NYC- assassination of United Healthcare CEO

[Activated]

I see similarities, some of its lighting, camera angle etc, but it could be the same guy. It’s not like one is a 6’6” 400lb black guy and one is 5’8” 150lb white guy.

What I don’t get however is how anyone recognized him eating at McDonald’s. He’s not the only guy with thick eyebrows. Was that enough for some McDonald’s employee to call the cops? Idk

I also highly doubt that if the Pelosi’s decided to assassinate someone, they’re not hiring this idiot to do it.

I think they recognized him because he was wearing the hospital mask. If we would have ditched the mask, they probably would not have noticed him. No one is still wearing masks…well except this idiot.

 

[was thatguy]

Have the trial this afternoon.
You guys totally miss the point of this guy inciting for the next several years. Sorry,that just my opinion I’m stating on your forum.

I still don’t get the laser focus on this crime.
Dude was a CEO of a vilified industry, not the president of the USA.
What about this warrants a departure from constitutional due process and elevates it to a qualifying event for an unheard of legal process in this country of ours?
Because the news says so?
People have already all but forgotten the attempts on Trumps life…a few more drone reports and this entire incident will be yesterday’s forgotten news.
Can you name the Trump shooter without looking it up?
What about the second guy at the golf course?

 

[traquer]

I think they recognized him because he was wearing the hospital mask. If we would have ditched the mask, they probably would not have noticed him. No one is still wearing masks…well except this idiot.

I was just thinking that! Especially in Pennsylvania. You're not in lib NYC or Portland... I'd assume masks are very rare to see these days unless you see an asian tourist

 

[Gelcoater]

No one is still wearing masks…well except this idiot.

Not true.
I see them often.

Just since Thanksgiving.
I’ve seen people walking down the street, or at the park alone. Masked.
Driving. Alone. Masked.
Some food servers. Masked.

If they make eye contact I smile and chuckle.

 

[RichL]

If the guy is carrying that much evidence 5 days later, I beg to differ.

Just for the sake of argument, he " in theory " could be like some people we know. Both are extremely intelligent, but not a lick of common sense between them. Dunno.

 

[Outdrive1]

I think they recognized him because he was wearing the hospital mask. If we would have ditched the mask, they probably would not have noticed him. No one is still wearing masks…well except this idiot.

That makes a lot more sense. Then he looked just like the pictures.

 

[Outdrive1]

Just for the sake of argument, he " in theory " could be like some people we know. Both are extremely intelligent, but not a lick of common sense between them. Dunno.

Point taken. Obviously he has a masters in something they said.

 

[wzuber]

“We got him!!!”

View attachment 1459177 View attachment 1459178

Eugene Levies brother did it?
Damn, I would never thought that. He's such a nice simple man. Oh, and highly educated too.....

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Eugene Levies brother did it?
Damn, I would never thought that. He's such a nice simple man. Oh, and highly educated too.....

Son. Im pretty sure Eugene is a bit too old to be his brother. lol!

 

[TrollerDave]

I don't think this Mangione guy "Feels So Good" You have to be older to get it.

Every time I hear that name or open this thread, pops right not my head. It’s funny, I was about 4 when it came out, so not that old.

 

[Activated]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-media-max-width="560"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The internet: DEFEATED [UNDEFEATED] <a href="https://t.co/2faSZtkZjP">pic.twitter.com/2faSZtkZjP</a></p>&mdash; Amiri King (@AmiriKing) <a href="

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">December 12, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Orange Juice]

Every time I hear that name or open this thread, pops right not my head. It’s funny, I was about 4 when it came out, so not that old.

The flugelhorn player.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Have the trial this afternoon.
You guys totally miss the point of this guy inciting for the next several years. Sorry,that just my opinion I’m stating on your forum.

I'm just a guest here.

Look if we wanna go all pioneer justice, let's make it fair. Perhaps this was the shooters mindset as well. The CEO was guilty of something right? Judge, Jury and Executioner.
We have this fantastic little document that makes us the greatest country in the world, let's keep that 5th amendment in play so we don't become savages shall we?

