HEY-LAM , GOT A MODEL A*****

[2FORCEFULL]

here's another puzzling find.... while cleaning the smoke damage... I took the stromberg carb off.... I've been running lucus fuel treatment so wanted to see what the carb looked like inside... so I take the bowl cover off.... the carb is clean as new inside....but.... the float was just laying in the bottom of the bowl... the rod that holds it has a screw in from the out side, that was missing... the fuel is gravity fed from the fuel tank on the fire wall.... every time I drive it I shut the fuel line off, and turn it back on just before I start it... seemed to run ok but was a little lazy on throttle response.... would it run without the float??? fuel pressure has to be 1 pound.... or less I would guesss?????? I was able to adjust the idle screws out , seems like they would have had to be all the way in to run if it was flooding over the bowl??? also.... I think it was that way when I got it....
is that possible... or do you think it happened, ( screw came out on the last run/) when I drove it last???? guess I could take the screw out of the new carb and run it to find out...or just never know what happened..I'm a gotta know guy and pay dearly for it.... I remember as a kid my Dad saying time after time, " Why you fuc'n with that!"

 

[2FORCEFULL]

also... would a 12v timing light still work on 6 volts...? I have a back to zero snap on timing light, but not gonna try it...reason is , there's no timing marks so I was gonna set the timing at TDC with the pin and mark the pulley at 12 o'clock, just to see if the dist. is advancing... the motor was real lazy on throttle response... but it's most likely running too rich

that and MPG???? wonder what a model A gets.... my shop is 12 mile a way and it was using a half a tank going there and back

 

[Shlbyntro]

also... would a 12v timing light still work on 6 volts...? I have a back to zero snap on timing light, but not gonna try it...reason is , there's no timing marks so I was gonna set the timing at TDC with the pin and mark the pulley at 12 o'clock, just to see if the dist. is advancing... the motor was real lazy on throttle response... but it's most likely running too rich

that and MPG???? wonder what a model A gets.... my shop is 12 mile a way and it was using a half a tank going there and back

just power your timing light off a separate battery off to the side. the ignition pickup should still work the same

 

[pwerwagn]

also... would a 12v timing light still work on 6 volts...? I have a back to zero snap on timing light, but not gonna try it...reason is , there's no timing marks so I was gonna set the timing at TDC with the pin and mark the pulley at 12 o'clock, just to see if the dist. is advancing... the motor was real lazy on throttle response... but it's most likely running too rich

that and MPG???? wonder what a model A gets.... my shop is 12 mile a way and it was using a half a tank going there and back

My craftsman timing light doesnt work on 6v. I can see the bulb flash but its super dim.

As far as MPG, my 29 that is 99% stock seems to get like ~10-12mpg around town if I nail the fuel mixture and timing. My wifes grandpa told me when they used to drive them from alb to san diego and what not, without an overdrive unit the best he would get was 15ish.

I do notice that short quick little jaunts like to my parents house and back ~8 miles away, seems to really burn thru fuel.

 

[monkeyswrench]

They are not fuel efficient, even with the factory updraft carb. 10-12 around town with 3.54's. I think those gears help the car at higher speeds, but around town you kind of have to flog it to get her moving.

The carb thing is interesting. If the carb was running a standard needle and seat, and your tank was low, it may be ok...as long as the vent tube was above fuel level, it would seep from the accelerator pump. The problem is, with a stock needle and seat, and even some of the gross jets, the orifice isn't large enough to flow the required fuel at times. That may also be a sluggishness issue. If it has the small orifice, alky gross jets were available, double the flow...they solved that problem. If you decide to run an electric pump, 3.5ish psi is the happy pressure on those carbs. Much more, and they flood. For the past few years I've used a "Mr. Gasket" 4cyl pump. They list them at 4psi, but I've never needed a regulator on one. GPH wise they've worked from 1 to 4 carbs on flatheads for me.

