New build Eliminator 27 Speedster

[shueman]

Congrats Dave !

 

[lenmann]

Looks great! Congrats

 

[lake p.a.l.]

She looks fantastic! We saw Dave & family at Windmill.

 

[Water rod]

Sorry to hear about all your troubles with B & D. I had issues with B & D along with others on getting work done in a timely manner and not standing behind his work. Best of luck to you.

 

[DaveC]

I can't seem to catch a break. The motor was running strong but filled with water. It has an internal water leak somewhere. Lucky I caught it before any significant damage occurred. But now its down for the count.

I am pretty sure I can fix it if I can find the leak and depending on where it is leaking. I mean I can fix anything short of a cracked block/heads. But now I have to find it. Hopefully I get lucky and it is the intake.

I think I am going to go ahead and fix this one myself. If no significant cracks are found I might be able to boat this year.

Now my annual week long vacation next week is in jeopardy again. Typical. I wish I found it last week so I could fix it. Oh well that is boating I guess.

 

[Meaney77]

That blows... hopefully its nothing to major and you are back on the water soon.

 

[DWC]

I can't seem to catch a break. The motor was running strong but filled with water. It has an internal water leak somewhere. Lucky I caught it before any significant damage occurred. But now its down for the count.

I am pretty sure I can fix it if I can find the leak and depending on where it is leaking. I mean I can fix anything short of a cracked block/heads. But now I have to find it. Hopefully I get lucky and it is the intake.

I think I am going to go ahead and fix this one myself. If no significant cracks are found I might be able to boat this year.

Now my annual week long vacation next week is in jeopardy again. Typical. I wish I found it last week so I could fix it. Oh well that is boating I guess.

View attachment 657135

That’s brutal. Been a hell of a journey on this one.

 

[lake p.a.l.]

I'm very sorry to hear about this. Hope it works out for you. Running 2 outboards pretty hard for the last almost 2 years has me thrilled with my decision. Good luck

 

[DaveC]

BTW thats two leaks. I got an oil leak on the main oil journal plugs that has me concerned. I cannot fix those unless I pull the motor since they are behind the bellhousing. So I guess the motor is coming out.

I am lucky I am smart enough to pull the dipstick every so often and found the water early. I was probably a few hours from a complete grenade.

It is serviceable but I am out of time and patience for this year.

I spent $192,000 on this boat and figured it would have gone a lot better than it has so far.

This is a complete shit show.

 

[Reaper1]

Sounds like a warranty issue with B & D?

 

[DaveC]

Yes and No

It should be but I am not bringing it back.

I wasted too much time on that nonsense. Time is money.

I saved the motor. If I can’t fix it, we might have to bring Teague in from the bullpen.

 

[RCDave]

FOCK.... I have no other words.....So sorry DC

 

[shueman]

What he said ... FOC !!

 

[J.P.]

This is unbelievable after all the coin you spent and bull shit you have been through, you a better man than me..

 

[DaveC]

I told my wife this morning that we are lucky that I diligently check the oil and caught the water intrusion. No way this would have made it to the next service interval or even many more hours without a complete grenade. We caught it just in time.

We live to fight another day.

I am working on it for the next two to three days to see what progress I can make. Trying to figure out if I should swap out the intake gasket or not. I will figure it out eventually.

BTW who knows about crank triggers? Its in my way.

I pulled 3 gallons of milky-colored oil from it. The attachment is 2.5 gallons of milkshake oil with 4 hours on it. I got another half gallon in another jug.

 

[RCDave]

Pull the motor, ship it back to B&D and DEMAND all your money back. Then use the money to purchase a warrantied motor from Merc, Teague, or the like.....

Even if you find the source of the milkshake, the probability of an effect on the motor long term, can't be good.

You deserve better. Time to demand it with full force and effect.....

 

[Outdrive1]

Damn. Sorry hear.


Pressure check the block before you pull it. Take the valve covers off and put air or water to it and listen. On mine I got lucky and could see water spray in under the intake.





