.

 

[was thatguy]

I'm of course concerned there's biological components either naturally occurring or created that can present a horrifying danger to humankind.
It's concerning that humankind is vulnerable to being affected and contaminating others, it's even more concerning others would use them as an intentional weapon.

The threat in either case is very real, now what ? We know we can't ignore them, they're not just going away. We know others will research to discover the most devastating combinations and most effective means of dispersal to use these against others.

It's all very concerning, and you'd think by now humans would have conquered this, the greatest earthly threat to humanity, but it hasn't, not even close.

So now what ?? And if something, anything, then where ? Off planet ?

Good post.
If I may:
You are assuming that “conquering” these threats involves neutralizing the danger to humanity, as any rational human would.
But…that is not the reality.
The reality is that, just like any other advancement humankind makes, “conquering” involves winning the race to use advancements to kill others. That’s the way of this world and that’s the way it’s always been.

Also, The assumption that it’s “others” who would use this particular science nefariously is exceedingly naive, imo.
If you’re going to talk about bio labs and the resulting threats, then I think you have to talk about all of them…including ours, as it is US that will use them just as fast as our so called enemies.
We are not Archangels here, we lead the world in the ability and willingness to exterminate our “enemies”.

WE are the ones who patented COVID. WE are the ones with all those labs right on Putins porch. WE are the ones who installed a puppet regime within throwing distance of his borders strictly for this purpose.
The last time we did something like this (Turkey) Khrushchev sent his missiles to Cuba. Much Saber rattling ensued and JFK was the hero that made Khrushchev turn the boats around. Not much is said about the fact that he forced us to remove our missiles from Turkey and Italy.

In short, none of this research from any country, ESPECIALLY our country, has anything to do with the preservation of humanity. It has ONLY to do with gaining the upper hand…just like throughout time immemorial.

If NATO and the U.S. are going to pick this moment to try to eliminate Russia, then at least call it what it is.
Pretending we are completely reactionary in this debacle is of no value.

Please don’t get hurt and get all mad, I’m liking this exchange.

 

[was thatguy]

If one thinks about it, once the MAGA folks let Putin have Europe and China have Taiwan and other ambitions, America will be number three economically as well as in defense capabilities.

Scary intentional strategy.

But we are old, what do we know.

 

[was thatguy]

Oh, and BTW Guys, 8 billion people can read this thread, if privacy is desired there is a PM function just for that.
Otherwise it’s ridiculous to think others aren’t going to interject. It’s why I’m on the god damned site.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

If one thinks about it, once the MAGA folks let Putin have Europe and China have Taiwan and other ambitions, America will be number three economically as well as in defense capabilities.

Scary intentional strategy.

But we are old, what do we know.

Last time I checked, the Commander in Chief is a democrat?

 

[Wedgy]

"We have met the enemy, and it is us..."

Good post.
If I may:
You are assuming that “conquering” these threats involves neutralizing the danger to humanity, as any rational human would.
But…that is not the reality.
The reality is that, just like any other advancement humankind makes, “conquering” involves winning the race to use advancements to kill others. That’s the way of this world and that’s the way it’s always been.

Also, The assumption that it’s “others” who would use this particular science nefariously is exceedingly naive, imo.
If you’re going to talk about bio labs and the resulting threats, then I think you have to talk about all of them…including ours, as it is US that will use them just as fast as our so called enemies.
We are not Archangels here, we lead the world in the ability and willingness to exterminate our “enemies”.

WE are the ones who patented COVID. WE are the ones with all those labs right on Putins porch. WE are the ones who installed a puppet regime within throwing distance of his borders strictly for this purpose.
The last time we did something like this (Turkey) Khrushchev sent his missiles to Cuba. Much Saber rattling ensued and JFK was the hero that made Khrushchev turn the boats around. Not much is said about the fact that he forced us to remove our missiles from Turkey and Italy.

In short, none of this research from any country, ESPECIALLY our country, has anything to do with the preservation of humanity. It has ONLY to do with gaining the upper hand…just like throughout time immemorial.

If NATO and the U.S. are going to pick this moment to try to eliminate Russia, then at least call it what it is.
Pretending we are completely reactionary in this debacle is of no value.

Please don’t get hurt and get all mad, I’m liking this exchange.

 

[Wedgy]

To Yee Pubs of old, and lively conversations.

 

[was thatguy]

"We have met the enemy, and it is us..."

I just think it’s important to be honest with ourselves.

 

[Taboma]

Review your post #2888.

We all learned how to hurl insults and feign old age and innocence from you, dad.

