Real Estate : It’s a great time to buy. it’s a great time to sell

[shintoooo]

If you read this thread with this on loud in the background, it makes it so much better

 

[angiebaby]

Not only that...what do you guys think will happen once the rates drop by 1%? Millions more will be able to qualify for the same house you are competing for. Rates will come down but values are not. The old saying in the lending industry is "marry the home, not the rate". A cost of a refinance is far less expensive than waiting for the rates to come down while the value of the property you want to buy rises exponentially. People jump over the dollars to pick up the nickels. If it makes me the bad guy for explaining it because I'm a mortgage broker...so be it.

You know, I find this funny. I've never heard this "old saying" until about two years ago. Maybe I just wasn't listening. But it fits right in the original post. Mortgage brokers and RE agents don't have a crystal ball, yet they say things like this, essentially telling a buyer, "Don't worry, rates will eventually go down, and you will be able to refinance at a considerably lower rate." They don't know that rates are going to go down, but they come off as the expert, and buyers trust them as the expert, when really, they are just saying whatever they need to in order to make the sale.

Granted, there are some really good agents out there, including our agent in Reno. But I'm not sure what she did was worth $40K. She didn't have to advertise, and had a "new" agent sit for the open house. The house sold itself. Great neighborhood on an acre in town with a shop. Smaller house but able to add on. 4/2. Clean, limited furniture and decorations to clutter it up, and recently completely remodeled, including new siding. She did some negotiating on our behalf, which is her job. But again, I don't think it was worth $40K for one month of work.

 

[Xring01]

Dude you’re living in the matrix.

What if I told you everything that you want is available right now.

Because it IS!!!


You just don’t like what you get for that price.

So you want some kind of agreed upon socialism applied to real estate transactions that eliminates consumers ability to choose & pay what they want?

You are 100% missing my point.
You are in a service based industry….
Lots of people can replace you…
The vast majority of people in the US today, can get RE License in 3 months or less.
Your fee structures where established many many many decades ago…
Your industry has hung its hat, to the past marketing and business models, which is obviously hurting the industry or we would have this dialog. Has refused to update that model. To the point of the recent lawsuits to the RE Industry and massive penaltys…

Update the business model/services to the modern market, or the market will solve the problem for you.

Think about how many people who view RE Agents as slightly better than a Used Car saleman, if you want your industry to do better, you must address that view point and change the perception of the profession. You will not be able to do that, when you have an outdated business models/fee structures etc. In addition to that, IMHO update the ethics policy and increase the standards of getting a RE license, remove all the bad RE Agents, giving your profession the “used car salesman” perception.

By making some of these changes, your profession would prosper… not flail like it is today.

 

[Cdog]

You are 100% missing my point.
You are in a service based industry….
Lots of people can replace you…
The vast majority of people in the US today, can get RE License in 3 months or less.
Your fee structures where established many many many decades ago…
Your industry has hung its hat, to the past marketing and business models, which is obviously hurting the industry or we would have this dialog. Has refused to update that model. To the point of the recent lawsuits to the RE Industry and massive penaltys…

Update the business model/services to the modern market, or the market will solve the problem for you.

Think about how many people who view RE Agents as slightly better than a Used Car saleman, if you want your industry to do better, you must address that view point and change the perception of the profession. You will not be able to do that, when you have an outdated business models/fee structures etc. In addition to that, IMHO update the ethics policy and increase the standards of getting a RE license, remove all the bad RE Agents, giving your profession the “used car salesman” perception.

By making some of these changes, your profession would prosper… not flail like it is today.

Oh good you’re back.

I should have asked you up front if you’re some kind of progressive liberal.

Because facts and logic don’t penetrate your myopic worldview.

Nothing more I can say because you’re convinced you’re the smartest person in the room.

 

[BabyRay]

A wise man once told me that if two people are arguing incessantly, they’re both wrong.

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

Exactly like a cop, who does not like bad guys…
or a Elementary school teacher who does like kids….

Its a profession you chose. That has market philosophy thats under threat, because it has not updated with the times.

It may be time to reconsider the profession, if you can‘t make it worth your time and efforts.

Just saying!

I'm fine, but I've been doing this for 24 years. I have only been expressing the change to all industries is coming. Yesterday it was cab companies, Uber and Amazon, right now it's real estate, tomorrow I believe it to be construction. My point is, the digital age and AI is affecting the amount of people needed in the job pool and the amount those employees or sub-contractors make. With digital you have fewer people working....meaning the economy will contract and I believe it to contract at an alarming rate. You still have a population that requires income to live day to day. Basically, the end result will be a downward trending economy. In order for an economy to thrive, there must be the ability to increase jobs not contract the job market.

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

Those are Zillow preferred Teams that pimp the leads to their greenhorn agents while taking 30-50% of that $7500.

Correct, Zillow Flex. I have been in on some masterminds which has some insight on where things are going. Real Estate is a small part of this future. If everthing can be automated, there is less need for billions of people on this earth. I'm just trying to get some people to think a few steps ahead. If I spell it out, I'll be the conspiracy theorist. If those people read the writing on the wall for themselves, then they will understand the ways things are trending.

 

[2Driver]

A wise man once told me that if two people are arguing incessantly, they’re both wrong.

That’s not correct.

 

[BabyRay]

That’s not correct.

Of course it is!

 

[Englewood]

You are 100% missing my point.
You are in a service based industry….
Lots of people can replace you…
The vast majority of people in the US today, can get RE License in 3 months or less.
Your fee structures where established many many many decades ago…
Your industry has hung its hat, to the past marketing and business models, which is obviously hurting the industry or we would have this dialog. Has refused to update that model. To the point of the recent lawsuits to the RE Industry and massive penaltys…

Update the business model/services to the modern market, or the market will solve the problem for you.

