***HEY-LAM NEW RV TODAY****

[2FORCEFULL]

 

[2FORCEFULL]

owning a rv lift sure makes taking pics easier.....

 

[RCDave]

Is the exhaust touching the underfloor of the coach floor?

 

[rivrrts429]

How much of a difference do you think the sumo springs, by themselves and without the super springs, would make on the coach?

I already installed the larger sway bar in the rear and super springs but it still needs a bit more and I’m thinking the sumos could do the job with all three products working together.

I’m going to add the roadmaster steering stabilizer and larger sway bar on the front too.

 

[TCHB]

How do you bring the new spring down

How much of a difference do you think the sumo springs, by themselves and without the super springs, would make on the coach?

I already installed the larger sway bar in the rear and super springs but it still needs a bit more and I’m thinking the sumos could do the job with all three products working together.

I’m going to add the roadmaster steering stabilizer and larger sway bar on the front too.

I added Firestone Air Bags to the back of my Class C. With 80 pounds of air it raised it a little over 2 inches. I ran two separate air lines so I can adjust right and left side on its own. Firestone says the air bags are good for #5000 of capacity.

 

[CarolynandBob]

I like tan lines.....

LMAO

 

[2FORCEFULL]

How much of a difference do you think the sumo springs, by themselves and without the super springs, would make on the coach?

I already installed the larger sway bar in the rear and super springs but it still needs a bit more and I’m thinking the sumos could do the job with all three products working together.

I’m going to add the roadmaster steering stabilizer and larger sway bar on the front too.

most of the time all I do is the sumos,... on yours, I'd do the solo yellow...you can adjust them with spacer rings I did the blue ones on front... my coach has about zero sway right now...but I already ordered the helrig sway bars... so gonna see what they do..

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Is the exhaust touching the underfloor of the coach floor?

no, but it sure looks like it does in the pic....good eye...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

How do you bring the new spring down

I added Firestone Air Bags to the back of my Class C. With 80 pounds of air it raised it a little over 2 inches. I ran two separate air lines so I can adjust right and left side on its own. Firestone says the air bags are good for #5000 of capacity.

the problem with air bags is they try to cause lean and sway, when in a hard turn, the out side bag wants to cause lift...that's why they went to the neway air valves on alpines... when the coach starts to lean it lets air out of the light side and in creases the air on the heavy side.... we bag cars at our shop..other than being able to lay a car out.... they aren't a good idea..I owned a Borget air bag sand car.... constant battle to get the air pressure set right.... I would never run around with 80psi in helper bags...I'd fix the spring problem first..

 

[TCHB]

the problem with air bags is they try to cause lean and sway, when in a hard turn, the out side bag wants to cause lift...that's why they went to the neway air valves on alpines... when the coach starts to lean it lets air out of the light side and in creases the air on the heavy side.... we bag cars at our shop..other than being able to lay a car out.... they aren't a good idea..I owned a Borget air bag sand car.... constant battle to get the air pressure set right.... I would never run around with 80psi in helper bags...I'd fix the spring problem first..

What do you think your leaf springs are doing when loading and unloading side to side. They are doing the same thing as air bags and sumos when loaded and unloaded. They are just springs.
Since I put my air bags on it drives much better and goes down the road pretty good. When I pull my Jeep and can not even tell it is there. My Jeep weights a little under #4,000. Max air pressure in the bags is #100. I called Firestone and the engineer said running at #80 is what they are designed to do.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

What do you think your leaf springs are doing when loading and unloading side to side. They are doing the same thing as air bags and sumos when loaded and unloaded. They are just springs.
Since I put my air bags on it drives much better and goes down the road pretty good. When I pull my Jeep and can not even tell it is there. My Jeep weights a little under #4,000. Max air pressure in the bags is #100. I called Firestone and the engineer said running at #80 is what they are designed to do.

until they blow a line...long as you are happy though....

 

[Flying_Lavey]

until they blow a line...long as you are happy though....

The lines are most definitely the weak link with air bags. They are however, just springs. The largest benefit being that the spring rates can be adjusted. When plumbed individually, and with good and proper valves, the air doesn't transfer from the outside bag to the inside bag and helps drastically reduce roll

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

 

[2FORCEFULL]

air bags grow when you air them up ….and flatten when you let the air out ...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

The lines are most definitely the weak link with air bags. They are however, just springs. The largest benefit being that the spring rates can be adjusted. When plumbed individually, and with good and proper valves, the air doesn't transfer from the outside bag to the inside bag and helps drastically reduce roll

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

air bags work in only one direction...where as springs work against pull and compression,... same as sumo maxims. with sumo solos... lets say you set them to 1/2 '' pre load...if lean raises the coach 1/2 on one side... there is no more upward force...like if you let the air out on the inside bag with air... with both bag at 80 psi you have to rely on good shocks to stop body roll

 

[JB in so cal]

2FF. Serious question. Is there a market where a person could buy stock motor homes and do some of the stuff you do and be able to resell at a reasonable profit? I'm talking mostly suspension/tires/wheels to make them very driver friendly.

