Not your avg 270.. Boating content

[Nord]

Steve. This is straight from Andrew :
Currently running
A 30 inch left hand prop diffuser cut lab bed finish
We have tried a 34 4 plade and 5 blade
The reason for 30 inch is to stop transom lift the problem is it noes steers past 50 mph
Oh and the engine can handle a 34 blade trust me.

 

[28Eliminator]

Why the drive extension, and monster tabs? Is pushing the prop that far back keeping the bow buried at speed.. Just a thought

 

[HALLETT BOY]

I wonder how it would run with a SCX - 4 lower and proper prop ?

 

[skav]

thanks folks for all the entrys.... we have a winner....^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have the same tabs on my straight bottom. No issues there. They are out of the water when up on plane.

HB has a step bottom w a drive extension too. From what he says, it does not affect his boat.

Mine pushed a lot of water before, and I tried about 10 different props. 4 blades never worked for mine. After my last prop change, I can carry the bow to the point that it just rides on the tail. It's a lot more efficient now too.

 

[RiverDave]

What prop are you running Skav?

 

[skav]

What prop are you running Skav?

I went from a 15" Maximus to a 15 1/4" Maximus. Both were factory labbed with cut rings. I was surprised at how much of a difference a 1/4" made.

The drive is an SCX, with a -2 SC lower. I played around with different spacers, but went back to running the drive wo a spacer with the latest prop.

I'm not running a box.

Here's a picture to show the tabs in full up position. I rarely run them more than neutral-flat.

 

[skav]

Dave,

Here's a thread I started last year about some of the props I've tested. http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102100

 

[spectras only]

Skav,what is the rake degree on your Maximus? Higher rake should help carry the bow. I want to try the 25 Maximus against my Bravo1 26P on my boat and see if I can pick up more speed.

 

[skav]

huh???? thought you said yours ran wet ????it runs wet because those big tabs nose it over....but now if it don't cool...

Tabs are out of the water when it's on plane. No GoPro video, but I've seen it while skiing behind it.

take the tab plates off and try it.... you will have bow rise...

my bet is if you go pro it you will see the tabs touching..... is yous open bow.... they run bow heavy /...

I put the tabs on after the drive and it acted the same before and after.

 

[skav]

Skav,what is the rake degree on your Maximus? Higher rake should help carry the bow. I want to try the 25 Maximus against my Bravo1 26P on my boat and see if I can pick up more speed.

Not sure what the rake is. It's whatever the labs them to.

 

[mbrown2]

Boat was parked next to us at the Sandbar ....very custom/trick....

 

[skav]

I would move those tabs straight up 3'', also , I would run it with out the plates ,... just to see if and when I need them... they are way too big IMHO

Steve,

Take a look at this YouTube video. I made it last year. It shows the tabs up, then in neutral while on plane. I uploaded it in HD, but the quality isn't great. I'll try to upload again later.

I don't see them being too big, or causing an issue.

Here are a couple pictures from the air too.

 

[ka0tyk]

in up position they're not even touching... thanks for the vid. I'm looking at putting kplanes on my boat and wondered how aggressive they are compared to smaller tabs like bennets. mine are only the 280's. do you ever put them in a down position? do you notice quicker planes with em down as many suggest?

 

[hallett21]

Is there a chance that the bottom rework has pushed the CG too far forward causing it to ride on the nose? If that were the case(as 2ff put it) the stand off box would only worsen the problem no? It's a piece of art really hope you guys get it running right. Have you driven it with the tabs removed/can you just remove the plate without messing with the transom mounting? That seems like the next easiest thing to try outside of props. From the sound of it props are only getting it so far.

 

[hallett21]

actually, even the swim step is touching.... if you removed it water would spray up and exhaust would black'n the motor hatch...


but , is you don't wanna know that... it alright with me

Have to agree they look like they are touching water the whole time on my phone.

2ff in your videos how much positive trim are you running?

 

[hallett21]

that's a nice reply.... something easy to try,..

I know you were driving at that lol. Sorry didn't mean to regurgitate the same info

 

[Singleton]

you really don't see them hitting??? or you really don't wanna see them hitting...

I see them hitting on both the video, and the top pic..

easy test is to just remove the plates....

Have to agree, looks like the outside edges are hitting the water. If you watch the water spray behind the tabs something is hitting.

 

[hallett21]

Do nose cones cause transom lift?

 

[skav]

in up position they're not even touching... thanks for the vid. I'm looking at putting kplanes on my boat and wondered how aggressive they are compared to smaller tabs like bennets. mine are only the 280's. do you ever put them in a down position? do you notice quicker planes with em down as many suggest?