 

[regor]

 

[Travmon]

There is a whole lot of questions so far to consider.
1. His college studies were in computer science, yet unaware that there are cameras recording damn near everything in New York.
2. DNA is not such a new science and investigative tool that he new nothing about leaving it behind
3. According to sources he had become recluse over the last year or two. WHY ?
4. Whats the real deal on his medical issues and did united healthcare have any part of ?
5. Were pain meds turning into a habit.
I am under the belief that something caused him to look right past what may be common sense to us and power down on the mission without thinking about the inability to move around america without showing up on video or elimination of evidence. Like I said lots of questions???

 

[RVRKID]

 

[rmarion]

Mike Wyatt on Instagram

4,541 likes, 202 comments - ohshititsmikewyatt on December 12, 2024

www.instagram.com

allegedly..

 

[was thatguy]

Mike Wyatt on Instagram

4,541 likes, 202 comments - ohshititsmikewyatt on December 12, 2024

www.instagram.com

allegedly..

“Silence!!! That is NOT what CNN said!!”

On that same day, according to the average rate, 55-65 other people were also shot and killed in the US.
Has the media named a single one of them?
Why does this guy get the full court press?

 

[530RL]

I'm just a guest here.

Look if we wanna go all pioneer justice, let's make it fair. Perhaps this was the shooters mindset as well. The CEO was guilty of something right? Judge, Jury and Executioner.
We have this fantastic little document that makes us the greatest country in the world, let's keep that 5th amendment in play so we don't become savages shall we?

You bring up a great point. For example.

The victim grew up lower middle class with a mother who was a hairdresser and a father who worked in a grain silo for 40 years. His parents worked hard, sent the kid to school, he works hard and achieves the American dream of becoming a CEO of a large American company. Yet many in America say he is an elitist denying care and deserves what he got. The son of a hairdresser and a grain silo operator who worked his ass off is an elitist?

Meanwhile the shooter grew up in total privilege, two Ivy League degrees and never had to work or miss a meaL. Yet many in America say he is a populist and a hero who did right.

Keeping that document in mind requires the ability to look at things objectivley. I’m not sure we are still there?

 

[was thatguy]

You bring up a great point. For example.

The victim grew up lower middle class with a mother who was a hairdresser and a father who worked in a grain silo for 40 years. His parents worked hard, sent the kid to school, he works hard and achieves the American dream of becoming a CEO of a large American company. Yet many in America say he is an elitist denying care and deserves what he got. The son of a hairdresser and a grain silo operator who worked his ass off is an elitist?

Meanwhile the shooter grew up in total privilege, two Ivy League degrees and never had to work or miss a meaL. Yet many in America say he is a populist and a hero who did right.

Keeping that document in mind requires the ability to look at things objectivley. I’m not sure we are still there?

Gotta say…your ability to selectively apply our constitution to fit your narrative is god damned impressive.
I, of course, ain’t falling for it.

 

[traquer]

You bring up a great point. For example.

The victim grew up lower middle class with a mother who was a hairdresser and a father who worked in a grain silo for 40 years. His parents worked hard, sent the kid to school, he works hard and achieves the American dream of becoming a CEO of a large American company. Yet many in America say he is an elitist denying care and deserves what he got. The son of a hairdresser and a grain silo operator who worked his ass off is an elitist?

Meanwhile the shooter grew up in total privilege, two Ivy League degrees and never had to work or miss a meaL. Yet many in America say he is a populist and a hero who did right.

Keeping that document in mind requires the ability to look at things objectivley. I’m not sure we are still there?

I don't think that's much of a point, Hitler came from a middle class family and Stalin came from a dirt poor family and both were hard workers. Doesn't mean much.

