Luxe boats

[Tank]

Sometimes it’s not best to call out a person or company when it’s your boat or you know the people involved. You’d rather the company spend the effort finishing what they said they would finish.

Luxe owes people entire boats, and owes people parts of boats. It has been a total steal from Peter to pay Paul deal for awhile. The motor situation referenced above is just one example. They lost investors, could not pay their crew, tried to reorganize and then shut the doors. I know customers that bent over backwards to try to help get their boats done, as far as offering to pay the rigging crews themselves to finish their boats.

Now the doors are closed. If they were still restructuring they wouldn’t be giving incomplete boats to customers with no plan to finish them. Some guys got nothing, and this is after six figure deposits.

I like Curt but this is no different than being ripped off by Rusty at Ultra or OCM Tim. Customers were promised something and did not get it. This could have been resolved amicably a long time ago. This didn’t happen in a week, it’s been almost a year in the making.

I really hope it gets worked out and they can turn it around. For the sake of everyone involved.

Like I said before. This is not a new story in the boating world. Time and time again….

 

[was thatguy]

Why does the amount matter?
If a customer only put 20% down and got nothing why is that any different than the customer that put 50% down and got nothing?
I’m well aware of the nuances involved with financing and building and risk on an unknown.
What I’m scratching my head over is the idea that the customers should have known better?
Usually the mob here calls for the imprisonment of failed boat builders who took money but did not deliver.

 

[hallett21]

Why does the amount matter?
If a customer only put 20% down and got nothing why is that any different than the customer that put 50% down and got nothing?
I’m well aware of the nuances involved with financing and building and risk on an unknown.
What I’m scratching my head over is the idea that the customers should have known better?
Usually the mob here calls for the imprisonment of failed boat builders who took money but did not deliver.

Getting screwed is getting screwed. But as a customer I think you can mitigate risks by doing business with companies who require 10-20% down vs 50+.

Id rather be missing 20k and 50k. Like you said I get nothing either way.

 

[DWC]

I really hope it gets worked out and they can turn it around. For the sake of everyone involved.

Like I said before. This is not a new story in the boating world. Time and time again….

Can’t imagine there are many businesses less profitable than custom boat building. The cost of entry (building, molds, fixed costs) combined with limited skilled labor makes it a nightmare. The top builders in the market are dominated by people that made and make their money elsewhere and own boat companies for fun. The West coast builders are either for sale or recently sold for a less than impressive amounts.

 

[Tank]

Why does the amount matter?
If a customer only put 20% down and got nothing why is that any different than the customer that put 50% down and got nothing?
I’m well aware of the nuances involved with financing and building and risk on an unknown.
What I’m scratching my head over is the idea that the customers should have known better?
Usually the mob here calls for the imprisonment of failed boat builders who took money but did not deliver.

I don’t know if you’re referring to me. I never said it was the customers fault. I just said handing your money over to a start up is a dangerous gamble in my opinion. Me, personally, I’d NEVER give cash to someone starting a boating company or building their first few boats. Fuck all that. The list is long as your arm of people who tried, and failed to bring a new boat to the market. To me, it’s not worth the risk.

The boat building business takes no prisoners. It’s a harsh industry with so many variables. Fuckin tight rope walk. Those companies that are successful didn’t start over night. They built their reputation slowly, one good build at a time. Nice and steady. Most all started small and grew to what they are now. That’s the recipe you have to follow to be successful.

“From humble beginnings comes great things”

Again, I truly hope this is just a temporary bump in the road.

 

[Floaterboat]

Getting screwed is getting screwed. But as a customer I think you can mitigate risks by doing business with companies who require 10-20% down vs 50+.

Id rather be missing 20k and 50k. Like you said I get nothing either way.

If you are making milestone payments based on boat completion % and then your engines are never purchased like you were told the money was for, what then?

 

[hallett21]

If you are making milestone payments based on boat completion % and then your engines are never purchased like was explained to you… what then?

The easy 20/20 hindsight argument would be that I should have requested documentation (serial numbers, PO, warranty info etc) from Mercury that they shipped.

The reality is you’re SOL.

Edit: if I made a milestone payment for motors I’d assume I have a shell of a hull. So I guess I can pick that up and at least I’ve got something.

