Packing Heat! Need some suggestions

[jones performance]

open, concealed both have their places. choose whats right for you and your situation and lifestyle.

 

[Activated]

At what distance should you be proficient at when at the range?

I start at 7 feet, then 14, and finally 21...not sure why. 7 and 14 feet feel pretty easy, but at 21 my shots are not in a close group...may be fatigue at that point.

 

[Icky]

The only thing I would add is don’t go dancing and do backflips when carrying concealed.

Or dont put your finger on the trigger when u pick it up

 

[Jonas Grumby]

At what distance should you be proficient at when at the range?

I start at 7 feet, then 14, and finally 21...not sure why. 7 and 14 feet feel pretty easy, but at 21 my shots are not in a close group...may be fatigue at that point.

Anything more than about 10’, after that, it’s prolly gonna be murder, think about it.

 

[ChasingPaper]

I’ve had my CCW in CA and AZ for a few years now. I carry my Glock 27 iwb at 3 o’clock which I’ve found to be the most comfortable and easiest to grab. I’m my opinion get a .40 and not a 9mm so you have some true knock down power. Shooting a tweaker charging at you with a 9mm won’t do much. I’ve tried several holsters and really like my Vedder kydex iwb because it’s minimal and comfortable. Also get yourself a belt from 5.11 tactical so you have something strong to clip it on. Make sure you take a few CCW specific courses and keep practicing!


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[pronstar]

Anything more than about 10’, after that, it’s prolly gonna be murder, think about it.

Tueller Drill trains at 21 feet with a holstered gun against a knifed assailant. And you’d better be very, very proficient with the gun at that distance.

While “it depends” is sort of a cop out, you’re generally right if we want to make a blanket statement.

But there’s so many variables, and its hard when to process “how can I get sued or go to jail” when you’re in the middle of a life-threatening situation.

Which is also why you never talk to the cops after a shooting. Just invoke your 5A right and let a lawyer do the taking.


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[Done-it-again]

My vedder holsters.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Buy a copy of the "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad F Ayoob.
Read it. Its cheap, a super easy read and unbelievably enlightening.
He's an ex cop and gives a ton of incredibly valuable perspective as well as eye opening info.

Should be 101 material for anyone contemplating carrying.

UD

 

[LASINC]

Like many others I went through a lot of holsters ie... ankle, shoulder, iwb, etc. Gone through many different brands and ended up loving Stealth Gear holsters. There expensive but for me worth every penny. Another good brand is Alien Gear which a colleague of mine uses. Stores wont let you try them on and if you do, it doesn't give you the full effect of running, sitting, bathroom breaks, etc. You have to try it out for a couple days in order to get the full effect and make sure its not exposing or rubbing the metal into your sides, etc. Like anything else, you get what you pay for and even though I bought some cheapies on ebay, craigslist, etc........What works for me is Stealth Gear and I can use it with board shorts or dressed in a suit and even riding a motorcycle. So good luck on finding the right one. Just my .02

https://stealthgearusa.com/
or
http://aliengearholsters.com/

 

[Moody]

http://gunsinthenews.com/portland-o...ot-killed-by-police-after-gun-fell-on-ground/

 

[wsuwrhr]

You mean, other than this post?

I'm not going to post anything on this tread.......

 

[Blackmagic94]

Hk VP9sk is the end of this discussion

 

[pronstar]

View attachment 660719 Hk VP9sk is the end of this discussion

So it’s now a Ford versus Chevy dick swinging debate...


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[Ballyhoo]

At what distance should you be proficient at when at the range?

I start at 7 feet, then 14, and finally 21...not sure why. 7 and 14 feet feel pretty easy, but at 21 my shots are not in a close group...may be fatigue at that point.

Most folks can shoot tight groups at distances of seven yards or less. Your mistakes just increase as you get farther away. Everything is correctable with training and dry practice is something you can do that will help a bunch.

Try starting at seven yards and work out to ten and fifteen yards. Plenty of good videos online such as any video from Gunsite or The Sig Sauer Academy. The only thing that will tighten those groups is good technique and practice. Its all about front sight, sight picture, trigger press and follow thru.

Doesn't matter if you are shooting a $6K custom made 1911 or a $200 cheap pistol. If you don't have any skill, it won't matter. Shot placement is King.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

I will say it is known as a chick gun but i love mine, specially with a +2 mag. Look at the Glock 43, tucks beautifully and being a 9mm is very versatile

 

[Ballyhoo]

I’ve had my CCW in CA and AZ for a few years now. I carry my Glock 27 iwb at 3 o’clock which I’ve found to be the most comfortable and easiest to grab. I’m my opinion get a .40 and not a 9mm so you have some true knock down power. Shooting a tweaker charging at you with a 9mm won’t do much. I’ve tried several holsters and really like my Vedder kydex iwb because it’s minimal and comfortable. Also get yourself a belt from 5.11 tactical so you have something strong to clip it on. Make sure you take a few CCW specific courses and keep practicing!