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[DaveC]

Have you seen anything I can buy that block offs the water intakes so I can pressure test it? Or is it strictly over engineering a solution? Lol

Damn. Sorry hear.


Pressure check the block before you pull it. Take the valve covers off and put air or water to it and listen. On mine I got lucky and could see water spray in under the intake.





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[Outdrive1]

Barry Obler made some plates out of aluminum. You just have to cover the bolt holes and use some silicon.


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[milkmoney]

Damn. Such a beautiful boat and all these troubles.
Sorry to hear , hope for the best , considering the condition.
[emoji202]

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[Gelcoater]

Dang that sucks!
Hang in there Dave.

 

[lake p.a.l.]

Pull the motor, ship it back to B&D and DEMAND all your money back. Then use the money to purchase a warrantied motor from Merc, Teague, or the like.....

Even if you find the source of the milkshake, the probability of an effect on the motor long term, can't be good.

You deserve better. Time to demand it with full force and effect.....

I agree with this 100% and if it were me I would personally deliver it to them with a few friends.

 

[Riverbound]

I agree with this 100% and if it were me I would personally deliver it to them with a few friends.

You tough guys understand that Brian just went through the largest surgery you can do on the human body and is currently in the hospital recovering ? He got the same diagnosis my Dad did a month after my father....my father passed in February [emoji107]

So if anyone here wants to get “Tough” with Brian Let me know when and where. Although he can’t currently defend himself in sure we will have no shortage of people that will help make sure you can’t type stupid shit like this ever again. [emoji6]




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[28Eliminator]

You tough guys understand that Brian just went through the largest surgery you can do on the human body and is currently in the hospital recovering ? He got the same diagnosis my Dad did a month after my father....my father passed in February [emoji107]

So if anyone here wants to get “Tough” with Brian Let me know when and where. Although he can’t currently defend himself in sure we will have no shortage of people that will help make sure you can’t type stupid shit like this ever again. [emoji6]




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100% agree [emoji106].


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[28Eliminator]

Brian has probably forgotten more than most of us know about engines, and if he were able right now, to make this right, I know he would.. and given the opportunity, I’m sure he will. It sucks what happened to the boat.. and I feel for the guy... but fuck.


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[Cole Trickle]

Shitty situation all together and I feel for dave on this deal but pretty hard to fix a boat or take a phone call when you are fighting for your life....

The fact that he was trying to get things out over the past 6-12 months while basically fighting cancer is a testament to him we have no idea what he was facing or what he was going through .Sadly if any of us were in his position I can’t say business or boats would be my number one priority.

 

[lake p.a.l.]

You tough guys understand that Brian just went through the largest surgery you can do on the human body and is currently in the hospital recovering ? He got the same diagnosis my Dad did a month after my father....my father passed in February [emoji107]

So if anyone here wants to get “Tough” with Brian Let me know when and where. Although he can’t currently defend himself in sure we will have no shortage of people that will help make sure you can’t type stupid shit like this ever again. [emoji6]




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I had no idea what he is going thru. My family has lost several loved ones to cancer and I feel for him and his family.
I know exactly what Dave is going thru also. I had the same thing happen in my old Daytona and the builder was a man of his word and refunded me.
I wasnt there for any of the conversations during this build but think Dave & the builder should have talked about builders health and so on and maybe Dave should have chosen another shop.
I wasnt trying to stir the pot with a man battling for his life. Sounds like many of you know him well, best of luck to him going forward.

 

[DaveC]

So the motor broke today.

So this was supposed to be done LONG before he told me he was sick. I feel sorry for the poor guy but this is business.

No one is getting beat up here over this nonsense. I do things officially. In court where things should be handled.

It will go elsewhere for repair. I will pay the bill for repair. Then I will subsequently file suit agaist B&D.

I’m not worried, its just business.

The problem is we are on a 7 day vacation and the motor broke two days in. Plus it will take me weeks or months to get it repaired. This summer is effectively over for us now.

But at this point I will wait and get it fixed the right way so we can enjoy the boat for years on end.

 

[Icky]

Can you borrow that 496 again?

 

[lake p.a.l.]