If you did some research you’d know the work they were doing wasn’t legal in the US… which is why the labs are in China and Ukraine.

Your insinuation in post # 2,886 was clearly intended as an insult and that's exactly how it was received and I responded accordingly.

Go pedal your story of innocence to your fans, but I'm not buying it bruiser.

Regardless, it's just fun and games on the internet.

 

[was thatguy]

I went back and read that post, and could find no insinuation of insult? (And I know insults!)
He’s stating the same opinion that I have, that those labs are not for finding noble cures in the face of evil wrongdoing. They are for creating the evil.

It’s not an insult to disagree.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Your insinuation in post # 2,886 was clearly intended as an insult and that's exactly how it was received and I responded accordingly.

Go pedal your story of innocence to your fans, but I'm not buying it bruiser.

Regardless, it's just fun and games on the internet.

#onlyfans

 

[was thatguy]

#onlyfans

Hey mister!
You stay out of this!!

 

[530RL]

Last time I checked, the Commander in Chief is a democrat?

Yes, and that commander in chief has ironically taken the historical Reagan conservative position of defending freedom and liberty over tyranny and oppression by putting together a coalition to fund and aid those who have been invaded and are currently subject to war crimes including rape and torture of civilians.

It is the MAGA folks who believe we should leave Ukraine and Western Europe including our NATO Allies to Putin and Taiwan to Xi.

It’s as if the MAGA folks are trying to out liberal the historically weak on defense liberal party?

 

[monkeyswrench]

No problem hope you enjoyed a good morning and day.
My wife and I certainly did as we enjoyed an "Awesome California Weather Day"
I'll admit it, I did not suffer even the slightest tinge of remorse or guilt for doing so. Oh well, maybe tomorrow, but I doubt it.


It's most unfortunately those labs are necessitated by the reality of the potential horrors biological agents and weapons present.
No location is a good one, but certainly they should be as secretive as possible about their existence.
I have little doubt that there isn't numerous persons and countries involved in this terrifying research.

I doubt most governmental officials want to know anything about them, or discuss their existence, the less they know the better. It's for their own good and anyone close to them.

For 40 years we performed construction in intentionally 'Discrete' facilities and laboratories for various federal, university and private entities and rule # 1 was, don't ask.

Well, our weather here's nice, but the day is spent working on a honey-do list from hell, tending to a family member, and sporadically getting back on here to maintain some form of sanity.

Yes, here is where I choose to spend time to downshift, and come of the rev limiter
All countries do the gain of function thing. Really, of scientific spending, I'd think 90% is aimed at taking life. It may happen along the way that good uses are found, but those are more happy accidents than intent.

At it's core, I think what bothers me most is the lies and subsequent deaths brought to us by professional politicians. I'd always thought evil and violence was a thing only created by monsters. I thought highly of all those in office. Now, I realize they are truly more despicable than myself. I feel guilt for my past actions, they feel nothing. They take joy in what they do, regardless of the human toll. I feel that many in power have take advantage of the trust people like me had.

To Yee Pubs of old, and lively conversations.

This exactly. I may not agree, but I will listen. One should always learn or try to. Honestly, when I drank, I rarely had much in the way of stimulating conversations at the bars. Then again, I did not frequent nicer establishments, andI also drank to forget...

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Your insinuation in post # 2,886 was clearly intended as an insult and that's exactly how it was received and I responded accordingly.

Go pedal your story of innocence to your fans, but I'm not buying it bruiser.

Regardless, it's just fun and games on the internet.

There is the feigning innocence part I spoke of.

I didn’t insult you directly or passively. I challenged you to do a little research and see what you found on the topic of how and why the labs came to be in Ukraine (and China) in the first place.

That is not an insult.

Here is another challenge - Find someone other than you that will stand up and say my post #2886 was an insult.

You did this same thing a couple weeks ago to Cdog in a pro California tirade .

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Yes, and that commander in chief has ironically taken the historical Reagan conservative position of defending freedom and liberty over tyranny and oppression by putting together a coalition to fund and aid those who have been invaded and are currently subject to war crimes including rape and torture of civilians.

It is the MAGA folks who believe we should leave Ukraine and Western Europe including our NATO Allies to Putin and Taiwan to Xi.

It’s as if the MAGA folks are trying to out liberal the historically weak on defense liberal party?

Biden = Reagan, got it.

Funny part is Putin only misbehaves under Democrats

 

[monkeyswrench]

Yes, and that commander in chief has ironically taken the historical Reagan conservative position of defending freedom and liberty over tyranny and oppression by putting together a coalition to fund and aid those who have been invaded and are currently subject to war crimes including rape and torture of civilians.