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Where did you get this information about "knock down power" and the tweaker info?

 

[pronstar]

With modern defensive loads, “knock down powa” is a myth perpetuated by emotion with literally no data to back it up.

There’s very little ballistic difference between 9mm, .40 and .45, and this is proven by many, many studies that include actual shootings.



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[HavaToon]

I will say it is known as a chick gun but i love mine, specially with a +2 mag. Look at the Glock 43, tucks beautifully and being a 9mm is very versatile

This is my everyday CCW pistol in a Tulster IWB/AIWB KYDEX HOLSTER - PROFILE HOLSTER.

A G22 is my camping, hunting, hiking, etc gun. Open carried with a kydex OWB, leg holster or chest mount depending on activity.


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[ChasingPaper]

Where did you get this information about "knock down power" and the tweaker info?

Just my friends that are cops and I live in the IE so that should make me an expert on tweekers! Lol


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[Done-it-again]

Federal HST rounds in all my CCW's. 9 and 45

 

[Kachina26]

I usually just put the .38 in my pocket.. but I wear pretty baggy ass Dickies most the time. LOL

RD

You should consider adding a pocket holster, it will keep the trigger from accidentally getting snagged and ensures you don't pull a bunch of pocket out while trying to draw. https://goo.gl/images/aJXQMM

The only thing I would add is don’t go dancing and do backflips when carrying concealed.

Unless you're a trained professional. Not like just a cop, but you know a G man, like the FBI or something.

 

[Andy B.]

I did my refresher course in March, NV you have to take a refresher course every five years. It's more about safety than anything and only 3-4 hours and keeps you u[dated on new laws etc.

 

[Waffles]

Another vote for alien gear. That's what I use with my m&p shield. [emoji106]

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[Joker]

Stupidest comment of the day.

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It actually makes sense since all the dummies i ever see open carry are in Wal Mart.


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[dave29]

I carry a Ruger LCP2 in .380 every day in a Desantis Super Fly pocket holster. In my front pocket it looks like a phone.
When offroading, S&W revolver in .45 auto, the Jerry M model with a few extra moon clips.
Get a concealed carry for sure!!!!!!!

 

[Old Texan]

Buy a copy of the "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad F Ayoob.
Read it. Its cheap, a super easy read and unbelievably enlightening.
He's an ex cop and gives a ton of incredibly valuable perspective as well as eye opening info.

Should be 101 material for anyone contemplating carrying.

UD

Great read. Ayoob is an expert witness and historian. He has analyzed many many shootings and what went right and wrong. American Handgunner monthly column.

 

[BONER]

I've had great luck with Stealthgear. Super comfy and soaks up all of that sweat on those hot AZ days.

 

[Old Texan]

Carrying isn't the easiest thing to do lots of times. I, like many guys carry a gear bag. Canvas messenger bag that has lots of stuff in it including my gun and a tactical knife.

Jimmy Buffet wrote a chapter or two in one of his books about choosing the right gear bag. Lots of choices. He at that time settled on a leather mailman's bag. He tried all kinds of bags prior to finding the one he liked. Pilots often have pretty cool bags great for guns and Jimmy flies a lot.

My messenger bag holds a notebook, couple sets of glasses, a few utility tools, etc. Not that heavy and no one gives it a second look. Throw it over my shoulder and set it between my feet in restaurants and bars. Gun is secure yet accessible. Doesn't work everywhere but to me it's a great and comfortable alternative.

 

[BONER]

With modern defensive loads, “knock down powa” is a myth perpetuated by emotion with literally no data to back it up.

There’s very little ballistic difference between 9mm, .40 and .45, and this is proven by many, many studies that include actual shootings.



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You're confusing ballistics with end results. Ballistics are very different. End result is the same.

 

[Old Texan]

With modern defensive loads, “knock down powa” is a myth perpetuated by emotion with literally no data to back it up.

There’s very little ballistic difference between 9mm, .40 and .45, and this is proven by many, many studies that include actual shootings.



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I reload all 3 and produce some hot 9mm stuff that will knock shit out of a perp as well as a 45ACP.....Why I like the 9mm is the 17 rounds. Love 1911's but ya need 2 mags to have that many rounds in case one was to attract a crowd of idiots.

 

[Old Texan]

And yet there's a Guns & Ammo section and not an SUP section.

Hey Grads, tell us what you use for knock down weight in your purse to subdue a bad guy.....Or do you just carry around a golf club? Prefer a wedge or a driver?

Then again you seem more like a putter type.