But this is a different scenario of course because the CEO didn't create the system himself. So it's more of a "don't hate the player hate the game" scenario as an inmate here rightly pointed out earlier. But if the game is so messed up, how does the majority population change a game like this which it doesn't agree with? One certainly can't vote their way out of it, the same way Californians can't vote out all the bullshit that they never voted for in the first place.

I know it's quite barbaric and I'm not advocating for such, but the quote "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" is an interesting concept. Even if just metaphorically. It means that overlords at all levels occasionally need to be reminded of the fact that their rule isn't absolute and they aren't immune to consequences, that they shouldn't push their luck after a certain point.

I once had a really good employee who I overworked a bit during a busy time and I didn't treat quite right due to some personal reasons.. Well he started being a bit flakey and signaling to me, just a little bit, that I need him more than he needs me. I changed things up quick and he got a nice raise soon after. All was well and he stayed on for years. I'm just a small time boss... But the big bosses in government and the corporate world never feel this kind of feedback from their "customers" that would impact their personal life. So this is what I'm talking about if it makes sense.

I don't have any answers, but wanted to share my contrasting opinion. America is still the greatest and freest country on Earth, but it's a far cry from where it was and where it could again be!

 

[was thatguy]

I don't think that's much of a point, Hitler came from a middle class family and Stalin came from a dirt poor family and both were hard workers. Doesn't mean much.

But this is a different scenario of course because the CEO didn't create the system himself. So it's more of a "don't hate the player hate the game" scenario as an inmate here rightly pointed out earlier. But if the game is so messed up, how does the majority population change a game like this which it doesn't agree with? One certainly can't vote their way out of it, the same way Californians can't vote out all the bullshit that they never voted for in the first place.

I know it's quite barbaric and I'm not advocating for such, but the quote "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" is an interesting concept. Even if just metaphorically. It means that overlords at all levels occasionally need to be reminded of the fact that their rule isn't absolute and they aren't immune to consequences, that they shouldn't push their luck after a certain point.

I once had a really good employee who I overworked a bit during a busy time and I didn't treat quite right due to some personal reasons.. Well he started being a bit flakey and signaling to me, just a little bit, that I need him more than he needs me. I changed things up quick and he got a nice raise soon after. All was well and he stayed on for years. I'm just a small time boss... But the big bosses in government and the corporate world never feel this kind of feedback from their "customers" that would impact their personal life. So this is what I'm talking about if it makes sense.

I don't have any answers, but wanted to share my contrasting opinion. America is still the greatest and freest country on Earth, but it's a far cry from where it was and where it could again be!

Yeah he outperformed his own father too, once done with the charter school board anyway, so there is that…

 

[Cray Paper]

You bring up a great point. For example.

The victim grew up lower middle class with a mother who was a hairdresser and a father who worked in a grain silo for 40 years. His parents worked hard, sent the kid to school, he works hard and achieves the American dream of becoming a CEO of a large American company. Yet many in America say he is an elitist denying care and deserves what he got. The son of a hairdresser and a grain silo operator who worked his ass off is an elitist?

Meanwhile the shooter grew up in total privilege, two Ivy League degrees and never had to work or miss a meaL. Yet many in America say he is a populist and a hero who did right.

Keeping that document in mind requires the ability to look at things objectivley. I’m not sure we are still there?

I think you are proving a point you didn't realize you would. Why would a silver spoon fed person execute a person that came from much less privilege? The killer had zero financial hardship or motivation from real life experience to attempt to justify his actions. What were the influences in his life that led him to believe killing this guy was justified? THAT is the question for you.

Trust me, I do not condone the execution of this CEO but do understand why someone would given real life trauma caused by his companies actions. But that isn't the case here.

Back to the main question, why did this killer believe he was justified in killing the CEO of a major healthcare conglomerate and where did his believes come from?

 

[DWC]

Back to the main question, why did this killer believe he was justified in killing the CEO of a major healthcare conglomerate and where did his believes come from?

Where do you think they came from?