 

[Floaterboat]

The easy 20/20 hindsight argument would be that I should have requested documentation (serial numbers, PO, warranty info etc) from Mercury that they shipped.

The reality is you’re SOL.

That was all asked for.. and people were strung along.

 

[Tank]

Can’t imagine there are many businesses less profitable than custom boat building. The cost of entry (building, molds, fixed costs) combined with limited skilled labor makes it a nightmare. The top builders in the market are dominated by people that made and make their money elsewhere and own boat companies for fun. The West coast builders are either for sale or recently sold for a less than impressive amounts.

I’m sure old rigger and some of the other guys involved in the industry can attest…the industry can be a mother fucker. You’re relying on so many variables. Costs of materials, the economy, quality employees, not to mention boats are toys. So the market is finicky to begin with. Companies have got to be fluid to survive and meet demands of the market. Even big builders. You got big companies like MTI and Cigarette selling huge 3 million center consoles
With a waiting like 3 years out and I’m positive there’s a lot of profit on the back end of a sale like that but companies like that started small and grew to where they are. And even then, they have to be careful and deal with the above mentioned concerns. Baja was the largest performance boat company in the world at one point. And for many years. There now virtually gone. fountain and Donzi the same. Huge companies. Gone. Just weathering the storm is tough let alone trying to come into a market and compete with very well
Established companies. Very tough business all around.

 

[was thatguy]

I don’t know if you’re referring to me. I never said it was the customers fault. I just said handing your money over to a start up is a dangerous gamble in my opinion. Me, personally, I’d NEVER give cash to someone starting a boating company or building their first few boats. Fuck all that. The list is long as your arm of people who tried, and failed to bring a new boat to the market. To me, it’s not worth the risk.

The boat building business takes no prisoners. It’s a harsh industry with so many variables. Fuckin tight rope walk. Those companies that are successful didn’t start over night. They built their reputation slowly, one good build at a time. Nice and steady. Most all started small and grew to what they are now. That’s the recipe you have to follow to be successful.

“From humble beginnings comes great things”

Again, I truly hope this is just a temporary bump in the road.

Not you specifically, just the general idea that customers are actually investors?
Most of us here have some sort of investments.
We look at the history of earnings, or the prospectus and business models of new ventures and decide our acceptable risk exposure, if any, and invest accordingly.

That’s not what a “customer” is.
A customer puts money down for the production and purchase a product…not an assessed risk on a possible ROI.
The definition of each seems blurred in this thread.
A customer doesn’t decide how much he can afford to lose when making a down payment.

 

[hallett21]

That was all asked for.. and people were strung along.

Then I guess the only way to have prevented it was a two party check or one to Mercury directly.

I’m not justifying anything LUXE did or didn’t do. It sucks for the customers.

 

[SJP]

Tough deal for sure on both sides of the fence. Every boater is different and I think sometimes the allure of being first to own something and at a preceived discount makes some judgements cloudy on the buyer side. Personally I am a used boat guy. I buy the best I can afford and sometimes that gets sideways. Hoping for guys to get their product. When things get wonky it is hard to pull out of the tailspin though.

 

[zhandfull]

Have memories from 30 plus years ago of my buddy having a custom boat built. Soon as the boat pop out of the mold loan papers were signed and payments began. All well before the boat was ever finished. As mentioned custom boat building has always been a shady business.

 

[hallett21]

Not you specifically, just the general idea that customers are actually investors?
Most of us here have some sort of investments.
We look at the history of earnings, or the prospectus and business models of new ventures and decide our acceptable risk exposure, if any, and invest accordingly.

That’s not what a “customer” is.
A customer puts money down for the production and purchase a product…not an assessed risk on a possible ROI.
The definition of each seems blurred in this thread.
A customer doesn’t decide how much he can afford to lose when making a down payment.

It’s almost like a retail business morphed with a custom construction company.

And shady contractors screw customers all year long.

 

[RiverDave]

I’m confused.
Its now the customers fault when they get fucked?
Seriously?

Who said that?

 

[RiverDave]

Sometimes it’s not best to call out a person or company when it’s your boat or you know the people involved. You’d rather the company spend the effort finishing what they said they would finish.