With the distributor, check the weights. I don't know how long this car was sitting, but I've seen the distributors assembled with white lith grease, and turn to glue.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

They are not fuel efficient, even with the factory updraft carb. 10-12 around town with 3.54's. I think those gears help the car at higher speeds, but around town you kind of have to flog it to get her moving.

The carb thing is interesting. If the carb was running a standard needle and seat, and your tank was low, it may be ok...as long as the vent tube was above fuel level, it would seep from the accelerator pump. The problem is, with a stock needle and seat, and even some of the gross jets, the orifice isn't large enough to flow the required fuel at times. That may also be a sluggishness issue. If it has the small orifice, alky gross jets were available, double the flow...they solved that problem. If you decide to run an electric pump, 3.5ish psi is the happy pressure on those carbs. Much more, and they flood. For the past few years I've used a "Mr. Gasket" 4cyl pump. They list them at 4psi, but I've never needed a regulator on one. GPH wise they've worked from 1 to 4 carbs on flatheads for me.

With the distributor, check the weights. I don't know how long this car was sitting, but I've seen the distributors assembled with white lith grease, and turn to glue.

while looking at the carb with the top off, the bowl is sealed with the top on, and it seems that when the float pin comes out it would have a stream of fuel comming out the hole.... that would explain the hose catching fire, and flames shooting out the side covers of the hood....so my guess is it came out going up the grade???? any way I got a new carb and dist. comming.... they make a rear fuel tank for the rear to make the A look like a 32... and a 32 front grille I see lot of streetrodders do that... maybe the way to go to get the tank out of the cab,,,.. I've always thought the stock tank idea from ford was just a problem waiting to happen...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

is this considered a "H" beam rod???

 

[monkeyswrench]

is this considered a "H" beam rod???

Looking at your other pics, look to be "stock" B rods. The dippers are cut down though 9n the caps. The stock journals on an A are 1.50, on a B 1.8-something...I know it's real close to a Honda journal, I think that's what they used to put in for inserts?

 

[Blue Oval]

Fun seeing a Model A post on a boat site. My Father started this project in 2004. He got sick with cancer and I finished it before he passed in 2005. Model A engine with a home made intake with a modern carb, the guy who started it made a header for it, modern ignition with an electric fuel pump. Original mechanical brakes. My son drives it around a lot. He clocked it at 73.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

here's another WTF..... So looking at the YL 11 A mallory dist,... the is no advance....... seems like I read somewhere that the model b runs @ 26 degrees advance,,, also learned that the model A timing cover pin is zero advance where as the model B is 19 degrees, not TDC . sooooo... if you run a locked out dist, as the mallory is... is it set to 26 degrees all the time??? I ordered a new dist, asked for the 1932 that has a cintrifical advace and it came as the 31 lever advance,,.. I would have to come up with the linkage for a model a which is missing on my car... and seems like I read that those advance 10 degrees???? or do they advance to 26 degrees??? I guess I could lock it out and run it the same way as the mallory??? and would the mallory be set at 26 degrees all the time??? .... can't amagine why some one would run a locked out dist. on a street motor????? ... the way it was, one touch of the starter and it started.... what would be the reason for a locked out dist.?????

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Fun seeing a Model A post on a boat site. My Father started this project in 2004. He got sick with cancer and I finished it before he passed in 2005. Model A engine with a home made intake with a modern carb, the guy who started it made a header for it, modern ignition with an electric fuel pump. Original mechanical brakes. My son drives it around a lot. He clocked it at 73. View attachment 1227309

I wouldn't really call RDP lounge a boat site.... more of a whats going on at the river....current projects and events...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Many Mallories were OEM on the industrial A and B engines sold new up til WWII on combines and such.... just read this on the HAMB..... also would explain the locked out dist if ti was designed to run one rpm...??? so I probley have an industrial motor???

 

[2FORCEFULL]

also just read this...
The Mallory distributor model YA type 11A was used in the late 30's (38-39) on Ford model a engines which were used on Gleaner Baldwin pull type combines to run the thrasher. The distributor is a centrifugal advance and single point.


mine doesn't advance....