Seems you run into mostly the same issues with every rig you get. They drive like Shit as is then you fluff em up a little and they're better.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

air bags work in only one direction...where as springs work against pull and compression,... same as sumo maxims. with sumo solos... lets say you set them to 1/2 '' pre load...if lean raises the coach 1/2 on one side... there is no more upward force...like if you let the air out on the inside bag with air... with both bag at 80 psi you have to rely on good shocks to stop body roll

Any spring only has resistance in one direction depending on where it is in it's cycle relative to it's resting position and I guarantee a motorhome compresses those springs much further than it would unload the corner in a turn, and in that regard, an air bag will do the same. The sump springs both do the same as well, they just increase the spring rate on a much shorter cycle which is right in the coach's normal suspension cycle.

Springs, weather they be leaf, coil, air, sumo, etc... Aren't magical and all work with the same basic principals. Tuning them and selecting the correct option for the application is the real key and why the Sumos work well on a coach.

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Any spring only has resistance in one direction depending on where it is in it's cycle relative to it's resting position and I guarantee a motorhome compresses those springs much further than it would unload the corner in a turn, and in that regard, an air bag will do the same. The sump springs both do the same as well, they just increase the spring rate on a much shorter cycle which is right in the coach's normal suspension cycle.

Springs, weather they be leaf, coil, air, sumo, etc... Aren't magical and all work with the same basic principals. Tuning them and selecting the correct option for the application is the real key and why the Sumos work well on a coach.

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

LOL....if that's what you want to believe….I was just try'n to teach you something...so I guess you are right...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

for those of you that want to learn,.. take a spring setting on the ground try to compress it... the pounds of pressure to compress it 1"" is the spring rate.... now , take the same spring, and try to stretch it...it will take the same amount to stretch it 1"... springs are use in many ways... but unless it's a full compressed spring, like a throttle return spring,..it will have force in both directions...the way sumos work, they are progressive compression...but,. when you go into a turn , one side compresses , while the other side resist , and that because they are a poly urathane rubber that resists stretch….with air bags...when one side tries to compress,... the other side wants to lift with the weight transfer

 

[2FORCEFULL]

 

[2FORCEFULL]

 

[mesquito_creek]

for those of you that want to learn,.. take a spring setting on the ground try to compress it... the pounds of pressure to compress it 1"" is the spring rate.... now , take the same spring, and try to stretch it...it will take the same amount to stretch it 1"... springs are use in many ways... but unless it's a full compressed spring, like a throttle return spring,..it will have force in both directions...the way sumos work, they are progressive compression...but,. when you go into a turn , one side compresses , while the other side resist , and that because they are a poly urathane rubber that resists stretch….with air bags...when one side tries to compress,... the other side wants to lift with the weight transfer

On a leaf spring, If there is a shackle on one end, once the spring is fully unloaded the shackle provides upward movement of the chassis with no resistance before the spring would provide the "stretch"resistance. I would think that a motorhome would never unload far enough to get into that condition, but I could be wrong. On pre-runners, you extend the shackle to get more getto fabulous uptravel to brag to your friends about travel length. On the video you posted I see nothing close to the negative arch condition you describe... I would also guess that in the stretch condition you describe once it exceeds the weight of 1/2 the axle, wheel and tire... the tire would lift off the ground.

 

[mesquito_creek]

What you describe with the sumo spring providing resistance on the upward movement, sound to me like it acts like a spring on the down ward motion and shock absorber on the upward movement. Which could be why it works well, its a simple spring and shock absorber in one. Something that could be achieved with a traditional leaf and properly valved shock.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

What you describe with the sumo spring providing resistance on the upward movement, sound to me like it acts like a spring on the down ward motion and shock absorber on the upward movement. Which could be why it works well, its a simple spring and shock absorber in one. Something that could be achieved with a traditional leaf and properly valved shock.

you are very very correct...proper valved shocks, and correct spring rates... but ,getting shocks for an rv is way way $$$$$...and to top that... springs...as you know,.. to get an off road suspension to work you have to have compression, rebound travel and droop... and to get all that to work, if you try driving on the steet it becomes dangerous and wants to roll over..the easiest way to correct ill performace of RV's is with sumo's , like said set it and forget it...when you set up sumo's,, you set preload... I like to go 1/4''... unless I'm try'n to fix sag.... proper way to fix sag is to add a leaf,.. or like what I did on this coach,... the super spring... I want my suspension to hold it's own with out Band-Aids.. with the sumo's,..at 1/4'' preload,..any upward travel past 1/4'' and it starts resisting up travel... so you have one side resisting down ward, while the other is resisting up travel.... with air bags... they work against each other... while one side is resisting down travel,... the other side in is pushing up ….the only way to over come this is to over inflate the bag,... as in 80psi so that it keeps it from compressing in a turn...for air bags to work proper, they need valves and a big air tank... when the body rolls to one side... there needs to have added air pressure.. and the other side needs to release air pressure

 

[2FORCEFULL]

so heres the up date....