Think about how many people who view RE Agents as slightly better than a Used Car saleman, if you want your industry to do better, you must address that view point and change the perception of the profession. You will not be able to do that, when you have an outdated business models/fee structures etc. In addition to that, IMHO update the ethics policy and increase the standards of getting a RE license, remove all the bad RE Agents, giving your profession the “used car salesman” perception.

By making some of these changes, your profession would prosper… not flail like it is today.

What business model have agents failed to update?

 

[Sportin' Wood]

In general, I think salespeople tend to get a bad rap; if not RE agents, it's the car salespeople, or the Insurance salespeople, or whatever. I try and keep my employment on the down low; I hope people can respect that. We have two types of salespeople in my global org. Organic and Acquired. I'm not in sales, BTW.

Organic comes up through our traditional legacy sales program. They are 100% engineers, and they are not hustlers. They are very specialized, helpful, and knowledgeable. They are, by definition, soft sellers.

The Acquired salespeople come along when we acquire a new company. They are not engineers, highly educated, knowledgable, or helpful. They are killers. They are artists in closing a deal. They are masters at hitting numbers. They are universally hated inside our org, but we would not see the same sales performance numbers without them. They are boisterous, needy, knuckle-dragging drunks. Arrogant, loud, and reckless. They are showmen, braggers, and slick.

No one likes the aggressive Acquired salespeople until the year-end bonus. That is the one time we celebrate these assholes. The innovative engineer type of people don't understand the value that they provide, but they like the sales numbers they put on the board.

I think, in general, the personality type that excels at sales is an acquired taste. Personally, I respect it, but I don't like it.

In my opinion, where the real estate industry went wrong is allowing anyone to take up selling real estate as a side hustle. My brother is a PT agent. Mom has had a CA license for 40-plus years she did it FT. My brother is a con artist; Mom used to grind back in the day and knew the market. Canyon Lake was her spot in the 70s-80s

The side hustle people who are not looking to build lifetime value with a customer or network seems to have soiled the whole industry's reputation. The barrier to entry is so low it is hard to respect agents. The natural good agents likely don't tread in the blood-filled water of the occasional buyer; that seems to be where the Pikers play, the one-and-done side job, washed-up stripper, and the soft-hand hustler. It looks like someone dropped a duce in that pool, and the kids are racing for the ladder.

Digital is going to weed out the Pikers; the true experts will still have a place in the industry, but if you are not an investor, you'll get the service you deserve. I think less agents is going to be a good thing. The downside of capitalism is that we have people who will do almost anything for a dollar. Every industry has a crook.

 

[HNL2LHC]

If you read this thread with this on loud in the background, it makes it so much better

Totally works!!!!! Thanks for the tip….not sure if I should have used that word. Maybe thanks for the suggestion would have been better. LOL

 

[Cdog]

In general, I think salespeople tend to get a bad rap; if not RE agents, it's the car salespeople, or the Insurance salespeople, or whatever. I try and keep my employment on the down low; I hope people can respect that. We have two types of salespeople in my global org. Organic and Acquired. I'm not in sales, BTW.

Organic comes up through our traditional legacy sales program. They are 100% engineers, and they are not hustlers. They are very specialized, helpful, and knowledgeable. They are, by definition, soft sellers.

The Acquired salespeople come along when we acquire a new company. They are not engineers, highly educated, knowledgable, or helpful. They are killers. They are artists in closing a deal. They are masters at hitting numbers. They are universally hated inside our org, but we would not see the same sales performance numbers without them. They are boisterous, needy, knuckle-dragging drunks. Arrogant, loud, and reckless. They are showmen, braggers, and slick.

No one likes the aggressive Acquired salespeople until the year-end bonus. That is the one time we celebrate these assholes. The innovative engineer type of people don't understand the value that they provide, but they like the sales numbers they put on the board.

I think, in general, the personality type that excels at sales is an acquired taste. Personally, I respect it, but I don't like it.

In my opinion, where the real estate industry went wrong is allowing anyone to take up selling real estate as a side hustle. My brother is a PT agent. Mom has had a CA license for 40-plus years she did it FT. My brother is a con artist; Mom used to grind back in the day and knew the market. Canyon Lake was her spot in the 70s-80s

The side hustle people who are not looking to build lifetime value with a customer or network seems to have soiled the whole industry's reputation. The barrier to entry is so low it is hard to respect agents. The natural good agents likely don't tread in the blood-filled water of the occasional buyer; that seems to be where the Pikers play, the one-and-done side job, washed-up stripper, and the soft-hand hustler. It looks like someone dropped a duce in that pool, and the kids are racing for the ladder.

Digital is going to weed out the Pikers; the true experts will still have a place in the industry, but if you are not an investor, you'll get the service you deserve. I think less agents is going to be a good thing. The downside of capitalism is that we have people who will do almost anything for a dollar. Every industry has a crook.

 

[Cdog]

@Sportin' Wood - Excellent post BTW.

I was on my way to become a aerospace engineer straight out of high school following the footsteps of my grandfather and dad at Garrett/Allied Signal/Honeywell. 2 + years in my salesman lizard brain decided I couldn't spend my life under florescent lights taking 1 month to decide something that takes me 30 minutes on a Bridgeport mill to fix. I'm the hybrid of the two types and often piss off the salesman with what I know and have done and annoy the engineers with how I approach problems/solutions with simplicity and speed.

 

[Tamalewagon]

You know, I find this funny. I've never heard this "old saying" until about two years ago. Maybe I just wasn't listening. But it fits right in the original post. Mortgage brokers and RE agents don't have a crystal ball, yet they say things like this, essentially telling a buyer, "Don't worry, rates will eventually go down, and you will be able to refinance at a considerably lower rate." They don't know that rates are going to go down, but they come off as the expert, and buyers trust them as the expert, when really, they are just saying whatever they need to in order to make the sale.