 

[4Waters]

here's another WTF..... So looking at the YL 11 A mallory dist,... the is no advance....... seems like I read somewhere that the model b runs @ 26 degrees advance,,, also learned that the model A timing cover pin is zero advance where as the model B is 19 degrees, not TDC . sooooo... if you run a locked out dist, as the mallory is... is it set to 26 degrees all the time??? I ordered a new dist, asked for the 1932 that has a cintrifical advace and it came as the 31 lever advance,,.. I would have to come up with the linkage for a model a which is missing on my car... and seems like I read that those advance 10 degrees???? or do they advance to 26 degrees??? I guess I could lock it out and run it the same way as the mallory??? and would the mallory be set at 26 degrees all the time??? .... can't amagine why some one would run a locked out dist. on a street motor????? ... the way it was, one touch of the starter and it started.... what would be the reason for a locked out dist.?????

Your steering column is correct so all you need is the dist rod, Snyders should have them, your advance lever is on the left side of the column

 

[monkeyswrench]

The B cover is about 9 degrees...the timing "mark" detent is on the cam gear, I don't know how much swing an A distributor has with the rod, but I'd think close to 30? B distributors weren't cheap, but a few guys rebuilt them or had cores. They did 28-30 degrees. There was company making a drop in centrifugal advance for A distributors also.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

more crazy stuff...

so I'm starting to believe I have a combine motor...and the YL 11A DISTRIBUTOR CAME STOCK ON IT.... that would explain the lazy top end performance... if you look at the pic of the mallory VS stock dist. you can see that the mallory was made to go in and lock down at the amount they wanted it to advace... there for you couldn't time the motor out of their specs...note the hole for the dist. lock in..... Vs the collar on the stock model A dist....

so my thought now is to find the linkage to hook up the stock advance lever...???? also I have no idea what is suposed to screw into the stock dist threaded hole????

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Your steering column is correct so all you need is the dist rod, Snyders should have them, your advance lever is on the left side of the column

that part I knew, but,... the model B came with a centrifical advance dist... and thats what I ordered from CW moss....... now i'm finding out that they don't sell model b dist....

 

[2FORCEFULL]

also, the engine and firewall cleaned up pretty good.....

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Your steering column is correct so all you need is the dist rod, Snyders should have them, your advance lever is on the left side of the column

also, you are correct,... I'm only missing the one rod and snyders has it for 10 bucks... sounds like thats the way to go???? should perform better ..... the mallory didn't have the hold down bolt in the hole so you could adjust total timing,... I did that by ear when I got the car..... I always thought that the dist wasn't advancing... guess i was right.... my guess is they did that to save motors on combines that run at a low rpm.....

 

[monkeyswrench]

The big threaded hole was for the original "popout" ignition switch. It had a heavy shielded cable that screwed in there, and and made contact with the lower plate. A lot of people just run a replacement that screws in, and then has a smaller wire. In looking at the pic of your firewall, I think the terminal box lid is on upside-down. That larger opening would have had the big shielded cable, from the dash, down to the distributor.

A B distributor, as far as I know, wasn't repopped. Early Ford store, or C&G might have rebuilds? The other option would be to put an A distributor on it with the centrifugal kit out Ohio. You could just go back to the spark lever, and turn the throttle into your turn switch.

The only thing that sucks about manually advancing the spark, city driving. A lot of guys would just leave it half way. What's neat about it though, you can run it at constant throttle, on a flat, and feel the difference the advance makes.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

The big threaded hole was for the original "popout" ignition switch. It had a heavy shielded cable that screwed in there, and and made contact with the lower plate. A lot of people just run a replacement that screws in, and then has a smaller wire. In looking at the pic of your firewall, I think the terminal box lid is on upside-down. That larger opening would have had the big shielded cable, from the dash, down to the distributor.