 

[Cray Paper]

Mental health issues to start, indoctrination of morals from the hard left while in college that justified his self-gratifying execution of someone, he believed was an evil pinnacle of private industry greed. As I said, I understand how fucked up the health care industry is, and don't condone what he did, but understand it somewhat. Our healthcare system is broken, and fingers can be pointed several ways. I don't know the right answer but do know it wasn't this fucked up before Obama Care.

We as a country need to focus on mental health first. Get that program squared away then administer the drug addicts to a mental health facility that is capable that is located far away from the illegal drug trade and really help these people. Drugs are the #1 cause of our chaos, take the others to a mental health Institiute that has a track record of making a difference and keep them there until there. When a counselor says they are ready for reintroduction to society, the patient should live with the counselor / social worker for 6 months.

I know in my home state of Washington, our left wing-controlled governance has shit the bed for 20 years so badley the Fed has unfunded the Democrat run Western States Mental Hospital. Did the Dipshit Governor Jay Inslee pay a price for his ineptness? Nope, he served 3 terms and his much more energetic and farther left replacement is gearing up for much more of the same idiotic destruction of what it takes for a civilized society.

Hope I answered your query DWC.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Just a reminder for all, let's not forget everyone's favorite Republican Ronnie Ray-Gun greatly influenced our current mental health crisis both as a Governor and a President. This is one area we don't get to blame democrats alone.

 

[rivrrts429]

Just a reminder for all, let's not forget everyone's favorite Republican Ronnie Ray-Gun greatly influenced our current mental health crisis both as a Governor and a President. This is one area we don't get to blame democrats alone.

I think you could go back to Kennedy beginning the process. Ronald then drug it across the finish line.

 

[was thatguy]

In this Country, we are allowed to think, say, and do crazy things, within the boundaries of the law, without actually being legally crazy.
It’s part of our 1st amendment rights.
Most of us on here do stuff that many other people might consider crazy, like buy airplanes, race boats, jump 4 wheelers, and on and on. Hell a lot of people here think others are crazy for their opinions, while those people think the others are crazy for not seeing things the same way that they do. (Just reverse that statement to take the opposing view)
Doing something that seems crazy to most others and even to society as a whole does not make a person legally crazy.
What we are NOT allowed to do is infringe on anyone else’s legal rights…like murdering them or blowing shit up and what have you. We have strict laws and punishments for those types of things.
This kid is not crazy, the unibomber was not crazy, even most serial killers are not crazy.
How is that possible one might ask, since they did all that crazy stuff?

They all knew what they were doing was wrong and illegal.
They all did not want to be caught.
That is generally the legal doctrine for being nuts when examining an act like this murder, and judging it in court.
We, as a societal mob, like to use the catch phrase “mental health” to encompass and compartmentalize abhorrent behavior.
It makes us the normal ones, but it’s not always accurate.

The courts judge this way over and over and over.
If you know the difference between legal and illegal, right and wrong according to the law, then you are responsible for your actions.

I think it’s crazy that we as a society impose a narrow cattle chute of acceptable behavior on our kids for instance.
It seems every kid in school has some sort of disorder that requires therapy and medication to make them “normal”, according to any school shrink with a cereal box degree.
It often backfires spectacularly as they are taught their entire lives that they are not “normal” and are not in control of their own responsibility. (Its not their fault because they are crazy).
We see that a lot when kids go school shooting.

Here’s a perfect example of society engineering a mass murderer.

So Luigi Mangione never displayed any questionable behavior in the past, in fact he is the poster boy for privileged upbringing… he tried to disguise himself during the crime, he tried to evade and did for 5 days, none of that is the act of a crazy person, legally speaking.
That is the act of a person that made a conscious decision to break the law and murder a man with an effort to get away with it.

If “we” locked up every person that “we” think is crazy guess what?
Every single one of “us” would be locked up.
And when they get around to you, there will be no one left to speak for you because they’re all locked up.
Kind of like N Korea.

If we judge them all as crazy, then none ever pay for their crimes. We’ll just replace prisons with puzzle palaces.

Reagan knew this.