 

[River Lynchmob]

Carrying isn't the easiest thing to do lots of times. I, like many guys carry a gear bag. Canvas messenger bag that has lots of stuff in it including my gun and a tactical knife.

Jimmy Buffet wrote a chapter or two in one of his books about choosing the right gear bag. Lots of choices. He at that time settled on a leather mailman's bag. He tried all kinds of bags prior to finding the one he liked. Pilots often have pretty cool bags great for guns and Jimmy flies a lot.

My messenger bag holds a notebook, couple sets of glasses, a few utility tools, etc. Not that heavy and no one gives it a second look. Throw it over my shoulder and set it between my feet in restaurants and bars. Gun is secure yet accessible. Doesn't work everywhere but to me it's a great and comfortable alternative.

Are you legally allowed to carry in a bar in Texas?

 

[GRADS]

Hey Grads, tell us what you use for knock down weight in your purse to subdue a bad guy.....Or do you just carry around a golf club? Prefer a wedge or a driver?

Then again you seem more like a putter type.

How many bad guys have you had to subdue?

 

[WhatExit?]

I appreciate everyone’s responses and input - it’s informative and helpful.

DRAGS, I get that you’re THE attention whore on RDP but when you post whiney “I’m reporting you to the mods/RD” shit like this you’re acting like a 9-year old and this is no place for a child (and members shouldn’t have to tolerate your old and tired act).

And yet there's a Guns & Ammo section and not an SUP section.

 

[BoatCop]

Most defensive shootings occur within 7 yards (21 feet). You should train "point and shoot" at distances here and under. Above this requires sight alignment. You should train through the sight above 7 yards. And rather than just standing on line, killing paper, you need to put up obstructions, cover, concealment, shooting on the fly, on approach and while retreating, strong hand, weak hand, switching mags, malfunction drills, multiple targets, and anything and everything else you can think of.

Shootings don't take place just standing there in a weaver stance eyes fixated on the sight.

 

[Old Texan]

Are you legally allowed to carry in a bar in Texas?

Well I'll just leave it at there's a few roadhouses and ice houses that a fella might just keep a pistol handy......

But legally it goes like this:
51% Sign

Under Texas law you cannot carry a firearm into a bar.

You’ll know it’s a bar because bars are required by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission to post 51% signs indicating that the establishment derives more than 51% of its revenue through the sale of alcohol for on-site consumption.

A 51% sign will feature a 51% in large red numbers notifying you that carrying a handgun on the premises is a felony of the third degree.

This means that carrying into a 51% establishment could land you between 2 and 10 years in prison and up to a $10,000 fine.

What about the bar area of restaurants?

If it is a true restaurant, and they don’t derive 51% or more of their sales from the sale of alcohol for on-site consumption, you can carry anywhere inside of that restaurant–even the bar area. Basically, the whole building is either 51% or it isn’t.

How many bad guys have you had to subdue?

None where I used a gun. Several where I got physical and made him cry for his momma. A drunk girl or two.

You?

 

[pronstar]

You're confusing ballistics with end results. Ballistics are very different. End result is the same.

I’m referring to wound ballistic data, from actual wounds delivered in actual shootings.

What is “end results” and where can that data be found?




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[GRADS]

I appreciate everyone’s responses and input - it’s informative and helpful.

DRAGS, I get that you’re THE attention whore on RDP but when you post whiney “I’m reporting you to the mods/RD” shit like this you’re acting like a 9-year old and this is no place for a child (and members shouldn’t have to tolerate your old and tired act).

If I'm not mistaken you brought me into this thread in the very first post.

 

[GRADS]

You?

None so I really don't see a need for a gun to "subdue a bad guy".

 

[Ballyhoo]

Federal HST rounds in all my CCW's. 9 and 45

With modern defensive loads, “knock down powa” is a myth perpetuated by emotion with literally no data to back it up.

There’s very little ballistic difference between 9mm, .40 and .45, and this is proven by many, many studies that include actual shootings.

Right.

Shot placement is what is important. Handgun calibers, not so much.

If you KNOW that you are going into a gunfight, take a rifle not a handgun.



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[BONER]

What is “end results” and where can that data be found?




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Not sure where you can find the Data. Dead People don't say shit.

 

[2Driver]

Just get a Glock 23. It’s a 40.

Good round for bear, mt lion and ass clowns.

Then take a good CCW class and understand how your life will be negatively impacted forever if you ever use it in defense.

Yeah, its better than being dead but you better make damn sure anyone, even a lib, would agree you were in the right when you used it, as that is what the jury is going to be made of. After the media and social media is done with you and the story you are going to be ruined. Be wise with it and ultra conservative. It needs to be the last thing you do before you would certainly die.

My 02

 

[pronstar]

Not sure where you can find the Data. Dead People don't say shit.