Granted, there are some really good agents out there, including our agent in Reno. But I'm not sure what she did was worth $40K. She didn't have to advertise, and had a "new" agent sit for the open house. The house sold itself. Great neighborhood on an acre in town with a shop. Smaller house but able to add on. 4/2. Clean, limited furniture and decorations, and recently completely remodeled. She did some negotiating on our behalf, which is her job. But again, I don't think it was worth $40K for one month of work.

Hit and miss unfortunately. People can get to a position when they have a very good idea where the market is going instead of relying on the crystal ball (as most RE agents and lenders) do by diving into simple economics and market reports. I do this so people know I am worth what they are paying for, not because I simply want to be the conduit for their financing. <I'm not suggesting that you were referring to me with your post, just responding in general using myself as the example>

 

[Xring01]

What business model have agents failed to update?

Obviously you havent read any of my posts…
But I will get alot more specific…

https://realestate.usnews.com/real-...ltor-lawsuit-means-for-homebuyers-and-sellers


Maybe $2 - 5 Billion judgement might get your attention, to an out dated business model… Just maybe?????

But we know I am not the smartest guy in the room.

“
The class-action lawsuit – Sitzer v. the National Association of Realtors – alleged that NAR, Keller Williams Realty, Anywhere Real Estate (formerly known as Realogy), RE/MAX and HomeServices of America (all major real estate brokerages), colluded to artificially inflate agent commissions.
RE/MAX and Anywhere Real Estate (formerly known as Realogy) earlier this year settled out of court for a combined $140 million. A jury ultimately sided against the remaining defendants on Oct. 31, awarding a judgment of $1.8 million that could, depending on the judge’s decision, surge to over $5 billion in total damages.
“They ultimately agreed that there was a conspiracy among Realtors to keep their fees artificially high,” says Omar Ochoa, a class action attorney and founder of Omar Ochoa Law Firm in Texas.”

Before any of you ask me more questions to defend my opinion / stance..

How about you guys defend the Realtors Association regarding the above….. “Utimately agreed that there was a conspiracy among Realtors to keep their fees artificially high””””..

Again, this is coming from one of the dumbest guys on RDP, as some of you think…
Wonder what a smart guy could come up with?

 

[Xring01]

Let me see if I can put my smart guy hat on…
A Electrical/Mechanical/Civil Engineer spends absolute minimum 4 years to get that degree. Most I know took 5 or more. Takes every math class a Univerisity has to get thru the program. If you think is might be challenging, then read a syllabus for Differential Equations… 95% of population doesnt even understand that, much less Diff EQ…

But a Degree’d Engineer comes out of college get their first job in the central U.S for hopefully $80K, East/West coast maybe $95K. These people truly solve real world problems… Wonder how much it truly cost all in for that degree to get a job for $80-95K starting… Wonder how much studying it took to get that degree? Probably not the easiest degree to get, since very few people get them and few college offer them. But why is the demand for Engineers so high???? Hmmm maybe a smart person can figure that one out.

(Wonder how many RE Agents could make it past Physics, much less Diff EQ)… Thats the dumb side of me coming out.

In 4-5 years the Engineers are in the $100 - $150k neighborhood still paying down student debt but because they are smart, they have maximized their 401Ks and still living like college students, paying off debt, and investing for retirement. Still driving the 240,000 mile Toyota / Honda that grandma gave them as a Jr in High School. And still studying their ass off to pass the PE Exam 4-5 years after school because they have failed 4-6 times already. But they have plan, and very happy with their salary and upward trajectory knowing they will be a 401K millionaire at 55.

But lets look at a RE Agent process… for that bottom 90% of the agents.
Most likely does not have a degree, failed a few jobs before they realize this is probably the easiest money they can get. They get home from the bartending gig, read a few pages of the RE Agent book to prep for the test. Do that for 3 months and POOF… They are a PROFESSIONAL now…

The first thing they do… Business cards with their Glamor Face/Body Shot and then get the new BMW/Mercedes they cant afford Wrapped, with that same Glamor Shot. Its re possessed in 6 months. (You fuckers cracking up now aren’t ya, because we have all seen that asshole acting important in the starbucks line at 10:30am… am I right)…

And the next thing you know… shit they realize this isnt easy money… after a few years most wash out, but not all, they continue to be that asshole, dragging down the reputation 10% who are knocking down 90% of the sales…

One would think, maybe ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, just maybe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, maybe,,,,,,,,,,,, the top 10% could come together to improve their image to clientele they want to do business with. I guess because I am such a dumb ass, Unions or RE Associations have no real power to make changes. WTF, didnt the UAW Union bring Ford to their knees.. yes they did… But the Smart RE Agents cant make changes to their industry??? Ahhh maybe UAW is smarter than RE Association… or maybe they are better organized???

Again, Dumbass as me living in the Utopian world, thinking the people whose future income is on the line, would want to secure that for the future. No I am just dumbass bad guy who can call out the obvious.

BTW… I am not Engineer, nor do I have any true degrees. But 90% of time is spent solving problems that Engineers cant. Thanks to the US Navy and time served on Fast Attack Submarines. I am just bottom dwelling, lower than whale shit bubble head. Who worked his ass off to get to where I am.

If we can establish the cost/ROI to get a Engineering degree…
We know the cost to get a RE License is practically zero in comparison…
But if we where to equate the two professions on a level playing field.
Wonder what the average American would say a RE Agent should make/year, considering its fairly easy license, in relation to the cost and time it takes to get an Engineering Degree, much less a PE.

If Engineering degree is to big of comparison…How about a Registered Nurse…Time/Effort/Payscale comparison to RE? Should RE make more than RN’s????