I have only put them all the way down when towing a tube, or wake board. They respond a lot quicker than the old Bennett's did, and it comes out pretty good now, so I don't use them to plane.

I like the way they are mounted, because they are constantly dragging like the Bennett's were, and when on plane, I can tab down a bit if needed and just have the outside edge in the water.

 

[krazykelegian]

big AK is stoked that you guys are brainstorming up ideas on what is going on with the boat. he is a lurker on the boards and is up to date on the thread. the boat has been a big learning curve, it has kinda become a school project for us. this past weekend we were going to mount a go pro in the same location as the videos that have been posted in this thread and do some runs with the tabs and drive up and down and all around / also removing the tabs completely but never got around to it. it looks like the tabs will come off after removing 2 bolts. one long bolt holding the tab in place and another holding the ram in place, we planned on zip tying or safety wiring the rams in place but were wondering if we could end up damaging shit... what do you guys think?

 

[RiverDave]

I think the tabs aren't the problem. Lol. But as said before it would be easy to take them off to try it.

I would look at lowering the drive personally, and if possible trying without he extension box.

 

[skav]

I think the tabs aren't the problem. Lol. But as said before it would be easy to take them off to try it.

I would look at lowering the drive personally, and if possible trying without he extension box.

Do you know if it's a neutral box, or -2? Also, is the lower standard or -2?

The reason I ask, is because when I was looking at boxes, IMCO told me that if I used a neutral box, my drive would be 2" lower than it is now.

I asked about a -2" box, but you would need to rise the motor 1" (I think, maybe 1"-2") for proper alignment.

Any idea how Gary set it up?

Also, I'm pretty sure that boat has Gary's billet planes, which have a 10 degree-ish kick on the last 6"-8", where the Mercury planes are flat all the way back.

I'd love to see the video if you get around to it.

 

[krazykelegian]

Do you know if it's a neutral box, or -2? Also, is the lower standard or -2?

The reason I ask, is because when I was looking at boxes, IMCO told me that if I used a neutral box, my drive would be 2" lower than it is now.

I asked about a -2" box, but you would need to rise the motor 1" (I think, maybe 1"-2") for proper alignment.

Any idea how Gary set it up?

Also, I'm pretty sure that boat has Gary's billet planes, which have a 10 degree-ish kick on the last 6"-8", where the Mercury planes are flat all the way back.

I'd love to see the video if you get around to it.

yes the tabs do kick up at the tail end of them

dave i am on your side about the tabs i dont think they are the issue, but it couldnt hurt to check....

we have had some people mention to us that the tabs could be causing a suction effect with the water even if they are not in the water at speeds of 50-60+ ???

skav i will get all the specs today we have tried different spacers and different lowers .....too many different combos for me to remember off the top of me head ill take to big today

 

[krazykelegian]

guess i'll just bow out, or down in this case...too much condridiction

Not at all Steve we appreciate your thoughts on the boat and are gonna pull the tabs off on the next trip ... My dad sides with you on the plates.... I don't have any experience with these things so I am just going off what I am assuming in my head. Gary set up the boat like this from the start (tabs/ ext box and drive). The long tabs came off the previous 270 we had so we slapped em on there.

 

[krazykelegian]

I allways say this,

when you start changing stuff, do one thing at a time...then if some thing doesn't work, you know what it is...

in this case..one would have to rule out the boat it's self first...
so I would first remove the tabs... then the box..
if you hang a drive on the boat and it get all funky... first thing you check is the X ... right..

if you hang the drive, with an extention box, and add monster trim tabs and then it gets all funky...???
now what???

you stil have to go back to a known safe spot....

whats the history on the boat.....why was the bottom worked on ???

lots of questions to be answered to really figure it out

so, what I did was go back to a time and a boat that had a simulare problem...

I came up with the easiest thing to do... listened to the old man and took off the tabs....

We are not sure why the bottom of this boat was customized . It has never had a safe spot to date.

When we first started with the boat it had a mercury ext box with a scx upper and sc lower unit(shorter one)

The boat drove way to wet with any props we tried from 30 to 34 4 or 5 blade. It would push water like a bathtub going down the river

Then we tried a 1/2 in drive spacer witch helped a little on bow lift but not much

3rd try we went to a 1in spacer and also went to the longer sc lower unit this took care of the bathtub problem and allowed the boat to free up but caused very poor handling in turns and and waves

4th try and this is how the boat currently sits we took the spacer out so sxc with longer lower Sc no spacer and running a 30in labbed prop with the defuser ring cut off the boat, with this prop we can blow it out at any given moment, but we have good lift and have been running the tabs all the way up. But In perfect glass you can really feel how much the boat starts to wander around at speeds past 50

 

[krazykelegian]

We haven't messed with other props with the current set up.