 

[500bbc]

I think you could go back to Kennedy beginning the process. Ronald then drug it across the finish line.

Kennedy and big pharma who claimed they cured mental illness with drugs.

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

Kennedy and big pharma who claimed they cured menatl illness with drugs.

Is this the same group that spent the 60s experimenting with LSD and electroshock therapies and experimental brain surgeries?

 

[wzuber]

Is this the same group that spent the 60s experimenting with LSD and electroshock therapies and experimental brain surgeries?

Well, gotta work with the tools and materials ya have available I guess? Haha
Experiments are fun...

 

[Ziggy]

Maybe we should consider him innocent until proven guilty?

Why would you go through the trouble of 3D printing a gun and keep it for more then 45 seconds after the event? That makes no sense.

If the guy is carrying that much evidence 5 days later, I beg to differ.

Someone who believes he's too smart to be caught.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Just a reminder for all, let's not forget everyone's favorite Republican Ronnie Ray-Gun greatly influenced our current mental health crisis both as a Governor and a President. This is one area we don't get to blame democrats alone.

There are still many mental health facilities around but organizations like the ACLU prevent anyone from getting committed.

 

[monkeyswrench]

There are still many mental health facilities around but organizations like the ACLU prevent anyone from getting committed.

I honestly think many of the facilities are more about bleeding the insurance companies and families than they are about helping those in need. There are good ones, and there are bad ones. I think it's much like elder care facilities.

 

[was thatguy]

Was there behavior in Mangiaones past that would indicate a need of petition for involuntary commitment?
Did I miss that?

 

[Willie B]

Was there behavior in Mangiaones past that would indicate a need of petition for involuntary commitment?
Did I miss that?

… pretty sure he was convinced that he could outsmart the entire system…But found out the hard way…he couldn’t get past the burger flipping system… Where the burger flippers have to live in present time and generally are aware of finite details as they flip burgers… I probably will get some dispute on the awareness of the people who take your orders…dahhh???…

 

[was thatguy]

Someone who believes he's too smart to be

… pretty sure he was convinced that he could outsmart the entire system…But found out the hard way…he couldn’t get past the burger flipping system… Where the burger flippers have to live in present time and generally are aware of finite details as they flip burgers… I probably will get some dispute on the awareness of the people who take your orders…dahhh???…

What I mean is that there is a lot of talk here about “mental health” and the failure of a system.
I have seen nothing presented that would indicate any reason for this guy to have been involuntarily committed before this crime. Not even a 5150 hold.
My question is did I miss that part?
Because otherwise it’s a moot point.


As far as him thinking he was too smart to get caught, I think it’s probably more that he is simply woefully unaware of how cops catch killers these days. He probably didnt think he was too smart, he really didn’t make it too hard for them. Maybe he thought it wouldn’t be the big deal that was made of it? I don’t think he foresaw the media frenzy.
Or maybe figured he’d just blend in with the other, more brazen murders in NYC? (1.3 murders per day on average in 2020)
A guy like Ted Kaczynski (an actual IQ level genius) thinks he’s too smart to get caught, even Dennis Raider (BTK) thought he was too smart to get caught.
A true psychopath like Dahmer never once even considered being caught or even hiding his crimes. That’s what a true crazy person does.

So, what behavior did this Luigi character display before the murder that would suggest any reason for a psychiatric involuntary commitment?

I’m asking seriously.
If my opinion is off base maybe the cops here can chime in?

 

[DRYHEAT]

I honestly think many of the facilities are more about bleeding the insurance companies and families than they are about helping those in need. There are good ones, and there are bad ones. I think it's much like elder care facilities.

All part of the medical industrial complex. the legal/judicial industrial complex has ruined everything. Don’t know what the answer is but the little guy always gets the short end of the stick.

 

[Ducksquasher]

I think you could go back to Kennedy beginning the process. Ronald then drug it across the finish line.