Luxe owes people entire boats, and owes people parts of boats. It has been a total steal from Peter to pay Paul deal for awhile. The motor situation referenced above is just one example. They lost investors, could not pay their crew, tried to reorganize and then shut the doors. I know customers that bent over backwards to try to help get their boats done, as far as offering to pay the rigging crews themselves to finish their boats.

Now the doors are closed. If they were still restructuring they wouldn’t be giving incomplete boats to customers with no plan to finish them. Some guys got nothing, and this is after six figure deposits.

I like Curt but this is no different than being ripped off by Rusty at Ultra or OCM Tim. Customers were promised something and did not get it. This could have been resolved amicably a long time ago. This didn’t happen in a week, it’s been almost a year in the making.

From my understanding the last two boats in rigging were picked up and are being finished elsewhere.

I know there is a ton of deposits out there but haven’t heard of owing an “entire boat?”

RD

 

[PlanB]

I’d say if you give someone 100k and they don’t give you anything yes that is their fault. I’ve had a new boat built. I promise i didn’t leave an even 50% deposit and never would.

Depends on the builder I guess. We had a boat built many years ago (low six figure) and paid in full before the build was started. I was never nervous at all about not getting what we paid for, but I would never have done that with a builder that was not established.

 

[OC Daytona]

Depends on the builder I guess. We had a boat built many years ago (low six figure) and paid in full before the build was started. I was never nervous at all about not getting what we paid for, but I would never have done that with a builder that was not established.

When I built my 28 Eliminator Daytona, they only asked me to put $5k down, but I was supplying the custom motors and they did all the rigging, so they had $75k of motors as collateral. They didn't ask for the balance until after we lake tested the boat. But that was the good old days of 2003. I'm sure they all ask for larger deposits now.

 

[DWRAT]

Anyone asking for a large deposit is a red flag.

 

[crzy2bealive]

Good, they wouldn’t even give me the time of day at super-cat fest west last year.

Guess I didn’t look baller enough for them.

 

[Havasu blue label]

They treated wife and I the same the same at the show

 

[185EZ]

He asked for opinions on his new toon and ridiculed mine
Karma can be a bitch

 

[Floaterboat]

From my understanding the last two boats in rigging were picked up and are being finished elsewhere.

I know there is a ton of deposits out there but haven’t heard of owing an “entire boat?”

RD

Well to be fair, your understanding isn’t the reality. If you were supposed to buy engines with the money a customer gave you, and the builder didn’t buy the engines, what would you call it?

What does “finished elsewhere” mean? It means Luxe isn't doing it, and the owners who retrieved a partial boats are supposed to fend for themselves and have to find other shops to unravel the mess Luxe started. These people are paying to finish the boats at their cost. If Luxe was ”restructuring” they wouldn’t have given away these partial boats to owners. The doors are closed, and all the customers are screwed.

The poor people with deposits only are assed out completely, and there are many more of those people that will get nothing. At least the guys with partial boats can finish them if they wish.

 

[hallett21]

Well to be fair, your understanding isn’t the reality. If you were supposed to buy engines with the money a customer gave you, and the builder didn’t buy the engines, what would you call it?

What does “finished elsewhere” mean? It means Luxe isn't doing it, and the owners who retrieved a partial boats are supposed to fend for themselves and have to find other shops to unravel the mess Luxe started. These people are paying to finish the boats at their cost. If Luxe was ”restructuring” they wouldn’t have given away these partial boats to owners. The doors are closed, and all the customers are screwed.

The poor people with deposits only are assed out completely, and there are many more of those people that will get nothing. At least the guys with partial boats can finish them if they wish.

Have those that are completing on their own paid LUXE 100%? Hoping they have some “equity” in their pocket still.

 

[Bpracing1127]

Have those that are completing on their own paid LUXE 100%? Hoping they have some “equity” in their pocket still.

Short answer yes!!!

Again curt better man up and make it right or there is going to be hell to pay.

This is Tim at ocm written all over it. There is no restructuring or anything like that. I know 2 people one can’t get his deposit back and another is out 100k so far

 

[DWC]

Short answer yes!!!

Again curt better man up and make it right or there is going to be hell to pay.

This is Tim at ocm written all over it. There is no restructuring or anything like that. I know 2 people one can’t get his deposit back and another is out 100k so far

If we learned anything from the OCM fiasco, there won’t be hell to pay.