It is the MAGA folks who believe we should leave Ukraine and Western Europe including our NATO Allies to Putin and Taiwan to Xi.

It’s as if the MAGA folks are trying to out liberal the historically weak on defense liberal party?

Hahahaha! Our current commander in chief's old boss started this whole fiasco in the form of funding an uprising to install a puppet! Funny as hell when you think a black(ish) president ended up funding the nazi loving regime.

I have no problem with the concept of stopping the spread of communism, contrary to what a few of you may say. I have an issue with organizing agreements to do so, then funding a war to break the agreements that were in place.
No honor, from either side...

 

[was thatguy]

Yes, and that commander in chief has ironically taken the historical Reagan conservative position of defending freedom and liberty over tyranny and oppression by putting together a coalition to fund and aid those who have been invaded and are currently subject to war crimes including rape and torture of civilians.

It is the MAGA folks who believe we should leave Ukraine and Western Europe including our NATO Allies to Putin and Taiwan to Xi.

It’s as if the MAGA folks are trying to out liberal the historically weak on defense liberal party?

 

[530RL]

Biden = Reagan, got it.

Funny part is Putin only misbehaves under Democrats

Lol

I think you missed the point.

MAGA = Chamberlain

And I missed it where Putin pulled out of Syria and Ukraine as well as stopped funding terrorists throughout the world under your Messiah?

 

[was thatguy]

Lol

I think you missed the point.

MAGA = Chamberlain

And I missed it where Putin pulled out of Syria and Ukraine as well as stopped funding terrorists throughout the world under your Messiah?

The things you’ve missed would fill volumes.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Lol

I think you missed the point.

MAGA = Chamberlain

And I missed it where Putin pulled out of Syria and Ukraine as well as stopped funding terrorists throughout the world under your Messiah?

Can I define that’s as you want wars? Cuz I don’t, neither does my Messiah, God.

 

[530RL]

Can I define that’s as you want wars? Cuz I don’t, neither does my Messiah, God.

You can define that as if one takes a position that we should stand by and let Putin have Ukraine, those same people should not be surprised when US troops have to be deployed under Article 5 of our NATO obligations, nor surprised when China rolls through Taiwan crippling our economy knowing if we wouldn’t help Ukraine, then we have certainly green lighted China to take Taiwan.

Leaders deal with the facts as they are, not as they would like.

Or as the Fram oil filter commercial says, pay me now or pay me later. We made this mistake before, this is the right call in Ukraine as well
as the right call arming Taiwan as we have been doing for decades.

To the extent you want to argue America has no business getting involved, I get that. But at least then admit you wish America to relinquish its leadership role in the world. You can’t have it both ways.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

You can define that as if one takes a position that we should stand by and let Putin have Ukraine, those same people should not be surprised when US troops have to be deployed under Article 5 of our NATO obligations, nor surprised when China rolls through Taiwan crippling our economy knowing if we wouldn’t help Ukraine, then we have certainly green lighted China to take Taiwan.

Leaders deal with the facts as they are, not as they would like.

Or as the Fram oil filter commercial says, pay me now or pay me later. We made this mistake before, this is the right call in Ukraine as well
as the right call arming Taiwan as we have been doing for decades.

To the extent you want to argue America has no business getting involved, I get that. But at least then admit you wish America to relinquish its leadership role in the world. You can’t have it both ways.

Joe Biden is the commander in chief, so it’s all on him.

Matters Zero what I want or Trump wants or what Tommy wants

 

[530RL]

Joe Biden is the commander in chief, so it’s all on him.

Matters Zero what I want or Trump wants or what Tommy wants

Well then you should consider reading the Constitution.

Because it is not all on him, it requires the approval of Congress.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Well then you should consider reading the Constitution.

Because it is not all on him, it requires the approval of Congress.

Not anymore, hasn’t for some time now.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Well then you should consider reading the Constitution.

Because it is not all on him, it requires the approval of Congress.

Yet Congress has not declared a war since WWII.

 

[530RL]

Not anymore, hasn’t for some time now.

LOL

Well then how did all that money get appropriated? And how did all those weapons expended, loaned and given away get paid for?

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

LOL

Well then how did all that money get appropriated? And how did all those weapons expended, loaned and given away get paid for?

Trump isn’t the President. Why are you trying to make it his fault?

Putin had not invaded until Biden, XI hadn’t acted up until Biden. Kim hadn’t fired a middle until your President took office

Joseph Robinet Biden has destabilized the world

 

[530RL]

Trump isn’t the President. Why are you trying to make it his fault?