 

[Crazyhippy]

I would start playing with props before changing anything else. You can make some BIG changes with just a prop. Just look at how vdrive boats can change prop to prop.

Kevin @ R&R in Vegas would be my call.

 

[575cat]

We are not sure why the bottom of this boat was customized . It has never had a safe spot to date.

When we first started with the boat it had a mercury ext box with a scx upper and sc lower unit(shorter one)

The boat drove way to wet with any props we tried from 30 to 34 4 or 5 blade. It would push water like a bathtub going down the river

Then we tried a 1/2 in drive spacer witch helped a little on bow lift but not much

3rd try we went to a 1in spacer and also went to the longer sc lower unit this took care of the bathtub problem and allowed the boat to free up but caused very poor handling in turns and and waves

4th try and this is how the boat currently sits we took the spacer out so sxc with longer lower Sc no spacer and running a 30in labbed prop with the defuser ring cut off the boat, with this prop we can blow it out at any given moment, but we have good lift and have been running the tabs all the way up. But In perfect glass you can really feel how much the boat starts to wander around at speeds past 50

I would ck with Wilson custom marine out of fl they are expert,s in this stuff .

 

[krazykelegian]

It is kinda sorta a one off bottom..... So somewhat starting from scratch on this one. Big would rip the box off in a sec, but first trying stuff that is easy part swapping.

 

[krazykelegian]

Thanks 575cat And crszyhippy will pass the contacts along

 

[skav]

It is kinda sorta a one off bottom..... So somewhat starting from scratch on this one. Big would rip the box off in a sec, but first trying stuff that is easy part swapping.

What did Gary do that's different than a standard Hallett single step?

I know that the step bottoms had issues turning, but Hallett Boy's single step is stable at speed from what he has said.

Re spacers...
I know that when I was playing w spacers, I didn't see any differences with, or without. Boat still plowed. I went back to the -2 SC lower and found the right prop. The larger diameter 5 blade is what made the difference for me, but mine is a straight bottom.

 

[krazykelegian]

What did Gary do that's different than a standard Hallett single step?

I know that the step bottoms had issues turning, but Hallett Boy's single step is stable at speed from what he has said.

Re spacers...
I know that when I was playing w spacers, I didn't see any differences with, or without. Boat still plowed. I went back to the -2 SC lower and found the right prop. The larger diameter 5 blade is what made the difference for me, but mine is a straight bottom.

delta pad and the strakes on the boat

we will have to get our hands on some of those and give it shot. the boat is set up for lh props so we havent had the easiest time finding a bunch of props to test

 

[Hammer]

delta pad and the strakes on the boat

we will have to get our hands on some of those and give it shot. the boat is set up for lh props so we havent had the easiest time finding a bunch of props to test

How hard is it to change prop rotation and run it the with rh props ?

 

[rivergames]

delta pad and the strakes on the boat

we will have to get our hands on some of those and give it shot. the boat is set up for lh props so we havent had the easiest time finding a bunch of props to test

Have you tried giving it more gas!



That's a scary boat. I would love to go for a ride one day.....when you guys get the bug worked out



I'm almost done with the cracker. I'm ready for tons of river trips this summer! I think Rick is almost done with my mini too. Although, I think I fried the motor for in

 

[Mondorally]

delta pad and the strakes on the boat

we will have to get our hands on some of those and give it shot. the boat is set up for lh props so we havent had the easiest time finding a bunch of props to test

What size props? I have a LH Hydromotive 4 blade you're welcome to try. I think it is a 24 pitch.

 

[Outdrive1]

How hard is it to change prop rotation and run it the with rh props ?

It's easy. You just change how the cable mounts to the shifter and switch props.

 

[Hammer]

It's easy. You just change how the cable mounts to the shifter and switch props.

Id swap the rotation and go prop testing some more. Who knows, maybe with that unique bottom may like a rh prop rotation, unlikely , but what do you have to lose at this point ?Worst case scenario, you will be able to try more prop options and get it dialed in a little better.

 

[rivergames]

It's easy. You just change how the cable mounts to the shifter and switch props.

Or just run it in reverse

 

[Hammer]

It's easy. You just change how the cable mounts to the shifter and switch props.

Or just run it in reverse

Lol. The only difference in two opposite rotating drives is the shift linkage ? Huh. I thought there would be different internals.....

 

[RiverDave]

i'll take another stab at this...

delta pad???
the design is to get the boat to rock back and get more bow rise...