True...but wasn't it also Reagan cutting it out of the Federal budget and placing the expectation to run these institutions on the State level? Smaller government with States handling their business...not the Feds driving it? I know that there was more to it but wasn't that the gist of it?

 

[4Waters]

True...but wasn't it also Reagan cutting it out of the Federal budget and placing the expectation to run these institutions on the State level? Smaller government with States handling their business...not the Feds driving it? I know that there was more to it but wasn't that the gist of it?

Yes, and the states didn't want to pay to run them so they closed them down and here we are. It should be the states issue

 

[monkeyswrench]

What I mean is that there is a lot of talk here about “mental health” and the failure of a system.
I have seen nothing presented that would indicate any reason for this guy to have been involuntarily committed before this crime. Not even a 5150 hold.
My question is did I miss that part?
Because otherwise it’s a moot point.


As far as him thinking he was too smart to get caught, I think it’s probably more that he is simply woefully unaware of how cops catch killers these days. He probably didnt think he was too smart, he really didn’t make it too hard for them. Maybe he thought it wouldn’t be the big deal that was made of it? I don’t think he foresaw the media frenzy.
Or maybe figured he’d just blend in with the other, more brazen murders in NYC? (1.3 murders per day on average in 2020)
A guy like Ted Kaczynski (an actual IQ level genius) thinks he’s too smart to get caught, even Dennis Raider (BTK) thought he was too smart to get caught.
A true psychopath like Dahmer never once even considered being caught or even hiding his crimes. That’s what a true crazy person does.

So, what behavior did this Luigi character display before the murder that would suggest any reason for a psychiatric involuntary commitment?

I’m asking seriously.
If my opinion is off base maybe the cops here can chime in?

My statement(s) about mental health in this thread are not in any relation to this guy. I'm kind of the understanding that if someone makes no attempt to hide, or has no concept of right and wrong, that would be "crazy" or not competent to stand trial. By hiding his face, fleeing the scene and then the state, I think he knew there were consequences for his actions. The "right from wrong" part. If he were crazy, as defined by "normal" people, I'd think the shooter would stand there, proclaiming his actions a tremendous victory for humanity, proud. I'm not saying this guy is quite right mentally, but who really is, or who really determines that?

 

[rivrrts429]

True...but wasn't it also Reagan cutting it out of the Federal budget and placing the expectation to run these institutions on the State level? Smaller government with States handling their business...not the Feds driving it? I know that there was more to it but wasn't that the gist of it?

That’s definitely the gist. The states, to @4Waters point, decided to defund and send the money to verticals like Lifeguards and homeless instead.

 

[Orange Juice]

Is this the same group that spent the 60s experimenting with LSD and electroshock therapies and experimental brain surgeries?

Yes. No pain, no gain.

 

[Flyinbowtie]

As far as the crime goes, if the cops running it are at all worth their wages we don't know the whole story, far from it. ANY time a major investigation is under way you NEVER disclose what you know until it is on paper and completely ready to go. There is no reason to let the suspect (s) know what you know.
Holding your cards close will sometimes even get you more than you had at the deal.
Investigations 101.
So...I agree there are a lot of questions here, and I suspect there are already good answers to those questions, but it will be awhile before the info gets out to the general public.
Regarding various conspiracies.
Things have changed in this country a lot over the past few decades. Ideas we would have never taken seriously back then have, with time, proven to be factual.
People play fast and loose with the truth, and anymore it seems that when looking at case it would behoove a cop to not toss out any possibility, to not make a critical mistake and come up with a theory then create facts to support it....another huge mistake...a rookie mistake as well.
We live in a time where a failed president who is suffering from mental issues that make him incapable of any level of critical thinking has pardoned his son for crimes he committed and others he may hove committed over a decade plus.
And he isn't done yet.
It appears nothing is too bizarre to be real anymore.