A B distributor, as far as I know, wasn't repopped. Early Ford store, or C&G might have rebuilds? The other option would be to put an A distributor on it with the centrifugal kit out Ohio. You could just go back to the spark lever, and turn the throttle into your turn switch.

The only thing that sucks about manually advancing the spark, city driving. A lot of guys would just leave it half way. What's neat about it though, you can run it at constant throttle, on a flat, and feel the difference the advance makes.

you are correct again, and thanks again for your in put... I found the cable that allows you to hook the cable to the coil... when I ordered the dist. from CW moss, they said it was a new centrifical advance dist.. but after getting it that was wrong,... I'm only short the rod from the column to the dist,... so thats the way i'm going... that and I have to order the power cable from the coil to the dist.


another thing I learned was this,... the timing hole on a model A is @ TDC, where as the hole on a model B is @ 10 degrees advance... this I verified by pulling the #1 plug as you can see the piston when it come to exact TDC.. when I timed the motor before I just set the dist with the motor running about 2000 or so rpms where it sounded the best... it idled good and started easy... what else i learned was that the spark lever puts about 40 degrees advance when all the way down, one guy says that you shouuld set the timming to where when all the way up the level should be at the second notch, that way if you hand crank it , it can't kick back on you...I think it will work nice as a model A set up, at least you can set it at the best advance when driving.. probley run mid grade gas and get a little more power out of it???????....any way.... it's getting a 32 griille ,a header, with the idea of a pre war hot rod...... and so where down the road the fuel tank is comming out and the 32 fuel tank added to the rear with a fuel pump

I was gonna try to set the rotor to where it just touches the edge of #1 WITH THE LEVER ALL THE WAY UP... then I can adjust full timing when driving... with only 4.6 to 1 compression, doubt there would be spark knock... put pretty sure it will be easy to find the sweet spot...

thanks again for all the help.... I'm 70 and have no idea why i'm trying to learn about about model A's as I never had an interest in those motors and always took them out....LOL fords need a bow tie...

 

[monkeyswrench]

Hand cranking a Model A...or T...really about anything, sucks. What I was taught with old tractors has done me well: Pull towards you, over the top. Basically, from 10 to 2, fingers curled, thumb out. If it kicks, it just straightens your fingers, not shorten your arm. At one point I had an A starter, with a short starter button and a "crank" extended...I'd pull plugs on old motors, soak the cylinders and "run them in"...then try to get spark and see if they were viable runners.

Starting off with the rotor just touching #1 is pretty much how they say to do it. When starting it, always make sure your spark lever is up. On a stocker, starting advanced would probably just pop, but usually not kick back too bad. A fresh motor, with unknown static compression, it may kick hard enough to shear a bendix bolt in the starter. Easy enough to change, but not a bad idea to keep a spare and a spare lock washer.

You may be 70, and learning new stuff about old cars, but at least you're learning. The smartest man I ever knew, told me to keep learning at least one new thing everyday. He said it keeps your brain sharp. I met him when my boss at the time bought a stock model A roadster pickup from him...he was also an Indy car mechanical engineer

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Hand cranking a Model A...or T...really about anything, sucks. What I was taught with old tractors has done me well: Pull towards you, over the top. Basically, from 10 to 2, fingers curled, thumb out. If it kicks, it just straightens your fingers, not shorten your arm. At one point I had an A starter, with a short starter button and a "crank" extended...I'd pull plugs on old motors, soak the cylinders and "run them in"...then try to get spark and see if they were viable runners.

Starting off with the rotor just touching #1 is pretty much how they say to do it. When starting it, always make sure your spark lever is up. On a stocker, starting advanced would probably just pop, but usually not kick back too bad. A fresh motor, with unknown static compression, it may kick hard enough to shear a bendix bolt in the starter. Easy enough to change, but not a bad idea to keep a spare and a spare lock washer.

You may be 70, and learning new stuff about old cars, but at least you're learning. The smartest man I ever knew, told me to keep learning at least one new thing everyday. He said it keeps your brain sharp. I met him when my boss at the time bought a stock model A roadster pickup from him...he was also an Indy car mechanical engineer

Damn , wish you were in vegas.....