So no data, just your opinion.
Got it [emoji106]

But data from fatal shootings is, actually, collected and analyzed.

Barring a brain hit, the difference between the three rounds is negligible, with penetration thru vital organs and how quickly the subject bleeds-out being the biggest factor.

At least according to the data.


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[River Lynchmob]

None where I used a gun. Several where I got physical and made him cry for his momma. A drunk girl or two.

You?

He couldn't subdue heartburn.

 

[BONER]

So no data, just your opinion.
Got it [emoji106]

But data from fatal shootings is, actually, collected and analyzed.

Barring a brain hit, the difference between the three rounds is negligible, with penetration thru vital organs and how quickly the subject bleeds-out being the biggest factor.

At least according to the data.


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My opinion? Lol.

Have somebody shoot you with a 9mm, then a .40, then a .45. What do you think the "end result" is going to be? Is it going to be "just my opinion", or are you going to need some serious medical attention or more than likely dead?

Buddy, all I'm trying to say is if you carry a .380, or a 10mm, it will do the trick either way.

Cheers.

 

[River Runnin]

I, like many guys carry a gear bag.

Is this a Man Purse?!

 

[pronstar]

My opinion? Lol.

Have somebody shoot you with a 9mm, then a .40, then a .45. What do you think the "end result" is going to be? Is it going to be "just my opinion", or are you going to need some serious medical attention or more than likely dead?

So the facts needed to support your opinion that one caliber is superior to another, is predicated on me getting shot three times, by three different bullets?

I’m not sure if I’m down with your methodology.

So I’ll just rely on data collected from countless fatal and non-fatal shootings, and the near-unanimous opinions of well-respected experts in the field.

There’s little to no difference in the “end result” from 45acp, 40 and 9mm.

One caliber has no superiority when using modern, defensive loads. They’re statistically equal.


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[dribble]

Well I'll just leave it at there's a few roadhouses and ice houses that a fella might just keep a pistol handy......

But legally it goes like this:
51% Sign

Under Texas law you cannot carry a firearm into a bar.

You’ll know it’s a bar because bars are required by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission to post 51% signs indicating that the establishment derives more than 51% of its revenue through the sale of alcohol for on-site consumption.

A 51% sign will feature a 51% in large red numbers notifying you that carrying a handgun on the premises is a felony of the third degree.

This means that carrying into a 51% establishment could land you between 2 and 10 years in prison and up to a $10,000 fine.

What about the bar area of restaurants?

If it is a true restaurant, and they don’t derive 51% or more of their sales from the sale of alcohol for on-site consumption, you can carry anywhere inside of that restaurant–even the bar area. Basically, the whole building is either 51% or it isn’t.




None where I used a gun. Several where I got physical and made him cry for his momma. A drunk girl or two.

You?

Interesting. In CA there is no specific law that prohibits carrying into a bar. There is a restriction on your CCW that says you can't carry into an establishment who's PRIMARY function is to serve alcohol. There is not a 51% rule nor are there signs posted. I carry into to establishments that serve food and alcohol all the time. I don't know what their ratio is and neither does LE. You cannot consume any alcohol while carrying though.


As stated on my license:

While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee
shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon:
• Consume any alcoholic beverage.
• Be in a place having a primary purpose of dispensing alcoholic beverages for on-site consumption.

If I were to get caught carrying into a bar without food service, the worst thing that could happen is that I would lose my permit.

 

[coz]

Just get a Glock 23. It’s a 40.

Good round for bear, mt lion and ass clowns.

Then take a good CCW class and understand how your life will be negatively impacted forever if you ever use it in defense.

Yeah, its better than being dead but you better make damn sure anyone, even a lib, would agree you were in the right when you used it, as that is what the jury is going to be made of. After the media and social media is done with you and the story you are going to be ruined. Be wise with it and ultra conservative. It needs to be the last thing you do before you would certainly die.

My 02

Best thing I've read on this thread, also because you can carry here in Az there's still a lot of places you can't. Another thing, when and if you get pulled over and you have a gun it's not going to be a quick traffic stop, they'll get you out, get the gun then check you out in every way to make sure you can legally own a gun, even with or without a ccw.

 

[robby dmax]

I’ve had my CCW in CA and AZ for a few years now. I carry my Glock 27 iwb at 3 o’clock which I’ve found to be the most comfortable and easiest to grab. I’m my opinion get a .40 and not a 9mm so you have some true knock down power. Shooting a tweaker charging at you with a 9mm won’t do much. I’ve tried several holsters and really like my Vedder kydex iwb because it’s minimal and comfortable. Also get yourself a belt from 5.11 tactical so you have something strong to clip it on. Make sure you take a few CCW specific courses and keep practicing!


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All I can say about your 40 Cal is you better hope to God it doesn't go threw that person and then strike an innocent bystander.