Should RE make more than Elementary School Teacher???? That topic would cause one hell of a debate… Oh lets start that one.
And I will pour the second bourbon… shit will get real then

 

[Havasu blue label]

Let me see if I can put my smart guy hat on…
A Electrical/Mechanical/Civil Engineer spends absolute minimum 4 years to get that degree. Most I know took 5 or more. Takes every math class a Univerisity has to get thru the program. If you think is might be challenging, then read a syllabus for Differential Equations… 95% of population doesnt even understand that, much less Diff EQ…

But a Degree’d Engineer comes out of college get their first job in the central U.S for hopefully $80K, East/West coast maybe $95K. These people truly solve real world problems… Wonder how much it truly cost all in for that degree to get a job for $80-95K starting… Wonder how much studying it took to get that degree? Probably not the easiest degree to get, since very few people get them and few college offer them. But why is the demand for Engineers so high???? Hmmm maybe a smart person can figure that one out.

(Wonder how many RE Agents could make it past Physics, much less Diff EQ)… Thats the dumb side of me coming out.

In 4-5 years the Engineers are in the $100 - $150k neighborhood still paying down student debt but because they are smart, they have maximized their 401Ks and still living like college students, paying off debt, and investing for retirement. Still driving the 240,000 mile Toyota / Honda that grandma gave them as a Jr in High School. And still studying their ass off to pass the PE Exam 4-5 years after school because they have failed 4-6 times already. But they have plan, and very happy with their salary and upward trajectory knowing they will be a 401K millionaire at 55.

But lets look at a RE Agent process… for that bottom 90% of the agents.
Most likely does not have a degree, failed a few jobs before they realize this is probably the easiest money they can get. They get home from the bartending gig, read a few pages of the RE Agent book to prep for the test. Do that for 3 months and POOF… They are a PROFESSIONAL now…

The first thing they do… Business cards with their Glamor Face/Body Shot and then get the new BMW/Mercedes they cant afford Wrapped, with that same Glamor Shot. Its re possessed in 6 months. (You fuckers cracking up now aren’t ya, because we have all seen that asshole acting important in the starbucks line at 10:30am… am I right)…

And the next thing you know… shit they realize this isnt easy money… after a few years most wash out, but not all, they continue to be that asshole, dragging down the reputation 10% who are knocking down 90% of the sales…

One would think, maybe ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, just maybe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, maybe,,,,,,,,,,,, the top 10% could come together to improve their image to clientele they want to do business with. I guess because I am such a dumb ass, Unions or RE Associations have no real power to make changes. WTF, didnt the UAW Union bring Ford to their knees.. yes they did… But the Smart RE Agents cant make changes to their industry??? Ahhh maybe UAW is smarter than RE Association… or maybe they are better organized???

Again, Dumbass as me living in the Utopian world, thinking the people whose future income is on the line, would want to secure that for the future. No I am just dumbass bad guy who can call out the obvious.

BTW… I am not Engineer, nor do I have any true degrees. But 90% of time is spent solving problems that Engineers cant. Thanks to the US Navy and time served on Fast Attack Submarines. I am just bottom dwelling, lower than whale shit bubble head. Who worked his ass off to get to where I am.

If we can establish the cost/ROI to get a Engineering degree…
We know the cost to get a RE License is practically zero in comparison…
But if we where to equate the two professions on a level playing field.
Wonder what the average American would say a RE Agent should make/year, considering its fairly easy license, in relation to the cost and time it takes to get an Engineering Degree, much less a PE.

If Engineering degree is to big of comparison…How about a Registered Nurse…Time/Effort/Payscale comparison to RE? Should RE make more than RN’s????

Should RE make more than Elementary School Teacher???? That topic would cause one hell of a debate… Oh lets start that one.
And I will pour the second bourbon… shit will get real then

What is your profession

 

[Xring01]

What is your profession

Lets just say I work with Electric Utility’s and the very large Renewable Developers, for the most part.

Over my career, I have developed a massive respect for Utility Engineers that I work with on a daily basis. Which is why I love my job. Because I am (a small but significant) part of developing some huge projects, or solving very expensive problems, working with awesome problem solving people. Most I can call a friend.

Again, my education came from the US Navy Submariner program. Which opened these doors for me.
But it only cost me 8 years of my life to get that education.
Think about the quality of life of the average submariner today…
They can easily spend 240 plus days under the water out of 365… When they are under water, there is no calling your wife/mom/kids etc.
Someone in you family pass’s away while you deployed… You will find out when you get back to port, 3 - 6 months later.
Its a huge sacrifice, I did my time and learned a lot, but after 8 years… I did not want to do that again. Because if I would have re enlisted, I would have to spend the next 4 years poking holes in the oceans, rarely seeing my family.

So mad respect to anyone in the military, the two key charitys of mine are Wounded Warriors and Make A Wish foundation. I spent alot of time/$$$ supporting both of those programs when I lived in SoCal for 20 years.

Whats your profession?

 

[Havasu blue label]

contractor self employed 30 plus years in California

 

[hallett21]

I’m starting to think some people are just mad at the way the world works. My wife is a RN, MICN, and NP. With enough schooling to make your head spin. And I bet there’s plenty of hot pharmaceutical reps who earn 4x what she does.

Top performing realtors know their value and demand it.

If you feel that you can get equal money doing it on your own then you most certainly should.

There are plenty of engineers making 150k a year while the concrete contractor who performs the work makes millions.

At the end of the day a realtor or mortgage broker are salesman and not financial advisors.

 

[Dan Lorenze]

I sell trim.

haha... I just figured out who you are...

 

[Raffit78]

Average realtor sells 3 homes a year. In most states that’s just above the threshold to file for taxes, if that’s your main source of income.

There’s 0 rule or law that a seller needs to pay any set commission fee. If you can’t negotiate the commission you are willing to pay, That is on you.

Just like any skilled career, when you go in for your interview. You can determine your wage. It is up to the other side to accept or not. Fairly simple.