 

[monkeyswrench]

Damn , wish you were in vegas.....

wish I were anywhere but here...son to ER last night. I do better with cars than people...

 

[OLDRAAT]

What happened to him Kev?

 

[2FORCEFULL]

View attachment 1227986 wish I were anywhere but here...son to ER last night. I do better with cars than people...

sorry to hear, hope all works out well

 

[2FORCEFULL]

anyone ever split the exhaust on a B Banger motor???

 

[2FORCEFULL]

found this...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

 

[2FORCEFULL]

so here's my plan..... gonna build a split header, 2 into 1 firing order is 1243... so 1 & 2 into one.... then I'm gonna run 48'' functional lake pipes on each side... gonna start with no mufflers and see how it sounds and go from there...

 

[monkeyswrench]

What happened to him Kev?

Panic attack, confusion...enough to scare the shit out of me and mom. Lots of tests, MRI and blood work. About 18hrs at children's, just got home a bit ago. He's doing good now, but follow up stuff coming real quick...had calls as I was getting out of my car. Hopefully stuff rolls quick. Not the first time, but the worst by far...

anyone ever split the exhaust on a B Banger motor???

With a flathead, port velocity is kind of weird. Don't have any really. If you have any type of cam with overlap, getting as much out as quickly as possible will help. Run the pipes at least past your seat, or the reverberation will be bad. It's a very distinct tone, but also different from a closed car to a roadster. Since you have access to a bender, running it out back helps too. The wooden floors aren't exactly sealed the best.

 

[RichL]

Panic attack, confusion...enough to scare the shit out of me and mom. Lots of tests, MRI and blood work. About 18hrs at children's, just got home a bit ago. He's doing good now, but follow up stuff coming real quick...had calls as I was getting out of my car. Hopefully stuff rolls quick. Not the first time, but the worst by far...

Good to hear he's doing better.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

thought this was cool to have

https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Tool-W80578-Self-Powered-Timing/dp/B002KS72GA/ref=sr_1_4_sspa?crid=1HEICYK274HNQ&keywords=6+volt+timing+light&qid=1683603024&sprefix=6+volt+timing+light%2Caps%2C1227&sr=8-4-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExTkdaTVpXMzdOQjIxJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDI4MDE4M1NLSzgxSTQ1MVNHUyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTg2MzAxSlI3Uk9DN1NZNlJCJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

[2FORCEFULL]

and this... nu rex crank shaft timing degree indicator..

 

[4Waters]

and this... nu rex crank shaft timing degree indicator..

All the A's I've worked on had this. I don't know how accurate it is but it definitely close enough

 

[2FORCEFULL]

All the A's I've worked on had this. I don't know how accurate it is but it definitely close enough

the way I'm doing it is,... pull #1 plug and verify TDC... then mark the crank pully to match the indicator... then with a timing light I will see that the rotor is set a@ 5 degrees retarded... then also see how much total advance when I bring the lever down.... there's supposed to be about 40 @ full advance on the lever which is way too much timing... but will be able to see where the lever is at 28 degrees for reference.... lot to learn on these ol motors...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Panic attack, confusion...enough to scare the shit out of me and mom. Lots of tests, MRI and blood work. About 18hrs at children's, just got home a bit ago. He's doing good now, but follow up stuff coming real quick...had calls as I was getting out of my car. Hopefully stuff rolls quick. Not the first time, but the worst by far...


With a flathead, port velocity is kind of weird. Don't have any really. If you have any type of cam with overlap, getting as much out as quickly as possible will help. Run the pipes at least past your seat, or the reverberation will be bad. It's a very distinct tone, but also different from a closed car to a roadster. Since you have access to a bender, running it out back helps too. The wooden floors aren't exactly sealed the best.

hope everything works out....

as far as the model A.... It's getting a 32 grille, and a dropped headlight bar...