Delta pad is so the boat can get up and ride on the pad for less drag.

stand off box???
design is to put more weight forward... yes,... make it run on the bow...
works great for tournament boats ... keeps the bow down

Stand Off Box is to put the prop further away from the transom. The further away from the transom you get, the higher the X Dimension you can run, and still have clean water, and less drag.

step in the bottom???
the design is to aireate the botton so you ride on disturbed water..
you give up stability for a few mhp, also gph...

Depends on the steps and designs. Some are designed to break surface tension of the water and disturb. Some are designed to pull in air when a vacuum is created. It's unfair to say that all of them give up stability for a few mph. I can't think of any non Stepped Vee that could run 122 mph (and even larger #'s later), yet the Howard Bullet did it, and the videos that used to be online showed the boat to be rock solid the entire time.

monster huge long dong ski big ass bandaid tabs..
the design is to keep the boat on it's nose so you can bust through waves instead of kiting off them and crashing

Actually the monster Tabs on this boat, and others that you will see mounted parallel with the water line, are generally with the "intent" of preventing chine walking. They mount them up high and away from the waterline with the thought process that you can run them neutral and just the "tips" will be touching while running. If the boat begins to chine, then the edge of the tab will "dip." This will create a triangle of lift (edge of the tab) and the more it dips, the more it lifts.. In short it will "self correct" from one tab to the next in the event of a chine situation. You can also drop them and use them as "conventional tabs" to create stern lift and bust through waves etc.. Just through their sheer massive size. Considerably less effective then mounting them with the Vee though as opposed to parallel with the water, and they cause considerably more drag in this configuration with less lift when used in that fashion.

That's more or less my opinions on those subjects.



As far as the boat.. I don't think the tabs are any even remote part of the problem.. That said it's not hard to try it, so why not try it and rule it out. i personally think the setup is so far out of whack, that they aren't able to move it enough to get it into an area where it works. I think that drive needs to be dropped A LOT.. So much so that I think ultimately they are going to have to get a negative 2 Stand off to try and bring back the Drive Extensions, and then start working from there and raising it back up until they go to far... Once you got a setup that works, you can pretty it up again.

RD

 

[RiverDave]

so you are saying driver error???? sound like it sould perform perfect...

I am saying the setup is wrong.

 

[RiverDave]

that's sad...

Setups can be fixed.. A strong beliefs that things that aren't touching the water are providing transom lift is more difficult, but at some point we'll get that fixed too.

RD

 

[spectras only]

For starters, if this 27 Hallett has a starboard helm, it should have a RH prop to counter rotational torque input to keep the boat level side to side. Boats with notched stern like Fountains benefit from extension boxes allowing a much higher X dimension as Reggie Fountain found out decades ago. Don't think a 27 Hallett would benefit from an ext box even if the X dim was raised by one or two inches. Also the 38 K-tab an overkill on a 27' boat, it could easily be swapped out to a 28 that wouldn't touch the water
when trimmed out to max. I have a delta that my boat runs rock solid with 28 tabs neutral. If I upgrade to more power the boat would run well over 80 and would chinewalk on the pad without tab input.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWDTnjiH7ac

 

[RiverDave]

I was just try'n to help with an idea....you seem to know it all already so I will bow out...

I am always interested in hearing everyone's input. I am sure AK is too.

The point of a forum is the free exchange of ideas between people. Just because I don't agree with what was said with regard to a few things and how it or why they works doesn't mean you should bow out.

RD

 

[Nord]

I was just try'n to help with an idea....you seem to know it all already so I will bow out...

No you won't. lol............

 

[RiverDave]

No you won't. lol............

If you have nothin to add, then don't add..

 

[Nord]

If you have nothin to add, then don't add..

I think the tabs are too big like said before. It needs tabs but not those big ones. Other thing is how would they know where the X dimension is on a bottom that is a one off? They don't. So I think there is a sweet spot on every boat. This ones needs to be moved around until that is obtained. The problem with taking off the tabs (which I agree with Steve they should do) is getting the boat on plane. I think that monster will take forever to plane and might cavitate a bunch. I never stood off the back of the boat and watched the water when it was moving. Pretty sure after a few changes this problem will get handled. Big says the boat kinda rolls around like a hoola hoop when it is at speed. Almost like it is high centering. Really weird effect. So to me, an extension box may be needed but not with such big tabs or vice versa. There has to be some sort of formula to make it work. If not, I hope they aren't putting that bottom on any more boats........

 

[2FORCEFULL]

No you won't. lol............

done, have a nice day

 

[SFV2RVR]

done, have a nice day

You and Nord should kiss and make up again!

 

[bilge rat]

What's the latest ? :thumbup::thumbsdown