 

[Singleton]

If we learned anything from the OCM fiasco, there won’t be hell to pay.

If I learn anything from that, it is RD defended Tim until he was shown the hard evidence Tim was committing fraud.
Took way to much time for RD to believe what folks were saying.

back to my bottle of wine with the wife.

 

[riverroyal]

Sucks for people out money. I don't understand the willingness to give out large sums of money in advance.
Many many stories like this for soooo many years.

I question the 'more money than brains' statement a lot on RDP

 

[Havasu blue label]

Some people have dreams it should be a goal to make a business work

 

[DLC]

No body read ….. the will loan money to friends /family thread prior to posting in here….

What about the Speed thread … it’s a Ponzi scheme …..


Start up is a gamble

Customers jump on it because it’s a good deal….

 

[JFMFG]

Reading through all this. If there is a restructuring other builders aren’t finishing boats. Those doors are closed and will remain closed aside from vacating the building. Good luck to all who made deposits

 

[lbhsbz]

If one can afford to throw 6 figures of cash down on a boat, you’d think that the manner in which they became successful enough to have earned that spare cash had given them the level of sense not to….especially with a startup.

My sympathy only runs so deep.

Stupid should hurt, to some extent.

 

[Tommy Gun Images]

Nordic and Eliminator

Where did Nordic advertise blank hulls?

 

[JFMFG]

Where did Nordic advertise blank hulls?

I’m going to assume he is referring to the few Nordic hulls they build for stock on occasion. Nordic is still 6 months out on a build if you started today.

 

[lbhsbz]

Nordic and Eliminator

At some point you need something in the showroom that isn’t sold already

 

[monkeyswrench]

I've never had six figures on hand. Closest I came was seeing the number go through my account from a sale to another home purchase.

If people were out of pocket that big though, it still hurts them. It may be an impossibility for me, but probably much the same as someone taking my household for a chunk. It's all percentage and relativity. If money is taken and not returned, that's just wrong, no matter the amount.

As for how people are treated by "sales associates", I haven't a clue as to the past year. I didn't make it to any events. Last year, vendors of the "big names" and "little guys" were very cordial to me. I am by no appearances "baller". Honestly, at DS last year I may have been the only person wearing stained blue jeans and scuffed work boots.
Things may have changed in the year or so that's passed though.

 

[was thatguy]

If I learn anything from that, it is RD defended Tim until he was shown the hard evidence Tim was committing fraud.
Took way to much time for RD to believe what folks were saying.

back to my bottle of wine with the wife.

“It’s just one ‘toon…”

 

[attitude]

Where did Nordic advertise blank hulls?

On instagram, the post was already deleted so I assume they found a buyer.

 

[Floaterboat]

If I learn anything from that, it is RD defended Tim until he was shown the hard evidence Tim was committing fraud.
Took way to much time for RD to believe what folks were saying.

back to my bottle of wine with the wife.

Spot on. And that has been demonstrated over and over again. It always been “miscommunications” until so many people come forward the fraud is undeniable.

 

[attitude]

At some point you need something in the showroom that isn’t sold already

It’s just people backing out of a build once the boat has been commissioned. I’m sure there are other people in line behind it. Eliminators latest was for the new 306 speedster.

 

[Floaterboat]

If one can afford to throw 6 figures of cash down on a boat, you’d think that the manner in which they became successful enough to have earned that spare cash had given them the level of sense not to….especially with a startup.

My sympathy only runs so deep.

Stupid should hurt, to some extent.

Cool. When your tailgate gets stolen remind me to tell you my sympathy only runs so deep.

Stupid should hurt twice as much in living in Long Beach.

 

[lbhsbz]

Cool. When your tailgate gets stolen remind me to tell you my sympathy only runs so deep.

Stupid should hurt twice as much in living in Long Beach.

I didn’t give a 6 figure deposit for it…and the replacement was $500. So, my stupid doesn’t hurt nearly as much. Where do you live? The only reason I’m still here is because my Mom died 3 years ago and I’m the only family to take care of my aging father….but I don’t want you to feel like piece of shit because you were ignorant of that fact and missed it doing your halfassed research going through my previous posts…I want you to feel like shit because you’re a fucktard dumbass…reasons in the last 2 paragraphs.….