I'm putting dual chrome 48'' functional lake pipes ( cutting down 80'' to fit) and starting with no baffels or mufflers and then tuning from there... should sound like a harley with the 1-2....4-3 firing order...we'll see... gonna make the header 2 into 1 for cyl. 1&2 and seperate for 3&4..... so we'll see what happens... with 1&2 Y'd together I'm thinking there will good scavenge power and up the torque mid range...



also,... it will all be U bends and tig welded... probley a 4 or 5 grand system when done...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

so while the A was down, we took the 53 out to the boulder city car show.... what a nice driver,.... taking it to georges alignment this morning to get it dialed in...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

seen this.... looks all wrong to me....wonder how they figured the science here...????

1&2 don't look too bad.... 3&4 look like torque robbers????

 

[monkeyswrench]

seen this.... looks all wrong to me....wonder how they figured the science here...????

1&2 don't look too bad.... 3&4 look like torque robbers????

That's just a very typical design that was used forever. There are pics in the books "Hot Rods As They Were", and "Muroc" that show long tube headers like this being used in the late 30's. I think the concept at the time was simply let the gas escape as quickly as possible. I honestly don't know when the concepts of exhaust velocity and scavenging were realized as gains. My guess would be with indy car stuff, as they were always the front runners for things.

 

[4Waters]

seen this.... looks all wrong to me....wonder how they figured the science here...????

1&2 don't look too bad.... 3&4 look like torque robbers????

I think the way you want to build the header is better, your way is like a tri-y design

 

[2FORCEFULL]

the way the motor works is a cylinder fires evey 90 degrees, so #1 FIRES, THEN 90 DEGREES later #2 and # 4 fires 180 from # 1.... so should be easy to find some power with the exhaust

 

[monkeyswrench]

Too bad the poor exhaust has to make 2 90 degree turns before hitting the the manifold...probably tired before it gets there

 

[Shlbyntro]

the way the motor works is a cylinder fires evey 90 degrees, so #1 FIRES, THEN 90 DEGREES later #2 and # 4 fires 180 from # 1.... so should be easy to find some power with the exhaust

you sure its not 1-3-4-2?

Ive only ever seen 2 firing orders on a straight 4,
1-3-4-2
1-2-3-4

 

[monkeyswrench]

you sure its not 1-3-4-2?

Ive only ever seen 2 firing orders on a straight 4,
1-3-4-2
1-2-3-4

Here's some visual aids

It'll make more sense. Think flat plane, before it was cool

 

[Shlbyntro]

Here's some visual aids
View attachment 1228659
It'll make more sense. Think flat plane, before it was cool

ya, those are both 1-3-4-2 cranks. i mean i suppose its possible to do a 3-2 swap but that means added stress on the crank. ive never seen an engine that ran that firing order

 

[monkeyswrench]

Logic and early Fords were not quite synomynous...old Henry did some weird things

 

[Shlbyntro]

View attachment 1228666
Logic and early Fords were not quite synomynous...old Henry did some weird things

learn something new...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

you sure its not 1-3-4-2?

Ive only ever seen 2 firing orders on a straight 4,
1-3-4-2
1-2-3-4

positive it's 1243

 

[2FORCEFULL]

View attachment 1228666
Logic and early Fords were not quite synomynous...old Henry did some weird things

cool.... the way I think of model A & B motors is two seperate 2 cyls mated together...so when #1 fires and is headed down the exhaust stroke # 2 fires and helps push #1's air down the pipe, and with the cam over lap they help each other pull more air on the intake stroke....with the # 4 firing @ 180 degress....... it helps the #1&2 through the intake process.... I'm thinking they were way ahead of the scavenge because of the "UP DRAFT" carbs... so my guess is there was a fair amount power gain just changing to down draft.... i don't know of any updraft carbs after the 30's tractors maybe..... but they leave so much on the table as far as HP....


so what we have is #2 helps #1 on exhaust and 3&4 help 1&2 on intake