Putin had not invaded until Biden, XI hadn’t acted up until Biden. Kim hadn’t fired a middle until your President took office

Joseph Robinet Biden has destabilized the world

Holy mackerel. This debate is about Russia V Ukraine in the future not the past.

But you do clearly operate in a different universe of facts than I. Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014. Kim continued to fire missiles during Obama, Trump and Biden. And on and on.

And none of it is fortunately under the control of Trump since he lost the free and fair election.

And let’s hope the republicans can run someone to beat Biden in 24 as he isn’t doing much better. But at least he is not holding up aid for personal gain as trump was impeached for.

 

[was thatguy]

Here’s a novel idea!
Maybe have someone with 2 active brain cells in this admin (if that person exists) attempt a brokerage of truce?
Instead of NATO and the fucking vegetable we call president throwing all hope down the drain, and flushing money and assets down the toilet, maybe try something of actual substance?
Do you war supporters really think we can “defend democracy” globally by planting flags and tanks on everyone’s borders?
Jesus Christ, that’s exactly why we are where we are.
Escalating war to save the world…insanity.
Developing superior biological weaponry does not save humanity, it kills people.
$100 billion in cash and weapons does not save humanity or save lives. It escalates death and drains nations.
Not This nation…or any other nation on this planet… can afford to fight everyone.
I don’t think we should “give” Ukraine to Russia. (We don’t own it technically) and I think any other super power is salivating seeing us dump endless assets into it with almost no results.
It’s funny, all we heard from the idiots in 2016 was how trump would start wwIII…hmmm not so much as it turns out.
People like the Oracle and others are the reason that humanity has and will continue to perpetually destroy itself over and over.

 

[was thatguy]

Holy mackerel. This debate is about Russia V Ukraine in the future not the past.

But you do clearly operate in a different universe of facts than I. Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014. Kim continued to fire missiles during Obama, Trump and Biden. And on and on.

And none of it is fortunately under the control of Trump since he lost the free and fair election.

And let’s hope the republicans can run someone to beat Biden in 24 as he isn’t doing much better. But at least he is not holding up aid for personal gain as trump was impeached for.

Yeah? What did Kim actually hit with those missiles?

 

[monkeyswrench]

Didn't Biden brag about withholding aid to Ukraine as VP? I guess it wasn't his personal gain though...just to keep his son from being investigated...in Ukraine.

 

[was thatguy]

Didn't Biden brag about withholding aid to Ukraine as VP? I guess it wasn't his personal gain though...just to keep his son from being investigated...in Ukraine.

Yeah, a billion dollar bribe withheld unless the prosecutor investigating Hunter and Burisma was fired.
Which then happened. But hey, that’s all fine and dandy in anti trump TDS world.

 

[was thatguy]

Trump isn’t the President. Why are you trying to make it his fault?

Putin had not invaded until Biden, XI hadn’t acted up until Biden. Kim hadn’t fired a middle until your President took office

Joseph Robinet Biden has destabilized the world

He’s losing his mind.
8 full years of Trump hate has taken its toll on his psyche.

 

[Wedgy]

Holy mackerel. This debate is about Russia V Ukraine in the future not the past.

But you do clearly operate in a different universe of facts than I. Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014. Kim continued to fire missiles during Obama, Trump and Biden. And on and on.

And none of it is fortunately under the control of Trump since he lost the free and fair election.

And let’s hope the republicans can run someone to beat Biden in 24 as he isn’t doing much better. But at least he is not holding up aid for personal gain as trump was impeached for.

Exhibit A.
A Separate Reality. And not Carlos Castaneda's. Wow. Just, wow.

"Those who do not study History, are doomed to repeat it..."

 

[was thatguy]

Exhibit A.
A Separate Reality. And not Carlos Castaneda's. Wow. Just, wow.

"Those who do not study History, are doomed to repeat it..."

That’s awesome.
I just replaced my “teachings of Don Juan” 4 book box set.

 

[Sandlord]

Lol

 

[Racey]

Not only are we protecting democracy, apparantly we must directly pay for it in Ukraine as well

Zelensky Says He Won't Hold Elections Unless U.S. and EU Pay for Them

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky demanded the U.S. and EU send even more aid if the West wishes for elections to be held next year.

www.breitbart.com

 

[Wedgy]

Blackmail! So, who's going to charge Zelensky?

 

[was thatguy]

 

[Racey]

Blackmail! So, who's going to charge Zelensky?

No no, the blackmail is bringing attention to it, we are the ones that are guilty here.

 

[was thatguy]

Preparation H, but the metamucil fiber is helping…

Is it?