That lawsuit is a good one, I’ve been following it. That lawyer is set to make $150 million dollars.

 

[Bpracing1127]

I think the root of the problem with RE agents are, what did "they" do to increase their pay? Let's say you have a house that you put a bitchen backyard and made it all sweet. That cost you 200K to do. now the house is worth 300k more. From their current pay structure, they get that gain too (% of sales price) why should they get that gain? they didn't do anything to increase the value of your home.


with that being said the value of the RE agent is to bring max value to your home by selling it, that means advertising, marketing, and plenty more. some do a good job at this, and most do not.

it is in the RE agents' best interest to sell or buy a home for their clients. Does that mean it's a good deal? Possibly, possibly not. This is the same for brokers or anyone else who benefits from the sale or purchase of the house.

Salespeople for companies (cars, businesses etc.) all get a % too. Some have no salary and are only % like RE agents) the difference is the company they work for does things to increase the value of the assets where RE agents do not other than creative marketing which could see an increase or decrease in the value.

I'm all for flat fees for RE agents.

Let's paint a picture. Homes in OC, in 2050. Anaheim or Orange even Mission Viejo. They likely will be worth let's say on average 3 mil. If the % based model doesn't change. The RE office still gets roughly 3% per side 6% total (some could be 5) but now the RE agent office clears up to 90k per sale or purchase. Something is wrong with that when they did zero to bring the value of the market up or down.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

Is this the new 2024 RE thread? The place to bash agents and loan officers because we have told you since 2012 that you should buy??

 

[hallett21]

Something else that’s not being mentioned is that most homes have a mortgage on them when they sell.

So while the commission is on the gross sale the seller feels like they got robbed on their equity. But I don’t think you can put that on the realtor. Their job is to sell the home. Or bring a buyer to make the sale happen.

Just the way it goes. I can’t think of any valuable sales person who is not 100% commission.

2019-2021 created a false idea of how real estate transactions go.

 

[LuauLounge]

Have bought and sold homes with and without agents involved. All went smoothly. On the buying end, I wasn’t looking for something after the deal, on the selling end, I disclosed everything and on both, if I got a bad vibe I’d walk. Too old to play games.
I’m going to sell a place or two and I’m torn about listing them. Not going to pay 6% on a home in an area that has currently has 6 homes for sale out of 22,000. 5 of those 6 homes have been listed 1 day.

 

[jet496]

...But I'm not sure what she did was worth $40K. She didn't have to advertise, and had a "new" agent sit for the open house. The house sold itself. Great neighborhood on an acre in town with a shop. Smaller house but able to add on. 4/2. Clean, limited furniture and decorations to clutter it up, and recently completely remodeled, including new siding. She did some negotiating on our behalf, which is her job. But again, I don't think it was worth $40K for one month of work.

Yea, we just bought a house and literally saved $70k by not using an agent (They lowered the price by that since no agent was involved but we did pay $7500 for a real estate attorney of their choice for their comfort level) & simply used a title company and a standard CAR agreement.

This day in age with Realty.com type sites where they bring the listing to you, not an agent, along with pictures, property descriptions, sales & property tax history, etc., I just do not see the worth in 6% realtor fees. It's quite silly actually. Maybe $5k or 10K for making sure everything's good but really that's what the title company does and the CAR agreement covers everything else.

Just sayin'

 

[Havasu blue label]

Yea, we just bought a house and literally saved $70k by not using an agent (They lowered the price by that since no agent was involved but did we pay $7500 for a real estate attorney of their choice for their comfort level) & simply used a title company and a standard CAR agreement.

This day in age with Realty.com type sites where they bring the listing to you, not an agent, along with pictures, property descriptions, sales & property tax history, etc., I just do not see the worth in 6% realtor fees. It's quite silly actually. Maybe $5k or 10K for making sure everything's good but really that's what the title company does and the CAR agreement cover everything else.

Just sayin'

Very smart

 

[angiebaby]

Yea, we just bought a house and literally saved $70k by not using an agent (They lowered the price by that since no agent was involved but we did pay $7500 for a real estate attorney of their choice for their comfort level) & simply used a title company and a standard CAR agreement.

This day in age with Realty.com type sites where they bring the listing to you, not an agent, along with pictures, property descriptions, sales & property tax history, etc., I just do not see the worth in 6% realtor fees. It's quite silly actually. Maybe $5k or 10K for making sure everything's good but really that's what the title company does and the CAR agreement covers everything else.

Just sayin'

I agree 100%. We've said in another thread that we purchased a home in 2022 without an agent. Smalltown Montana attorney fees were $400. The title company in town handled the rest. We split those fees traditionally, and it was a very smooth transaction. I recognize it wouldn't always be that way and that things can go awry. But the owner wanted to sell to us, and we wanted to purchase that specific home, so it worked out in everyone's favor. I'm not sure how paying an agent $28K would have improved it at all. What could he or she possibly have done to warrant that kind of money, when the attorney only charged $400? Our loan officer personally knew both the attorney and the title officer, so it was a seamless purchase. Easiest ever. I'm not against agents assisting with the transaction. I just think the fees they are getting are absolutely ridiculous for what they provide. Just my opinion. I realize that will ruffle the feathers of a lot of the realtors on the board, I don't know what to tell ya. I think the fees are ridiculous.

 

[Xring01]

Yea, we just bought a house and literally saved $70k by not using an agent (They lowered the price by that since no agent was involved but we did pay $7500 for a real estate attorney of their choice for their comfort level) & simply used a title company and a standard CAR agreement.

This day in age with Realty.com type sites where they bring the listing to you, not an agent, along with pictures, property descriptions, sales & property tax history, etc., I just do not see the worth in 6% realtor fees. It's quite silly actually. Maybe $5k or 10K for making sure everything's good but really that's what the title company does and the CAR agreement covers everything else.