Mental health in this country has been an afterthought for over 50 years. The reason is pretty simple.
There is no money in it for the politicians to make it worth fixing. Nothing happens with out them finding a way to line their pockets.
I give you Biden, Pelosi, Newsom, Obama, The Clinton Syndicate, etc as examples.
Without those two factors politicians do nothing. Especially the left.
I wrote letters til I was blue in the face about this.
I. personally, took many people to be evaluated for crisis intervention who were in need of help.
The crisis worker would get a "verbal contract" with these folks and send them out the door. In one case, as myself, the "Worker" and the victim were walking out the door of the ER the victim reached out and picked up a handful of cigarette butts out of a butt can and ate them.
Crisis worker pretended it didn't happen.
I gave the victim a ride home.
Two weeks later we got a 911 call from his home.
He had severed his penis with a broken bottle.
A few months later he was able to take his own life.

There is now money in treatment, and money in drug rehab, so it is getting some attention. The fact remains, tho. If someone is in psychosis and it can at all be linked to drug use the MH people do all they can to get them in jail, not treatment.

Thanks to the lax laws we have had, especially in calif and other lib states, we have record numbers of humans living on the streets of our cities, and crime is off the hook to the point even San Francisco has begun to have second thoughts about their enlightened approach to law enforcement.
Arrogance. Their arrogance has literally brought them to this place. Watch closely, tho...they will never admit fault for their failures, or responsibility for the disaster they have created. They will tell you they simply need more time, and lots more money to implement their fix. Their fix is perfect...just needs more money and time.
Arrogance.
I don't know if we can ever print enough money to fix it, but somehow we can try.
It seems something happened in November. We shall see. Perhaps, just perhaps, there are enough Americans left to make it happen for real.
I hate to be cynical, but my cynicism has served me well over the years. The socialist progressive infestation in this country has to be purged.
Purging Socialism and communism need to become the focus of a national campaign like smoking was. It has to start in the schools, which means major change there, too.

 

[was thatguy]

My statement(s) about mental health in this thread are not in any relation to this guy. I'm kind of the understanding that if someone makes no attempt to hide, or has no concept of right and wrong, that would be "crazy" or not competent to stand trial. By hiding his face, fleeing the scene and then the state, I think he knew there were consequences for his actions. The "right from wrong" part. If he were crazy, as defined by "normal" people, I'd think the shooter would stand there, proclaiming his actions a tremendous victory for humanity, proud. I'm not saying this guy is quite right mentally, but who really is, or who really determines that?

Exactly my point. Although cheering for the camera would probably fall more under crusader status…like isis?


The state of the so called “mental health” system (good or bad) would seem to have zero impact or effect in this case, as he did nothing before hand to suggest a murder was imminent.
It’s almost become a cliche’ to blame everything on the “mental health crisis”.
I’m no bleeding heart ACLU flag waver, but I do recognize their overall mission to protect citizens rights.
A lot of times it’s for people we want to stone to death, but typically it’s for those who can’t help themselves.

At the end of the day our rights are all we really have.
As Larry Flynt famously said after the SC ruled in his favor on his initial 1st amendment case: “If it works for me, it’ll work for you too…because, you see, I’m the worst”.

We can’t just lock people up for things they say or write.
Unless they are a viable threat to themselves or others.
Even a 5150 is what? 72 hours? Then it takes a shrink to evaluate.

Are there people that are obviously fucked up? Absolutely.
But it is a slippery slope when you start locking people up for acting “crazy”.
Or for things they haven’t done.
“The minority report” comes to mind.

These are some of the costs for our free nation.

 

[was thatguy]

As far as the crime goes, if the cops running it are at all worth their wages we don't know the whole story, far from it. ANY time a major investigation is under way you NEVER disclose what you know until it is on paper and completely ready to go. There is no reason to let the suspect (s) know what you know.
Holding your cards close will sometimes even get you more than you had at the deal.
Investigations 101.
So...I agree there are a lot of questions here, and I suspect there are already good answers to those questions, but it will be awhile before the info gets out to the general public.
Regarding various conspiracies.
Things have changed in this country a lot over the past few decades. Ideas we would have never taken seriously back then have, with time, proven to be factual.
People play fast and loose with the truth, and anymore it seems that when looking at case it would behoove a cop to not toss out any possibility, to not make a critical mistake and come up with a theory then create facts to support it....another huge mistake...a rookie mistake as well.
We live in a time where a failed president who is suffering from mental issues that make him incapable of any level of critical thinking has pardoned his son for crimes he committed and others he may hove committed over a decade plus.
And he isn't done yet.
It appears nothing is too bizarre to be real anymore.