Dave, sorry to hear this will end up in court AND it failed during your vacation. Somehow find a way to enjoy your vacation.

 

[RCDave]

Wow. Can't believe Brian is in this place in life. Sucks to hear. I am a cheerleader with the other guys wishing him a textbook recovery and many more years of health and happiness.

But the way DC has been treated from the get go, not such much....

 

[DaveC]

No the guy who owned it sold it.

He has a new build going on so needed the space.

We will get it sorted out eventually

Can you borrow that 496 again?

 

[Icky]

Saw an 8.2 mag on craigslist the other day in long beach for sale, not ideal but it would get you through the summer

No the guy who owned it sold it.

He has a new build going on so needed the space.

We will get it sorted out eventually

 

[FROGMAN524]

What a horrible story. Beautiful boat but what a nightmare. Sorry for both Brian and Dave.

 

[DaveC]

Bit of news. We worked on it all week at the lake. It still runs and the oil is less contaminated.

But I was getting weird low oil pressure readings and blow by with a lot of oil coming out of the breathers. That made me concerned.

But I changed the oil and then hooked up the oil cooler. Then the oil blowing out of the breathers stopped and I got more consistent and higher oil pressure. (I had unhooked the oil cooler on Monday to see if it leaks. It seems the oil likes the cooler so I hooked it back up later)

I thought I was making progress on the water leak but I am still chasing that. I suspect the oil cooler but can’t be sure.

We shall see. If I can’t find the leak I may have to stop and consider other repair options

 

[DaveC]

So last Friday I ran a compression test and checked the plugs. Both look great

Then I rigged up a pressure tester so I can see if the block held pressure. It held 15 lbs of pressure overnight so that looked good.

I did not test the oil cooler. Maybe I should?!

I did not want to use more than 15 psi of air pressure only because that is what we use on cars. I am not sure the motor can handle more pressure or not?

Incidentally I want to submit my rigged up pressure tester for some kind of redneck engineering award. It’s really a piece of work and I don’t mean that in a good way. Lol

 

[OC Mike]

Love it!!!!!!!!!

You have my nomination for the
RDP- RNEA........
Red Neck Engineering Award

 

[Riverbound]

So last Friday I ran a compression test and checked the plugs. Both look great

Then I rigged up a pressure tester so I can see if the block held pressure. It held 15 lbs of pressure overnight so that looked good.

I did not test the oil cooler. Maybe I should?!

I did not want to use more than 15 psi of air pressure only because that is what we use on cars. I am not sure the motor can handle more pressure or not?

Incidentally I want to submit my rigged up pressure tester for some kind of redneck engineering award. It’s really a piece of work and I don’t mean that in a good way. Lol

So what you’re saying is the motor built by B&D might not be the problem??


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[DaveC]

I tested the oil cooler and it held 50 lbs of pressure for 24 hours. So that looks good

I drained all the oil fully again and I will drive it again. I was able to open a second drain plug and got an additional two quarts of old oil out of the bottom of the pan by jacking up the trailer to get the proper angle of the dangle. This is good because this gets all possible contaminated oil out from the previous oil change.

I am looking for water in the oil in the next test drive. These $200 oil changes are killing me

 

[DaveC]

Possible but unlikely at this point. Of course I need to test the oil cooler and headers to make sure they are not leaking as both would cause problems.

I pressure tested the cooler and that is fine. I doubt it’s the headers but I will test those too. The plugs don’t show signs of water. If not the focus turns back to engine.

Brian purchased and installed everything. Too bad his health makes it impossible to help as I am sure he would be elbow deep in oil by now if he was up for it.

So what you’re saying is the motor built by B&D might not be the problem??


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[Runs2rch]

You tough guys understand that Brian just went through the largest surgery you can do on the human body and is currently in the hospital recovering ? He got the same diagnosis my Dad did a month after my father....my father passed in February [emoji107]

So if anyone here wants to get “Tough” with Brian Let me know when and where. Although he can’t currently defend himself in sure we will have no shortage of people that will help make sure you can’t type stupid shit like this ever again. [emoji6]




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Amen brother! Brian is the nicest hard working guy in the business. Go to Teague. Then you will see someone that doesn't give a shit when things go sideways.