Just sayin'

Well done sir..
But when I bring up the fact the RE business model is broken and needs to be updated. I get attacked right left and center. Accused of creating arguement, when I am just debating FACTS… and being captian fucking obvious.

Then people demand I defend my opinions and call me stupid or __________________.
And I bring facts of Lawsuits/ and Billions of dollars in fines to the RE industry and CRICKETS… No one defends it. But I am still the bad guy. This board has how many RE Professionals that can’t defend their industry when it comes to those lawsuits.

I am glad you shared your story, and I am glad you figured out the path and proved my point that flat rate %’s are outdated for RE industry that the digital age has / is changing that business model.

To everyone of you thinks I am stupid, or just bashing the RE Industry. Jet 496, Just saved $70K,,, going around you. Angiebabie figured it out… Luaulounge figured it out…

What are you going to do, to save your profession?

Continue to call me the bad guy? Stupid? Or make changes to your industry. Because calling me the bad guy is not gonna save your future income. Your only hope is adapting to the times.. or go extinct. When how many people on this thread are going around you and sharing that gospel.

I personally think their is a need for RE Professionals, but they have to clean house, update the business model, raise the standards for the requirements to get license/certs.

Now I am feeling stupid for spending 4% on my last transaction 2 years ago… Jet, Angie, Luau… thanks for making me feel stupid and well done.

 

[hallett21]

Well done sir..
But when I bring up the fact the RE business model is broken and needs to be updated. I get attacked right left and center for stating the obvious.

Then people demand I defend my opinions and call me stupid or __________________.
And I bring facts of Lawsuits/ and Billions of dollars in fines to the RE industry and CRICKETS… No one defends it. But I am still the bad guy.

I am glad you shared your story, and I am glad you figured out the path and proved my point that flat rate %’s are outdated for RE industry that the digital age has / is changing that business model.

To everyone of you thinks I am stupid, or just bashing the RE Industry. Jet 496, Just saved $70K,,, be going around you. Angiebabie figured it out…

What are you going to do, to save your profession?

Continue to call me the bad guy? Or make changes to your industry. Because calling me the bad guy is not gonna save your future income. Your only hope is adapting to the times.. or go extinct.

You keep saying it’s a flat rate commission.

That’s just not true. There’s plenty of realtors who will do the paperwork and put your property on the MLS for 1% or even for a flat fee.

Every listing is different and negotiable.

If a realtor is only willing to list for 6% then go find someone who will list for less.

 

[Xtrmwakeboarder]

Well done sir..
But when I bring up the fact the RE business model is broken and needs to be updated. I get attacked right left and center for stating the obvious. Creating arguements, when I am just debating FACTS… and being caption fucking obvious.

Then people demand I defend my opinions and call me stupid or __________________.
And I bring facts of Lawsuits/ and Billions of dollars in fines to the RE industry and CRICKETS… No one defends it. But I am still the bad guy.

I am glad you shared your story, and I am glad you figured out the path and proved my point that flat rate %’s are outdated for RE industry that the digital age has / is changing that business model.

To everyone of you thinks I am stupid, or just bashing the RE Industry. Jet 496, Just saved $70K,,, going around you. Angiebabie figured it out… Luaulounge figured it out…

What are you going to do, to save your profession?

Continue to call me the bad guy? Stupid? Or make changes to your industry. Because calling me the bad guy is not gonna save your future income. Your only hope is adapting to the times.. or go extinct.

It was even worse in CA during COVID. Dozens of offers on a house ending up several hundred $k over asking, and only one weekend on the market…if you could even get in to see it. No negotiation, just open your wallet. Had to be the easiest money they’d ever make.

 

[Xring01]

You keep saying it’s a flat rate commission.

That’s just not true. There’s plenty of realtors who will do the paperwork and put your property on the MLS for 1% or even for a flat fee.

Every listing is different and negotiable.

If a realtor is only willing to list for 6% then go find someone who will list for less.

I have answered, question after question after question after question…

Time for the RE Professional to defend the RE Assocaition against the $5Billion judgement against them…
Because thats is a FACT JACK… Collusion was proven…..

Dont ask me to defend my opinion, until you deal with THOSE FACTS.

I listed a link in an earlier post… READ IT… before you respond… Better bring lots of RE Lawyers in that response… because its a doosy to defend.

 

[hallett21]

I have answered, question after question after question after question…

Time for the RE Professional to defend the RE Assocaition against the $5Billion judgement against them…
Because thats is a FACT JACK… Collusion was proven…..

Dont ask me to defend my opinion, until you deal with THOSE FACTS.

I don’t think (at least I haven’t read) that anyone disagrees that there was fraud there.

But I’m not sure how that puts the whole industry on notice. The pharmaceutical industry is swatting away (paying them) billion dollar judgements left and right lol.

There is fraud amongst Attorneys, CPAs, Contractors, Bankers etc etc etc. Those industries continue to operate as usual.

I don’t see how this judgement changes that professionals command a premium for their service.

There are plenty of law firms that charge $1,000+ an hour. A lawyer fresh out of law school is entitled to charge $2,000 an hour. Doesn’t mean they’re going to get it lol.

There is a responsibility on the seller and buyer to do their due diligence before hiring a commission based realtor. Although as a buyer you shouldn’t care about the commission since you’re not paying it.

 

[Xring01]

I don’t think (at least I haven’t read) that anyone disagrees that there was fraud there.

But I’m not sure how that puts the whole industry on notice. The pharmaceutical industry is swatting away (paying them) billion dollar judgements left and right lol.

There is fraud amongst Attorneys, CPAs, Contractors, Bankers etc etc etc. Those industries continue to operate as usual.

I don’t see how this judgement changes that professionals command a premium for their service.