So I've been doing research on the front spring problem... I got on fords web site and found spring specs...there are 7 different springs available for the e350 chassis... mine a 2020 but I looked up and found info for a 2019... should be the same....anyway... when doing springs the first think you need to know is how much it weighs....on mine... the front axel is at 3000 lbs , then when I put the boat on back it drops to 2640 lbs....to find out the spring rate, you have to have either the spring part number, or the wire size...in my case, the wire size is .79... that is a 2900 lb spring, so X2 =5800 lbs..... there's the problem...that's about a 3000 lb too stiff of a spring... also that spring is not a variable rate it's constant...now, here's how I select the right spring... not always spot on with the first try, but close...with the front weight of 3000lbs, I add 10%..so 3300 lb spring should be right..you have to consider G out...moog has 4 different springs for the e series...the part# cc81372...is a 1250 lb spring.. so X2 it's at 2500lbs...too soft...the rates are as follows....cc81370 =1523 lbs,...cc81368.. 1708 lbs,...cc81366.....1893 lbs...So with my weight of 3000 lbs....I gonna start with the cc81368...that puts me at 3416lbs of spring rate....which is close to my 3300lb need,...they are variable rate springs so the ride quality will be a huge gain...with that choice if I find it too soft or too harsh....there is a spring to go either way...the springs cost 95 bucks shipped to my door..and super easy to install...fingers cross'd that they work on the first try...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I've been F'n with this coach when I have the time for the past 6 weeks,... though it's probley 60% better.... still not the 100% goal...I've fixed countless half assed installed items...one real problem was the wind noise.....gulstream put the big frameless windows on the side,,, whats happening is going down the road the side draft is bowing the glass out, and causing huge air leaks... kinda like heading down the road in your truck aand some one opens the rear window..there really is not a fix for this other than going to a thicker pane ...So what I did was seal them shut,,... the last trip to havasu in the wind they were bowing out 3/8'' or more and I thought they were gonna break!!

 

[2FORCEFULL]

the ride????? horrible to start but getting better... I did shocks, spring mods, sumo'd and helwig sway bars...

the only problem now is the harsh ride,,, I think it was ford that used to advertise " quiet as a ford, and show a wine glass sitting on the dash going down a bumpy road.... I can't even keep the dash mat on...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

so heres the up date....

So I've been doing research on the front spring problem... I got on fords web site and found spring specs...there are 7 different springs available for the e350 chassis... mine a 2020 but I looked up and found info for a 2019... should be the same....anyway... when doing springs the first think you need to know is how much it weighs....on mine... the front axel is at 3000 lbs , then when I put the boat on back it drops to 2640 lbs....to find out the spring rate, you have to have either the spring part number, or the wire size...in my case, the wire size is .79... that is a 2900 lb spring, so X2 =5800 lbs..... there's the problem...that's about a 3000 lb too stiff of a spring... also that spring is not a variable rate it's constant...now, here's how I select the right spring... not always spot on with the first try, but close...with the front weight of 3000lbs, I add 10%..so 3300 lb spring should be right..you have to consider G out...moog has 4 different springs for the e series...the part# cc81372...is a 1250 lb spring.. so X2 it's at 2500lbs...too soft...the rates are as follows....cc81370 =1523 lbs,...cc81368.. 1708 lbs,...cc81366.....1893 lbs...So with my weight of 3000 lbs....I gonna start with the cc81368...that puts me at 3416lbs of spring rate....which is close to my 3300lb need,...they are variable rate springs so the ride quality will be a huge gain...with that choice if I find it too soft or too harsh....there is a spring to go either way...the springs cost 95 bucks shipped to my door..and super easy to install...fingers cross'd that they work on the first try...

up date....got the new springs in,... what a difference..the variable ride with the more correct spring rate really helped.... might be a tad too much still, but I'm gonna run it and see if they breakin after a few miles..I got it to be able to haul 10 people.... so being a little on the stiff side might be fine.... but at least I know where I'm at....

 

[2FORCEFULL]

MORE WWTT ( WHAT WERE THEY THINKING) !!!!!!

while under my coach, the exhaust was rattling every where... the added to the ford exhaust.... about 15' of tail pipe with 2 90's,,,,so I cut it off and re did it...about 10 ' shorter..

 

[JB in so cal]

We all know where this is going, right? Right? I think he blocked me. So.....

 

[2FORCEFULL]

another WWTT!!!! not only is this total wrong in many ways,.....but also good way to make you sick...I found that the water tank fill was lower that the water tank...because of this, every time you take off, water goes all over the side of the rv, that and if you park on a hill the water siphons out of the tank...next ,... the water sits in the fill hose and gets mold...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

So here's what happens.... the water tank is small to begin with, and where the fill neck is,... you can only fill 3/4 of the tank,... and while driving, you get to the camp site with half a tank of water,... the mold in the fill hose gets washed into the water take every time you fill it.... I personaly never drink the water out of RV's for this reason,.. we use bottled water for everything we injest...drinking this water will have you running like a wooden leg indian to the throne....

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Got the water tank issue fixed.... now the water stays in the tank, and none on the side of the coach...