 

[OC Mike]

So the block held and the cooler held.
What’s left? Forgive the layman’s question here, is there a T-stat?
If so, does it need to be pulled for the block test?

 

[hallett21]

Amen brother! Brian is the nicest hard working guy in the business. Go to Teague. Then you will see someone that doesn't give a shit when things go sideways.

Lol you really don’t like them


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[lbhsbz]

I'm not very familiar with those headers...any chance one of the water jackets was leaking and letting water into a cylinder or 2 after shutdown?

 

[DaveC]

So bad news. I took it out then this happened.

Drove around all day with no leaks, 60 lbs oil pressure and oil looked good prior to this. Drove around and babied it until the end. I checked proper oil level and visually verified no leaks prior to this happening.

At the end of the day on the run back, running it for awhile then I noticed a big drop in oil pressure (under 20 lbs). Weird because after I backed off the throttle the oil pressure went back up to 60 lbs. So I shut it down and picked up hatch and found this.

Oil is contaminated with water again. If I had to guess I am leaning towards a small crack somewhere or bad gasket. All this happened in under a few minutes.

My theory is water intrusion occurs when it warms up and after the oil gets hot the water boils over and creates pressure. I am gonna leak down to make sure it’s not blow by but it’s doubtful. Regardless the end result is the same.

At this point I have no choice, I can’t run it anymore. I will take it to Teague and have it torn down and checked and hopefully repaired. (hopefully any cracks found won’t cost too much)

I have to check the bearings at this point so hopefully we don’t have rod-a-knocking. If I saved the crank and block we might be OK.

 

[DaveC]

No T stat.

I need to test the headers but it’s doubtful since a leak on the exhaust side would show up in the cylinder and plugs, which it doesn’t.

See my theory above regarding a possible crack or gasket.

I think I just need a do over at this point.

So the block held and the cooler held.
What’s left? Forgive the layman’s question here, is there a T-stat?
If so, does it need to be pulled for the block test?

They are jacketed headers with water in them so it’s possible it could leak. I need to double check them but it’s doubtful

I'm not very familiar with those headers...any chance one of the water jackets was leaking and letting water into a cylinder or 2 after shutdown?

 

[Gelcoater]

They are jacketed headers with water in them so it’s possible it could leak. I need to double check them but it’s doubtful

Well?
I’m by no means any expert but I don’t see how a leaky jacket would contaminate your oil to that extent?
Through reversion? I’d think you’d bend a valve or push rod long before that much water made it into the oil past the rings?
As someone who has hydro-locked a 460 (a Pismo story ) that’s been my limited experience.

***Edit...a few bent push rods
































And, two connecting rods.

 

[DaveC]

Agreed. I don’t thinks its exhaust either. There would bigger problems if that’s the case.

I changed the oil on Friday and it was 14 quarts. Thats alot of water over a short period of time

 

[lbhsbz]

It shouldn't be this hard this figure out. I'll assume all the oil came out of the breathers after it foamed due to becoming overfull after a bunch of water somehow made it's way in there.

See if you can seal the breathers / oil fill, and pull a (small) vacuum on the crank case.

EDIT...just remembered an issue I had with a SBC one time...fresh build. The first time I actually used the recommended "thread sealer" on the head studs instead of a high grade RTV, and water came past the threads when it was hot.

Not sure what block you're using...I imaging some of the aftermarket ones use blind head bolt holes, but the OE blocks use through holes. You might try to warm it up, then pull the valve covers and re-pressure test...look for any leakage around the head studs.

I solved mine by pulling them one at a time, cleaning, resealing with RTV, and reinstalling...took a couple hours.

 

[DaveC]

Good idea. Good call on the head bolts.

It definitely gets worse after it gets hot. If I cruise its seems ok. But shit goes south quickly after things warm up and it gets pushed a bit.

Block is a DART Big M.

Also I need to rethink my redneck pressure tester. I can only get 15 lbs in it but not more. But that might be the coupler I am using.