Also, why am I stupid for living within my means and having a thief steal from me?

Dig through the rest of my posts on here…and you’ll find some better material….like the Stoker I bought for $2K over asking that turned out to be full of termites. So I scrapped it to the first person that offered me anything. I’ll tell you what I didn’t do though….is call out the seller who didn’t know about the issue, or might have known but didn’t tell me. I’m the one who fucked up…so I own it.

Sounds like you’re one of the ones who made a shitty impulse buy, and doesn’t want to own it. Difference is, mine cost me $4000, yours cost you a lot more.

It ain’t my fault you’re a sucker.

 

[Floaterboat]

I didn’t give a 6 figure deposit for it…and the replacement was $500. So, my stupid doesn’t hurt nearly as much. Where do you live? The only reason I’m still here is because my Mom died 3 years ago and I’m the only family to take care of my aging father….but I don’t want you to feel like piece of shit because you were ignorant of that fact and missed it doing your halfassed research going through my previous posts…I want you to feel like shit because you’re a fucktard dumbass…reasons in the last 2 paragraphs.….

Also, why am I stupid for living within my means and having a thief steal from me?

Dig through the rest of my posts on here…and you’ll find some better material….like the Stoker I bought for $2K over asking that turned out to be full of termites. So I scrapped it to the first person that offered me anything. I’ll tell you what I didn’t do though….is call out the seller who didn’t know about the issue, or might have known but didn’t tell me. I’m the one who fucked up…so I own it.

Sounds like you’re one of the ones who made a shitty impulse buy, and doesn’t want to own it. Difference is, mine cost me $4000, yours cost you a lot more.

It ain’t my fault you’re a sucker.

Edit:

4464 Boyar Ave, 90807 if you’re one of those assholes who’s gonna tell me I wouldn’t say this shit to your face. I’m home most of the day.

Keep digging LBC. I don’t need to drive to your house to tell you where you live. You already know where you live. I have no reason to go there.

We are taking about people who were ripped off here. Just because it is a sum you are jealous of, does not make it less of an issue.

 

[lbhsbz]

Keep digging LBC. I don’t need to drive to your house to tell you where you live. You already know where you live. I have no reason to go there.

We are taking about people who were ripped off here. Just because it is a sum you are jealous of, does not make it less of an issue.

You are not brite.

People get ripped off because they are not brite.

Bright people do not get ripped off very often.

What exactly am I jealous of? The $200K boat you don’t have? Maybe you should try a $5000 boat than actually exists,…they’re way more fun than boats that don’t exist.

Stop being butthurt because you fucked up. Move on. Call it a teachable moment.

It takes 2 to fuck up a deal…you were one of the 2 it sounds like.

 

[was thatguy]

You are not brite.

People get ripped off because they are not brite.

Bright people do not get ripped off very often.

What exactly am I jealous of? The $200K boat you don’t have? Maybe you should try a $5000 boat than actually exists,…they’re way more fun than boats that don’t exist.

Stop being butthurt because you fucked up. Move on. Call it a teachable moment.

It takes 2 to fuck up a deal…you were one of the 2 it sounds like.

It’s “bright”…
Just sayin….

 

[Andy B.]

It’s “bright”…
Just sayin….

I think he was just making a point in the next sentence it's spelled right..

 

[BHC Vic]

Keep digging LBC. I don’t need to drive to your house to tell you where you live. You already know where you live. I have no reason to go there.

We are taking about people who were ripped off here. Just because it is a sum you are jealous of, does not make it less of an issue.

Sounds like you’re just a punk I wish the kids on my baseball team could back pedal as fast as you

 

[Floaterboat]

I think he was just making a point in the next sentence it's spelled right..

He certainly made his point. Some people get ripped off and this place blames the customers.

Sounds like you’re just a punk

I wish the kids on my baseball team could back pedal as fast as you

Stay at the kids table.

 

[BHC Vic]

He certainly made his point.



Stay at the kids table.

lol I’d give you my address but we already know how that will go

Maybe we can start a go fund me for you Want your to still be able to afford a seat at the table

 

[BHC Vic]

Let’s not forget who made the stupid purchase, Kid that’s too funny