There are plenty of law firms that charge $1,000+ an hour. A lawyer fresh out of law school is entitled to charge $2,000 an hour. Doesn’t mean they’re going to get it lol.

There is a responsibility on the seller and buyer to do their due diligence before hiring a commission based realtor. Although as a buyer you shouldn’t care about the commission since you’re not paying it.

OK…
So in a 401K situation… a Fiduciary… has legal obligations and professional standards to be in a financial guidance role..
For someone who just got their first job and deciding to allocate $100/month in a 401k… Starting at zero, and month 1 it has $100…

A financial advisor in this circumstance has a fiduciary responsibility over a $100/month correct…

But a RE Agent doesnt… they are just an advisor for $500,000 transaction or ____________________….

Now lets dig into the lawsuit I referenced…
It was not one company… or one group… Its the founding principal association of the ENTIRE FUCKING INDUSTRY…

Lets keep digging… about to pour the second .

hmmmm maybe the standards of that industry could be updated to meet the minimum fiduciary regulations.. considering it could be $500k transaction.. NOT $100…

Please google Fiduciary before you respond.. especially the legal implications of it.

Maybe thats the key to RE Pro industry, the fiduciary responsibility to the client like financial advisors… FOOD FOR FUCKING THOUGHT!

 

[hallett21]

OK…
So in a 401K situation… a Fiduciary… has legal obligations and professional standards to be in a financial guidance role..
For someone who just got their first job and deciding to allocate $100/month in a 401k… Starting at zero, and month 1 it has $100…

A financial advisor in this circumstance has a fiduciary responsibility over a $100/month correct…

But a RE Agent doesnt… they are just an advisor for $500,000 transaction or ____________________….

Now lets dig into the lawsuit I referenced…
It was not one company… or one group… Its the founding principal association of the ENTIRE FUCKING INDUSTRY…

Lets keep digging… about to pour the second .

hmmmm maybe the standards of that industry could be updated to meet the minimum fiduciary regulations.. considering it could be $500k transaction.. NOT $100…

At the end of the day a real estate agent is just a salesperson. They can “guide” and “advise” all they want but it’s just another sale. That’s an extreme over simplification and the top 1% know how to provide service and value above and beyond “just a sales person”.

I’m not sure when they were ever held to higher or lower standard?

Agreed a fiduciary has an ethical and legal responsibility. But that’s a different industry.

I don’t think adding any more laws or regulations are going to protect the consumer. I’d prefer an open market than a .Gov regulated one.

Yes the National Association of Realtors is in hot water. But I don’t see how that ropes every realtor into the same column. That’s like saying the NRA committed fraud so all gun owners did too.

I’ll agree that there are 1,000s of dirtbag realtors. But there are also a lot who flat out get things done and are paid well for it.

 

[Xring01]

OMG…
Thats the key to the equation…
Why RE Association does not want the Fiduciary responsibility like a Financial Advisor…

It opens the doors to Litigation…

RE Association will fight that battle just like they did colluding the 6% commission, because of the professional standards required to meet the minimum… and the potential litigation for RE Agents who fuck up…

Slam fucking dunk!.

How do you get a legacy of substandard “Pro’s” up to the new standard in a short period of time, with opening the doors to infinite lawsuit’s… I am referring to 90% who get 10% of the sales. Not the top 10% who get 90% of the sales…

Fuck me… Pretty sure I just hit the nail with 18lb sledge hammer…

The RE Association problem is all about how to update the standards in a rapid manner protecting the top 10%, flushing 90%, and not getting sued into BK….

Maybe my second bourbon is hitting more than I think.. But pretty sure I am on to something.

No bad for lower than whale shit bottom feeder.

As someone who will most likely buy more property in future… I will do my best to demand a Fiduciary responsibity for anyone who I chose to work with… Or I will not work with them.. PERIOD.

 

[hallett21]

OMG…
Thats the key to the equation…
Why RE Association does not want the Fiduciary responsibility like a Financial Advisor…

It opens the doors to Litigation…

RE Association will fight that battle just like they did colluding the 6% commission, because of the professional standards required to meet the minimum… and the potential litigation for RE Agents who fuck up…

Slam fucking dunk!.

How do you get a legacy of substandard “Pro’s” up to the new standard in a short period of time, with opening the doors to infinite lawsuit’s… I am referring to 90% who get 10% of the sales. Not the top 10% who get 90% of the sales…

Fuck me… Pretty sure I just hit the nail with 18lb sledge hammer…

The RE Association problem is all about how to update the standards in a rapid manner protecting the top 10%, flushing 90%, and not getting sued into BK….

Maybe my second bourbon is hitting more than I think.. But pretty sure I am on to something.

No bad for lower than whale shit bottom feeder.

Well for one thing a financial advisor, investment banker etc is typically taking your liquid cash and investing it. So yea they have a responsibility to do so with ethics and in an attempt to make you more money.

Real estate agents are selling a physical item that you own. So if we go after them why not go after everyone who sells anything?

Car, boat, plane, yacht etc broker. A well done Schiada costs more money than a lot of homes in the US lol. Do we adjust the boat broker’s compensation because they’re making more money than a realtor in BFM Oklahoma? No offense to anyone who lives in OK.

 

[Xring01]

At the end of the day a real estate agent is just a salesperson. They can “guide” and “advise” all they want but it’s just another sale. That’s an extreme over simplification and the top 1% know how to provide service and value above and beyond “just a sales person”.

I’m not sure when they were ever held to higher or lower standard?

Agreed a fiduciary has an ethical and legal responsibility. But that’s a different industry.

I don’t think adding any more laws or regulations are going to protect the consumer. I’d prefer an open market than a .Gov regulated one.

Yes the National Association of Realtors is in hot water. But I don’t see how that ropes every realtor into the same column. That’s like saying the NRA committed fraud so all gun owners did too.