Mental health in this country has been an afterthought for over 50 years. The reason is pretty simple.
There is no money in it for the politicians to make it worth fixing. Nothing happens with out them finding a way to line their pockets.
I give you Biden, Pelosi, Newsom, Obama, The Clinton Syndicate, etc as examples.
Without those two factors politicians do nothing. Especially the left.
I wrote letters til I was blue in the face about this.
I. personally, took many people to be evaluated for crisis intervention who were in need of help.
The crisis worker would get a "verbal contract" with these folks and send them out the door. In one case, as myself, the "Worker" and the victim were walking out the door of the ER the victim reached out and picked up a handful of cigarette butts out of a butt can and ate them.
Crisis worker pretended it didn't happen.
I gave the victim a ride home.
Two weeks later we got a 911 call from his home.
He had severed his penis with a broken bottle.
A few months later he was able to take his own life.

There is now money in treatment, and money in drug rehab, so it is getting some attention. The fact remains, tho. If someone is in psychosis and it can at all be linked to drug use the MH people do all they can to get them in jail, not treatment.

Thanks to the lax laws we have had, especially in calif and other lib states, we have record numbers of humans living on the streets of our cities, and crime is off the hook to the point even San Francisco has begun to have second thoughts about their enlightened approach to law enforcement.
Arrogance. Their arrogance has literally brought them to this place. Watch closely, tho...they will never admit fault for their failures, or responsibility for the disaster they have created. They will tell you they simply need more time, and lots more money to implement their fix. Their fix is perfect...just needs more money and time.
Arrogance.
I don't know if we can ever print enough money to fix it, but somehow we can try.
It seems something happened in November. We shall see. Perhaps, just perhaps, there are enough Americans left to make it happen for real.
I hate to be cynical, but my cynicism has served me well over the years. The socialist progressive infestation in this country has to be purged.
Purging Socialism and communism need to become the focus of a national campaign like smoking was. It has to start in the schools, which means major change there, too.

Finally! A real professional.
In your opinion, given the info that has been made public, is there any indication of behavior of this guy before the murder that would be cause for even a temp 5150 hold?

You fight crime everyday, is everyone just crazy?

 

[Flyinbowtie]

Retired Tommy...I fought crime every day...no more..

Anyway no, the public info I have seen is not enough for a 5150.

Everyone is not crazy, and everyone who commits a crime is not insane. Contrary to the standard defense bar deal.
Some people just want to commit the crime, some people are hell bent on it.
Some are evil.
Now, if we want to go down a real rabbit hole, then there is the stuff we see happen that is clearly evil. I am a firm believer that there is a metric ton of pure evil in this world. Evil isn't crazy.
I hope that makes sense.

 

[was thatguy]

Retired Tommy...I fought crime every day...no more..

Anyway no, the public info I have seen is not enough for a 5150.

Everyone is not crazy, and everyone who commits a crime is not insane. Contrary to the standard defense bar deal.
Some people just want to commit the crime, some people are hell bent on it.
Some are evil.
Now, if we want to go down a real rabbit hole, then there is the stuff we see happen that is clearly evil. I am a firm believer that there is a metric ton of pure evil in this world. Evil isn't crazy.
I hope that makes sense.

Perfect sense.

 

[Badchoices03]

I heard that there was a second gunman on a grassy knoll.
It has to be true because I heard it.

You can't prove it wrong either, so it must be true....lol

 

[was thatguy]

There was no gunman on a grassy hill.