I’ll agree that there are 1,000s of dirtbag realtors. But there are also a lot who flat out get things done and are paid well for it.

Come on..
Your glossing over the implications of this just like Democrat talking head protects Biden over age/memory issues on CNN and MSNBC…

The entire culture, founding principals, operating guidelines… come from the head of the snake. RE Association.

THe vast majority of RDP is not gonna fall for it…

 

[Xring01]

Well for one thing a financial advisor, investment banker etc is typically taking your liquid cash and investing it. So yea they have a responsibility to do so with ethics and in an attempt to make you more money.

Real estate agents are selling a physical item that you own. So if we go after them why not go after everyone who sells anything?

Car, boat, plane, yacht etc broker. A well done Schiada costs more money than a lot of homes in the US lol. Do we adjust the boat broker’s compensation because they’re making more money than a realtor in BFM Oklahoma? No offense to anyone who lives in OK.

Really…
How many Schiada sell/month across the US,,, versus home/property…

OK… done with you tonight.

 

[hallett21]

Come on..
Your glossing over the implications of this just like Democrat talking head protects Biden over age/memory issues on CNN and MSNBC…

The entire culture, founding principals, operating guidelines… come from the head of the snake. RE Association.

THe vast majority of RDP is not gonna fall for it…

I think you’re putting too much weight on the association. The headline gets clicks and fires up everyone who’s ever been “wronged” by a realtor. NAR is also filing an appeal and we know how long that’s gonna take.

I know a few agents personally that do 8-9 figures gross annually. They litterally have their membership handled through a secretary lol.

They are only focused on their clients and areas of business.
If they didn’t perform and get deals done (for both sides) they wouldn’t be in business.

Edit. And no they are not getting 6% lol

 

[hallett21]

Really…
How many Schiada sell/month across the US,,, versus home/property…

OK… done with you tonight.

Ok Schiada, MTI, DCB, Eliminator, Hallett, Trifecta, Bennington, Parker, Midnight Express, Gradywhite, Howard…….. shall I continue. These are all brands that can be sold used for more than a majority of homes in the US.

387k is the average price of a home in the US for reference.

 

[NicPaus]

@hallett21 nobody even you can convince X2001 the reality of the market. Lol.

You should be out here now at the river. Popping bottles enjoying it. Text me tomorrow. We got Kids all age and babysitters.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Capitalism works best when served with a healthy serving of Envy. You either grind harder to reach the next rung, or you try and knock others down. Two different mindsets, and they can shift on a dime. Hustlers are gonna hustle, and we thankfully have the freedom to choose how we manage our relationships.

I've given this a lot of thought based on many of these types of threads. I can't begrudge anyone for taking what they can; I can only try and do the best for me and mine. It irritates the shit out of me that an RE agent can make $40K for a month's worth of work, but I don't have to agree to use an RE agent. I can take on the risk and attempt to do it myself. New tools actually make this easier.

Any of us could take on a side hustle and sell real estate; we would rather just talk crap. In around 2012, I bet my Mom and Brother I could pass the California Re-exam. I took the weekend crash course and passed the following week. It is really not that hard. I never hung my license.

The market is best when we don't invite government regulations to the party.

 

[LuauLounge]

So, what happens if I stopped by an open house, hosted by the sellers agent. Can I represent myself? The only time this happened was over 35 years ago. At the time, it never crossed my mind.

 

[BHC Vic]

You keep saying it’s a flat rate commission.

That’s just not true. There’s plenty of realtors who will do the paperwork and put your property on the MLS for 1% or even for a flat fee.

Every listing is different and negotiable.

If a realtor is only willing to list for 6% then go find someone who will list for less.

Didnt tobtek offer to do 1%? I remember that not going well and I don’t see him post too much anymore

 

[D19]

It’s pretty ignorant to bash real estate agents on a free website whose owners are real estate agents.

All real estate agent haters are nothing more than free market haters. You only consider what agents make on closed transactions. Try quitting your salary job and working 6-7 days a week, holidays, all hours of day/ night, etc without guaranteed pay. Let me know how you feel when you have weeks or months and hundreds or thousands of dollars into a clients home and they call you and say “we don’t want to sell anymore”. I bet you same haters would be crying to the labor board if your employer shorted you 1 hour of pay! Lol

If you think realtors make too much money and you think laws should be placed to limit their income, you are a communist free market hater. Period. Realtors are NOT civil servants. It amazes me how so many members on here will boast about being a conservative Republican yet when it comes to an economical conversation, they are so liberal.

 

[Cdog]

It’s pretty ignorant to bash real estate agents on a free website whose owners are real estate agents.

All real estate agent haters are nothing more than free market haters. You only consider what agents make on closed transactions. Try quitting your salary job and working 6-7 days a week, holidays, all hours of day/ night, etc without guaranteed pay. Let me know how you feel when you have weeks or months and hundreds or thousands of dollars into a clients home and they call you and say “we don’t want to sell anymore”. I bet you same haters would be crying to the labor board if your employer shorted you 1 hour of pay! Lol

If you think realtors make too much money and you think laws should be placed to limit their income, you are a communist free market hater. Period. Realtors are NOT civil servants. It amazes me how so many members on here will boast about being a conservative Republican yet when it comes to an economical conversation, they are so liberal.

See post 49. Right over his thick skull.

 

[white tortilla]

So, what happens if I stopped by an open house, hosted by the sellers agent. Can I represent myself? The only time this happened was over 35 years ago. At the time, it never crossed my mind.

I tried to make several offers on different properties. Three of them the listing agent wouldn’t call me back after repeated calls. I had to have a re-agent engaged by me to call. Then they got a call back same day. Additionally one of the listing agents I did get a hold of said they would only submit my offer if I used them as the buyers agent. Which I think is illegal?